Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

[Guest]

I don't think recommending alcohol to someone under mood-altering drugs is a really recommended thing. You know, risks of bad interactions and all the possible consequences.

  
I don't think guzzling large quantities of alcohol in general is recommended.

Thought the mention of BJ and alcohol made it pretty obvious Silent was joking and generally speaking prescriptions that are dangerous with alcohol say so somewhere on the bottle. So I'm sure Somber knows whether or not that's a good idea already.

Speaking of which hope things get better for you Somber.

[Lex4art]

I'm sorry, everyone.  I really wish I'd been able to focus on chapter 70.  I hoped to be able to grind it out.  I couldn't.  Had to take a cymbalta, which nukes my creativity (as well as many other things.  The fun of SSRI's.) and since I'm going to be gone weekend after next... sigh...

Take care! Btw, *imho* making an deadlines in creative process like writing can be constant source of negative emotions because good solutions can't be produced only by freewill; inspiration & ideas for current creative tasks comes in their own time; who can deal with it - can feel better :). Do you remember your own legend about good zebra, who attempts to help everyone and died because of emptying own resources - something weirdly similar now here ...

[Vinylshadow]

Deadlines?

Pftt, what are deadlines?

I run on a "It's done when it's done" approach

I was popular in school for that

[Somber]

Deadlines are what has gotten Horizons finished.  It's easy not to write.  It's easy to procrastinate.  It's easy to get distracted.  If I didn't use them, Horizons would have died long ago.  And I do not want Horizons to bleed to death through procrastination.

It would just help if I could get past writing these next horrible horrible scenes.

[JadedPony]

Horrible scenes? As in hard to write? If you need help let me know. I agree, it takes the time it takes shouldn't be stressing over it. If it doesn't feel right to you as a writer and you put it out into the world it will bug you until you are  . 

Ask yourself this: Is this hard to write because it's hard to see this happen to my characters or is this hard to write because I think the story could be better if something else happened? 

Remember: revision is the writer's best friend. Don't feel locked into an idea. If you are stuck free form some new approaches, take a shower, relax under the water and talk to yourself about it, out loud, like a crazy person. (All professional writing is the ability to use border line dissociative identity disorder for a good cause.)

[Vinylshadow]

Well, with that kind of reply, I'm sure 70 will leave us with a few raised eyebrows

*pets gently* Don't rush yourself

It's hard enough for me to hammer out a 14 page chapter once a week...

[JadedPony]

I've been trying to read Broken Accords but I'm struggling with it. I've enjoyed Somber's other work but reading Records has been a chore. Not because the story is bad but because of the formatting of the document. I think it would be an easier read if you went back and added some breaklines to spread out the text and make it less of a visual waterfall. 

Visual_Example:

[Vinylshadow]

I've had similar complaints about my earlier writing

Mostly fixed now though...

[Somber]

I redid http://www.fimfiction.net/story/204342/1/broken-accords/chapter-1-stormy-skies.  Is that more what you're looking for?  I can't really affect the format that much on that site.

[Vinylshadow]

I think it looks nice

[Somber]

Okay.  Thank you very much.  This is stuff I really need to know for when I import Horizons.

[O. Hinds]

I didn't actually notice the formatting, I'm afraid.

[JadedPony]

Yes, that is much better! The spaces are important. Think of them like the moment the camera switches from one person talking to the face of the next person talking. 

We need that space to give our brains the signal that a transition has taken place. Otherwise you have to stop and realize that someone new is talking and adjust. Often this involves re-reading the first part of the line. It interrupts the flow of reading. 

However, you can use a lack of spacing with short lines to indicate a rapid fire series of events. Spacing isn't always needed, it's a tool you can use to build suspense. 

Example: 

Continuum:

[Vinylshadow]

"Liber8"

harf-a-darf, clever

[JadedPony]

It's from the TV show Continuum. It's on Netflix. It's pretty timely now. When it was made no one really thought corporations could take over but now it's more and more likely. The main cop is fighting a anti-corporation terrorist group. The stories get more and more real every day.

I just wrote that as if I was someone watching the events transpiring in the first two minutes of the first episode of the show.

[Vinylshadow]

Oh, just you wait, we'll be living in a world ruled by big corporations soon enough

Better start practicing Parkour

[Icy Shake]

Yes, that is much better! The spaces are important. Think of them like the moment the camera switches from one person talking to the face of the next person talking.

We need that space to give our brains the signal that a transition has taken place. Otherwise you have to stop and realize that someone new is talking and adjust. Often this involves re-reading the first part of the line. It interrupts the flow of reading.

However, you can use a lack of spacing with short lines to indicate a rapid fire series of events. Spacing isn't always needed, it's a tool you can use to build suspense.

I tend to be of the opinion that spacing is primarily a tool for basic formatting/legibility. And, for the most part, better left to just an indentation. Yes, intratext spacing is important, but extra spaces are something I see as being for scene breaks, not paragraphs (again, that's what indentation is meant to signal). Now, that's partly, I think, because I go from a print-first mentality, where that works better since there tend to be narrower text columns in print than in desktop viewing, so you don't get lost as easily while your eyes are tracking back to the left. I've found that it's much easier to read with narrower columns, independent of paragraph spacing, which is a problem I have with Fimfiction since the desktop system doesn't seem to have a way of narrowing the portion of the screen the text fills.

Chapter Fifty Two Running Thoughts:

Chapter Fifty Two Overall Thoughts:

[Icy Shake]

Cont'd from previous post:

Chapter Fifty Two Editing:

Other Editing:

[O. Hinds]

@Icy Shake:
Ah, thank you very much as always.

I suggest rewording so that the second tag is applied to the second quotation instead.

I decided to go with a different fix; sorry.

One wonders why, in the present, she didn't try teaming up with him now that she only barely gives a shit about that kind of thing.

Well, for one thing, I doubt that either Cognitum or Red Eye would be particularly eager to share with the other. It would be a question of who'd betray the other first and when, not if there'd be a betrayal.

[Caoimhe]

Hullo, popping back in quickly just to say that I REALLY enjoy Braccords so far. Love the Sombrero writing style combined with a smaller grounded setting and smaller two character focus so far. Nifty. :D

[SilentCarto]

You reminded me of something I'd long wondered about... when did Dawn get so vindictive?

It was probably that time she tried to commit suicide and found Cognitum instead. She had literally given up hope of being able to save anyone, and then she found Cogs, who offered her a way to save... well, most of everyone. I'm not all that surprised she went fanatic.

Steel Rain was a tool, I think, in her view. In both senses. He was everything that's wrong with the Wasteland -- peace through power, power through firepower, and no interest in doing anything constructive with that power; he just wanted to use it to stoke his ego. His outlook is beautifully summed up in this quote:

"This is a one hundred and twenty millimeter anti-dragon cannon built to fire custom engineered concussion, armor penetration, and chemical rounds.  It has one hundred and seventy two perfectly engineered parts all manufactured of high strength alloyed steel infused with a magical repair matrix to maintain perfect operation at all times.  It has a precision range of over two miles at which shells will still impact with a force of five kilomacs. Do you really think that a gun like this should be left in a weapons locker to collect dust?"

He believed that weapons should be used simply because they exist. Not that they should be used as a last resort in the service of some greater cause. Even his fellow Steel Rangers understood that they were ensuring that dangerous technology stayed out of the hooves of those who would use it to destroy the world again. No doubt that's what fueled his rivalry with Crunchy Carrots.

Contrast that with Dawn. Misguided as she was, her core desire was to save the people of the Wasteland. She surely came to the conclusion that some elements would have to die for that to happen, but that's no different from BJ's "please don't make me kill you" attitude, but on the scale of social engineering. Her future had no place for someone like Steel Rain; no shock that she wouldn't shed a tear if he died to forward her dreams.

She's deluded about what she's become, unwilling to look back and accept how much worse she's making everything, but it's often struck me as odd how cruel and vindictive she is. I liked her as the mare she was when she was pretending to be one of the good guys. I figured that was her natural state.

I'm not sure she was deluded, though. She probably came to believe that she'd been too kind before; she gave up hope of saving everyone, and when she found hope again, she realized that was because not everyone could be saved. Society was sick, and certain people were a necrosis to be excised, not cured. The use of kill implants to enforce behavior is indicative of her thinking. She tried before to bring people together by appealing to their better natures; that failed because their worse natures dominate. The fear of death, then, can force people into the desired behaviors until they become habit, and later, the use of more extensive implants can fix their destructive impulses at the root and bring all ponykind together in peace and harmon-- er, monotony.

That's how I see her, anyway. I'm not saying she wasn't deluded about a lot of things, but I'm pretty sure she was entirely cognizant of what she'd become willing to do.

[Icy Shake]

Your seekers hounded me.  Steel Rain–”
Dawn suddenly straightened.  “Would it help if you could get revenge on him for what he did to you and your friends?”
“What?”  I blinked, lightning flashing and booming above me as I stared at her.

And this is what we call an "unforced error." Seriously, you come here trying to make a deal, and you don't even take the trouble of getting the basics of the mark right? After she's just gone through a whole thing about the evil shit you pulled, you want to double down? Yeah, you deserve to be fired. On the other hand, giving Cognitum's own later actions, maybe not getting or not caring about who Blackjack is is just a characteristic shared by that faction, if perhaps less so where Steel Rain is concerned.

“You said so yourself.  Steel Rain advised me to take it by force, and in the process wronged you.  If you like, you can take his place.”

Well, there's something of a common point between them, combined with a mirror image: where Blackjack doesn't/didn't like being responsible for things that needed to be done, Dawn won't accept responsibility for her actions; where you could basically see where the gears in Dawn's mind slipped so it wasn't her fault, you see the opposite of Blackjack's insistence that everything that goes wrong was her fault and the resultant guilt.

You reminded me of something I'd long wondered about... when did Dawn get so vindictive? When she was back when she wanted to save the wasteland with her friends she was the mediator, keeping them together and trying to save everyone anyway she could. She was the group's conscience and soul and they could no longer be heroes when she left them. She then went to the Enclave and worked with her husband to try and improve things there before going back down, abandoning her family for what she thought was the greater good.
She's deluded about what she's become, unwilling to look back and accept how much worse she's making everything, but it's often struck me as odd how cruel and vindictive she is. I liked her as the mare she was when she was pretending to be one of the good guys. I figured that was her natural state.
Does she have a special hatred of Steel Rain? Was she always the type to encourage suffering in the name of revenge? Or maybe she learned this behavior from Cognitum? Heck, could Cognitum be screaming these offers in her ears, demanding she voice them?

I think that in this case her near-eagerness could also be motivated by her jealousy with respect to Cognitum's attention and favor. Even with Steel Rain as a subordinate and adviser, to any extent Cognitum took notice of him Dawn may have seen him as a threat.

One wonders why, in the present, she didn't try teaming up with him now that she only barely gives a shit about that kind of thing.

Well, for one thing, I doubt that either Cognitum or Red Eye would be particularly eager to share with the other.  It would be a question of who'd betray the other first and when, not if there'd be a betrayal.

I could see that, potentially, but in each case it seems like they believe they can handle any potential betrayal by their pawns. They're both wrong, but especially in Cogs's case I have trouble seeing that as too much of an obstacle.

Where Dawn herself is concerned, I now think it might be as simple as not seeing a reason for it; Cognitum is better equipped to get what she wants, and has far more compelling vision of the future to offer than Red Eye, so why even bother?

[Vinylshadow]

Cogs has sheer power while Red Eye had...charisma, I guess?

You don't really say "No" to someone who can kill you from anywhere in the Wasteland

[Scienza]

So, I finally got caught up on PH. Oh my god, Chapter 69 was amazing. I'm incredibly excited, overjoyed, and I'm crying like a baby. Holy shit, those Glory moments... I love them but they make me so fucking sad because damn it, GloryJack 4ever. HOW DO YOU MAKE ME FEEL THESE FEELS, SOMBER?

More comments, notes, and general all-around fangushing:

I can't wait to see what Somber and the Editmen are preparing for 70. I haven't been this excited since the finale of the original FoE, and this time it looks like we're going to get an actual resolution. It's shaping up to be fantastic.

Now I just need to get caught up on the thread. I haven't been able to check it since before 68, so this should be a wild ride.

[Silver136]

So, I know this was a topic a while back, but my class is beginning the Epic of Gilgamesh, and I was reminded about blanks. Generally I wouldn't bring it up, but I remembered that Scotch had an implant from a blank. As Somber has told us, blanks don't age. Does that mean Scotch will grow up while her lungs remain the immature lings of a foal?

[Scienza]

Whisper's organs turned out fine, so I don't believe so.

[SilentCarto]

So, I know this was a topic a while back, but my class is beginning the Epic of Gilgamesh, and I was reminded about blanks. Generally I wouldn't bring it up, but I remembered that Scotch had an implant from a blank. As Somber has told us, blanks don't age. Does that mean Scotch will grow up while her lungs remain the immature lings of a foal?

Growth and senescence are not two ends of the same spectrum; they're very different processes. It's not at all odd to believe that cloned tissue could grow up but not grow old. After all, if there was no cellular replication and death going on, clones' skin would wear away in a matter of months. Most likely, either the normal cells will eventually replace all the cloned ones, or she'll live her whole life with lungs that are largely immune to cancer.

[Vinylshadow]

She should start smoking

Don't smoke, people, it's bad for you

[Train Dodger]

"This is a one hundred and twenty millimeter anti-dragon cannon built to fire custom engineered concussion, armor penetration, and chemical rounds.  It has one hundred and seventy two perfectly engineered parts all manufactured of high strength alloyed steel infused with a magical repair matrix to maintain perfect operation at all times.  It has a precision range of over two miles at which shells will still impact with a force of five kilomacs. Do you really think that a gun like this should be left in a weapons locker to collect dust?"

See, that's why I found it hard to believe that Deus's cannons were actually 122mm. That would make them bigger than Steel Rain's. Based on how they're depicted in-story, I somehow doubt that's the case. I don't know. I always pictured Deus's guns as autocannons. Like the gun on a Bradley or CV9040, only more compact.

[Scienza]

"This is a one hundred and twenty millimeter anti-dragon cannon built to fire custom engineered concussion, armor penetration, and chemical rounds.  It has one hundred and seventy two perfectly engineered parts all manufactured of high strength alloyed steel infused with a magical repair matrix to maintain perfect operation at all times.  It has a precision range of over two miles at which shells will still impact with a force of five kilomacs. Do you really think that a gun like this should be left in a weapons locker to collect dust?"

See, that's why I found it hard to believe that Deus's cannons were actually 122mm. That would make them bigger than Steel Rain's. Based on how they're depicted in-story, I somehow doubt that's the case. I don't know. I always pictured Deus's guns as autocannons. Like the gun on a Bradley or CV9040, only more compact.

“THAT WON’T BE NECESSARY!” a buck’s voice boomed from outside, fit to make my teeth rattle. A half-dozen explosions tore into the gangers, making them scatter for cover. A section of wall was blown in, showing us with rubble, and in walked a buck who could have been Deus’s power-armored twin; he wore two massive artillery guns just as the former Reaper had. “Paladin Stronghoof, your reinforcements have arrived!” There had to be at least a dozen Rangers arriving from the north.

So, you can interpret this in several ways. It could mean that Deus and Steel Rain have the same model of gun strapped to their plots, in which case you have a minor continuity issue. It could mean that Deus and Steel Rain just both have artillery guns without addressing model. Or, alternately, it could be that they have the same model, it's just that Deus' has been modified or upscaled to fire a larger caliber.

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