[GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

[Scienza]

...Okay?

We're not saying that she's wrong, just that she's in the same boat as us. She isn't a part of the creative process for the show anymore, so she can't tell us what's necessarily true for the show as it is. She is, in effect, a really awesome fan of the show with the headcanon closest to the writer's ideas.

Also, as mean as this is going to sound, getting beaten up at a pony convention doesn't particularly concern me. a) because I'm just like a majority of the fanbase as an unmuscled, mildly antisocial sexy hunk of young nerd, and b) security would just boot both of us out, and nobody wants to risk losing access to their all-to-brief three days of social acceptance by their peers, myself included.

[cb5]

...Okay?

We're not saying that she's wrong, just that she's in the same boat as us. She isn't a part of the creative process for the show anymore, so she can't tell us what's necessarily true for the show as it is. She is, in effect, a really awesome fan of the show with the headcanon closest to the writer's ideas.

Me personally I'd rather trust the person responsible for the fandom even existing than someone's headcanon.  Until the show directly contradicts her it's for all intents and purposes canon, HOWEVER given how much of a pull she still has I don't think hasbro or studio b is ever going to directly contradict her.  They could contradict what she says about the show in little things, like how rainbow dash was being sisterly to scootaloo, but if she ever goes "yeah the show's terrible now" the amount of shit hasbro will get not be undoable.  To use a metaphor imagine if like Stan Lee retired, now imagine if someone else was doing a spiderman movie do you really think the fans would like the movie if stan lee said he didn't like the movie.

Word of faust > your head canon

[FeatherDust]

Also, as mean as this is going to sound, getting beaten up at a pony convention doesn't particularly concern me. a) because I'm just like a majority of the fanbase as an unmuscled, mildly antisocial sexy hunk of young nerd, and b) security would just boot both of us out, and nobody wants to risk losing access to their all-to-brief three days of social acceptance by their peers, myself included.

I'm not worried about it because while people go hyperbolic on the internet all the time, typically when you meet them in real life they are entirely reasonable and friendly people who are more than happy to have an interesting discussion.  While I've heard about some people getting removed from brony conventions by security, it's almost always because of creepy/stalker behavior.  I don't recall hearing about any soccer hooligan-esque fights in the dealer room.

And frankly, cb5, on rereading, that message comes off less as a warning and more as a threat with a "I wouldn't but I'm just warning you" attached as ass-covering.

if she ever goes "yeah the show's terrible now" the amount of shit hasbro will get not be undoable.  To use a metaphor imagine if like Stan Lee retired, now imagine if someone else was doing a spiderman movie do you really think the fans would like the movie if stan lee said he didn't like the movie.

I'd like the movie if it was good and I'd hate it if it was terrible.  Stan Lee and Lauren Faust do not decide my opinions of media for me; I'm comfortable with making my own decisions about what is and is not terrible.

[cb5]

And frankly, cb5, on rereading, that message comes off less as a warning and more as a threat with a "I wouldn't but I'm just warning you" attached as ass-covering.

if she ever goes "yeah the show's terrible now" the amount of shit hasbro will get not be undoable.  To use a metaphor imagine if like Stan Lee retired, now imagine if someone else was doing a spiderman movie do you really think the fans would like the movie if stan lee said he didn't like the movie.

I'd like the movie if it was good and I'd hate it if it was terrible.  Stan Lee and Lauren Faust do not decide my opinions of media for me; I'm comfortable with making my own decisions about what is and is not terrible.

I meant as I know how much everyone outside of the FoE subniche worships lauren, talking badly about her outside of the FoE subniche is a bad idea.  The FoE subniche is the only part of the brony fandom that I know that does not worship her.  I can't stop people from doing it, but chances are if someone goes to a mlp convention and says something negative about her I'd be sitting in the corner placing $50 on the person getting a darwin award.  It'd be like if you went to a star trek convention and yelled out, "Piccard and Kirk suck!"

You're a rarity then, cause in case you've haven't been paying attention to the rest of society most people decide what they watch and what they buy based on what other people say about it.  If they didn't then my entire business field would not exist at all.

Basically going back to my point before we drift too much: What faust says is semi-canon cause given how much sway she still has if they ever contradict her the amount of shit they'll get will be even more than twilighcorn and that's still been going on for seven months so chances are hasbro and studio b is never going to actually contradict her.

[Scienza]

...Okay?

We're not saying that she's wrong, just that she's in the same boat as us. She isn't a part of the creative process for the show anymore, so she can't tell us what's necessarily true for the show as it is. She is, in effect, a really awesome fan of the show with the headcanon closest to the writer's ideas.

Me personally I'd rather trust the person responsible for the fandom even existing than someone's headcanon.  Until the show directly contradicts her it's for all intents and purposes canon, HOWEVER given how much of a pull she still has I don't think hasbro or studio b is ever going to directly contradict her.  They could contradict what she says about the show in little things, like how rainbow dash was being sisterly to scootaloo, but if she ever goes "yeah the show's terrible now" the amount of shit hasbro will get not be undoable.  To use a metaphor imagine if like Stan Lee retired, now imagine if someone else was doing a spiderman movie do you really think the fans would like the movie if stan lee said he didn't like the movie.

Word of faust > your head canon

Yes, she created the show, so thus she has one of the most accurate pictures of the poniverse in existence. However, it's still technically her headcanon. Do you get how everything she said while actively working on the show is canon, while everything after that is technically headcanon, albeit the closest to canon that headcanon will ever get? After she stopped working on the show, everything she's said about FiM that isn't directly retroactive isn't show canon, it's show canon as she would have done it.

I'm not saying that she's wrong, in fact, I'm more inclined to believe what she says, but until the show directly addresses the question, fan speculation is technically just as valid as hers. Her statements are something to keep in mind, as they're likely accurate, but they're in no way definitive.

[cb5]

Yes, she created the show, so thus she has one of the most accurate pictures of the poniverse in existence. However, it's still technically her headcanon. Do you get how everything she said while actively working on the show is canon, while everything after that is technically headcanon, albeit the closest to canon that headcanon will ever get? After she stopped working on the show, everything she's said about FiM that isn't directly retroactive isn't show canon, it's show canon as she would have done it.

I'm not saying that she's wrong, in fact, I'm more inclined to believe what she says, but until the show directly addresses the question, fan speculation is technically just as valid as hers.

But my point is they will NEVER directly contradict her though for big things cause they know better.

[Scienza]

Yes, she created the show, so thus she has one of the most accurate pictures of the poniverse in existence. However, it's still technically her headcanon. Do you get how everything she said while actively working on the show is canon, while everything after that is technically headcanon, albeit the closest to canon that headcanon will ever get? After she stopped working on the show, everything she's said about FiM that isn't directly retroactive isn't show canon, it's show canon as she would have done it.

I'm not saying that she's wrong, in fact, I'm more inclined to believe what she says, but until the show directly addresses the question, fan speculation is technically just as valid as hers.

But my point is they will NEVER directly contradict her though for big things cause they know better.

They can and have. The bottom line is that as much as the team loves and respects Lauren, she isn't involved in the show anymore. If they need/want to, or if Hasbro issues a demand (everypony's a princess now!), they WILL overrule her.

She has a lot of pull, but not that much pull.

For example, Lauren never intended for Cadance to become an alicorn, but Hasbro overruled her. This is one of the examples of how the canon as she would have done it is different than the one that the show actually obeys.

[Icy Shake]

Source

Welcome to the Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion Thread!
This is the place to discuss Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons, a Fallout/MLP:FiM crossover fic by Somber. Story discussion is on the left, group therapy to the right. Please try to schedule your emotional breakdowns when they don't conflict with anyone else's.

Rules
We have just a few simple rules here.

1. Don't put down Somber.
   
2. Project Horizons is a grimdark fic which deals with adult topics, so we might discuss subjects that some readers may find uncomfortable. Be mature about it.
   
3. If Somber or a member of the editing team says to end a discussion, please do so.
   
4. Spoilers abound. If you're not current on the fic, we recommend that you catch up before you read on.
   
5. Expect random discussions that may or may not have anything to do with the story.
   
6. Have fun!
   

People You Should Know
Somber: The author of Project Horizons, creator of Blackjack, maker of awesomeness, is a small gray mare who lives in the head of a guy named David. Ignore her claims of suckage.
Bronode and O. Hinds (now with more Swicked!) (also formerly Snipehamster): Your editing team. They make awesome writing look all shiny and pretty.
Kkat: The author of the original Fallout: Equestria. Not a participant in this discussion (yet), but you should be aware of her anyway. If you haven't read FOE, why are you even here? Go! Read!

Somber's Tip Jar
Thank-yous of the monetary variety may be made through PayPal. Simply click on Send Money, send it to David13ushey@gmail.com and mark it as a personal gift.

Story Links
GoogleDocs chapter index - Links to every chapter, plus FOE and FOEPH resources, media, and story download formats.
.epub Format - Thanks to Scorch_Mechanic.
LaTeX ebook .pdf - Thanks to ThePowersGang.
Nallar's Fanfic Archive - An auto-updated collection of fics offered in a variety of formats including Kindle .mobi, .epub, and .html.

[SilentCarto]

Guys? Guys, I can't put up the first-page post in the right place if you roll the page over while I'm at work.

Geeeeeeez.

 

[SilentCarto]

Ok, let me be clear here.  I've been around the Star Wars fandom a long time and you are misusing the word 'canon'.

Lauren Faust is not canon.  That is not what the word means.  Canon is what happens on the screen, or in the comic book, or in whatever other published media are produced. (Generally in a hierarchy -- the show trumps the comic book, the comic trumps one-off books, etc.)

Word of Faust, Word of Wootie, or any other crew statements are useful in as far as they are statements of intent, but they are subject to change at any time by having an episode that says otherwise.  Faust herself has made this very clear; anything she says is only speaking to her original intent.  Heck, even if she'd stayed on the show, that intent may or may not have actually been in force two-plus years later.  Original intent is always subordinate to the needs of the actual show-writing process.

Word of Faust trumps nothing.  Somebody can grumble that her original idea was better than what was eventually produced, but again, needs of the show -- we can't re-rack history and see how the show would've played out if Faust had stayed on it.  The show as shown is always "the truth" regardless of what Lauren originally meant to happen.

Brohoof and hear hear.

You guys better not say this at any pony convention cause chances are someone would break your nose for this view.

As another longtime fan of Star Wars, I can assure you that arguing about canon is practically a team sport in all fandoms. I'm not afraid to voice my opinons, nor to hear the opinons of others and accept them as valid.

It'd be like if you went to a star trek convention and yelled out, "Piccard and Kirk suck!"

How many times do you suppose this happens on a daily basis when muggles walk past a Las Vegas convention hall full of Starfleet uniforms? You seem to think that people who hold strong opinions are prepared to back them up with violence. This has been my experience in exactly zero conventions I've attended or even heard of.

But my point is they will NEVER directly contradict her though for big things cause they know better.

You obviously haven't been paying attention for the last two seasons.

[Icy Shake]

Guys? Guys, I can't put up the first-page post in the right place if you roll the page over while I'm at work.

Geeeeeeez.

 

Seconded! And your other post, too.

Also, I'd add Scootaloo (probably) being able to fly as another instance of Faust's intentions and statements being overridden, though it's possible that her flightlessness could stick.

Reference

[SilentCarto]

Seconded! And your other post, too.

Also, I'd add Scootaloo (probably) being able to fly as another instance of Faust's intentions and statements being overridden, though it's possible that her flightlessness could stick.

Reference

Uhhhh? Did you avoid watching the S4 teaser animatic?

S4 Spoiler:

[Icy Shake]

Yes, I did. I try to do that.

And I guess I was speaking from the perspective of, say, "Ponyville Confidential" where it looked like things would be going the other way.

[Moodyman90]

Seconded! And your other post, too.

Also, I'd add Scootaloo (probably) being able to fly as another instance of Faust's intentions and statements being overridden, though it's possible that her flightlessness could stick.

Reference

Uhhhh? Did you avoid watching the S4 teaser animatic?

S4 Spoiler:

Spoiler:

[SilentCarto]

Spoiler:

Nothing really spoilery, but related to that conversation:

[cb5]

Disabilities are a touchy subject, and I really don't think the writers would be foolish (insane?) enough to throw out a moral that suggested that someone who hasn't overcome their disability just isn't trying hard enough. If they're touching the subject at all, I'll lay money on the lesson being that you shouldn't let a disability define you.

I actually really like that they gave us three seasons to get acquainted with the character before throwing this out there. It suggests that the writers don't define her by her disability, either.[/spoiler]

I like to think the upcoming episode is more of a "fuck you" to the people that have constantly threatening to sue them if they didn't change the show in a way they wanted. I mean all the way back to when zecora was introduced they've been dealing with people threatening to sue them, but never actually going through it, and they probably just finally went, "yeah you're full of shit" to the people threatening lawsuits.

[Moodyman90]

More stuff about the S4 spoiler.:

Though I think all this talk about canon and all has gotten away from anything FoE related so change of venue or what?

[Icy Shake]

Brohoof and support for change of venue. Or at least spoilering your quotes and discussion of spoiler material.

[SilentCarto]

Spoiler:

I like to think the upcoming episode is more of a "fuck you" to the people that have constantly threatening to sue them if they didn't change the show in a way they wanted.  I mean all the way back to when zecora was introduced they've been dealing with people threatening to sue them, but never actually going through it, and they probably just finally went, "yeah you're full of shit" to the people threatening lawsuits.

You are a very unhappy person.

[cb5]

More stuff about the S4 spoiler.:

Though I think all this talk about canon and all has gotten away from anything FoE related so change of venue or what?

I know how to tie it back into FoE.  With the changes happening to season 4 FoE isn't going to be close at all to canon anymore.  I'm not talking FoE being a parallel universe.  I'm talking about FoE becoming a completely different universe all together that bears no resembleance to FoE's past.  I'm not talking little things either.  I mean like 99.99999% of all fanfics ever are going to be no longer in line with canon even if they were made today levels of changes with the season opener only.

Project Horizons introducing the nightmare or another FoE fanfics introducing the nightmare as a poltergeist that can posses any pony would be pretty cool though.  I could go on, but I accidentally listead a leak that was massively spoiler heavy and saw icy shake's post and I have to agree I'll avoid posting spoilers for season 4.

[TalixZero]

 I'll avoid posting spoilers for season 4.

Thank yoouuuu~

[Caoimhe]

Took me forever to finally finish reading the latest chapter but holy crap, way to expand the FoEniverse, Somber! Not much to say but the parts with the whole movie/tv show/cartoon being produced were great and something I definitely was surprised to see!

Ok back to work.

[Scienza]

More stuff about the S4 spoiler.:

Though I think all this talk about canon and all has gotten away from anything FoE related so change of venue or what?

I kinda always assumed that Snowflake flew via bumblebee physics.

cb5I know how to tie it back into FoE.  With the changes happening to season 4 FoE isn't going to be close at all to canon anymore.  I'm not talking FoE being a parallel universe.  I'm talking about FoE becoming a completely different universe all together that bears no resembleance to FoE's past.  I'm not talking little things either.  I mean like 99.99999% of all fanfics ever are going to be no longer in line with canon even if they were made today levels of changes with the season opener only.

Project Horizons introducing the nightmare or another FoE fanfics introducing the nightmare as a poltergeist that can posses any pony would be pretty cool though.  I could go on, but I accidentally listead a leak that was massively spoiler heavy and saw icy shake's post and I have to agree I'll avoid posting spoilers for season 4.

Thus is the danger of creating derivative fiction. It's still AU, as it will never become completely distinct unless it suddenly ceases to involve poni. New show canon is like someone else's side story. It's interesting to keep in mind, and can aid in your writing, but it doesn't necessarily have any bearing on your version of Fallout Equestria.

[Derpmind]

Uuugh. I really wish I had read the thread yesterday so I could say something sooner. cb5, some people like writing their FoE fics close to canon, others don't care, and still others like being close sometimes but different others. Even if you had convinced everyone here that 'FoE fics shouldn't care about canon' there'd still be plenty of FoE writers that would go on to keep doing whatever they want with canon. But that doesn't seem to have been your real goal because you've been bringing up other topics in a contentious manner. I'm gonna get straight to it: You shouldn't try and argue with the intention to 'win' an argument. There are two definitions of 'argument': The shouting match, and the conversation. If you shout an opinion loud enough, some people will agree with you, but the best arguments don't magically make everyone agree with the argument. Good arguments will make people think about the subject in ways they didn't previously, and the best arguments are ones that will make people question even their pre-existing opinions. Whether they decide to agree or disagree with that argument, or even form a new opinion or idea, is their decision.

I don't know if you're trying to provoke us or just be loud, but your recent posts have all been nosediving way past reasonable. Please stop.

[ARoundCorner]

I saw this beautiful picture this morning and couldn't stop laughing.

[Scienza]

I saw this beautiful picture this morning and couldn't stop laughing.

...So, um, is this supposed the be representative of the two parts of Blackjacl's personality, the victim and self-sadist?

[Frost]

I saw this beautiful picture this morning and couldn't stop laughing.

This is the sort of thing that goes over on the chat thread, I'd think. Not to be mean, it's just we've had issues of people in the past (including myself, admittedly) dragging the thread into nonsense, which is why the chat thread was created

[ARoundCorner]

Well, Mister Frost, I saw this and immediately thought of project horizons. I felt a major theme was the self-inflicted harm Blackjack brought on herself while trying to fight the good fight. Angels live in heaven and stars are often called the heavens. The stars of Project Horizons have destined Blackjack to live a life of self-sacrifice. Although Blackjack tries to avoid this, she unavoidably causes pain to herself and others over and over again. Therefore, this picture is an analogy to Project Horizon's Blackjack's struggle with the stars.

Loljk, When I posted this I just thought it was funny, but thank you Scienza!

[Scienza]

Well, Mister Frost, I saw this and immediately thought of project horizons. I felt a major theme was the self-inflicted harm Blackjack brought on herself while trying to fight the good fight. Angels live in heaven and stars are often called the heavens. The stars of Project Horizons have destined Blackjack to live a life of self-sacrifice. Although Blackjack tries to avoid this, she unavoidably causes pain to herself and others over and over again. Therefore, this picture is an analogy to Project Horizon's Blackjack's struggle with the stars.

Loljk, When I posted this I just thought it was funny, but thank you Scienza!

That's how I get my jollies.

[Somber]

These are indications that I need to get 61 out sooner rather than later...

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