[GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

[CD]

"glitched" or not, given the way vault city treats non-citizens (let alone mutants) and their stance toward slaves, I see their enslavement of gecko instead of any kind of peaceful agreement to be pretty consistant.

So yeah, I didn't realize this was "bugged".

Maybe a better example would be the fact that there is no "good" family to back in New reno, only one that is "less evil" than the others.

 Well, the Wrights taking over peacefully is a "good" ending even if it makes New Reno rather dull. Not gaining access to the Sierra Army Depot can be a player gripe though.

Fallout 3 probably has some better examples, such as Tenpenny Tower, which forces you to be seen as a ghoul-hater for killing a pretty evil character, a mass murderer for siding with said evil ghoul to kill the arrogant but innocent inhabitants, or do the right thing and negotiate a compromise only for the evil ghoul to betray everyone. You're somebody's fool either way you do it.

[Icy Shake]

Source

Welcome to the Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion Thread!
This is the place to discuss Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons, a Fallout/MLP:FiM crossover fic by Somber. Story discussion is on the left, group therapy to the right. Please try to schedule your emotional breakdowns when they don't conflict with anyone else's.

Rules
We have just a few simple rules here.

1. Don't put down Somber.
   
2. Project Horizons is a grimdark fic which deals with adult topics, so we might discuss subjects that some readers may find uncomfortable. Be mature about it.
   
3. If Somber or a member of the editing team says to end a discussion, please do so.
   
4. Spoilers abound. If you're not current on the fic, we recommend that you catch up before you read on.
   
5. Expect random discussions that may or may not have anything to do with the story.
   
6. Have fun!
   

People You Should Know
Somber: The author of Project Horizons, creator of Blackjack, maker of awesomeness, is a small gray mare who lives in the head of a guy named David. Ignore her claims of suckage.
Bronode The-Brusher-Formerly-Known-as-Bronode-and-Currently-Known-as-Niphl and O. Hinds: Your editing team. They make awesome writing look all shiny and pretty.
Kkat: The author of the original Fallout: Equestria. Not a participant in this discussion (yet), but you should be aware of her anyway. If you haven't read FOE, why are you even here? Go! Read!

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Story Links
GoogleDocs chapter index - Links to every chapter, plus FOE and FOEPH resources, media, and story download formats.
.epub Format - Thanks to Scorch_Mechanic.
LaTeX ebook .pdf - Thanks to ThePowersGang.
Nallar's Fanfic Archive - An auto-updated collection of fics offered in a variety of formats including Kindle .mobi, .epub, and .html.

[Moodyman90]

Fallout 3 probably has some better examples, such as Tenpenny Tower, which forces you to be seen as a ghoul-hater for killing a pretty evil character, a mass murderer for siding with said evil ghoul to kill the arrogant but innocent inhabitants, or do the right thing and negotiate a compromise only for the evil ghoul to betray everyone. You're somebody's fool either way you do it.

 There is a way to cheat that one though. You negotiate the compromise and quickly kill the evil ghoul before he even gets to the tower. With him dead the rest of Tenpon.. Tenpenny lives in relative peace since the ghouls are welcomed there and the humans aren't killed.

Probably still labeled a ghoul-hater though, the games weird like that.


Kkat brushed over that one, having Steelhooves do the dirty work and everybody else keeping their mouth shut.

 There's a quest in New Vegas that may fit. You either shut off the the power of Vault 34, improving the water quality for the NCR Sharecropper Farms, or you keep it running so that the last few survivors of the Vault can continue to live. Course it's a quest you can stumble upon by pure accident just by going to Vault 34 for other reasons and there's no real rewards either way other then Reputation with the NCR. As far as I know there is no mention anywhere of the crops improving or the radiation in the water decreasing if you shut off the power, and you're given no real proof there are in fact survivors in the Vault. And even then, they're trapped underground with limited supplies in a slowly flooding tomb of metal and stone with the only part you have access to is full of mindless ghouls. And what's left in the armory the Boomers left behind.

[O. Hinds]

and you're given no real proof there are in fact survivors in the Vault

Actually, you can meet them.
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Vault_34_dweller_%28human%29

[Moodyman90]

Heh, didn't know that. Mainly because I rarely go there for anything. Doing some more digging on the wiki apparently you can get a food sanitizer from them if you free them and talk to them.

And apparently if you end the quest in favor of the Sharecroppers they give up anyways because the NCR are asking for too much production with not enough water.

So, the quest gives you either 100 XP and NCR rep, or 150 XP and a chance to get an item that only works for Junk Food and Bubblegum so other then novelty and rarity it's next to pointless to have. Oh, and warm fuzzys because you saved up to four people that adds NPCs.

[Evilgidgit]

The Google Doc has been updated with the title for the next chapter: Reunion.

[CD]

Heh, didn't know that. Mainly because I rarely go there for anything. Doing some more digging on the wiki apparently you can get a food sanitizer from them if you free them and talk to them.

And apparently if you end the quest in favor of the Sharecroppers they give up anyways because the NCR are asking for too much production with not enough water.

So, the quest gives you either 100 XP and NCR rep, or 150 XP and a chance to get an item that only works for Junk Food and Bubblegum so other then novelty and rarity it's next to pointless to have. Oh, and warm fuzzys because you saved up to four people that adds NPCs.

 The NCR farmers can be made to stay if you solve The White Wash I think. That's where you find out the cause of their water shortage. Personally, I headcanonned it for the independence route that locals or squatters eventually take over the sharecropper farms even if you don't get the farmers their water (not doing so helps another community grow food that is much less well-off than NCR civilians), and I always choose to shut down the 34 reactor so the groundwater and soil will not be polluted, as the food that can be grown in the future will save more than four NPCs. The needs of the many and all that.

[HillBilly-Drew]

i just wanna say 2 things.
1. im new here!!
2. i just want to take a moment and say ur stuff is amzing ur a damn genius!! somber!!! everythin u do is amazin!!! i read the new chapter and loved it!! ur an amzing author and writer. keep doin wat ur doin cuz ur stuff is amzing!!!

[SilentCarto]

Littlepip didn't pick the right solution. Murdering everyone in Arbu was similarly a bad choice, as was everyone in that one brotherhood outpost. She relies on her own impossible power to end her problems by force, so completely decimating her enemies was the only solution in her mind. It wasn't the right choice, and I don't think it should ever be seen as it.

Bucklyn Cross was a mistake she owned, but slaughtering Arbu was absolutely just. We're not talking about a case of them shooting down brigands, then saying, "Oh well, no sense in letting that go to waste." They were deliberately seeking out ponies to murder so they could sell them as food to others, in preference to other food sources. Arbu was a raider tribe, pure and simple -- just one with a prettier face than most. If it were our world, that would be something to let the authorities handle, certainly. But who's Littlepip supposed to go to for justice? There's really no recourse available beyond the muzzle of a gun, whether that gun belongs to her or someone else. And she's never been one to defer responsibility to others.

she just can't choose the "best" course of action... the one that doesn't require so much death and the sacrifice of the rest of her life due to an unwillingness to just turn over the reigns occasionally or... anything.

I'll completely agree that there's really no reason she's required to be the one to stay in the SPP pod for all time. I really expected them to work out some kind of time-share process, and the justification for not doing so was slim to nonexistant.

Kkat brushed over that one, having Steelhooves do the dirty work and everybody else keeping their mouth shut.

That IS one of the things I love about FOE over the games -- the companions have their own motivations and goals, and they contribute far more than they do in the game. Need to barter? Velvet will do it. But Velvet doesn't necessarily help every time Pip has to make a speech check -- whether she's absent or Pip just has to handle it herself. And, yes, they occasionally run off and do something Littlepip might not like, because they think it's right and know she wouldn't approve. And I like that.

There's a quest in New Vegas that may fit. You either shut off the the power of Vault 34, improving the water quality for the NCR Sharecropper Farms, or you keep it running so that the last few survivors of the Vault can continue to live.

Yeah, I always hated that quest because it doesn't make sense that you couldn't 1) start a terminal chat with them and ask them to transfer control back to you after they open the door, or 2) go back in wherever they came out of and transfer control back to the other side yourself.

[tylertoon2]

i just wanna say 2 things.
1. im new here!!
2. i just want to take a moment and say ur stuff is amzing  ur a damn genius!! somber!!! everythin u do is amazin!!! i read the new chapter and loved it!! ur an amzing author and writer. keep doin wat ur doin cuz ur stuff is amzing!!!

 Great to see you! Welcome and hope you stick around!

[Meleagridis]

Bucklyn Cross was a mistake she owned, but slaughtering Arbu was absolutely just. We're not talking about a case of them shooting down brigands, then saying, "Oh well, no sense in letting that go to waste." They were deliberately seeking out ponies to murder so they could sell them as food to others, in preference to other food sources. Arbu was a raider tribe, pure and simple -- just one with a prettier face than most. If it were our world, that would be something to let the authorities handle, certainly. But who's Littlepip supposed to go to for justice? There's really no recourse available beyond the muzzle of a gun, whether that gun belongs to her or someone else. And she's never been one to defer responsibility to others.

As far as we know. If I remember right, one of Pip's self-berating realizations afterwards was that she killed everybody but the familiar children with no regard for further information. No double-checking, no hesitation. No time for someone to even show shock, or explain that they were never a part of ritual murder.

Think of what Blackjack (new Blackjack) might have made of the situation. She'd try to look for the good before razing everything to the ground... I think. Truth be told, I can't actually remember how Littlepip found out about Arbu's secret.

Hey hey hey- do you think this might be Blackjack's virtue? Finding virtue in others?

[Caoimhe]

she just can't choose the "best" course of action... the one that doesn't require so much death and the sacrifice of the rest of her life due to an unwillingness to just turn over the reigns occasionally or... anything.

I'll completely agree that there's really no reason she's required to be the one to stay in the SPP pod for all time. I really expected them to work out some kind of time-share process, and the justification for not doing so was slim to nonexistant.

 IIRC, the whole point of the epilogue was to show that Pippers can move about and ponies can come in and out (although painfully). It was kind of a copout but the comments I read before the epilogue was written seem to indicate folks were pretty mad about the whole thing since it was a pretty downtrodden (if bittersweet) ending. I assume this is another element borrowed from Fallout (Fallout 3 if I remember reading about). Again, that probably could have been better used as a reference. 

I mean it's KKat's story and all but with all the options available surely something else could have been done? Pip is supposed to be pretty clever and resourceful. Diving into the SPP against everyone else's suggestions and abandoning her girlfriend is actually more of a Blackjack thing to do.

 

Re: Arbu. I haven't got there yet in my reread but it seemed at the time like a psychotic break and I was really hoping it was a psychological element KKat was going for in an attempt to add more depth and realism to the predicament but alas, no. I think that's why I prefer PH so much more, it addresses these sorts of things in this world up front in a mature way. Remember: in the second chapter Pip runs into flayed corpses, animal heads on pikes, dead foals, and all this other LOOK HOW DARK THIS IS EVERYONE stuff and barely bats an eye, but Arbu does her in. Come onnnnnn.

[Caoimhe]

Hey hey hey- do you think this might be Blackjack's virtue? Finding virtue in others?

 Sex, Drugs and chamber music.

[ARoundCorner]

I second sex, drugs and chamber music.

 Imagine dat cutie mark.

[Derpmind]

Hey hey hey- do you think this might be Blackjack's virtue? Finding virtue in others?

Imagine dat cutie mark.

Well that was quick. Virtue to Flank, two steps removed.  

Maybe Blackjack's 'Virtue' with a capital V isn't as much something BJ embodies as it is something she inspires in others. BJ wants to heal corruption, (totally not the best word to use here, but w/e,) and the way to do that is to help ponies fix themselves so they can help fix others and other things. Maybe that's the difference between her group and the old Hoofington six: The old group went around crushing all the bad, but BJ's group keeps trying to create new harmony.

[Meleagridis]

Maybe Blackjack's 'Virtue' with a capital V isn't as much something BJ embodies as it is something she inspires in others. BJ wants to heal corruption, (totally not the best word to use here, but w/e,) and the way to do that is to help ponies fix themselves so they can help fix others and other things. Maybe that's the difference between her group and the old Hoofington six: The old group went around crushing all the bad, but BJ's group keeps trying to create new harmony.

Or at least BJ is. Her companions, P-21 and Rampage particularly, would happily level most of what Blackjack surgically examines for goodness. But instead they bide their time and realize some important mistakes they would have made otherwise. Her inspiration has led to good deeds all over the most miserable chunk of desperation and decay in the modern wasteland.

Yeah, I'll call it. BJ's virtue is bringing out good in others. Double or nothing, final answer, hit me!

[tylertoon2]

Or at least BJ is. Her companions, P-21 and Rampage particularly, would happily level most of what Blackjack surgically examines for goodness. But instead they bide their time and realize some important mistakes they would have made otherwise.

I don't think that's quite right.
P-21, more or less, is used to taking orders. He occassionally rebels, but he sees Blackjack as his master, basically. He wouldn't use those words but the combination of how he grew up, Blackjack saving his life and just plain habit, at this point, has him willing to do anything she says. Brave any danger, stay his hooves from the like of Sanguine, anything.
I've come to think the reason he and Scotch are still with Blackjack, despite his finding no value in the quest yet very dedicated to keeping Scotch safe, is because he figures Blackjack wants him to. If he had a shred of rebellion in him he'd of settled in Chapel with Scotch. Keeping her safe should take priority in his life, but he ignores that to serve Blackjack.

Rampage, though... she's just broken. She sees herself as quite the potential monster... for good reason. See: the angel and that "dark period" she described as happening back when she decided not to sleep anymore (in which, I suppose, she had more than her share of Being). She doesn't trust herself, so she idolizes Blackjack, follows her and does what she says. Rampage is more comfortable with someone there that can stop her, hopefully, if she gets out of control.

They don't really think Blackjack knows best. They follow her because they both feel they need someone else in control of their lives and see Blackjack as the right mare to fill that role.
And while I'm not saying they would outright abandon her if someone "better" for that role came along... they very well could if Blackjack ordered them to.

 I am really wondering how he will take the events of the last chapter.
It's going to be interesting how it all play out. And his reaction is going to be very indicative in the development of his character.

[Meleagridis]

They don't really think Blackjack knows best. They follow her because they both feel they need someone else in control of their lives and see Blackjack as the right mare to fill that role.
And while I'm not saying they would outright abandon her if someone "better" for that role came along... they very well could if Blackjack ordered them to.

While a much more cynical view, it still doesn't affect the possibility that Blackjack has made them better. The only way to know for sure is to see how they will react in her absence. I think it's a safe bet to say that P-21 is more gooder as a direct result of Blackjack's influence, in large part due to the fact that Blackjack A) saved his daughter's life and B) helped encourage P-21 to admit to having a daughter.

Rampage, on the other end, is harder to tell. She has very clearly been idolizing Blackjack for her unbelievably unshakable moral fiber. But Rampage has also seen that her shining, virtuous delusion was far from the truth and Blackjack is in fact thoroughly flawed. She hasn't left, though-- well, not entirely true. But she came back. We could only know for certain if we saw what Rampage decides to to A.B. (after Blackjack)

Let's say BJ gets so connected to Unity that she up and dies or something. What would Rampage do if she didn't have a tether like BJ to keep her afloat? Go back to a full time Reaper? Get nastier? Would she try and step up and keep up with the good fight? Or maybe even settle somewhat, defend a settlement or something for a little while where someone can pick apart her brain and finish the work Blackjack started? Would it be the same or would it be something better?

Yeah, they're probably following Blackjack because they're followers. But it seems to me that they've become better in large part due to her influence.

[Guest]

Not sure if this has been brought up by anybody else but I've been thinking about what's going to happen to Lacunea in the coming chapters, more specifically if she dies.

I was thinking what if BJ's brain tumor (Or however that physical mutation manifested itself, at least I remember her physically mutating in some way after Lac dumped those memories into her. If I'm wrong here blame it on my own barely functioning memory.) allows part of Lac's consciousness to survive? Not a big part, just enough to pull the trigger when BJ otherwise wouldn't. Like she did with that seahorse pony who's name I can't remember at the moment.

[Meleagridis]

Not sure if this has been brought up by anybody else but I've been thinking about what's going to happen to Lacunea in the coming chapters, more specifically if she dies.

I was thinking what if BJ's brain tumor (Or however that physical mutation manifested itself, at least I remember her physically mutating in some way after Lac dumped those memories into her. If I'm wrong here blame it on my own barely functioning memory.) allows part of Lac's consciousness to survive? Not a big part, just enough to pull the trigger when BJ otherwise wouldn't. Like she did with that seahorse pony who's name I can't remember at the moment.

...What about vice versa? After all, only one of them can fly fast enough to clear ground zero.

[Guest]

Hmm... That's interesting. She does have this whole emerging magical prowess thing going on lately, and we would have a flesh and blood BJ again. Wonder if Lac can put up with BJ as a more permanent tenant in her mind instead of the occasional visitor.

[Caoimhe]

Lacunae x Dealer gives new meaning to the word "mindfuck."

[Harmony Ltd.]

*badum-tish*

[Meleagridis]

Rover would be positively livid

Now I want this to happen just for that scene.

[Vergil]

Lacunae x Dealer gives new meaning to the word "mindfuck."

 okay this needs to happen now

[Meleagridis]

“You and I have some unfinished business. My magic’s gotten better since I was here last. And I’m going to prove it! Me and you. A magic duel. Winner stays, loser leaves Ponyville forever!”

Finally went over to see the quote on top the next chapter. If it is any indication, there's going to be a good deal of inter-Goddess turmoil coming about soon.

[SilentCarto]

As far as we know. If I remember right, one of Pip's self-berating realizations afterwards was that she killed everybody but the familiar children with no regard for further information. No double-checking, no hesitation. No time for someone to even show shock, or explain that they were never a part of ritual murder.

The Arbu brand declared such quite clearly. "It’s an Arbu mark. We get it after we eat the heart of our first kill." And, as Pip discovers later, that means a pony kill. The brand is a public declaration that its wearer is a murderer.

Think of what Blackjack (new Blackjack) might have made of the situation. She'd try to look for the good before razing everything to the ground... I think. Truth be told, I can't actually remember how Littlepip found out about Arbu's secret.

The old, crazy stallion told her to look in the basement, where she found pony corpses in varying states of butchery, including the skull of the preacher who allegedly 'passed through' a few years back.

[SilentCarto]

Hey hey hey- do you think this might be Blackjack's virtue? Finding virtue in others?

I scribbled down a DJ-Pon3 speech on that subject a while back, actually...

Helloooooo, Equestria!:

[HillBilly-Drew]

ok random but, i have a feelin that somehow the dealer will be the hero... any yall got that same feelin?

[O. Hinds]

58 online!

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