Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

[Ironmonger]

I've now taken away the content of this post, though the message was that the previous topic ends and if you need to be told why, I will do so over PM to explain just how serious it is. Okay?

The fuq. As a person who's brain is running in a circle, I am a bit lost.

[Kippershy]

Found this and laughed.

[Ironmonger]

Might not be safe for work.

Spoiler:

[OneMoreDaySK]

Might not be safe for work.

No it's definitely not safe for work. All that water could get on the equipment. Actually, how in the hay did she set up the plumbing for that to work? And if she got contracters to do that, why not pay them to fix up the place as well. Wait, where would contractors come from and where would they get materials. I'm confused.

[Ironmonger]

Way to make my eyes cross buddy!

When life sets up a shower in your office TEAR IT THE FUCK DOWN.

[Kippershy]

I just started laughing my head off like a lunatic..

I can rename myself Crimson 'Kipper' Wings at the tip of hat... legally. (In real life).

How?


"How to change your name


If you wish to be known by a different name you can change your name
at any time, provided you do not intend to deceive or defraud another
person. There is no legal procedure to follow in order to change a name.
You simply start using the new name. You can change your forename or
surname, add names or rearrange your existing names.

Although there is no legal way to change a name, you may want evidence that you have changed your name (see under heading Evidence of change of name). However, you cannot change details on your birth certificate, except in limited circumstances.

For more information about changing your name on a birth certificate, go to the Directgov website at www.direct.gov.uk.

Once you have decided to change your name, you can use the new name
for all purposes, for example, publishing marriage bans, legal
proceedings and obtaining, or changing details on a driving licence or
passport."



THAT was from the citizens advice website.. which is a government run thing.
Which means I only have to say my new name is whatever I like... and it's so.

[Ironmonger]

I'm tempted to make my last name Ironmonger now. "Hello, I am Lord Jared of House Ironmonger."
I'd be trying my hardest to keep up the formal attitude, all it would take is a would-be mugger to make me lose it.
"I bid you a good say sir-C'MERE BITCH I'M PUT A SHELL IN YOUR F[REDACTED]OT ASS!" *racks shotgun*

[Kippershy]

This is UK, not US.

[Ironmonger]

I know but a dream can man.

[Kippershy]

You can still change your name in the US, but I don't know if you need to do any legal stuff there.

[Ironmonger]

I looked it up, in 46 states the law is pretty similar to the UK, but for some places like banks you may need a court ruling to make it "official".

[Kippershy]

Over here the only thing that requires legal work is if you want to get a passport with your new name.
Says that driving license can be changed without hassle, no idea about banks though.

[Ironmonger]

Speaking of laws, we have finicky gun laws over here, doesn't help they vary from state to state. My brother's father-in-law in Kentucky shot some guy in home defense and killed him, got off scott-free because of castle doctrine. Over here in Ohio you can carry a weapon out in the open (you could carry a mosin-nagant across your back in public if you wanted to) but you have a chance of being arrested if you shoot someone in defense of your home.

EDIT: As far as I know anyway.

[Sindri]

It's all about disproportionate retribution. Carrying a gun makes you safer, and doing so openly means you both discourage attacks on or near you and you probably aren't planning anything shady with it. Killing someone for trespassing is completely disproportionate to the crime they committed and likely counts as a homicide on your part. Shooting someone who was attempting to kill you or others will likely put you in court until you can prove your justification, but won't have any major long term penalties for you if you convince the jury you're in the right.

In states like Texas and Kentucky, the culture is such that the basic assumption in most cases is that if someone invades your house, you are justified in shooting them. Though everyone I know who's actually invoked that uses a gun loaded with rock salt; it'll never kill them so your conscience stays clean and the law knows you had no intention of doing more than keeping people off your property, but it hurts like hell so nobody will think of doing so twice. Plus you can prove that you're willing to shoot without actually doing serious damage to anyone so you never get in the awkward situation of somebody daring you to pull the trigger.

[Ironmonger]

Which is why I mainly intend on using my future guns as psychological weapons in home defense. Preferably I'd rather have an Ithaca 37 like my bro Frost (he may as well be my brother) but a Nagant is cheaper and might look more threatening. If I shoot someone I'd go for the lower torso or legs if at all able, but that's a controlled situation. A shot to the chest seems like it would be pretty likely, I've been considering getting less-lethal shotgun ammunition but even those can deadly at point-blank range.

EDIT: Saw that thing about rock-salt.

[Kippershy]

Even rocksalt can be deadly, as Iron says, at close enough range.
Hell, if you have even a blank pressed against the temple of your head you can potentially kill yourself with the sheer force of the pressure.
(Or so I heard, after a magician was going to do that trick over here in the UK - he was going to play R.R with empty chambers + 1 blank)

Though yes, if you're going for home defence, nab a shotgun and load it with either rocksalt or beanbag shots.
Both will fucking HURT at close enough range for a shotgun to be effective (read: home defence) and possibly do enough damage so that the culprit is incapacitated inside your home so police may collect them.

[Ironmonger]

I might just save up for a Saiga 12. Extremely tough and reliable, quicker to load than a tube-feeder. Not to mention threatening therefore sexy. Could see about getting a bayonet lug for it.

[FeatherDust]

In states like Texas and Kentucky, the culture is such that the basic assumption in most cases is that if someone invades your house, you are justified in shooting them. Though everyone I know who's actually invoked that uses a gun loaded with rock salt; it'll never kill them so your conscience stays clean and the law knows you had no intention of doing more than keeping people off your property, but it hurts like hell so nobody will think of doing so twice. Plus you can prove that you're willing to shoot without actually doing serious damage to anyone so you never get in the awkward situation of somebody daring you to pull the trigger.

Well, rock salt is only less lethal, not non lethal. You are unlikely to cause a fatal wound but it could happen; at close range you can get a lethal wound from a blank.

Anyway, the Castle Doctrine (which its what that's called) is based in the idea that an invasion of a home is inherently a threat to one's person, and it's ridiculous to expect somebody to wait to see if the intruder is armed, or expect them to attempt retreat - that is, leave their own home - before employing force against the intruder.

[Kippershy]

I agree with the castle doctrine, as much flak as that would get me from some people.

Your home is yours.
If someone comes along with the intent to take something by force or hurt you - why shouldn't you be allowed to threaten, and if necessary, kill them in defence?
It's a primal instinct to protect oneself and ones belongings.

Yes, it can be abused and misused to harm innocents - but the risk is nowhere near the 'reward' as it were of keeping the majority of people safe and happy.


In the UK we've got a law of "appropriate force" yet it's never been defined how much force appropriate force is.
Which means in theory, me as a large guy could quite easily be going above the appropriate force limits simply by being in a fist fight and making sure that they won't get up and continue to attack me.

Yes, that is right. By simply punching someone who is in my own home - I could theoretically be using more force than is "appropriate for the situation" due to my size and strength.

All because some wankers in Whitehall don't want to give a definitive recommendation / limitation / scale on what is too much.

[Ironmonger]

Personally I'd have to use a gun or melee weapon for self defense. Technically I'm rather large but I have short legs, and in a fist fight it's awkward to be aiming up at someone. Proportionally I'd be like a Darknut from Zelda: The Wind Waker.

Spoiler:

Also Kip are you a large as in tall guy or the actual definition of large? I know you said you're 6'3" sometime back.

[Cptadder]

Okay I come back to weird things but I need to chime in since Home defense is a near and dear thing to my heart.

First off state laws in the US, the following are Castle Law states.

Alabama
Arizona
Florida
Georgia
Indiana
Kentucky
Louisiana
Michigan
Montana
New Hampshire
Oklahoma
Pennsylvania
South Carolina
Tennessee
Texas
Utah
Washington
In other states without the castle doctrine it's a issue of justified homicide and self defense laws which are a lot more uniform and boil down to "If a reasonable person thinks you were in danger of your life from an attacker then you can kill them". A key part of those laws is that you have to try and retreat, or that an attempt to retreat was made. If someone brandishes a knife and demands your wallet in Ohio you must first try and run away before you can attempt to defend yourself.

Castle Doctrine removes that as previous posters have said. It means if your in your house it is yours to defend, if some kid breaks in to steal your DVDs you can legally kill him but if you chase him down the street and shoot him on the curb then your a murderer.

What is new and what got Florida so famous because of the Trayvon Martin case and the new "Stand your Ground" laws which basically means you are your own moving castle. Thing is Standard your Ground Laws unlike the Castle Doctrine is much less uniform so while Florda, South Carolina and Alabama have full stand your ground laws, Arizona South Dakota have much more limited firms which simply extend the Castle Doctrine to movement, IE in South Dakota if you brandish a knife and tell someone to get in a car or to leave a building or any other kind of kidnapping then any homicide is justified. Florida and a few other states are special in that it's almost Wild West situation.
For example how about these cases

· In November 2007, a Houston-area man pulled out a shotgun and killed two men whom he suspected of burglarizing his neighbor’s home. Joe Horn, a 61-year-old retiree, called 911 and urged the operator to “ ‘Catch these guys, will you? Cause, I ain’t going to let them go.’ ” Despite being warned to remain inside his home, Horn stated he would shoot, telling the operator, “ ‘I have a right to protect myself too, sir. The laws have been changed in this country since September the first, and you know it.’ ”

· In Louisiana early this year, a grand jury cleared 21-year-old Byron Thomas after he fired into an SUV filled with teenagers after an alleged marijuana transaction went sour. One of the bullets struck and killed 15-year-old Jamonta Miles. Although the SUV was allegedly driving away when Thomas opened fire, Lafourche Parish Sheriff Craig Webre said to local media that as far as Thomas knew, someone could have jumped out of the vehicle with a gun. Thomas, said the sheriff, had “decided to stand his ground.”

· In April, 22-year-old Cordell Jude shot and killed Daniel Adkins Jr., a pedestrian who walked in front of Jude’s car just as Jude was pulling up to the window of a Taco Bell drive-thru in Arizona. Jude claimed Adkins had waved his arms in the air, wielding what Judge thought was a metal pipe – it was actually a dog leash. Jude shot the 29-year-old Adkins, who was mentally disabled, once in the chest. As of May, an arrest had not been made in the April 3 shooting. Arizona passed a Stand Your Ground law in 2010.

· In January, a judge in Miami tossed out a second-degree murder charge against Greyston Garcia after he chased a suspected burglar for more than a block and stabbed him to death. The judge decided the stabbing was justified because the burglar had swung a bag of stolen car radios at Garcia – an object that a medical examiner at a hearing testified could cause “serious harm or death.” The judge found Garcia was “well within his rights to pursue the victim and demand the return of his property.”

As you can see the first and last cases are the most horrible from a legal standpoint. Remember as in all modern societies, in America it's on the prosecution to press charges. If they don't then you can "get away with it" That's only supposed to happen when there is not enough evidence to prosecute not when the prosecutor agrees with your actions. But that sort of things does happen, which is why vigilantly justice is still acceptable to some extent in America. Comes from our cultural obsession with independence and self made people defending their own.

What does it all mean?
If your in a stand your ground state watch your moves as the law situation is very lose at the moment. If you want to defend your home then yes shotgun with rocksalt is good not only from a less than lethal perspective but the second reason which Iron and the rest ignored.... it won't penetrate walls The last thing you want to do is shoot an intruder only to blast your loved ones on the other wall.

Home defense you want big slow moving bullets perfect for punch holes in people but will mushroom out and lose all their energy once they hit something. Hollow point .45s are a good example but the shotgun remains king for home defense for that reason. You don't want an AK or an Uzi for home defense as ranges are going to all be inside ten meters (And if they are not then by all means hire some damn Ninjas Mr McMansion) and you don't want to be shooting through your walls.

[RoboRed]

Also Kip are you a large as in tall guy or the actual definition of large? I know you said you're 6'3" sometime back.

A video featuring Kipper. (on shrooms)

[Valikdu]

I love the new banner.

[Ironmonger]

I saw that video. Kip would be small in both height and bulk compared to some of the men in my family. I have a nephew who is around 7'0" 300 pounds, my brother is 6'2" and about three feet wide at his shoulders, I had an uncle who was a toothpick at 7'0" (total creep), and my grandpa is 6'2-3" (can't remember which) despite having really short legs. Though that's what it seems, videos tend to be bad at scale.

Bonus: Joke I came up with. I'm walking to a friends house when a guy in sunglasses walks up to me and hands me a pack of cards. I say to him "What am I supposed to do with this?", he tells me "Deal with it."

@CptAdder I wouldn't say I ignored it, it never came to mind. That's another issue I have, I get so focused on a few factors that everything else doesn't exist in my mind. Not sure if it's the ADD, something else, or just me. I would have mentioned penetration if I thought of it.

[Ketchup]

The tallest person I've ever seen was the teaching student who will be observing our Math class, and today was his first day, coincidentally. He was asked almost immediately how tall he was and he said he was 6'8". He also has an awesome beard.

[Ironmonger]

Fee-fi-fo-fum ponies. Also Four Score and Seven Seals.

[RoboRed]

Bonus: Joke I came up with. I'm walking to a friends house when a guy in sunglasses walks up to me and hands me a pack of cards. I say to him "What am I supposed to do with this?", he tells me "Deal with it."

...God damnit... (lolz)

[Ironmonger]

*hat and cane*♫ Hee-hee-ha-ha-hee-hee-ha, do da! do da!♫
One of these days someone from the forum is going to show up at my house with a .45 just as I think of a pun. There would be no point.

Spoiler:

[RoboRed]

Well played.

[Ironmonger]

Indeed my good sir, indeed.

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