Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

[Vinylshadow]

Glowing Whisper:

Meh, I think too much

Nothing like a wild party where ponies discuss babies and fellatio before you die to amuse a pony...

[Vexd]

Glowing Whisper:

Meh, I think too much

Nothing like a wild party where ponies discuss babies and fellatio before you die to amuse a pony...

Well, you never know

but to be honest:

That being said, did Whisper and Goldenblood interact any in this chapter, or are they putting family issues on hold until the crisis is over? (if they did, I must have buzzed over it too fast)

[Vinylshadow]

GB didn't go to the party (although Blackjack did drag him back at the end of the chapter)

[O. Hinds]

re the picture:
Okay then.

*hugs Somber very gently* It's not a horrible chapter at all.  I really do hope things get better for you, sir, and I hope 71 doesn't cause as much trouble.

Chapter 70 Commentary:

Ah, thank you.

"I gave back your son's rifle!" - Oh, the Highlanders? I guess I hadn't expected that because they were mentioned as being at the summit.

They were? Hm, yes. Shoot.

"'I noticed there weren’t many Highlanders at the meeting,' I said to Blue Belle." - I guess this covers that though, also, I think this "Bluebelle" needs to be corrected to one word.

Ah, right. Whew. I've tweaked 69 a bit to make it clearer that the group is a small one anyway, though.
You're also correct about the typo; thanks.

"Diamond Tiara... That filly had serious flank issues." - This combined with the alicorn following Velvet around so much makes me wonder who she is, especially since Velvet tends to sing a lot of Sweetie Belle songs.

I wondered that too. Somber didn't give me much of an answer when I asked, either; he just pointed out that it could have a wide variety of ponies from Ponyville. :)

It immediately made me want to draw it, but then almost immediately after reconsider that I shouldn't...

…Aaaaand now that you've said that, the images are popping into my head. :)

"The ghouls Windclop the mayor" - This might need a comma after "ghouls", or something.

Hm… It's a bit awkward, yes, but it seems to me to be grammatically correct. I don't have any ideas for improving it at the moment, unfortunately.

Scotch exploring her sexuality really doesn't bother me at all, as long as everything is consensual and everypony is enjoying themselves... But then, I'm a horrible person who approves of all kinds of distasteful things, so my opinion on this really doesn't matter.

Well, I agree that there's mutual informed consent here, so there's that.

[WavemasterRyx]

"Diamond Tiara...  That filly had serious flank issues." - This combined with the alicorn following Velvet around so much makes me wonder who she is, especially since Velvet tends to sing a lot of Sweetie Belle songs.

It sounds like you're suggesting a CMC, but their corpses are all accounted for. Given that alicornication turns the subject female, we really have no idea whatsoever who this might be, except that they're from Ponyville and a contemporary of the CMCs. Could be any of the fillies and colts we saw during Luna Eclipsed and Twilight Time, really...

Ah, yeah it does sound like I was suggesting a CMC, but I am well aware they were all accounted for, so honestly I have no idea what I was suggesting...  Probably wondering if it might be Babs, but there were no real indications specifically in favor of that.

I wondered that too.  Somber didn't give me much of an answer when I asked, either; he just pointed out that it could have a wide variety of ponies from Ponyville.  :)

Yeah, it could easily be any of the fillies or colts from Luna Eclipsed, Twilight Time, or Call of the Cutie.  Can't have an answer for everything, after all... like Buttercup's final words...

Ah, thank you.

"I gave back your son's rifle!" - Oh, the Highlanders?  I guess I hadn't expected that because they were mentioned as being at the summit.

They were?  Hm, yes.  Shoot.

"'I noticed there weren’t many Highlanders at the meeting,' I said to Blue Belle." - I guess this covers that though, also, I think this "Bluebelle" needs to be corrected to one word.

Ah, right.  Whew.  I've tweaked 69 a bit to make it clearer that the group is a small one anyway, though.
You're also correct about the typo; thanks.

*nuzzles just barely*

The Highlanders' bit was really just a small thing, so I wasn't sure if it was really important to be "corrected" or not, but if you're happier with it now, that's good.

…Aaaaand now that you've said that, the images are popping into my head.  :)

Ah, sorry...

"The ghouls Windclop the mayor" - This might need a comma after "ghouls", or something.

Hm…  It's a bit awkward, yes, but it seems to me to be grammatically correct.  I don't have any ideas for improving it at the moment, unfortunately.

Well I wasn't sure if it was supposed to be meaning that there were "ghouls and their mayor" or just "the mayor of the ghouls" singularly, that's why I was wondering about it.  If you're satisfied with how it is though, then I won't worry about it.

Well, I agree that there's mutual informed consent here, so there's that.

Yeah, if there hadn't been consent I'm sure P-21 would have taken care of it.

I don't follow what is being said here.
What is it about Velvet singing those that has to do with the alicorn?

Just the implication that one of the ponies comprising that alicorn had some connection to Sweetie Belle, to where Velvet singing her songs would be significant to them in some way.  Nothing really important...

[Vinylshadow]

...Button Mash is an Alicorn?

[WavemasterRyx]

Given Somber's integration of Velvet from the tumblr (the ghoul that made the underwear), I'll go ahead and assume that's Button Mash, 'cause that'd be hilarious.
...and, given I'm an editor, assuming Somber really didn't have a particular pony in mind, I'll just have to see if I can sneak a video game reference in for "her"...

Ah, I always forget about Button... yeah that could certainly be a possibility.

[Vinylshadow]

...

Whatever works, I guess

Button's Mother was the sexy poster pony for recruitment posters

[SilentCarto]

It could be Babs.

Ehh... for all that Babs spent a couple of days in Tiara's company, I don't think she'd think of her as a nemesis. Babs's nemesis would be Tiara's equivalent from Manehattan.

But The Goddess only took in unicorns for conversion

Not so. Red Eye thought the alicorns she created couldn't penetrate the SPP shield because their templates were were all unicorns, but she converted members of all tribes. Doctor Glue noted:

The fourth stage involves underlying physiological changes in preparation for the fifth and final stage: complete metamorphosis. For example, the pony’s body and mind begin to grow the necessary neurological structures that will allow the pony to utilize the new horn and/or wings that the final stage will bestow, as well as other substructure changes in support of the less obvious but more radical alterations that accompany becoming a fucking alicorn.

He wouldn't need that "and/or" if the target was only going to grow wings. Red Eye was collecting unicorns in specific because he wanted one of each, and he already had himself and thought he could convince Autumn, but he needed a strong-willed unicorn.

I'll go ahead and assume that's Button Mash, 'cause that'd be hilarious.

Headcanoned!

[Somber]

Thank you so much everyone.  Work... bah... what is it good for, except paying the bills.  I'm glad the chapter went much better than I anticipated.  It's all down here from here for the finale.  So... I'm glad folks are happy.  I know some folks find some things in the story debatable and questionable and I apologize for that.  Like I said, some day I'll have a SO and work all that out before hand.

As for the alicorn... I'll never tell.  :3

Thanks for the commentary.  I really appreciate it.  It tells me the points that I hit well and the points that made me go 'darn, screwed that up.'

[JadedPony]

...Button Mash is an Alicorn?

Now we just need to get that Alicorn behind the controls of one of the enemy air-ship's guns and it's all over.

[Vexd]

His/Her(?) first aim once this is all over will be to try and reintroduce video games to the wastes

Possible Second Goal:

[Meleagridis]

I wasn't going to do a reading review until Thrush made me laugh, so I figured what the heck. Now to catch up on the thread.

still really short:

possible editing error?:

dashed this together:

[JadedPony]

Plan B is for: Button Mash

[JadedPony]

What accent does Bronode hate?

I swear I read this name like 7 times before I realized it wasn't saying Brondo. That movie had the best advertising for an imaginary product ever. 

Brawndo:

[DaWarWolf]

Has anyone watched AnYpony's PH 70 disscusion on youtube?
He brought up points I wish I could answer but I am to lazy to find ch#

[SilentCarto]

when did Thrush turn into Cpt. Sparrow?

A thrush is a small brown bird.
A sparrow is a small brown bird.

In other words, basically as soon as she was written.

lily-livered hiss-pots

That made me laugh.

"Activating private conversation! Volume error!" shouted Cerberus, turning to face the filly and hovering closer to the ground.

And that.  

and even met P3T-E, the robot from the radio

What's this a reference to?

[JadedPony]

when did Thrush turn into Cpt. Sparrow?

A thrush is a small brown bird.
A sparrow is a small brown bird.

In other words, basically as soon as she was written.

She is the daughter of a sea Cpt that I think was based on Sparrow.

[O. Hinds]

possible editing error?:

Ah, yes, thank you.

dashed this together:

:D
Nice to have more of your writing. :)

[JadedPony]

Has anyone watched AnYpony's PH 70 disscusion on youtube?
He brought up points I wish I could answer but I am to lazy to find ch#

To be blunt about it, AnY Pony has a stick up his plot. Anything that has sex in it or graphic violence in it, he degrades it in a very passive aggressive way. He keeps advising people to do things the way he wants them to be done and acts like anything that doesn't meet his ideal is substandard. He is kind of a douche like that. 

He'll say things that sound like he is trying to say something nice but it's still insulting like in his review of horizons he talks about how people don't like that Somber is making up all this history of things that happened just before and after the war and how "People" think the story is over the top and too much like an anime to which he adds, "If you don't mind that kind of thing then it's a good fiction but if you do, you should avoid it." and he'll say things like that all through the video. He's finding reasons to make blanket statements that discourage people from ever even trying to read it. 

It's like saying, "If you don't mind getting shot at then living in a big city is fine!" as if everyone in every city is going to be shot at, at some point.

He says that "People" again invoking a majority that I have never seen any evidence of, think that KKat is upset with Sombra about how the story unfolded then goes on about how he thinks it's untrue and if it is true that KKat should learn to live with it because no one will ever be able to live up to KKat's headcanon but KKat doing the writing. 

It's like saying, "I heard that scientists think the earth is going to end in 2015 because of the YellowStone Super-Volcano, but I don't agree with those scientists." if you don't think it's true, then don't freaking talk about it. The only reason you say things like that is because you want to stir up drama you passive-aggressive asshat.  

He complains about how everything is over the top, how too many pony come to aid Blackjack and stuff. I'm like, you know the theme of the world is Friendship is magic, the whole point of the show, the theme of the entire world is that working together makes greater change. For good or bad, working together is the point of pony kind. They are a herd culture. 

I have never even heard of Vector Brony but he has a promising career as a talking head for Fox News if he ever wants to get into TV. His contribution to the conversation was 99% saying, "Yep, yes, yep, oh yeah, yep, yes, I agree, you know what this reminds me of? That thing that makes your point seem more valid because I'm only here to agree with you!"

[Vinylshadow]

Nobody's perfect

[Meleagridis]

when did Thrush turn into Cpt. Sparrow?

A thrush is a small brown bird.
A sparrow is a small brown bird.

In other words, basically as soon as she was written.

Oh, gawd dammit!
...I love this story.
Speaking of puns...

Also to see if any of the jokes, gags and puns I put forth that go in actually make anyone laugh.. not that the vast, vast majority of the funny stuff isn't all Somber..

You’re behind Absolutely Everything Too and the Stupid Comments Jar, right? I’ve noticed an increase in silly little things like that and I’m loving it.

What's this a reference to?

Uh… just some dumb nerd’s first ever fanfic attempt. Misspelled, naturally.

I don't think Rampage is Peppermint.
The memory she had... it followed the talisman. It wasn't Peppermint's memory. If it was, there wouldn't have been a break when the talisman left Twist and entered Peppermint.
What happened there was some kinda momentary sensory deprivation as the talisman was no longer connected to a host and able to see, hear, etc.

I don't know what exactly this means, to be honest. Peppermint, if Rampage was Peppermint, should have had access to that entire memory from her own mind. She doesn't, though. She just has this fragmented thing that starts as Twist's and ends as Peppermint's.
It makes me feel like the Phoenix Talisman is actually replacing the pony. With each transfer its personality is rewritten to conform to its host, but it personally retains an unbroken memory of its entire existence. Rampage could potentially remember when "she" was Dr. Octopus, then. Or the angel or the policemare. Remember each transfer, her life when she was them, all the way back to when she was first put inside a pony.

Bottom line, though, is that Rampage isn't Peppermint. She is the Phoenix Talisman.

Oh crap, this makes a lot of sense. This also does not bode well for Rampage. Something tells me it would just make her feel even less like a person to know that she’s the product of a soul jar, or a gestalt entity, or whatever else this implies.

As for the alicorn... I'll never tell.  :3

Of course! It’s Anja. Or Xander.

[Vinylshadow]

Somber saying "I'll never tell" just means "It's whatever you want it to be"

So sure, Velvet's Alicorn stalker is Button Mash, even though it's highly improbable he was ever drafted as a test subject

[JadedPony]

She is Peppermint. Remember, she said she was told that she was originally found by a ghoul while being pinned under a tank. That ghoul must have been someone her mothers knew, a unicorn, who erased her memory but put the copy in a place where she could find it if she ever came looking for her past. The ghoul in question most likely planned on telling her where to find the truth once she was more mature but then got killed. After all, when the ghoul first found her, she still had the mind of a filly. 

We have ample evidence of this: 

If she wasn't intended to be a filly all along she wouldn't have reverted to a child when she got disintegrated.  
She said that having your memories removed may help you forget why you feel things, but it leaves a hole and not knowing is bad. This is shown when she paid hookers in Flank to hold her and let her cry sobbing about how sorry she was to her mother even though she didn't remember why she was sorry.


She must have been saved by someone who tried to take her pain away with a recolector or a unicorn ghoul, someone who knew her and or her mother. I would say Vanity could have done it but he was engaged elsewhere when the world ended. 


The talisman was passed from her Zebra mother, to Twist, to her once Blackjack gets a recolector on Rampage and she sees the truth, hopefully the family's personalities will strike a harmony of clarity and balance her out. I can't imagine her wanting to die with a heart full of love from two mothers and her forgiven by her friends. 


Now, on to the mystery of the Alicorn! I know there was an editorial decision made but just for funzies, consider this: Miss Cheerilee.

[Guest]

Before I start I don't know who the hell this guy is, I've never watched his videos.

"If you don't mind that kind of thing then it's a good fiction but if you do, you should avoid it." and he'll say things like that all through the video. He's finding reasons to make blanket statements that discourage people from ever even trying to read it.

If that is in fact a quote and not you paraphrasing what's wrong with that statement? PH does have anime like moments and if they bother you investing 70 hours (It's more for me but I didn't time myself and Somber says it take him an hour to read a chapter of PH so I'm gonna use his estimate) into this story is probably not a good idea. 

It's like saying, "If you don't mind getting shot at then living in a big city is fine!" as if everyone in every city is going to be shot at, at some point.

You do realize that events in the story don't change, right? We all read the same story. These events will happen the same for everyone. You might feel differently about them. but they will always be the same. Unless Somber trims part of the story out after it's finished. This is a bad comparison.

He says that "People" again invoking a majority that I have never seen any evidence of,

The word "People" does not imply majority unless it has the word "most" in front of it.

think that KKat is upset with Sombra about how the story unfolded then goes on about how he thinks it's untrue and if it is true that KKat should learn to live with it because no one will ever be able to live up to KKat's headcanon but KKat doing the writing.

Kkat stopped reading at chapter 16, I'm sure some people did interpret that as Kkat not liking the story or not liking where the story was going. He didn't say "I think" did he? If he did that that's what you should have wrote. And if he likes Kkat more so what? That's his opinion who cares? 

It's like saying, "I heard that scientists think the earth is going to end in 2015 because of the YellowStone Super-Volcano, but I don't agree with those scientists." if you don't think it's true, then don't freaking talk about it. The only reason you say things like that is because you want to stir up drama you passive-aggressive asshat.

Was that the title of the video? "Kkat hates PH" If it was then he's click baiting. But I'm going to assume it wasn't. Again I haven't watched the video, but I'd think if people were saying that it'd helpful for someone to say that's not the way it is. If I was researching the story to see if I'd be interested in it and saw people saying Kkat didn't like it then I wouldn't wanna read it. In this case if that kind of reader came across this video saw that and then heard this guy saying that's not the way it is then Somber might get another reader. 

He complains about how everything is over the top, how too many pony come to aid Blackjack and stuff. I'm like, you know the theme of the world is Friendship is magic, the whole point of the show, the theme of the entire world is that working together makes greater change. For good or bad, working together is the point of pony kind. They are a herd culture.

Sometimes it is over the top. If that bothers you then PH isn't story to invest that kind of time into. Those people who don't enjoy that are better off spending their time elsewhere. It's useful information to give to potential readers.

I have never even heard of Vector Brony but he has a promising career as a talking head for Fox News if he ever wants to get into TV. His contribution to the conversation was 99% saying, "Yep, yes, yep, oh yeah, yep, yes, I agree, you know what this reminds me of? That thing that makes your point seem more valid because I'm only here to agree with you!"

If that was what was going on it does sound stupid, but you've kind of exagerated everything else to seem like an attack against Somber or the story. So, not quite sure I believe it.


Again, I haven't watched the video but if these are the worst things he did then I don't really see an issue. I'm not sure but it almost seems as if you'd prefer Somber have dozens more readers that only read PH because someone misrepresented it to them. Honestly some of that stuff is what I'd expect to see a review or critque.

[O. Hinds]

Uh… just some dumb nerd’s first ever fanfic attempt. Misspelled, naturally.

I thought that it was a FoNV reference?
Ooh, or are you saying that you wrote a fic that used that?

That ghoul must have been someone her mothers knew, a unicorn, who erased her memory but put the copy in a place where she could find it if she ever came looking for her past. The ghoul in question most likely planned on telling her where to find the truth once she was more mature but then got killed.

…Um.  Do you… not remember what those ghouls did after they found her?  And I don't think we ever heard of them getting killed.

“You don’t know who you are or what you are?” I asked softly.
She looked pissed, but finally slumped as she said softly, “My earliest memory was a while ago.  Some ghouls found me in the Miramare crater with half a tank lodged in my skull.  They must have thought I was a ghoul like them because they pulled me out.  Surprise surprise when I had a pulse.  I was completely clueless.  They used me, then sold me to some pieces of shit that eventually founded Paradise.  After a few years I was sick of getting fucked and broke free.
“I drifted a little bit and found Scalpel when she was still a wandering medic with old Bonesaw.  Tried to figure me out.  Scalpel eventually found that heap of a healing booth, rigged the auto-doc and put down roots in Flank.  Bonesaw settled down in Megamart.  Me?  I ended up in Chapel when it was just me and a dumb colt wanting to fix up that stupid church of his.”
“You knew Priest?”  Something about my question make her smirk.
“Knew him?  I fucked him.”  That sent a slap through me, before she added with a chuckle, “Or I wanted to anyway.  We hung out together and found more kids; usually the young of ponies making the walk…”
“Pilgrims,” I muttered.
“Yeah, that’s what he called them.  Young colts and fillies, though… they’re tougher, haven’t been worn down as bad.  They stuck around rather than following their parents, and we formed the Crusaders together.”  She sighed softly.  “I always wished I could be one of them.”  I remembered what Scoodle had mentioned so many days back.
“Arloste…” I murmured, getting a sharp look.  “That’s your name.”
“It was a name Scalpel made up for me.  Before that I was ‘the fuckmare’,” she said sharply, then sighed and rolled her eyes.  “Arloste.  Are Lost.”  She shook her head.  “Eventually I got sick of it.  I wasn’t like him.  It… hurt… to be around him.  So I left.  Wandered around.  Crossed paths with a Reaper named Rampage.  She swore she could kill me twenty different ways.  I was only looking for one.  Turns out she was a lot squishier than me.  Big Daddy Reaper let me join.  Took her name and her armor… I was tired of Arloste.  Too many regrets.”
“And then Big Daddy sent you to me,” I said in conclusion.

I'm still thinking that she's the phoenix talisman, also.  Currently using Peppermint's body, yes, but not Peppermint.

[Guest]

It could just be Twist's memory, the moment the Phoenix talisman entered Peppermint's body was the moment Twist's soul left hers. I'm fairly certain all the souls in the Phoenix Talisman have memories from before they had it inside them.

[JadedPony]

That ghoul must have been someone her mothers knew, a unicorn, who erased her memory but put the copy in a place where she could find it if she ever came looking for her past. The ghoul in question most likely planned on telling her where to find the truth once she was more mature but then got killed.

…Um.  Do you… not remember what those ghouls did after they found her?  And I don't think we ever heard of them getting killed.

I'm saying a friendly ghoul found her, tried to help her by removing the memories of the memories, then locked them away but then that friendly ghoul was killed and she was sold into slavery. Remember, she only remembers the last 50 or so years, right? Like she doesn't remember the days after the bombs fell, she doesn't remember the radioactive death snow. She spent most of the history of the wasteland squashed under a tank. 

So at some point a helpful, good, ghoul/pony found her, as a very traumatized foal, removed her memories and hid them for her but then that good pony was most likely killed and she was sold into slavery, I'm assuming that the slavers didn't do it because why would they care enough to hide her memories to be found later?

[JadedPony]

Before I start I don't know who the hell this guy is, I've never watched his videos.

My point was, he while saying all throughout the video, that he likes project Horizons, keeps discouraging people from even trying it. It's like Fox News' policy of, "We're patriotic Americans who support America! We just hate the president and everything he does so we support shutting down the government!" It's being a hypocrite and what is worse is that he uses vague, sweeping statements to do it. There is nothing wrong with critiquing a work, but at some point you cross the line from critique to just being a jerk when you start acting like the work is some huge controversial deal that you shouldn't read unless you are the hardest of the hard core.  The first two minutes of the video for example are him saying how he made videos on clop, homosexuality, and even zombie Twilight Sparkle and none of them were remotely as controversial as Project Horizons. That his comment section was a "Flame war" when he talked about it then in the next five minutes he goes on to list reasons not to like it, why if you haven't read it, you should avoid it, and all while saying he's a fan of it. 

Project Horizons is about as controversial as going to the dentist.

[Guest]

Okay, I watched the first ten minutes. Honestly Jaded, I think you're being sensitive. Ten minutes obviously might not be a full representation of an hour and thirty minute video, but at the very worst these guys seem to just be poking fun at PH. Same way I would about a TV show.

Also it's really clear that when he said controversial he meant in the context of his own videos. When he's talking about reviewing the story I'm certain he meant he was going to address that controversy.

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