Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

[Kippershy]

The Goddess was the one to question LP directly over her antics when they first met.

She was telling LP of the corrupt nature of her adventures - though she would go and save ponies from the momentary danger, she wouldn't give them a long lasting chance at having anything better than waiting for the next time the same happened.

Which is true, even if it isn't LP's responsibility to play babysitter.
She can't make sure everyone continues to live a long fulfilling life free of risks, though she doesn't try very hard past getting them out of whatever snag they're in.

[Cptadder]

Spoiler:

That was very well thought out and well said Swicked. One thing though, the core of Boing's beliefs seems to be that everything everyone does is for selfish reasons whether those reason be physical gain or mental satisfaction and that nopony can give freely of themselves. Maybe you could try telling her about the sacrifices ponies, even possibly herself, have made in the past for others with no way of being or feeling better for it afterwards.

I think she might interested to hear about certain golden colored pony who lived roughly 200 years ago, from one perspective he would seem like a perfect example of what she's talking about, somepony who did horrible, torturous things and justified them by the goal of ending the war and thus feeling like a hero (and better than everyone else) for it. But if you think about it, would he really have gone through what he did and suffered like he did just to feel superior? His conscience was so mutilated it defied the word guilt, I don't think anypony could feel that way with a mental burden like that on their shoulders, I think he really wanted for the war to simply stop, not for his own happiness and inner peace (which he made sure he could never achieve), but for the sake of everypony, and zebra, and griffin, and dragon out there who deserved better than the world they currently lived in. He accepted being vilified by all including himself for that purpose, and perhaps if the way I'm thinking is true, could be the perfect counter-example to Boing's ideology.

On the other hand I could be full of crap.

The problem with directly contradicting her with examples of ponies that, apparently, weren't just out for themselves is... she would either not believe the stories, or not believe she'd heard the whole truth. There's no way to prove what was going on in another pony's head. She'd probably say as much and that I was deluded to think otherwise.
I would be approaching the entire conversation with her expecting that my convincing her to not think the way she does was in my best interest. Because it'd make me feel good and I, being scum, would likely be willing to lie.
When you're facing that sort of barrier to winning her trust you can't really address a belief like that head-on. Maybe if and when she would be willing to believe me, but I'd rather take it one step at a time and, again, see where the conversation went.

This thing with Boing has gotten me thinking. The problem with Boing is that she's been in the shit, and by the shit I mean the minute to minute fight for survival you only get in the war zones. As the wasteland is one giant free for all war zone with the added fun of taint and radiation Boing has never known peace. From what it sounds like Boing was never in Chapel long. Just long enough to refit and go back out. She's been fighting her entire life, fighting to survive, fighting for a place for herself. And when she found one in the crusaders and even made a friend she's still ruthless to everyone else. And losing her one friend did nothing to help her doom and gloom thinking. So the best way to counter that? Simple, throw the kitchen sink at her. She has nothing to do but sit and think when she's recovering so you try every method you think will help without it shutting her off your words.

Point to her inexperience, how can she claim such great knowledge? Was she alive for the world that was? Did she hear the soft words of Celestia with her own ears? Did she see harmony when it was at it's strongest? To the world that is, has she heard the dull hum of Fillydelphia and hundreds of thousands of ponies labor, the quiet threat of the whispering wood? Has she traveled Manhattans rails to see Tenpony Tower and the richness and splendor it has. Has the little filly been to sea where the only sound are the waves and the only sight the wide open world and that glorious blue sky? Or have you little filly lived all your life in what all regard as the worst place in the entire wasteland. Hoofington where even streets hate you and all that lives. Where healing potions that have survived two centuries spoil in hours. Where the food taste of nothing but the ashes of the dead. You who have seen nothing of this world are all ready to declare it fundamentally corrupt and empty of all happiness?

She's a little filly, a capable one but ignorant of the wonders and horrors of the world. She needs to open her eyes and stop assuming because she is right, assuming things gets you killed. But that works both ways and she ignores that side of things.


That's how I say it, because the OTHER possibility is that Boing is pre-raider. She was raped repeatably by raiders after all and has been out and surviving on who knows what up until now. In which case arguments are not going to reach her as paranoia is one of the first signs as I recall.

[OneMoreDaySK]

Spoiler:

To me, she's kinda in the same hopelessness as Murky right now, except throw in some friends who are still alive. Sure she's not a slave or anything, but is freedom worth the lack of friends. That's exactly what she needs right now I feel. Someone who's willing to help her get back on her feet. Maybe in an alternate timeline methinks Tulip might be able to help with that. but now, not even Blackjack can do that. [silly] OC INTRO GO! FIXER SUE ACTIVATE! [/silly]

[Ketchup]

Um. Sorry to bother y'all, but could anyone care to help me out? Ah need some people to take a Myers-Brigg survey for my Comp Sci class to collect data before the stroke of midnight (Professor is dramatic like that). Enter a username, fill out the quiz, and then submit the profile. Thanks in advance. Here's the link.

INTJ, not INFP or INTP like I got last time I took it, about 9 months ago. I am not a judgmental person, not of others anyway.

[OBS.GS.§S]

Spoiler:

I suppose you're right, she probably either wouldn't believe the stories about ponies in pre-apocalypse equestria, or just point out how the world still blew up anyway. We'd have to gain her trust first somehow before there would even be a possibility of her believing those stories.

As for the memory orb shop idea, that's actually pretty brilliant and now that I think about it I'm surprised we haven't found "Joe Schmoes house of happy dreams" yet. Although I think the reason behind that is that memory orbs, especially ones that both contain a memory and are happy, are very rare, though if I remember correctly, blackjack or somebody bought some blank memory orbs from charity or someone at somepoint (my memory is really foggy on the matter.) and I'm not sure, but I think there was another instance where either she or littlepip bought a memory orb that wasn't empty from a merchant, maybe they both did.

Anyone else ever have the problem of having the events from PH and the original FoE mesh together in their head?
It's rather disorienting.

EDIT: We still haven't found that important detail Hinds said we missed in the chapter, have we?

[Kippershy]

Spoiler:

I suppose you're right, she probably either wouldn't believe the stories about ponies in pre-apocalypse equestria, or just point out how the world still blew up anyway. We'd have to gain her trust first somehow before there would even be a possibility of her believing those stories.

As for the memory orb shop idea, that's actually pretty brilliant and now that I think about it I'm surprised we haven't found "Joe Schmoes house of happy dreams" yet. Although I think the reason behind that is that memory orbs, especially ones that both contain a memory and are happy, are very rare, though if I remember correctly, blackjack or somebody bought some blank memory orbs from charity or someone at somepoint (my memory is really foggy on the matter.) and I'm not sure, but I think there was another instance where either she or littlepip bought a memory orb that wasn't empty from a merchant, maybe they both did.

Anyone else ever have the problem of having the events from PH and the original FoE mesh together in their head?
It's rather disorienting.

EDIT: We still haven't found that important detail Hinds said we missed in the chapter, have we?

Wow, your memory really is... something.

Yes, Blackjack bought some blank memory orbs from Charity back in chapter 50 so she could go into Rampages mind and take the memories out, put them in orbs and allow her to see the final moments of the zebra inside of her.
(and if her plan continues, each of the other personalities too.)

[OBS.GS.§S]

Spoiler:

Wow, your memory really is... something.

Yes, Blackjack bought some blank memory orbs from Charity back in chapter 50 so she could go into Rampages mind and take the memories out, put them in orbs and allow her to see the final moments of the zebra inside of her.
(and if her plan continues, each of the other personalities too.)

I am the smrt S-M-R-T

I may have issues remembering what I've had for breakfast, but I once took an I.Q. test online, and when I was done it said I was really really smart and the site said they would give me a grant for $1000 if I gave them my Name, Age, and Social Security number.

So yea.

Edit: I r Double smrt!

[O. Hinds]

EDIT: We still haven't found that important detail Hinds said we missed in the chapter, have we?

Well, someone asked me to point it out in a spoiler, which I did, and then there was some debate over whether my interpretation of the wording is actually the only valid one.

[Ironmonger]

Dear Princess Celestia,

Today I learned that while being out with my friends, the Nerd Herd, migrating across Milford Ohio in search of new grazing grounds for three hours, three miles of walking and humongous twisting hills that I have to climb to get back to my extraction point do not mix.

Blow it out your ass. Or something...or how about you fuck as in off.

Sincerely, the avatar of the Iron God.

PS: None of this is your fault, but I still blame it on you. Because Mexico.

[Admiral Stoic Rum]

Iron sounds like you're being a pansy

[OneMoreDaySK]

Not everyone can do stuff like that, Rum.
Maybe I could, but I live a sheltered life.
My cousin definitely could. He climbs mountains during the weekends.
He's awesome like that. <a href="http://jt-adventure-art.blogspot.com/">Linky</a>

[Stringtheory]

Dear Princess Celestia,

Today I learned that while being out with my friends, the Nerd Herd, migrating across Milford Ohio in search of new grazing grounds for three hours, three miles of walking and humongous twisting hills that I have to climb to get back to my extraction point do not mix.

Blow it out your ass. Or something...or how about you fuck as in off.

Sincerely, the avatar of the Iron God.

PS: None of this is your fault, but I still blame it on you. Because Mexico.

um, what?

[Cptadder]

Dear Princess Celestia,

Today I learned that while being out with my friends, the Nerd Herd, migrating across Milford Ohio in search of new grazing grounds for three hours, three miles of walking and humongous twisting hills that I have to climb to get back to my extraction point do not mix.

Blow it out your ass. Or something...or how about you fuck as in off.

Sincerely, the avatar of the Iron God.

PS: None of this is your fault, but I still blame it on you. Because Mexico.

um, what?

First off woah, I know exactly where Ironmonger is talking about as I used to live there. In Blue Ash now.
Second Stringtheory he went on a trip, Indian Creek state Park, Stonelick or East Fork, one of the bigger nature preserves and went into the brush for over three miles... then had to turn around and come BACK three miles which sucks.

And he was hoping to avoid the walk back by getting sent to the moon instead, thus the second to last line.

[222222]

Only three miles? That's pretty weak sauce, not going to lie here. Even with hills. I have to back Rum on this, it's time for you to cowboy up cupcake.
(Totally kidding, depending on just how hilly it actually was that might be a tough trip. Might be.)

[Admiral Stoic Rum]

Ahh, great to have some back up Erumpet...

Honestly ya baby, if youhad a 90 lb pack with full body armor and weapons load-out then I will hear your complaints and forward them to the trash bin with a sigh of empathy. I doubt you had this, so suck it up. OORA!

[Ketchup]

I went on a hiking trip about 5 or so years ago that was 8 kilometers, and 6 miles is close to ten kilometers, so I have some idea of the length. I probably could barely do it now, and it was a pretty hard hike back then when I was in better shape. The trail involved many hills through a forest, and the scenery was unparalleled at that point in my life with several waterfalls and such.

[Kippershy]

I'm with Admiral.

I used to walk 3.5 miles just to get to work on the night shift, even on days when it would piss down with rain half way through without warning so no umbrella, up slops and then do a whole night-shift and come back the same route which also had up-hill parts on the way back -- AND all tis while working a 2 nights 3 days week with only one day transition between the swap for a good few months... all without complaining.



That's 7 miles, often in the rain.
Working a night shift alone and being expected to manage what requires 2 people by myself, not getting lunch and still failing.
Little sleep between night / day swaps.
Every day for months.



a three mile each way trip as a once off is fuck all.

[Stringtheory]

*snip*

um, wow, you actually have a legit 'I had to walk uphill both ways...' story

feel free to use it to belittle us whenever you feel it's necessary

[Kippershy]

*snip*

um, wow, you actually have a legit 'I had to walk uphill both ways...' story

feel free to use it to belittle us whenever you feel it's necessary

Heh, that's the thing. not trying to belittle, but in this case, it needed to be said.

[Ketchup]

Mind you, a long hike is not necessarily the same as a long walk. Obstacles and terrain irregularities can make it significantly harder to walk on nature trails and the like when compared to roads.

Though I'm not really one to talk about long distance commutes. My shins become stiff and burn after a 1.4 km fastwalk home from the school I go to. When doing so in the morning they don't do that, so it's probably from the commuting I do at the same pace around the school.
When I'm walking at a leisurely pace, I can walk much farther without this problem.

[O. Hinds]

So, quite a few stories that I've been following on FiMFiction updated, today, and, not having had much else I needed to do, I've read most of the updates. I think, though, that, after a while, my head got so full of words that some of them started spilling back out. So...

More Iffy Writing:

I think that happening to hear this was probably also an influence.


By the way, is no one here interested in that bridge stuff I posted? Or, on the subject of things I've posted that haven't had many responses, that political thing (though Cptadder, at least, did reply to that one)?


PS: Does anyone know what exactly these general download manager things that banner ads keep trying to convince me to get definitely not malware versions of are? I know that specific sites offer download managers for their own content, but every modern browser, as far as I know, can download things just fine by itself. I suspect that they might be entirely fictional, to be honest; it seems sometimes that at least 75% of online ads are at least spam and probably malware, even on good websites.

[OBS.GS.§S]

*snip*

The safest bet is to never click on ads, ever. Most, if not everything you might want to have software wise can be found through google and sites like Cnet and the like. If you're noticing you don't have access to the same content others do, just post about it and I'm sure someone smarter than me will help you set things straight.

To my experience, ads on the internet are 80% malware, 19.5% poorly designed third rate products, and 0.5% useful things. This is because most legitimate products that work well are able to find their way onto well known sites that specialize in that type of product due to the demand they create, the trash on the other hand, usually winds up on random, unrelated sites that need the money from hosting advertisements to pay the domain hosting fee.

I have no idea what exactly those general download manager things are though since I've never seen the banner ad for them, mainly because I ignore ads in general.
__________

As for the political thing, politics aren't my strong suit and don't really interest me unless it's something that affects a vital aspect of my lifestyle, like SOPA was trying to.
__________

I'm interested in your ideas, I just probably haven't been around when you posted them or I wasn't knowledgeable on the subject to contribute worthwhile feedback. I vaguely remember something about a train idea you had a long time ago, and the reason I didn't comment on it was because I wasn't able to understand what I was looking at due to my lack of knowledge. Also I think that was during the time where I was being overloaded by life and was hopelessly unorganized.

If you want though, I can try to comment on your ideas more often, even if it's just a "That's a neat concept" or "It looks heavy".
__________

Also, I liked that little scene you wrote with the zebra pilot, for constructive criticism I think the line

"I'd carefully inspected the spotless canopy myself before this flight,
but, as always, I still wanted to open it. I didn't, of course, as
always;"

would benefit from cutting the second "as always" as it would still convey the same message and make it flow better, in my opinion. Overall though I got the general idea and mood of the scene, I enjoyed it.

[Kippershy]

>That feel when I use Project Horizons as a tool to learn how to properly format my own story...

Damn I feel like a cheater right now, but it's surprising that I never took note of this rule before.
Eugh... it's going to take forever to edit all my work to follow proper formatting, when I do so.

[Ironmonger]

I've done a bit of rethinking on my from post last night. I was extremely tired and I think I still had wee bit of pain medicine in my system...so yeah. Anyway the friend I asked about the rough estimate of our distance was coming from a guy who likely wasn't paying attention, my rough estimate is 3.5-5 miles. I was running on 5 hours of sleep, we ran some short distances, I'm not that used to walking and the hills wound back on themselves like a right-angle. I'd been just dandy if it weren't a damn hill. All said I think I did pretty well considering my condition, would have tolerated it more/went farther if I were in better shape.

EDIT: I don't complain about stuff unless I'm really, really surprised about it. Most of the time I keep my mouth shut. Didn't mean to annoy anyone. And after some calculations, this was over 8 miles. Whoa, we were way off.

[O. Hinds]

*snip*

The safest bet is to never click on ads, ever. Most, if not everything you might want to have software wise can be found through google and sites like Cnet and the like. If you're noticing you don't have access to the same content others do, just post about it and I'm sure someone smarter than me will help you set things straight.

To my experience, ads on the internet are 80% malware, 19.5% poorly designed third rate products, and 0.5% useful things. This is because most legitimate products that work well are able to find their way onto well known sites that specialize in that type of product due to the demand they create, the trash on the other hand, usually winds up on random, unrelated sites that need the money from hosting advertisements to pay the domain hosting fee.

I have no idea what exactly those general download manager things are though since I've never seen the banner ad for them, mainly because I ignore ads in general.

Yeah, that's pretty much my policy. I just happened to last night look up and think "What exactly is this thing that this fake Windows message box is claiming to let me download?"

As for the political thing, politics aren't my strong suit and don't really interest me unless it's something that affects a vital aspect of my lifestyle, like SOPA was trying to.

Well, you do live in the United States, so... I don't really see how the state of the US government doesn't affect you, but it's not as if I can force you to do anything about it.

I'm interested in your ideas, I just probably haven't been around when you posted them or I wasn't knowledgeable on the subject to contribute worthwhile feedback. I vaguely remember something about a train idea you had a long time ago, and the reason I didn't comment on it was because I wasn't able to understand what I was looking at due to my lack of knowledge. Also I think that was during the time where I was being overloaded by life and was hopelessly unorganized.

If you want though, I can try to comment on your ideas more often, even if it's just a "That's a neat concept" or "It looks heavy".

Eh, it's fine. I realize that this sort of thing is in some circles a relatively esoteric interest.

Also, I liked that little scene you wrote with the zebra pilot, for constructive criticism I think the line

"I'd carefully inspected the spotless canopy myself before this flight,
but, as always, I still wanted to open it. I didn't, of course, as
always;"

would benefit from cutting the second "as always" as it would still convey the same message and make it flow better, in my opinion. Overall though I got the general idea and mood of the scene, I enjoyed it.

Oh, thanks. I think that cutting that would change the meaning a bit, though (not that it matters all that much; I've not even decided if I'm going to keep a copy of this yet).

[222222]

@Ironmonger: I can only speak for myself, but I was just giving you a hard time. I didn't mean anything by it.
@O.Hinds:
Bridge: well I really am not qualified to speak on the subject, but that's never stopped me before. So to me this bridge seems like a pretty massive undertaking for such a fledgling society to be building as a double redundancy. I mean they already have air and sea travel, land travel would be nice but not necessary. That being said, I'm not actually sure how difficult or feasible building the bridge would actually be, so I can't help you there.
Politicthing: I'm not 18 so I probably can't do anything helpful, not being an actual human being yet, but if that's not a requirement, sorry I didn't check, I'd be happy to put my name on a list of people for change. No money giving though, sorry.

[O. Hinds]

@O.Hinds:
Bridge: well I really am not qualified to speak on the subject, but that's never stopped me before. So to me this bridge seems like a pretty massive undertaking for such a fledgling society to be building as a double redundancy. I mean they already have air and sea travel, land travel would be nice but not necessary. That being said, I'm not actually sure how difficult or feasible building the bridge would actually be, so I can't help you there.
Politicthing: I'm not 18 so I probably can't do anything helpful, not being an actual human being yet, but if that's not a requirement, sorry I didn't check, I'd be happy to put my name on a list of people for change. No money giving though, sorry.

Well, in large part, it's building for the future. There's also an anticipation that having the bridge and the rail line will bring traffic and development, and the construction will be something for industry to do and a cause for it to be further built up. And, of course, there's political benefit.

I don't recall seeing an age requirement. I might be wrong, but you might want to check.

[222222]

First of all I signed up to change America Hinds, so I s'pose just keep me up to date then eh.
Secondly, I can see the bridge being built for rail lines a lot easier than just for walking, I don't know why I didn't think trains before. So yeah with trains it does seem like a practical idea, but as I said before I don't know if actually building the bridge is possible, but with the supports in place, attaching them should be fairly simple. Just add pylons right?

[Ironmonger]

Fun Idea: Imagine the buffalo tribes started worshiping Khorne.

[Kippershy]

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