[GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

[StoneSlinger88]

The zebras were doing most of the dying when trying to take Hoofington. Equipping them and sending them to battle just to have them make virtually no headway would be very expensive. The cyberzebras might be able to make bigger dents with a similar or smaller pricetag, since they could withstand attacks that would kill a normal zebra several times over.

As for the flesh covering them, maybe they would be mixing in with the regular units, as we first saw in the transfer of the Pheonix Talisman. That way, the Equestrian forces couldn't tell them apart until the battle was already going, and by that time it would be too late to request heavier firepower and reinforcements to prevent the ponies from having to retreat.

[jacky2734]

Okay, do you guys have any idea about the time and resources required to make cybernetic zebra soldiers.
-First, you have to have a viable "volunteer" pool that can range from actual volunteers to critically injured soldiers or even abductees.
-Then, you've got to get the "volunteers" prepped for the conversion by getting into Peak physical and mental condition, because if, for one reason or another, they don't recover from the procedure, you've just wasted a very valuable resource in both the recipient and the augmentations that were probably ruined.
-After that, you've actually got to put the "volunteers" through the conversion procedure, which is probably very time consuming and labor intensive and requires several highly skilled surgeons for each conversion.
-And after all that is done, your new cyber soldier can't just go out into the battlefield. They need time to get use to their new bodies and be trained in how to use them most effectively. That's not even considering the amount of brainwashing and indoctrination required to make them into soulless killing machines.
All together, the process is very time consuming and resource intensive.

Compare that to making a viable attack drone.
-Develop design.
-Send schematics to the factory and have them start mass-producing the drone.
-Download pre-programmed attack patterns and Friend-or-Foe designators.
-Drop them into a battlefield and watch them go to work.

Somebody please tell me how making a cyborg soldier is cheaper than making a killdrone.

While we're on the subject of Zebra Robots, where are they? Seriously, we were told that late in the war, the Zs had to start relying on robots more than the ponies did just to stay in the fight, yet all we've seen in the story are Equestrian designs, a zebra tank, and a few Zebra Cyborgs. We're not even told what the Zebras' warbots even look like, or how they were deployed on the battlefield.
Unless the cyborgs are actually just full robots with artificial skin like a terminator, which, now that I think about it, is actually quite likely. It would give the impression that the zebras still had plenty of reserves and better cybernetics than the ponies who developed the concept.

[Guest]

@swicked
This frickin' rocked.

[Moodyman90]

Swicked, I always love reading your reviews. LSP just made it even funnier.

[Ketchup]

Disclaimer:

Do NOT continue if you are not a fan of Adventure Time:

That made my day.

[Meleagridis]

Unicon relief available, sign the form and receive.


As for the robozebes, I'll put a chip on Cogs. Perhaps. Let me mull over the chapter.

[jacky2734]

Uh, Swicked, I think you cut too much out of that quote, I would include the paragraph directly after that as well.

Also, I have no idea what a starcraft dragoon is. I was thinking FoE-style Terminator. You know, built in a factory and having artificial flesh grafted to them so that they were indistinguishable from a real zebra.

[Icy Shake]

Blazing Celestia getting up in all the lumps that was awesome, Swicked.

On the cyberzebras, before the possibility that they were really just robots was raised, I thought that perhaps it had to do with cybernetics requiring fewer gems than robotics. That might particularly work if gems were used for processing, and could be replaced by neural tissue. The total investment might look prohibitive from the Equestrian side, but with one particular resource defining the zebras' limits, it might make sense. The problem there is explaining the quantity of robots they did have.

One little thing:

[FeatherDust]

On the nature and purpose of Coyotl zebras:

I think we're going off track with the Coyotl analysis.

First, a little thing: I'm fairly sure Coyotl isn't a clan. The "brood of coyotl" makes it sound like Coyotl is a progenitor (most likely figuratively). Definitely could be another Discord-like creature, given the association to the native american trickster spirit Coyote, and the spelling (at least for me) evokes an "aztec deity" feel, probably because I've never seen the "tl" ending outside of Aztec names like "Quetzalcoatl" or "Huitzilopochtli".

Second: Why do we think they're terminators (that is, full robot under skin) rather than what they're stated to be, which is heavily cyborged zebras?

Because they don't eat? First I doubt that report, since the reporter probably wasn't watching them 24/7. Rather, I'd say "they don't eat normal food at regular times". For all we know they subsist on gemstones. Y'know who else doesn't eat? Blackjack. When's the last time she ate anything that wasn't metal, gems, or a cyberpony cake? She could subsist on gems if she needed to, I seem to recall.

Because they stand really still? Blackjack has noted that this is an effect of heavy cyborging. She went on at length about the "inner silence" of mechanical organs, and I believe at one point she mentioned that her cyberlegs didn't move at all when she didn't intend to use them -- lacking the normal shifts and twitches of muscles -- which made her stand strangely still. Didn't she also forget to blink for an extended period, at one point? In any case, this doesn't support 'robot' any more than it supports 'heavy cyborging'. They have not been shown to be less alive in mind than any crew of well trained soldiers, since every time we've seen them, they're essentially on review.

Third: Why do they exist?
Well, there is no really good reason to shove a robot into skin. Skin is messy and gets in the way. The only purpose to skin is if you're borging a previously living zebra. And in that case, you want the mind mostly intact, since a brain can react in ways a computer can't.

[jacky2734]

Blazing Celestia getting up in all the lumps that was awesome, Swicked.

On the cyberzebras, before the possibility that they were really just robots was raised, I thought that perhaps it had to do with cybernetics requiring fewer gems than robotics. That might particularly work if gems were used for processing, and could be replaced by neural tissue. The total investment might look prohibitive from the Equestrian side, but with one particular resource defining the zebras' limits, it might make sense. The problem there is explaining the quantity of robots they did have.

You forget that with a warbot, whose only purpose is to kill enemies on a battlefield, all it basically needs to know is how to operate it's body, who to take orders from, how to attack, what to attack, and what not to attack. The processing power for that would be exponentially less than the processing power required to make a biological body work in symbiosis with major cybernetic implants.

In the time and with the resources it would take to produce one cyborg super-soldier, their factories theoretically could produce dozens, if not hundreds, of warbots.

Basically, for the zebras, it would have boiled down to whether they wanted a lot of very simple, brutal machines whose only purpose is slaughter, or a few well trained, well equipped super soldiers who could still fight with honor, make on the spot moral decisions, and remain very flexible in and out of combat. From what I've seen of the Cyberzebras so far, it almost looks like they chose the former.

[Sindri]

Do NOT continue if you are not a fan of Adventure Time:

...dat face. What exactly is happening in LMR's head here?

Okay, do you guys have any idea about the time and resources required to make cybernetic zebra soldiers.
-First, you have to have a viable "volunteer" pool that can range from actual volunteers to critically injured soldiers or even abductees.
-Then, you've got to get the "volunteers" prepped for the conversion by getting into Peak physical and mental condition, because if, for one reason or another, they don't recover from the procedure, you've just wasted a very valuable resource in both the recipient and the augmentations that were probably ruined.
-After that, you've actually got to put the "volunteers" through the conversion procedure, which is probably very time consuming and labor intensive and requires several highly skilled surgeons for each conversion.
-And after all that is done, your new cyber soldier can't just go out into the battlefield. They need time to get use to their new bodies and be trained in how to use them most effectively. That's not even considering the amount of brainwashing and indoctrination required to make them into soulless killing machines.
All together, the process is very time consuming and resource intensive.

OR, you use Blanks. They start at peak physical condition. They don't have a mind to break, and instead of trying to integrate cybernetic systems with a person you want to remain sane you can just slap in a normal computer and either bypass the organic brain entirely or use it as an organic processor. Instead of a person adjusting to their new parts and learning to use them properly, you have a semi-organic machine that's pre-programmed to fight. Most of the mechanics are there already from the Blank, saving lots of material, with the tradeoff being that the electrical components need to be significantly higher quality and complexity to interface with the body properly.

If you're limited by money, we don't know which works better because we can't compare the cost of high grade electronics + clones versus the cost of middling electronics and a lot of hardware. But if you're limited by start-to-finish production time, metals and other robot building materials, or how much you can carry on a stealth mission, they're great.
Which is why I thought of production behind enemy lines; cyberparts are light and tiny compared to warbots so your specialist team can carry them in, once you get the clones you can install the new parts in a few hours for each (an assembly line full of robots might finish one every minute when it's running full, but start-to-end time is looong), and in a few days you go from a tiny team that snuck past the enemy perimeter to a force of hundreds of (mostly organic) warbots, ready to strike at various soft targets relying on the security at the borders to stop any big forces. It's a portable instant army, just add Ichor.

[O. Hinds]

Kay, so... yeah. This took a very long time.
It was fun, but exhausting and I won't do it again, I don't think... at least, not without significant encouragement and/or free time :P

So... yeah. This is my Little Miss Rarity and Lumpy Space Princess paired review of chapter 54. I hope the two people that thought this was a good idea, one of which having reminded me to do it after I forgot last chapter, receive all the enjoyment from it that they anticipated.

Oh, and maybe it'll be useful for the writing team, too. It's kinda hard to tell with something like this.

That said:

Disclaimer:

Do NOT continue if you are not a fan of Adventure Time:

...Um. Really sorry, but I'm going to have to skip your review this time. I tried reading it, and it was to much a a struggle to keep going. Was there anything in the review that you think it's important for me/the writing team to know?

While we're on the subject of Zebra Robots, where are they? Seriously, we were told that late in the war, the Zs had to start relying on robots more than the ponies did just to stay in the fight, yet all we've seen in the story are Equestrian designs, a zebra tank, and a few Zebra Cyborgs. We're not even told what the Zebras' warbots even look like, or how they were deployed on the battlefield.
Unless the cyborgs are actually just full robots with artificial skin like a terminator, which, now that I think about it, is actually quite likely. It would give the impression that the zebras still had plenty of reserves and better cybernetics than the ponies who developed the concept.

We did see a few dead Zebra robots in the same memory where we first saw the Brood of Coyotal. As for why we haven't seen any live ones... Well, I'd like to think that, if there are Zebra warbots operating in the Wasteland, they're either really, really stealthy or don't leave any survivors. :)

One little thing:

I don't really see a problem with the word order, but thank you for pointing out the repetition.

[OneMoreDaySK]

...Um. Really sorry, but I'm going to have to skip your review this time. I tried reading it, and it was to much a a struggle to keep going. Was there anything in the review that you think it's important for me/the writing team to know?

Err... I said at the beginning, it has highly-debatable usefullness. No, I don't think there's really anything to be gleaned. I tried to stay true to the character of LSP over providing, well, relevant opinions... and she wouldn't really have anything useful to say about a fic like this, particularly since it's not her genre.
If you don't mind me asking, do my reviews generally "help"? I always thought they were just kinda amusing.
I generally try to make my reviews be reviews, but due to reasons I kinda had to make this one this way, so... yeah. 99% sure it won't happen again.
If anything, I'd of recommended you not read it. I felt really silly making it, after all XP

There's a couple spelling/grammar corrections, but they're old enough I wouldn't be surprised if they'd already been corrected.
Oh, and the fact that no one ever seems to react to Deus's turret firing right next to their heads.

Edit:
Is it ironic that my spouse decided not just to read the review, but quite enjoyed it? Particularly since said spouse has never read, nor had interest in reading, Fallout Equestria?
While the writers (well, one of them, so far) the review should presumably be for don't care for it at all? XD

Well, what a ways a wish can go. I'll read it soon, just let me catch up on sleep and reread the chapter. I'm sure judging from everyone else's comments that it was enjoyable.

And by the way, thanks.

[CamoBadger]

Ask Echo, ya ding dong.

I lost it here

[O. Hinds]

@Swicked:
Ah, thanks.

If you don't mind me asking, do my reviews generally "help"? I always thought they were just kinda amusing.

Well, I consider amusing me to be being helpful :). More seriously, though, even if there are no mechanical problems spotted (which is usually what I work on in this area), feedback is generally useful to increase our knowledge pool (though that sort of thing is more for Somber than for me).

[CD]

I hope it's okay if I make my introductory post here. I caught up on this story today and Hinds encouraged me to join the forum, so now that I won't have to worry about spoilers, I've done so. It's been a long read, but a fun one, and I'm anxious to see the next chapters posted.

I should probably say something relevant to the discussion running at the moment, but can't think of something that's not been said better before. Anyway, congrats to the writer on making such an epic fanfic and spawning hundreds of pages worth of discussion.

[Ketchup]

Welcome, CD.
I hope you like abstract discussion and general madness, as plenty of both gets thrown around. Feel free to bring up a topic or contribute to current ones, it's always nice to see new folks around and contributing.

[Sindri]

Welcome to the Hoof! you poor brave doomed soul

This thread is where we do most of our crazy theories and predictions, reactions/reviews for recent chapters, and debates about everything from character interpretations and relationships through the nature of the FoE 'verse and how magic works. We also have another thread for discussing everything that isn't directly Project Horizons based. Don't worry about sticking to one subject or contributing to the conversation at hand too much; if there's something you want to bring up please do so.

Moral support for all manner of problems is freely available, as is detailed information on a surprisingly wide array of subjects. We're pretty much all mad here, but generally in a nonthreatening manner, and I personally promise to never track you to your home IRL. If possible, please schedule any major mental breakdowns to not coincide with those of others.

[CamoBadger]

Welcome to the community CD! I hope you enjoy it here, and don't be afraid to ask any questions you might have.

[CD]

I hope it's okay if I make my introductory post here. I caught up on this story today and Hinds encouraged me to join the forum, so now that I won't have to worry about spoilers, I've done so. It's been a long read, but a fun one, and I'm anxious to see the next chapters posted.

I should probably say something relevant to the discussion running at the moment, but can't think of something that's not been said better before. Anyway, congrats to the writer on making such an epic fanfic and spawning hundreds of pages worth of discussion.

Hundreds?
We were clearing thousands weekly back on equestria daily.
We're beyond several tens of thousands now.
Maybe hundreds of thousands? Eh...

Anyway, 'lo.

Yeah, I've kinda noticed. I was actually interested in reading some of the reactions to chapter 33, but it's easier to go diving for quarters in quicksand.

[Sindri]

Yeah, I've kinda noticed. I was actually interested in reading some of the reactions to chapter 33, but it's easier to go diving for quarters in quicksand.

Well, if we go through by date then-

Wait, I don't think there's a record of when chapters were first released. And the doc has almost certainly been edited since then...

Hey Hinds, do you have it written down anywhere?

[Vergil]

I think it was about a year go.
February or March of last year.
That's where I'd start, at least.

I believe it was March. I first started reading PH right when 33 was released.

[Valikdu]

Probably January. I have ch.38 as a PDF, and it's dated March 5th.

[Vergil]

Probably January. I have ch.38 as a PDF, and it's dated March 5th.

Huh. Guess I've lost all sense of time then. Meh, that's overrated anyway.

[O. Hinds]

I hope it's okay if I make my introductory post here. I caught up on this story today and Hinds encouraged me to join the forum, so now that I won't have to worry about spoilers, I've done so. It's been a long read, but a fun one, and I'm anxious to see the next chapters posted.

I should probably say something relevant to the discussion running at the moment, but can't think of something that's not been said better before. Anyway, congrats to the writer on making such an epic fanfic and spawning hundreds of pages worth of discussion.

Welcome!

Yeah, I've kinda noticed. I was actually interested in reading some of the reactions to chapter 33, but it's easier to go diving for quarters in quicksand.

Well, if we go through by date then-

Wait, I don't think there's a record of when chapters were first released. And the doc has almost certainly been edited since then...

Hey Hinds, do you have it written down anywhere?

I think that I know a way to find out, but my internet connection is currently being terrible. Oh, on that note, I've heard that there's a group on FaceBook amassing complaints against Windstream Communications to send to the FCC. It somewhat makes me want to get a FaceBook account just to join them.

[Caoimhe]

Holy crap, hard to believe that 33 was a year ago. D:

I of course caught on to this shindig later on but the sense of time of it all is nuts.

[Quotidian]

Jeez. It really has been a long time, hasn't it?

On a semi-related note- and I don't know if this has been posted before -there's this guy on YouTube called CrazedRambling who's doing a reading of Project Horizons. He's pretty good, and he works fast as well. Usually puts out a chapter a week, and he's up to chapter five right now.

Quick warning, though. It'll make you read all of P-21's dialogue with a British accent.

[Stringtheory]

Jeez. It really has been a long time, hasn't it?

On a semi-related note- and I don't know if this has been posted before -there's this guy on YouTube called CrazedRambling who's doing a reading of Project Horizons. He's pretty good, and he works fast as well. Usually puts out a chapter a week, and he's up to chapter five right now.

Quick warning, though. It'll make you read all of P-21's dialogue with a British accent.

eh, I'm incredibly picky with my readers so I'm going to have to pass on this one

[Derpmind]

I like audiobooks in theory. But they don't work out for me because they're SO SLOW. And the voices always sound more realistic in my head. It's damn impressive that this person's done all of FoE on audiobook, and is crazy enough to give a crack at PH too, but I can't listen to a male voice narrating what is technically female narration. Also, and this is just my opinion, but a neutral voice for narration just doesn't work for me. It's supposed to be Blackjack's mental self-narration, and that should have personality behind it. But mostly all audiobooks are TOO SLOW for me. Still, for everyone who an audiobook actually works, it's great to see this guy doing the impossible.

[Stringtheory]

I like audiobooks in theory. But they don't work out for me because they're SO SLOW. And the voices always sound more realistic in my head. It's damn impressive that this person's done all of FoE on audiobook, and is crazy enough to give a crack at PH too, but I can't listen to a male voice narrating what is technically female narration. Also, and this is just my opinion, but a neutral voice for narration just doesn't work for me. It's supposed to be Blackjack's mental self-narration, and that should have personality behind it. Still, for everyone who an audiobook actually works, it's great to see this guy doing the impossible.

this is very much the case for me, especially if the narration doesn't sound like the voice I'd imagined (which is never), third person stories work better, especially if the reader has a smexy voice, and is good at voice acting

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