Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

[Meleagridis]

Yeah I looked. And honestly I'm starting to like Lancer now. We haven't really gotten much of his side yet, but I am really really hoping it goes something like this:

thought-vision:

I'm probably way off... but I'm keeping my fingers crossed. It's this kind of unexpected double standard I enjoy. No intention of double-crossing her, no more wicked schemes... just following your #1 nemesis around with active but unrealised ill will.

[FeatherDust]

I'm still a little confused. The Goddess was Trixie, right? From what I gather, she seems to be mostly Trixie with some of Twilight's smarts thrown in. It wasn't really made clear.

Sort of. The Goddess amalgam is controlled by four dominant personalities -- Trixie, Twilight, Mosaic, and Gestalt. Trixie is the dominant personality of those four (or three, since Mosaic and Gestalt are kinda one mind), through a combination of being the strongest personality (that is, biggest ego) and the first one in the IMP tank. Twilight is a major part of that quartet too, but it's Twilight with all her positive, helpful impulses suppressed (or redirected into Lacunae). It's Mad Scientist Twilight in there, with all her brilliance and obsession but lacking the moderating influences of friendship. The Goddess threw away all her guilt, all her regret, all her doubt. (Doubt in this case meaning not uncertainty, as in "I doubt your honesty", but self-doubt -- the impulse to look at what you've done and wonder if you could've done it a different way, done it better, and in the process decide to be better in the future. The Goddess removed anything that would have allowed her to grow as a person.)

But the Goddess is also all the other minds that have been absorbed by the Unity. So when the Unity broke in this last chapter, what you saw was the four primary personalities splitting from the amalgam of all the other souls, which was shaped by Trixie-Goddess's influence and thus kept going with her thoughts and intents when Trixie herself got her memories back and recoiled from it.

Some of that is covered more clearly in FoE, so if you've only read Horizons you may have had some difficulty following along.


Actually this got me thinking about Lancer. I think he's a bit like the Goddess; repressing his doubt about his past actions. I kinda want Blackjack to start quizzing him about his supposed assassination of his mother -- did he do that just because Daddy said so? Does he have any remorse for it? Any regret? ...would he like to see her again?

[Guest]

So something's been bothering me. P-21 has substance abuse issues right? Why were BJ and Glory standing by as he got drunk at the gala?

Both of them seemed to believe his largest obstacle when it came to being a dad was chemical dependency.

Also anyone else get the feeling what he did with the two of them was some kind of programmed response to being in the vicinity of a mare in heat that's left over from his time in 99? And because of his drunken state he couldn't fight it?

The question I'm asking myself is "What happens if he's drunk around scotch when she goes into heat?" the answer I come up with is he ruins her life.

[Moodyman90]

The thing about chemical dependency is that, much like most everything else, it varies from person to person. Just because somebody has a problem with taking pain medication doesn't mean they'll automatically turn into an alcoholic. I mean, they could but depending on the chemical make up of their body it might actually take a while.

As for your thoughts and worries, unless it's shown in story that P-21 goes out of his way to get shitfaced, him getting drunk at the Gala is a one time to maybe only during special events kind of deal. And if it's not, between Blackjack, Glory, and probably even Rampage, he'd get a stern talking to about getting drunk all the time and not acting as a good father figure for Scotch.
Still, I'm more worried about them needing to give him Med-X for an injury and him relapsing because of that rather than him switching over to alcohol.


Unrelated to this but to P-21 and Lancer, this is on deviantART.

[Guest]

As for ruining Scotch's life, though... I somehow don't see that as something Somber would allow to happen.

Keep in mind Scotch just got her entry ticket into the breeding que (At least that's what the cutceanara flashback heavily implied.) in the form of a buttmark. And judging by what appeared to be p-21's last days, 99's defense against fathers and daughters was they would be removed from the que by the time the daughters went in. However P-21 was known to murder the younger p's to save himself. So had they stayed in the stable I don't have many doubts this would have happened eventually, Scotch would have been just none the wiser.

Besides from what I can tell most of BJ's visions have come true. Rebirth, Priest's death and Glory being turned into a monster (Or what she sees as one.)

[Moodyman90]

Yeah you have a point there. They'd noticed if he started shooting up again but probably won't blink at a few empty bottles of anything.
 
I'm just gone on the fact that P-21 has been through the full withdrawals of his Med-X addiction. Granted I know good and well he's perfectly capable of getting re-addicted to it, as well as anything else, but my views on addiction and recovery are unfairly based off of my dad. He had been drinking from the late '70s till '96, and I know for a fact he drank nearly every day from before I was born until he quit. Then one day he decided that enough was enough and went cold turkey. Had some of the worst withdrawal symptoms doctors and other recovering alcoholics had ever seen.
 After going through that hell, he knew if he ever started drinking again he wouldn't be able to quit because he didn't want to go through that again. He's been sober for 17 years now.

Meanwhile in 2004, he quit dipping tobacco like it was nothing. Only real problem he had or let on he had was fighting the habit of just putting something in his mouth. Nearly messed his stomach up with Atomic Fireball candy, which he quit eating as well.

So yeah, I'm well aware that P-21 can relapse at any time, or pick up a new addiction, but personal experince has me saying that if he's half as serious about being a better father to Scotch he's going to be watching what he does as well. Mistakes will be made, but that just means he can do better.

[Guest]

Forgot to mention Lacunae was also no longer herself in the vision. She met Lac's body but it wasn't her piloting.

[Technowolf]

Submit to the biomass and your suffering will end.

The Dawn form is dead, insect!:

[Derpmind]

Hey! You! Do you like videogames? So do we! Join the Project Horizons Comment Crew Steam Group! We play videogames together, with friendship, and it's totally awesome. We'd love to have more join us, especially if you're a lurker. Currently we're playing Killing Floor, Left 4 Dead 2, and Team Fortress 2, but we're also trying to play more games too. We need more people to have more fun and play more games, so give it a shot!

Also, there's a PHCC Minecraft Server, which has a bunch of stuff in it. (I don't play minecraft, so I can't really say much about this server, but minecraft's fun and so is we.)

[Plasticube]

You guys, seriously, you have no idea.
The music is playing and everything.
P-21 rocks the WORLD.

[Caoimhe]

Pfft, using the Sam Jackson Shaft instead of John Singleton? Pffft

[Guest]

@Somber
Yes!
@Swicked/PlasticCube
Yes!

[HillBilly-Drew]

im honestlt waitin fer blackjack to snap. all the shit shes been through? who wouldnt have already?

[Vergil]

im honestlt waitin fer blackjack to snap. all the shit shes been through? who wouldnt have already?

 To be fair, she already did. She has both tried to kill herself and gone completely over to killing-machine mode.

[Caoimhe]

I'm waiting for hugs and more hugs.

[FoolNeim]

Late to this, but I'll nth the vote to go to Thunderhead. Moar is better.

[Caoimhe]

I vote for an eventual time where the group comes across a stage ponies renacting various events from Blackjack's events in Hoofington ala the penultimate episode of Avatar The Last Airbender ( which I finally got around to seeing all of. Omg), wherein the team sneaks in and watches while making snarky commentary on the innacuries.

[Technowolf]

@caoimhe
Maybe that can be part of the Thunderhead arc.  We'll get to see how ordinary pegasi see the surface world through the eyes of Mourning (sic) Glory and her friends Greyjack and O-21.

[Caoimhe]

That's a great idea and gives BJ more opportunities to see that her efforts are worth doing (or not) from a third party. Basically more time to mope and feel reinvigorated. 

Ugh my phone spelling is awful

[Meleagridis]

I vote for an eventual time where the group comes across a stage ponies renacting various events from Blackjack's events in Hoofington ala the penultimate episode of Avatar The Last Airbender ( which I finally got around to seeing all of. Omg), wherein the team sneaks in and watches while making snarky commentary on the innacuries.

Better be an opera.
(Reboot spoilers if anyone cares about that.)

I'm still a little confused. The Goddess was Trixie, right? From what I gather, she seems to be mostly Trixie with some of Twilight's smarts thrown in. It wasn't really made clear.

This reminds me that I had a problem with the latest chapter.

Up until recently I'd simply believed that the Goddess was Trixie after her own psychic brain surgery. Whenever the Goddess takes any sort of form, It's always Trixie. Her magic floating head is Trixie, her 'form you can understand' when BJ goes into Unity is Trixie, her speech ("The Great and Powerful Goddess!") is Trixie. Only when BJ goes into Unity do we see anybody else, and even then they are displayed in a way that makes them seem much more irrelevant or powerless. The twins are basically her tools or, at best, her right and left hooves. Twilight is shown to be an independent head but also trapped, miserable, and powerless. But just now we're told that she's actually an enthusiastic participator in Unity, the one who thought up the Grand Master Plan? It makes sense, yes, but it's not exactly what we've been seeing in the Unity visions, which always painted Twilight fairly sympathetically. I think it might be easier to swallow if it wasn't passed along just moments before Unity ceases to be. As it is, it is too hard to view the Goddess as a co-operation of the three mares and not just Trixie forcing the others into submission. This is why I couldn't get into the Goddess/Component Mares chat, because I was still thinking of the Goddess as Trixie. Since Trixie was supposed to be morally supporting her, it made the whole situation too weird. She (the Goddess) had Trixie'd too much to be seen as an amalgam.

[Vixie]

I vote for an eventual time where the group comes across a stage ponies renacting various events from Blackjack's events in Hoofington ala the penultimate episode of Avatar The Last Airbender ( which I finally got around to seeing all of. Omg), wherein the team sneaks in and watches while making snarky commentary on the innacuries.

 This is the best idea I've ever heard. I would laugh my ass off.

[Meleagridis]

For anyone who can actually keep the timeline straight:

Can anyone tell me what other things were going on in with Rarity when the diamond dogs were getting kicked out of Pleasant Valley? Was this pre-black book, what other ministry mares were alive, etc.

On slightly related notes:
Is there a decent, recommendable FoE timeline?
What chapter of PH was the sand dog information?

[TalixZero]

For anyone who can actually keep the timeline straight:

Can anyone tell me what other things were going on in with Rarity when the diamond dogs were getting kicked out of Pleasant Valley? Was this pre-black book, what other ministry mares were alive, etc.

On slightly related notes:
Is there a decent, recommendable FoE timeline?
What chapter of PH was the sand dog information?

 If you're talking about the Maripony memory, that'd be Chapter 15.  If you mean when Blackjack meets the ones near Riverside, that's Chapter 21.

[Revan Seiei]

I vote for an eventual time where the group comes across a stage ponies renacting various events from Blackjack's events in Hoofington ala the penultimate episode of Avatar The Last Airbender ( which I finally got around to seeing all of. Omg), wherein the team sneaks in and watches while making snarky commentary on the innacuries.

 Better yet, why not a few radio dramas, like THE ADVENTURES OF HERBERT "DARING" DASHWOOD from Fallout 3.

[Meleagridis]

 If you're talking about the Maripony memory, that'd be Chapter 15.  If you mean when Blackjack meets the ones near Riverside, that's Chapter 21.

You, sir, rock.

[Luminous Lead]

I'm still a little confused. The Goddess was Trixie, right? From what I gather, she seems to be mostly Trixie with some of Twilight's smarts thrown in. It wasn't really made clear.

This reminds me that I had a problem with the latest chapter.

Up until recently I'd simply believed that the Goddess was Trixie after her own psychic brain surgery. Whenever the Goddess takes any sort of form, It's always Trixie. Her magic floating head is Trixie, her 'form you can understand' when BJ goes into Unity is Trixie, her speech ("The Great and Powerful Goddess!") is Trixie. Only when BJ goes into Unity do we see anybody else, and even then they are displayed in a way that makes them seem much more irrelevant or powerless. The twins are basically her tools or, at best, her right and left hooves. Twilight is shown to be an independent head but also trapped, miserable, and powerless. But just now we're told that she's actually an enthusiastic participator in Unity, the one who thought up the Grand Master Plan? It makes sense, yes, but it's not exactly what we've been seeing in the Unity visions, which always painted Twilight fairly sympathetically. I think it might be easier to swallow if it wasn't passed along just moments before Unity ceases to be. As it is, it is too hard to view the Goddess as a co-operation of the three mares and not just Trixie forcing the others into submission. This is why I couldn't get into the Goddess/Component Mares chat, because I was still thinking of the Goddess as Trixie. Since Trixie was supposed to be morally supporting her, it made the whole situation too weird. She (the Goddess) had Trixie'd too much to be seen as an amalgam.

I think I like Red-Eye's analysis of unity (and what was wrong with it) best:

hidden for massive FOE endgame spoilers:

Trixie was the most dominant in unity, so much so that it seemed she was practically running the show herself.  The fact that Twilight was really smart and that the telepathy twins were powerful psions didn't stop Trixie's personality from dominating and steering the whole shebang.  As Red-Eye inferred, the other three had weaker souls and were simply subsumed, their talents integrated to follow Trixie's path.

I actually find this to make a good deal of sense, given their experiences since the start of the war.
Trixie had been struggling on the streets (and possibly having turned to turning tricks) before Twilight offered her a job. She knew her place was up above all others, and she was willing to do anything to make it happen.  She knew the world was against her, but she was a survivor, always pushing forward.  Her soul was bright and her determination ironclad.

Twilight had been struggling at her new job for ages, growing discouraged when she could never find the magic solution to the war.  Unlike Trixie, who expected to struggle and fight, Twilight believed that at least Equestria was on her side.  However, she found her that her friends were growing cold and distant, that her mentor gave up after making a bad decision, and that even her mind was failing her (Goldenblood kept stealing her memories).  What was once the shining protagonist of our show was slowly erroded into a cold husk of her former self.

The Gestalt Twins were employed as... secretaries? I think?  I'm not really sure what their jobs were but I can't remember them being too memorable (certainly not much of a force of personality as even Twilight). Tossed into the high stakes conflict that was the war, they did not carve their own path but worked obediently for those who recognized their talents.  These are the ones who wielded power but did not own it, submissive from the get-go.

Essentially, once she'd fully formed
Trixie was the heart (soul) and she decided what the main objective was: save everyone and become loved by everyone.
Twilight was the brains and she made the plans to meet the objective: dip everyone and (once Psalm had joined to provide heartlessness) irradiate the rest (all allies saved and integrated, all enemies dead).
Gestalt Twins were the nervous system, forwarding on the instructions: find ponies and bring them back to the pool.

All the Alicorns were the body itself fulfilling instructions passed on by the Gestalt twins.

If you want a more flavourful interpretation:  If Unity was the Empire from Star Wars: Trixie was Emperor Palpatine, Twilight was Darth Vader, Twins were the various communication officers that Vader beats on, and the Alicorns were the Imperial Stormtroopers.

[Technowolf]

@Lead
Except the Alicorns can actually hit at what they aim.

[Meleagridis]

snip:

Well, I see a problem or two there. But, on review, it doesn't have much to do with what I'm actually saying so let's just put it in this handy spoiler tag.

Spoiler:

But all this is beside the point. The problem is that this chapter seems to be supporting that the Goddess really is a full gestalt, while every other time has painted her as a Trixocracy. Especially the inner Goddess argument. All the components seem to be consoling the gestalt. This would mean that the Goddess is a gestalt, and not just the sum of her parts. Otherwise, it would have been pointless for Trixie to be participating in the argument since she would already be doing so as the Goddess.

[Kippershy]

Oh, by the way...

Spoiler:

[FeatherDust]

Okay, kipper, if that was a spoiler from the upcoming chapter, I'll be seriously pissed off at you for not saying so in the spoiler tag.

Are you stating that with authority, wild guessing, or trolling?

Wild speculation:

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