[GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

[SilentCarto]

Source

Welcome to the Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion Thread!
This is the place to discuss Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons, a Fallout/MLP:FiM crossover fic by Somber. Story discussion is on the left, group therapy to the right. Please try to schedule your emotional breakdowns when they don't conflict with anyone else's.

Rules
We have just a few simple rules here.

1. Don't put down Somber.
   
2. Project Horizons is a grimdark fic which deals with adult topics, so we might discuss subjects that some readers may find uncomfortable. Be mature about it.
   
3. If Somber or a member of the editing team says to end a discussion, please do so.
   
4. Spoilers abound. If you're not current on the fic, we recommend that you catch up before you read on.
   
5. Expect random discussions that may or may not have anything to do with the story.
   
6. Have fun!

People You Should Know
Somber: The author of Project Horizons, creator of Blackjack, maker of awesomeness, is a small gray mare who lives in the head of a guy named David. Ignore her claims of suckage.
Bronode and O. Hinds: Your editing team. They make awesome writing look all shiny and pretty.
Kkat: The author of the original Fallout: Equestria. Not a participant in this discussion (yet), but you should be aware of her anyway. If you haven't read FOE, why are you even here? Go! Read!

Somber's Tip Jar
Thank-yous of the monetary variety may be made through PayPal. Simply click on Send Money, send it to David13ushey@gmail.com and mark it as a personal gift.

Story Links
GoogleDocs chapter index - Links to every chapter, plus FOE and FOEPH resources, media, and story download formats.
.epub Format - Thanks to Scorch_Mechanic.
LaTeX ebook .pdf - Thanks to ThePowersGang.
Nallar's Fanfic Archive - An auto-updated collection of fics offered in a variety of formats including Kindle .mobi, .epub, and .html.

[Guest]

MINE!

Lol, you've already got it! =P

[Icy Shake]

Missed the above.

[Guest]

How about a wizard private eye riding a polka-powered zombie T-Rex to stop a body-swapping necromancer from ascending to godhood on Halloween?

This awesome:

Yay Dresden!

Of course, I think that's the first book, right? And I think I read once that the author wrote that book as a kind of parody of the fantasy genre or something... crafting that scene to intentionally be a rediculous sort of cool XD

Aw, no, that's the... seventh book, according to a Wiki. They do tend towards the ridiculous, mind you, though they often seem less so while you're reading them. (I know that Pratchett's first book was a parody of fantasy, while the later ones moved more into satire of other things, like society and culture - not sure about the Dresden files, though I could believe it)

[Icy Shake]

Are you referring to the series of tweets with S1 development trivia? As I recall, she only said Twilight would replace Celestia, though I suppose the transformation is a reasonable extrapolation. More to the point, though, I need to stress that, for me at least, the problem isn't alicorn Twilight: it's the fact that the execution, so far, was highly botched from my perspective. So saying that external pressures resulted in it being a single episode amount to the same charge, as far as I'm concerned.

[SilentCarto]

Yay Dresden!

Of course, I think that's the first book, right? And I think I read once that the author wrote that book as a kind of parody of the fantasy genre or something... crafting that scene to intentionally be a rediculous sort of cool XD

Dead Beat is book seven, and I'm sure he was entirely cognizant of how awesomely ridiculous it was. It wasn't that particular book that was a parody, though. He said in an interview, "When I finally got tired of arguing with [the teacher of my writing course] and decided to write a novel as if I was some kind of formulaic, genre writing drone, just to prove to her how awful it would be, I wrote the first book of the Dresden Files."

You might be thinking of his Codex Alera, though. At a Delray Writer's Workshop, Jim Butcher asserted that no concept was too stupid and overused to make a good book. Another attendee disagreed, and they made a bet: the challenger would give him two lame, overused ideas, and he would try to write a good book with them. The ideas were "Pokemon and the Roman Lost Legion". (And damn if he didn't win the bet!)

[Sindri]

Let's be clear about this -- Hasbro had little to do with the decision to alicornicate Twilight. That was always Lauren Faust's plan for Twi's ultimate fate (along with succeeding(!) Celestia), and everything the writers have said indicates that they were not in any way dragged unwillingly into this. The only thing that didn't come from within Studio B was cramming the whole thing into one episode.

If I may theorize, this gives them a perfect excuse to go beyond Ponyville and do the adventure stories Lauren always wanted, but had been nixed in favor of 100% "slice of life" stories by Hasbro from the beginning. They're more or less run though all the slice of life stories they can tell, and now they have reason to explore the wider world.

...
[citation needed]
In the original draft of the Royal Wedding, the last episode Faust worked on, Cadence was a unicorn. She was changed to sell more toys somewhere between script writing and animation.
The writers have said that they did not plan for the ascension at the end of this season; the earlier parts with the cutie mark swapping were intended to fill the full episode and it was changed at the last minute (which is why the first 2/3 of the episode were so choppy and rushed).

To be clear, I wouldn't have a problem with alicornication if it were properly planned and thought out and executed in a way that worked. And if Faust had done so, I have no doubt it would be. But I'm pretty sure she didn't actually plan anything like that. And between the botched coronation at the end of S3 and Cadence, there's no way I can see for it to make sense outside of crack theories like swicked's. In fact there's a strong theory that the reason Faust left was because of the incoming executive meddling, though evidence is scarce because of Hasbro's mighty lawyers.

And I still have high hopes for the quality of S4, and maybe even an explanation that almost makes sense for all this shit, but there's no chance that what's happening now was actually Faust's artistic vision all along. She's been gone for two years and been straight up contradicted more than once.

[O. Hinds]

@SilentCarto:
Hm... Good points. On the annihilation thing, I wonder what the range of the EoS is without boosting... it might be enough to just abandon the area and have the power systems run by robots.
...Unnnnless Cognitum was corrupted and/or created directly, which is one of the things that I don't know. Hm. Okay, not enough information.

The Tokomare activation probably gives us a good idea of its full capabilities. It was powerful enough to instantly liquify healthy pre-war ponies and to be "heard" clearly at Hoss's farm.

Ah, probably not a problem, then. Sure, ponies might be a bit upset about having to leave their city… but I bet that they'd become a lot less upset when told what they've been living atop.

Let's just say the more ridiculous additions Hasbro inserts into the universe, the more ridiculous conclusions I'm willing to jump to to justify stuff that doesn't make sense no matter how you slice it :P

Let's be clear about this -- Hasbro had little to do with the decision to alicornicate Twilight. That was always Lauren Faust's plan for Twi's ultimate fate (along with succeeding(!) Celestia), and everything the writers have said indicates that they were not in any way dragged unwillingly into this. The only thing that didn't come from within Studio B was cramming the whole thing into one episode.

If I may theorize, this gives them a perfect excuse to go beyond Ponyville and do the adventure stories Lauren always wanted, but had been nixed in favor of 100% "slice of life" stories by Hasbro from the beginning. They're more or less run though all the slice of life stories they can tell, and now they have reason to explore the wider world.

Ah… And if Hasbro complains, they can say that they're just doing what Hasbro forced them into! Though I don't trust Hasbro enough to be confident that that would definitely work and not just lead to increasing stupidity.

Oh, and you need to remove Snipehamster from the list of editors in the header post.

[Meleagridis]

polka-powered zombie T-Rex

The only thing that gets me here is the 'polka-powered' bit. Uh... explanation? Or is it basically... well... that?

Does anyone else here tend to get really, really angry at Hasbro for doing their best to ruin possibly one of the best modern arguments for capitalism?

For a moment I thought you were talking about the events between What My Butt-Mark is Telling Me and A True, True Friend.

The writers have said that they did not plan for the ascension at the end of this season; the earlier parts with the cutie mark swapping were intended to fill the full episode and it was changed at the last minute (which is why the first 2/3 of the episode were so choppy and rushed).

Graaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaterriblelessonforlittlekidsgraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.
Man that bugged me.

[Exodus Hero]

Anyone have rough sketch or anything of the like for Hoofington? Thinking about making a small map for the city, nothing fancy but just something to wrap my brain around when I don't remember/recognize a place.

Mine is here, though I haven't updated it in some time. The locations of places that aren't marked in red are straight from the horse's mouth, though.

Not so much: I think that there's a formula that has a pretty high success rate for making good derivative shows.
1. Find creators who love the source material.
2. Tell them to make the show they always wanted to.
3. STFU and get out of the way (except to tell them to follow standards and practices).

Thanks a lot. :D

[SilentCarto]

This whole thing about Twilicorn is straying into "off-topic" territory, so I'm going to explain what I meant in a spoiler tag.

Faust, Twilicorn, and Things That Never Were:

The only thing that gets me here is the 'polka-powered' bit. Uh... explanation? Or is it basically... well... that?

Well, you know how zombies work slightly differently in every property? In short, zombies in Dresden Files need a constant beat of some kind to "fool" them into thinking they're still alive. It's rather more complex and metaphysical than that, but the point is that they need a someone hitting a drum, or playing a boombox, or tapping their foot, or something or the magic fades and they turn back into regular old corpses. Harry's solution was to enlist the help of a polka-obsessed friend of his, who used a one-man band rig to provide the drumbeat that kept the dinosaur going.

...I think I actually read the book, too. He was going up against a necromancer that was using thousand-year-old corpses, which were naturally stronger due to their age, kinda like with the home thing above. The older it is, the more power it can have through necromancy. So he went to a natural history museum and rose up a hundred million year-old dinosaur to beat them all up.

Pretty much. The older the corpse, the more power it can hold, but it also requires a proportionately larger chunk of power to animate at all. And using an animal corpse technically dodges the laws against necromancy.

Ah, probably not a problem, then. Sure, ponies might be a bit upset about having to leave their city… but I bet that they'd become a lot less upset when told what they've been living atop.

On the other hoof, that's not taking into account any movement of E-rings that may have happened in the intervening years, nor the shield over the Core itself. That might have held back the worst of the Enervation from spilling out over the general area. I don't think normal shields have any effect on Enervation or Lac could get some relief by tossing up a barrier, but Flash's self-powering shield -- or the version developed specifically to contain the Tokomare -- might be different.

Oh, and you need to remove Snipehamster from the list of editors in the header post.

Thanks as always for the editing, I'll change th-- woah. It's like I'm in Bizarro World all the sudden...

[Somber]

While I was being a failwriter on 55, I do have a niggling idea for
magic for my own setting. It boils down to 'Magic is infinite
possibility.' The first corollary to this rule is 'Infinite possibility
is infinitely awesome, dangerous, addictive, and fatal.'

It
works like this. We live in an finite world. In our world, we have
rules for what is possible and what is impossible. A potato left on a
counter might bud, may dry out, will probably rot, but won't turn into
solid gold. Surrounding our finite world is the infinite world, where
more and more things are possible. There is a barrier separating the
two. Mages (wisards, visionaries, sorcerers, etc) are individuals who
can intentionally pull a little bit of that infinite possibility into
our finite world and make stuff happen. Like turning a soda into
nitroglycerin.

So why don't mages simply make paradise on earth?
They did. Hundreds of thousands of years ago, they punched a tiny hole
in that barrier and used it to create a world of billions. A planet
and an age of wonders. Then someone got the bright idea that if they
could do all this with just a little hole, imagine what they could do
with a great big one! It worked.

Today we call it the Toba
Supereruption, which was only a small part of the devastation that
occurred in the infinitesimal moment when infinite and finite worlds
touched. Other notable side effects were the earth being knocked eight
degrees further off its axis and the Tycho crater on the moon. Worse,
it cracked the barrier between universes permanently, and the resulting
instability wiped out humanity's colonies on the moon, Venus, and Mars.
Today, the greatest remnants of this civilization are explained through
geological means and any suggestion of a human super civilization a
hundred thousand years ago is laughed off as nonsense. Though the idea
has persisted in the form of the story of Atlantis.

Perhaps most
tragic of all was the cracking of the barrier roused the finite world's
autoimmune system. Now, when mages bring in possibility, it causes an
allergic reaction in reality. That rock you transmuted to gold attracts
the attention of the FBI, who will find a file that it was stolen
somewhere. The bigger the effect, the bigger the reaction. It's
hypothesized that Hiroshima was targeted because it was the heart of a
cabal of japanese mystics attempting to use sorcery to ward off an
invasion of japan. Sometimes the universe will manifest agents to come
down and personally stop a mage... and kill everything that gets in its
way.

So why do magic at all? Because it's so damned tempting.
Someone pisses you off? Curse them with syphilis. Need to buy a meal?
Turn a one dollar bill into a twenty. Mages have adopted rituals,
spells, and other means to make possibility accessible without getting
curb stomped by the universe. But there's always the temptation to draw
a little more power. To dare to alter a little more than before. And
inevitably, eventually, the universe turns its baleful eye to the mage
and tries to blot them out.

There are magical fraternities. The
transhumanists argue that they're not doing magic at all! They're doing
research, funding technologies that will make life better. Arguably,
they're the most successful, but the universe has many ways of warping
their greatest achievements. the internet? Used for porn. Atomic
theory? Used for nukes. Evolution? Debunked by fundamentalists.
Revolutionary cancer treatments? Denied by Insurers. Every time they
make any progress, things get dragged back.

The Metatronics, or
'Gandalfs' as they're frequently referred as, are more your arch-typical
wisards trying to gather lore and develop new spells that will let them
thrive. They scour the world for missing artifacts of the lost age,
claiming to want to safe guard them. Of course, every now and then you
get one that wants to try to repeat what the lost age attempted... 'only
do it right this time.'

The Pandeists believe in God... all of
them. They wonder if there was a design in the finite world and a will
behind the destruction of the lost age. They look into the infinite
world for heaven and hell of all religions. There are certainly
infinitely powerful beings in the infinite world; things that should
classify as a diety, but they search for THE deity. Of course, one
wonders what they'll do if they ever find it.

Crafters range from
traditional Hedgewitches to talented midwifes to your Wicca
sorceresses. While many consider them a bit of a joke, one has to
observe that they get stomped on by the universe least.

Shamans,
while not a unified group, are some of the oldest and arguibly the first
mages. They are most familiar with the spirits and things that lurk in
the infinite world and occasionally try to slip in. Most shamans today
are just trying to keep their cultures from going extinct. Some of
them accept help from the other side to do so... something the universe
dislikes VERY much.

Demolitionists rage from urban punks to
serial killers to terrorists to the truly mad. Their goal is simple...
tear down the established order and all the rules becoming meaningless.
Even the laws of the universe are pointless if broken frequently
enough. These anarchists want to see all society torn down and burned
to ashes just to see what grows in their place. Then they'll tear that
down too.

The Nhilists are the scariest of the lot. They see the
world as pointlessly decayed and want to end it... all of it. They
believe that when the barrier is breached for good, this universe will
decay into infinity once again and a new finite universe would b
created. And when it is, they'll be there from the start and shape it
to how it should be.

Sorry, guess I rambled there. Apologies.

[OneMoreDaySK]

Somber Snip:

That's quite an interesting idea on the way magic works. Question though, would the universe get as mad if you used telekinesis to knit muscle and bone together rather than an all out heal spell?

[Somber]

It's doing the same thing either way. It's more how blatant the magic is. If you got shot and were quick, you might be able to minimize the damage and say 'got lucky, it was just a flesh wound'. If your magical technique involves danging a crystal over a pumping wound while channeling earth mana to close the injury, then you might get a nasty visit by the police the next day.

Mages tend to develop things called tells the longer and more magic they do. It's still magic, but it might have a glow or a strange sound or ominous noises. It's the universe simultaneously giving you a warning and marking you for others. A person that heals through prayer for years starts to find their hands glow when they do the same magic. Then they might exude heavenly music. Then the parishioners get so worked up that they nail him to a cross to die for their sins.

[Guest]

@Sombermagic
Ooh, ooh, that's sort of like the Mage system of paradoxes! Except, IIRC, it's only if non-mages witness it that you get smited by the universe. Or if your DM thinks you're abusing the rules too much. =P Cool concept, for sure!

[OneMoreDaySK]

Re: SomberMagic
I was just thinking on how to minimize the amount of magic used to do the same things. Pretty much I'm trying to see how Blackjack can utilize her spell list to the optimal capacity. In other words, kind of opposite of what Twilight's been doing magic; instead of learning a spell a day and almost never using it again, Blackjack would learn to use a singular spell in order to do a great number of other things, like her TK bullet. It would also be opposite of Littlepip, in which instead of just using one spell overwhelmingly like when she heavy lifts objects or throws hellhounds into the air, Blackjack uses telekinesis to hold or pull grenade pins on others.

[O. Hinds]

On the other hoof, that's not taking into account any movement of E-rings that may have happened in the intervening years, nor the shield over the Core itself. That might have held back the worst of the Enervation from spilling out over the general area. I don't think normal shields have any effect on Enervation or Lac could get some relief by tossing up a barrier, but Flash's self-powering shield -- or the version developed specifically to contain the Tokomare -- might be different.

…I'm just going to go with "insufficient data", I think.

Thanks as always for the editing, I'll change th-- woah. It's like I'm in Bizarro World all the sudden...

:)

@Somber:
Oh yes, please do apologize for subjecting us to the torture of reading more of your fascinating ideas. That is a completely necessary apology to make. :)
(Though, of course, a potato left on the counter might actually turn into solid gold; it's just really, really unlikely.)

[Derpmind]

"When I finally got tired of arguing with [the teacher of my writing course] and decided to write a novel as if I was some kind of formulaic, genre writing drone, just to prove to her how awful it would be, I wrote the first book of the Dresden Files."

Funny thing is, I read the first book of the series and basically though it as exactly that: a formulaic book that was obviously setting itself up for a series. I've been hearing about the Dresden Files for years, though I've never looked into it or watched the TV series, so when I visited the bookstore (instead of the library for once) I picked it up. And while there was good (and funny) stuff in there overall it didn't interest me. I suspect that I might have missed something.

Something:

(Though, of course, a potato left on the counter might actually turn into solid gold; it's just really, really unlikely.)

You are wrong! On the Internet! BY THE POWER OF THE INTERNET, I SUMMON A COUNTERARGUMENT!

[Guest]

Dresden!

Aye, from what I've heard, the books don't get worthwhile until 3 or 4 or so. TBH, I didn't mind the first two; they weren't great, and they weren't as fun as later ones by any stretch of the imagination, but considering how short they were and the fact that I'd heard good things about the series, I stuck with it. Haven't regretted that decision. Not a fan of the comics, personally, or the TV show.

[O. Hinds]

(Though, of course, a potato left on the counter might actually turn into solid gold; it's just really, really unlikely.)

You are wrong! On the Internet! BY THE POWER OF THE INTERNET, I SUMMON A COUNTERARGUMENT!

Ah, my sincere apologies! We have not yet gotten to Dirac. And I got 46% on the first Quantum test anyway, so... good thing that I'm not planning to make a career of it.
That said, reading your linked counterargument, it looks as if that only applies if the particles would have to travel faster than light; would spontaneous transmutation still be possible if the extra nucleons were sourced from nearby?

[Somber]

I read the Dresden series for a while, but for some reason I also lost interest. I think it's because it feels like Harry is always going to pull some something out of his bum and win in the end. It's sort of like stories with Drizzt. He's not going to die. Period. Or if he does, it's not going to be a real death. Because if he did die then there would be an end to the series. And often, it doesn't feel like he pays for his power. I mean, I love the Character of John Constantine. Even when he wins, he's still fucked.

In other news, I found out I am going to be unemployed in June. Yay...

[Guest]

@Dresden Problems
This... changes, or looks very much to be changing, in the most recent works. Not to spoil anything, but there's some stuff that goes to hell via handbasket. Mind you, I wish it had done so faster, since it kinda feels like the "endgame incoming" elements are coming fast and furious, but yeah. The research thing keeps being a matter of asking the right person the right questions, though, generally speaking.

@Somber
Geez, that's awful. At least you'll have some good history and all to look for a new one, but the fact that you have to sucks.

[WavemasterRyx]

In other news, I found out I am going to be unemployed in June. Yay...

I'm very sorry to hear that, Somber... I really do hope you'll be okay.
*gives you a gentle hug*

[Exodus Hero]

I read the Dresden series for a while, but for some reason I also lost interest. I think it's because it feels like Harry is always going to pull some something out of his bum and win in the end. It's sort of like stories with Drizzt. He's not going to die. Period. Or if he does, it's not going to be a real death. Because if he did die then there would be an end to the series. And often, it doesn't feel like he pays for his power. I mean, I love the Character of John Constantine. Even when he wins, he's still fucked.

In other news, I found out I am going to be unemployed in June. Yay...

First, sorry to hear your loss, hope you can find a job soon. Second, if you enjoy uncertainty of what will happen with characters, the Walking Dead (comic not tv show) is a good bet to see some interesting character development and the like.

[O. Hinds]

@Swicked:
Aye, that sounds interesting, though I'm afraid that I don't have any good ideas for image sourcing.
…Though, remember, you can probably look for mares with the correct color scheme too. :)

@Somber:
Oh dear. Budget cuts?

[Vergil]

Damn you budget cuuuuuuuuuuts!

[Admiral Stoic Rum]

oh my it's like being a writer for a television show with you somber. On to the next job then.

also the magic world concept sounds interesting. was it a roleplay?

[SilentCarto]

Funny thing is, I read the first book of the series and basically though it as exactly that: a formulaic book that was obviously setting itself up for a series. I've been hearing about the Dresden Files for years, though I've never looked into it or watched the TV series, so when I visited the bookstore (instead of the library for once) I picked it up. And while there was good (and funny) stuff in there overall it didn't interest me. I suspect that I might have missed something.

You probably didn't miss anything per se, it's just that he, like Terry Pratchett, took some time to establish his style, so the first couple of books are not his best work. Notably, Susan gets shuffled out of the story pretty quickly as she never quite worked in the role she was intended for.

You can and probably should skip the first two books, start with Grave Peril, then go back and read the first two after you're hooked. Grave Peril is really where the metaplot starts to kick in, and it explains itself clearly enough that you wouldn't be lost.
Plus, Michael Carpenter.

I read the Dresden series for a while, but for some reason I also lost interest. I think it's because it feels like Harry is always going to pull some something out of his bum and win in the end. It's sort of like stories with Drizzt. He's not going to die. Period. Or if he does, it's not going to be a real death. Because if he did die then there would be an end to the series. And often, it doesn't feel like he pays for his power. I mean, I love the Character of John Constantine. Even when he wins, he's still fucked.

Well, I don't know how far you got, but while he does have the typical plot armor of any long-running series, Dresden definitely picks up lasting injuries -- both in terms of physical and mental trauma, and in an ever-increasing debt to other powers. The price of power really forms one of the deepest themes in the series.

But, hey, maybe you just don't like his style. It's not everbody's bottle of awesome micro-brewed beer.

In other news, I found out I am going to be unemployed in June. Yay...

Aw, man... good luck finding a new position!

[jacky2734]

Anybody have the current word count on Project Horizons?

[AGurdel]

wc output:

Should be approximately 1.11 million words.

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