Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

[Train Dodger]

Hm, I've not noticed that.

Well, I mean, it's like her speech patterns are not just wordier than the rest, but choppier. More strident. Her dialogue has a different word order, in general, from most of the other characters, almost to the point of having a tic. That's a good thing, because it fleshes out her voice. She's supposed to be the nerd of the group, and she is a bit socially-awkward compared to the others. She talks like someone who's literally been living under a rock for years upon years. 

No.  The phrase is referring to the farm ponies, and the cap is the unit of currency.

What? Oh, crap. Now I see it. Guess that's what I get, working twelve-hour shifts on four hours of sleep. 

 

[JadedPony]

Is it bad that I kinda hate Glory a little? She always rubbed me wrong like she was trying too hard to prove herself to everyone, including herself. I know she's from a military family and that kind of mentality is fostered from youth but she's always struck me as someone who needs to stop. 

She's been living the life her father told her she should lead for so long I don't think she knows who she is. This chapter could mark the real beginning of her finally being a grown-up. She is finally learning to stop trying to please people and be her own pony, or at least I hope she is. 

There is a fine line between being a friend and being a dependent. Glory has been a dependent most of this story. I look at friendship like a farm. We are all investing effort and love in each other and growing our investments together, planting the seeds of shared strengths. What one person isn't good at another might take up the slack or they could do better together. In this way, the crop of our mutual bond grows, friendship, love, whatever you want to call it. 

Glory brings little to the emotional farm because so little of her is actually authentic. She has never had to fight her own fights, never had to develop her own strength. In the aftermath, I hope she will be more self-aware and bring more with her to add to the collective growth... 

Not that ponies are crops... or to be harvested... just a figure of speech! 

No_It's_Not:

[Vinylshadow]

Yeah, I've found a lot of errors in numerous FoE fics, even in the original

can't really be bothered to fix all of them

That, and I have no idea how to modify a PDF file

[Dekshuduph]

Yeah, I've found a lot of errors in numerous FoE fics, even in the original

can't really be bothered to fix all of them

You might even say especially in the original, more specifically if you read it from FimFiction or somewhere else KKat officially posted it. The hashed argument is that ignoring all the errors prevents disparity between different copies of the book, and that way the original publication is preserved as much as possible. I don't agree with that sentiment, and I wonder if there's a project somewhere to put together a copy of the book with as many errors removed as possible, maybe even improving in some areas like completely replacing terms — or even, God forbid, forming continuity with this story and others. But that's just something I've thought about.

That, and I have no idea how to modify a PDF file

Huh. That... would have been a really weird thing for you to say. I'm glad you didn't, because I'm afraid if you did I'd want clarification.

So, um... I really like the antics this thread has been up to recently. I may just be a lurker but I appreciate silly, non-serious discussion now and again, as much as I'd like to see even more speculation.

While the subject is still on editing, though, I noticed something last chapter that's still there and I never bothered mentioning it:

Spoiler:

[Vinylshadow]

Minor things, some things aren't capitalized correctly, or things are capitalized that shouldn't be, missing punctuation, etc

and the whole "LittlePip" "SteelHooves" thing...

[O. Hinds]

Well, I mean, it's like her speech patterns are not just wordier than the rest, but choppier. More strident. Her dialogue has a different word order, in general, from most of the other characters, almost to the point of having a tic. That's a good thing, because it fleshes out her voice. She's supposed to be the nerd of the group, and she is a bit socially-awkward compared to the others. She talks like someone who's literally been living under a rock for years upon years.

Hm. Yeah, I've not noticed that at all. Thanks.

What? Oh, crap. Now I see it. Guess that's what I get, working twelve-hour shifts on four hours of sleep.

No problem. :)

The hashed argument is that ignoring all the errors prevents disparity between different copies of the book, and that way the original publication is preserved as much as possible.

Well, the thing is, that's true. It's just that while Kkat deals with it by not making edits, we've been dealing with it by not making different official versions.

While the subject is still on editing, though, I noticed something last chapter that's still there and I never bothered mentioning it:

Spoiler:

Ah, thank you.

[SilentCarto]

Grammar: The comma after "weapons" should probably be replaced with a colon or semicolon.

No, I think is… some sort of phrase I don't recall the name of at the moment.  [wikis a hypothesis]  Appositive, right.

Dodger is right. This isn't really a rules situation so much as clarity and style. Dashes are important for clarity when the appositive itself contains commas, and this situation is similar. The way it's written, this sounds like a list of three items: pathetic weapons, rusty rifles, and barely mended work implements. You could use a dash in this situation ("Most of them had pathetic weapons -- rusty rifles and barely mended work implements.") or add an adverb to clarify the appositive: "Most of them had pathetic weapons, mainly rusty rifles and barely mended work implements."

I wondered a bit about the ammunition too.  (It's also an issue for tank!Deus, even though he's bigger and has more space, but a lot could be going on there that we don't see; his fuel system's certainly a bit roundabout.)  Steel Rain has the same problem.  That's useful, though, actually, because Steel Rain's guns, while rare, apparently weren't originally unique the way Deus's might have been.  If Equestria was making these in quantity, they'd have to find a way to solve the problem, and, while it could be done by having other ponies follow with the ammunition, that makes the weapon system consume more resources and present more targets to the enemy.  With Equestrian magic, they've a variety of options.  Possibly they use dedicated shrinking spells.

Another possibility is that the propulsive components are not powder-based. If the gun used an explosion talisman to propel the warhead, the soldier could about double his ammo capacity in the same space. Did Deus's or Steel Rain's guns ever explicitly eject casings?

and the whole "LittlePip" "SteelHooves" thing...

What "thing" is that? The fact that Kkat had a love affair with camelcase, or did this printing change those (please god)?

I wish to note, for no particular reason, that Pip-Boy is canonically hyphenated.

[O. Hinds]

Dodger is right. This isn't really a rules situation so much as clarity and style. Dashes are important for clarity when the appositive itself contains commas, and this situation is similar. The way it's written, this sounds like a list of three items: pathetic weapons, rusty rifles, and barely mended work implements. You could use a dash in this situation ("Most of them had pathetic weapons -- rusty rifles and barely mended work implements.") or add an adverb to clarify the appositive: "Most of them had pathetic weapons, mainly rusty rifles and barely mended work implements."

I'm sorry, but it reads quite clearly to me. There'd be some confusion if PH wasn't standardized for the Oxford Comma, I suppose… but it is.

Did Deus's or Steel Rain's guns ever explicitly eject casings?

Oh, hey, Nallar's other formats for PH are back.
Anyway, I thought I remembered this:

Steel Rain ejected the two spent shells, and I saw them spinning away behind him trailing smoke as the autoloader slid two more shells home.

Casings might still be compatible with the explosion talisman idea, though, if the talismans were single-use.

[Icy Shake]

and the whole "LittlePip" "SteelHooves" thing...

What "thing" is that? The fact that Kkat had a love affair with camelcase, or did this printing change those (please god)?

I wish to note, for no particular reason, that Pip-Boy is canonically hyphenated.

 

Is it LittlePip or Littlepip?
       PipBuck or Pipbuck?
       SteelHooves or Steelhooves?

   In PH, at least, they're LittlePip, PipBuck, and Steelhooves.

FoE started out using "LittlePip" but very quickly dropped that for "Littlepip," always used "PipBuck," and almost exclusively used "SteelHooves," with just two cases of "Steelhooves" in the middle. For personal preferences, I have to give it to FoE on the protagonist, after the first few chapters, anyway, and PH on the support.

[SilentCarto]

Did Deus's or Steel Rain's guns ever explicitly eject casings?

Oh, hey, Nallar's other formats for PH are back.
Anyway, I thought I remembered this:

Steel Rain ejected the two spent shells, and I saw them spinning away behind him trailing smoke as the autoloader slid two more shells home.

Casings might still be compatible with the explosion talisman idea, though, if the talismans were single-use.

Or if they used some other sort of alchemical superfuel, true.

Incidentally, you might change that to "ejected the two spent casings", since "shell" refers specifically to the projectile. (Unless it's a shotgun, in which case the "shell" is the entire cartridge, and the casing is called a hull. Damn shotguns, always doing their own thing. Measure yourselves in millimeters, dammit!) I just figure BJ would get the jargon right, since she does have Guns as a tag skill.

[O. Hinds]

Or if they used some other sort of alchemical superfuel, true.

Well, that's more a zebra thing, but I suppose that they might have gotten something working.

Incidentally, you might change that to "ejected the two spent casings", since "shell" refers specifically to the projectile.

Ah, thanks.

[SilentCarto]

Or if they used some other sort of alchemical superfuel, true.

Well, that's more a zebra thing, but I suppose that they might have gotten something working.

Yeah, the fact that they do use cartridges tends to make me think it's an entirely conventional system. Equestria's higher-tech gun systems leaned toward energy weapons, not odd ways of launching an explosive shell.

On the other hand, maybe it just doesn't need that much powder. 2 miles isn't much range for an artillery piece, after all. The following is all back-of-the-envelope calculation, but I've tried to note my assumptions.

Business, business, numbers:

Assuming no airspace, the charge would add 183mm to the cartridge length -- about 7 inches.

[O. Hinds]

Neat! Thanks.

[Vinylshadow]

Neeeerrrrrrrd


Still, it's the little details that matter...and add to the word count

[Scootayay]

I see that this group hasn't really changed since I last checked, probably more than a year ago now. Still over-analyzing everything, crafting wild theories that later turn out to be correct and providing some darn insightful comments at times. Maybe I should start lurking more often again. (Anyone have a bucket of time to spare?)

Anyway, about the new chapter:

Glory leaving Blackjack almost made me shed a tear, although in hindsight I maybe should have seen it coming. There were a lot of signs and I understand Glory's reasons, though I'm certain the decision was a lot tougher than Glory is letting through. 
P-21 actually loving Blackjack also came as a little surprise to me. I was prepared for something a little more than friendship, but not outright love. I distinctly remember Somber saying a while back that Blackjack x P-21 would never happen, so I guess that's where part of that surprise came from.

Overall it was a neat chapter that resolved quite a few plot lines.


The main reason why I'm commenting though is a somewhat big inconsistency in the latest chapter. I'm surprised that almost no one here picked up on it. (Luminous Lead did, but that was passed over by everyone.)

If blanks/Flux clones are immune to Flux, what about the fatties in Hippocratic Research?

Spoilered to prevent long post:

[Syroc]

I've been thinking about the new chapter for a while, and all I can say is...

Dammit somber! Stop making me ride this shipping rollercoaster! The ups and downs were interesting and sweet, but now you've gone and made things complicated! First I was kinda/sorta hoping for BJ and P-21 to make things work, and then I felt bad about ever doing that in light of the revelations that came after. Then it was all "Yaaay lesbian glory!", and then things went up and down (hur hur- no! Bad Syroc!) and blah blah blah... And now everything is upside down and strange and I don't know what I hope happens except that it happens soon! 

And that Glory hugging Blackjack at some point, because I am riding that ship into hell if I have to. (I think this is one of the very few things that I've ever gone all "OTP" about. I am conflicted about how I feel about this.) 

Also, cool and heartwarming things that weren't related to Blackjack's lovelife happened. They were great, and they ramped things up really well. I can't wait to see the Final Battle.

[Derpmind]

I've been thinking about the new chapter for a while, and all I can say is...

Dammit somber! Stop making me ride this shipping rollercoaster!

You know you love it.  

[Guest]

And that Glory hugging Blackjack at some point, because I am riding that ship into hell if I have to. (I think this is one of the very few things that I've ever gone all "OTP" about. I am conflicted about how I feel about this.) 

I've seen a few people say they want them to get back together, but I personally prefer if it wasn't drama for the sake of it.

Though Tenebra and Glory might be a thing, medic and mare who suffers from frequent seizures I imagine they'll be spending a lot of time together in the coming chapters. Assuming Glory doesn't eat it in the next one. I'm prepared for her to. They might work out, as long as the three months of orgies didn't bleed to heavily into the bapony's identities. Don't see why it would. If it did I'd imagine Glory'd see the same issues she saw with BJ.

@Swicked Then shouldn't Boo have a pudge on her hoof to reflect that? Kinda like how a dog will have a sack of fluids on their neck if they're treated for dehydration? Had to look it up, I'm talking about subcutaneous fluids. The vet will insert a needle underneathe the dog's skin and pump in fluid where it will slowly be absorbed.

[Syroc]

@Derpmind

*Sigh* Yeah. I really do.

@Last

Oh, yeah. I'd prefer that it wasn't just for the drama too, but I'm cool with chalking it up to the  "people are crazy" thing. I mean, for such a smart pony Glory really needs to learn about that whole "time and place" nonsense before throwing around gut-punches like that.

[Guest]

I don't disagree, but the alternative is to keep it in the dark, not sure keeping a secret would have been much better for BJ. Asking "what's wrong" when Glory is pulling away from the kisses and getting a half assed excuse would have been probably worse.

She made a decision, that while it sucks right now for BJ at least it's done and it's not slowly getting worse. I feel that choice is better for later even though right now it may seem worse.

[O. Hinds]

The main reason why I'm commenting though is a somewhat big inconsistency in the latest chapter. I'm surprised that almost no one here picked up on it. (Luminous Lead did, but that was passed over by everyone.)

If blanks/Flux clones are immune to Flux, what about the fatties in Hippocratic Research?

Spoilered to prevent long post:

As you say, it's not explicitly stated how the fatties are created.  The first thing you quote only shows that fatties are affected by Flux.  The second one is just Blackjack making a guess, and it wouldn't be the first time she's displayed a lack of knowledge about technical/medical matters.

Though Tenebra and Glory might be a thing

…I…  I'm conflicted now.  Hm.  Needs a name…  Glorybra?

@Swicked Then shouldn't Boo have a pudge on her hoof to reflect that? Kinda like how a dog will have a sack of fluids on their neck if they're treated for dehydration? Had to look it up, I'm talking about subcutaneous fluids. The vet will insert a needle underneathe the dog's skin and pump in fluid where it will slowly be absorbed.

Well, I don't know if swicked is right, but if he is, it's still quite possible that a few drops on a hoof wouldn't be readily noticeable; there's a big gap between that and "shoved into a pool".

[Guest]

Fair enough, just thought that might be a good way to clear up the confusion.

[Vinylshadow]

"Glorybra"

kinky, ship it hard

...what would P-21 and BJ be?

BJ-21? PJ?

Eh, Glory dying wouldn't really affect me

Medic ponies tend to die a lot

*glances at Avatar, which, ironically, is a Medic*

....I don't even....I give up...do whatever you want
Just...what's with all the creepy coincidences lately?

[Scootayay]

@scootayay

They aren't really "immune", though, are they? They absorb the stuff.
It's more that they are flux sponges. You put one in a pool of flux and they will absorb ALL of it.
...or at least enough to become all saturated and fat.

I was saying immune because that's what Triage said in the latest chapter.

Chapter 69:

So, Flux is a protein shake for blanks?
Going by that theory, shouldn't Blackjack have gained some weight by drinking the bottle of Flux? Why isn't she mutating into a fattie herself, or does it take more Flux to have that effect? It should be clarified at least.



--------

They might work out, as long as the three months of orgies didn't bleed to heavily into the bapony's identities. Don't see why it would. If it did I'd imagine Glory'd see the same issues she saw with BJ.

Three months of that is nothing compared to growing up in a society where recreational sex with everyone else is the norm. Tenebra also doesn't seem the type for that, considering her reaction to the orgies. I guess it 'could' work, but I'm not sure their personalities would work that well together.

@Swicked Then shouldn't Boo have a pudge on her hoof to reflect that? Kinda like how a dog will have a sack of fluids on their neck if they're treated for dehydration? Had to look it up, I'm talking about subcutaneous fluids. The vet will insert a needle underneathe the dog's skin and pump in fluid where it will slowly be absorbed.

That works with humans too, by the way. I know someone who did that to himself more or less for fun. It's not really the kind of absorption you'd have here though.


Edit: Wrote this before O. Hinds replied and didn't want to rewrite it. Will reply in a separate post.

[O. Hinds]

Going by that theory, shouldn't Blackjack have gained some weight by drinking the bottle of Flux? Why isn't she mutating into a fattie herself, or does it take more Flux to have that effect?

Well, it was only one bottle.

[Scootayay]

I guess that works, but I still feel it should still be clarified. When blanks can be affected by Flux, that means they are clearly not immune, only resistant.

It also means that Blackjack probably shouldn't drink a lot more Flux unless she wants those fat jokes about her to become true.

[Syroc]

All this smart talk about flux and taint... has anyone made the joke about Blackjack and (sort of) putting taint in her mouth? Because if not, I'm going to be very ashamed to admit that that's where my mind went to first when I read that scene and then bringing that filth here.

[Dekshuduph]

Though Tenebra and Glory might be a thing

…I…  I'm conflicted now.  Hm.  Needs a name…  Glorybra?

I'm going to decide at Ten in the Morning

[Rayndalf]

All this smart talk about flux and taint... has anyone made the joke about Blackjack and (sort of) putting taint in her mouth? Because if not, I'm going to be very ashamed to admit that that's where my mind went to first when I read that scene and then bringing that filth here.

Well she did comment that the flux had a "seminal texture" 
So there's that

[Icy Shake]

And that Glory hugging Blackjack at some point, because I am riding that ship into hell if I have to. (I think this is one of the very few things that I've ever gone all "OTP" about. I am conflicted about how I feel about this.) 

You've got to let go unless you want the ship to drag you down too.

Though Tenebra and Glory might be a thing

…I…  I'm conflicted now.  Hm.  Needs a name…  Glorybra?

Eh, doesn't roll off the tongue that well to me. I'd go "Tenebry," maybe "Tenebory" for a better balance, but taking it closer to the "Enoby" area.

I guess that works, but I still feel it should still be clarified. When blanks can be affected by Flux, that means they are clearly not immune, only resistant.

It also means that Blackjack probably shouldn't drink a lot more Flux unless she wants those fat jokes about her to become true.

Dammit, now I just know it's going to happen and "inspire" at least one fetish clop.
If I need to suffer the thought, I'm taking you with me.

I guess that works, but I still feel it should still be clarified. When blanks can be affected by Flux, that means they are clearly not immune, only resistant.

It also means that Blackjack probably shouldn't drink a lot more Flux unless she wants those fat jokes about her to become true.

Taint is an affliction. Tumors and junk. It is caused in normal living things by exposure to flux.

Previously, no one knew what caused taint, after all. They just knew what people would sometimes get it and then, all of a sudden, they had tumors everywhere. Unless "they" were Littlepip, since she just got alicorn powers. In that sense, Littlepip is immune to taint, too.

Blanks don't get taint. They have a different reaction to flux, absorbing it. In small amounts it has a beneficial effect, it seems. Blackjack felt energized. In large amounts, you get fatties.
Not really "taint" as it is understood in PH either way.

I'm fine with adjusting to that for the purposes of Project Horizons, but I really don't think that's something readily extractable from FoE.

Taint, on the other hoof, is a zebra of very different stripes.  Nopony knows exactly what the taint is or where it comes from, but we know its mutative effects on monsters and the fatally malignant repercussions on ponies.  Remember, folks: taint don’t care what you’re wearing.  No protective suit keeps it out.  And there’s no cure.  Only way to safely tell if a place is tainted is by reputation.  Discover one by any other means, it’s probably too late …

A single spell, powered by the Elements of Harmony, calculated and cast by a magically augmented Crusader Maneframe.  A single spell that would affect the entirety of Equestria, cleansing it of radiation and taint, restoring it to the beautiful paradise it once was before the other megaspells twisted and poisoned it.

Life Bloom had magically purged me of taint, but I had been exposed to a lot of it, both through direct contact with the dirty I.M.P. lake in Maripony and later in trace aerosol amounts from the leak in the safe room.

Etc.

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