Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

[Guest]

just one thought:

Unless, you know...

Something cool and glassy bumped up against my temple, and I raised my eyes to see a purple healing potion held by P-21.  “Here.  Brewed this morning.

...they can just make them.  This is epic level endgame in an RPG.  The party should be allowed to be showered in [s]stimpacks[/s] purple potions every now and then.

... The ingredients for a healing potion are not Hoofington rain and sweat. P-21 didn't stumble across the Philosopher's stone either. They would still be limited.

[Vinylshadow]

It's made from blood sweat and tears of anti-bronies

that's why there's so many at any point in time somewhere in Equestria

[Vergil]

I really liked this chapter- but for a while today I couldn't figure out why.

...I'm fairly certain now though that it's because I've finally come around to liking P-21 in general. It was honestly impossible not to after seeing him here.

[Luminous Lead]

... The ingredients for a healing potion are not Hoofington rain and sweat. P-21 didn't stumble across the Philosopher's stone either. They would still be limited.

Yeah, I mean, it's not as if (through Blackjack/Cognitium's connections) ponies could come together and combine extensive pre-war knowledge (like, say that of the alicorns, the ghouls, or the memory orbs) along with preserved equipment (like the Zodiac's, the Steel Rangers, or the Society) and scavenged materials (Bottlecap, the Crusaders) and possibly form any sort of functional system of making a highly distributed tonic. Couldn't happen ;D

[Icy Shake]

Chapter 69, everyone!  It… well, that would be a spoiler.  :)

*hugs Hinds and Somber each very gently*

Thank you, for writing this story, Somber.  And thank you, Hinds, and to the other editors for all the hard work you do to help it be so great.

I got my copy downloaded, and I'll definitely be reading it tonight, but I couldn't help wanting to know what happened at the start...

double spoilered:

As much as I'm worried about what will happen this chapter, I'm really looking forward to reading it.

I hope you enjoy it.  It does have some rough stuff in it.


unrelated:
What's the term for someone from Hoofington, I wonder?  Hoofingtonite?

I prefer "Hoofingtonian" myself, but then I have a personal affinity for Boston and contorted my logic to see the technological war effort of Hoofington as a parallel to various instances in that city.

Oh, and you were right about the adverb thing. For some reason I think I was reading it with a very different structure than the actual sentence.

[Guest]

Yeah, I mean, it's not as if (through Blackjack/Cognitium's connections) ponies could come together and combine extensive pre-war knowledge (like, say that of the alicorns, the ghouls, or the memory orbs) along with preserved equipment (like the Zodiac's, the Steel Rangers, or the Society) and scavenged materials (Bottlecap, the Crusaders) and possibly form any sort of functional system of making a highly distributed tonic.  Couldn't happen ;D

Are you serious?

[O. Hinds]

I prefer "Hoofingtonian" myself, but then I have a personal affinity for Boston and contorted my logic to see the technological war effort of Hoofington as a parallel to various instances in that city.

I wonder if the story will use one.

Oh, and you were right about the adverb thing. For some reason I think I was reading it with a very different structure than the actual sentence.

Ah, okay; thanks.


Regarding the healing potion thing, consider this: was it a wasteful, frivolous use? I think that an argument could be made that it was not. Blackjack's psychological health is at this point vital to saving the world, and it could use every boost it can get.

[Guest]

They are using medical supplies for sex toys. That is what happened. Of course it's frivolous and wasteful. It absolutely is.

Medical supplies like this are practically synonymous with emergency supplies. You don't take the batteries out of your smoke detector to run your gameboy. No matter how long you've owned your home without incident.

And if you're going to argue mental state then how about this scenario. Scotch is critically injured and they are out of potions. Don't you think they're capable of linking their waste earlier to the situation at hand? You don't think that would be a worse blow to their mental state then a few less orgasms?

That may never happen. But P-21 doesn't know that and neither does BJ. That's why extra and set aside potions don't exist.

[Luminous Lead]

They are using medical supplies for sex toys. That is what happened. Of course it's frivolous and wasteful. It absolutely is.

Medical supplies like this are practically synonymous with emergency supplies. You don't take the batteries out of your smoke detector to run your gameboy. No matter how long you've owned your home without incident.

And if you're going to argue mental state then how about this scenario. Scotch is critically injured and they are out of potions. Don't you think they're capable of linking their waste earlier to the situation at hand? You don't think that would be a worse blow to their mental state then a few less orgasms?

That may never happen. But P-21 doesn't know that and neither does BJ. That's why extra and set aside potions don't exist.

I'm not arguing that it was a smart use of medical supplies, I was arguing that they aren't necessarily nearly as limited as they've been up until this point. P-21 implies that they have the capacity to produce these things, and patchy Hoofington enervation tends to ensure they don't last forever, so huge stockpiles aren't necessarily the best solution either.

I'm not where this whole argument about a "mental state" comes from, but P-21 said it was a "little cheat" (which I'm assuming means 99) so it's likely that he's likely more comfortable with the idea of using them for "duties".

Sure, maybe it's not the best idea, but until we get an idea of their relative abundance of medical supplies that they must have accrued during the three or so months that Go Fish's been gone, I don't yet see grounds for condemnation.

[Guest]

Well, you see, Hinds made a comment about psyhological health.

And I'm not sure how many times I have to repeat myself, but because they have a lot does not matter. You can not know how many you are going to need. If you could tell the future like that then those people would simply not get injured in the first place.

And because it might not be as useful later also is a terrible excuse. BJ could have broken her legs walking down the stairs. They'll be useless in a few hours does not mean anything if you need them in ten minutes.

[RoboRed]

Chapter is done and horrible. Hope people like it.

This chapter was horrible and I loved it.

[O. Hinds]

Well, you see, Hinds made a comment about psyhological health.

And I'm not sure how many times I have to repeat myself, but because they have a lot does not matter. You can not know how many you are going to need. If you could tell the future like that then those people would simply not get injured in the first place.

And because it might not be as useful later also is a terrible excuse. BJ could have broken her legs walking down the stairs. They'll be useless in a few hours does not mean anything if you need them in ten minutes.

You have to draw the line somewhere, though, otherwise you'll never use them because you might need them more later. And it's not as if Blackjack and P-21 were out in the middle of nowhere when they did this.

[Guest]

Chapel has been attacked before Hinds, it was a pretty big one both times. And everyone has moved there, it's silly to think that Cognitum doesn't have eyes on a city that close to the core.
Mercy bridge is right next to it. I wouldn't be surprised if the next chapter starts off with them being attacked by the harbringers.

Edit: Also you're right but there's levels. BJ using a potion to heal a non life threatening injury that effects her combat is much more reasonable then she was in bed with P-21 and they decided they wanted some more orgasms. When faced with the Scotch scenario again I think in her mind BJ could still justify that use. And I wouldn't fault her for using one in that way.

Like if you'll allow me to refer back to the smoke detector. If the power goes out and I need to go downstairs, my flashlight is out of batteries and the only ones in the house are in the smoke detector then that's a good reason to take the batteries out. It may prevent me from breaking my leg, and in case of a fire non-broken leg is arguably more useful then smoke detector.

[Guest]

Not going to post about this anymore, but just to be clear I didn't think the potion usage was OOC or should be changed. I just thought it was an incredibly dumb decision on their part.

[Aonee]

Finished 69 earlier today.
So there's this guy called Everyle in the TPP community. He's known as the Taxman of Tears. Well, if Everyle's the taxman, Somber is Julius Fucking Caesar. Great chapter Somber, the feels train still has no breaks.

[Exodus Hero]

Not to beat a dead horse in this pro/con potion use, but Blackjack knew that she was planning on going to war or at least some extended conflict with Cogs and called a council of people in order to see this through. By this logic, every supply they have is needed for the war effort, and by extent, is not a something that can be counted as extra. More so, even if Cogs didn't want Blackjacks friends involved with her conflict, it doesn't mean that their inventory would be ignored to the point where they had extra anything. Case in point, when the Harbingers were demanding supplies from lack of ammunition.

I won't argue that using the potions were wrong, but I do agree with Last in this regard that it was incredibly irresponsible considering the gravity of the upcoming situation. Those few extra potions might not affect anything within the main cast of character, but surely when the actual fighting starts, those few extra potions could have made the difference between a live soldier and a dead soldier. Then again, we have seen P-21 be (not sure selfish is necessarily the right word) in these type of situations.

Anyways, continue with your discussions.

[Kippershy]

I've been told people were talking about me, and upon looking for it (because god damn curiosity is a bitch), I felt like giving an answer.
I left Cloudsville because there was little to nothing left for me here. Oh, sure, I had friends here and I still consider those people to be good people by all means, but I'm not the overly social type. If those people were to say hello on steam, I wouldn't think 'Great, it's that guy.' I'd just be like 'Oh, hey!' ...but that's enough of that side of it.

The reason I felt is because of Project Horizons, Somber and people who (in my eyes) blindly follow Somber without allowing for any critique before tears come flowing hard.
I mean, holy fuck, it's even right there in the header not to put Somber down.
Now, here's the problem; attacking someone on a personal level like 4chan likes to do is pointless and stupid, I agree. It shouldn't be done. However, a lot of people take that as 'no criticisms, dislike, complaints or other negativity allowed'.
It's a fucking hugbox and the moment someone doesn't like what the general consensus likes, it's that the person in question is evil.

I don't read Project Horizons any more but when a new chapter comes about, there are people who still read it (for the trainwreck qualities) who tell either 4chan or myself personally about it. They don't read it because they're captivated by the characters or the plotline in the conventional sense any more, they read it to see how true to the spoilers it stays, how many megalodons it can jump and out of pure habit.
I can't do that and since I can't, there's no place for me here. I don't agree with what Somber puts into the story and every time I hear a new chapter is out, I hear something that just makes me wonder 'why'.

That is why I left. There's nothing here for me. Nothing but arguments and there's plenty of those fuckers over on 4chan.
And with that, I'm off again and I'll let you in peace once more. May my metaphorical corpse rot in its coffin for another thousand years.

[Harmony Ltd.]

Why's there a number of downvotes thrown around on what's a relatively civil debate otherwise?

Anyway, my two cents on the issue:

- It seems the Hoof has reached a point where it is able to start producing healing potions in enough numbers that they aren't -that- rare anymore. What's more, P-21's quote earlier in the chapter seems to imply that the gang itself has started producing healing potion.
- As has been brought up before, healing potions in Hoofington are a perishable item, so before a while you get in a situation of "use it or lose it". The only question is before how long. If it's sooner rather than later, then it only pushes the incentive to use them.
- In the specific circumstances were the potions were used and which are currently being debated, Blackjack is literally the most important person in the Hoof, and maybe even the planet; and ensuring she doesn't fall apart psychologically is of the utmost importance, considering what we have later seen in the chapter (speech and all that). So using a few healing potions, even if they might be rare, in order to ensure that she is, well, later able to do what she must do to have good chances of saving the lives of everyone on the planet, may be a case of "let's prioritize the use of our supplies". Also, may be a case of P-21 having kept some form of "professional consciousness" from his earlier life in Stable 99: if pleasing a mare is the mission, then you use the supplies necessary for it.

Conclusion: doesn't make it something that you should do, but perfectly understandable and somewhat reasonable in context.

[Somber]

Folks, stimpacks can be produced by anyone with a broc flower, xander root, and empty syringe and a science skill of 70.  In the PnP game, they can be made with the right herbs, someone with the alchemy trait, and a survival skill of 40.  In otherwords, they aren't irreplaceable and since Enervation spoils them in a few weeks, to a few days or even hours in places of extreme enervation, hoarding them for an emergency is more wasteful then using them for sex.  Also, where are you getting that P-21 would be using all the healing potions they have?  He's using some, sure, but he thinks helping blackjack matters more than holding on to the potions for the next few days till they eventually spoil.

[OneMoreDaySK]

*sighs*
I think I am what you call "burned out" on this story. There is not any character I relate to anymore. At this point I have a little stickynote tallying the times Blackjack has died in one form or another. Kinda feel like I am slipping into the category Kip is describing, where I am reading it just because. Can not really bring myself to comment too much on each chapter. End is coming soon. Allies gather, and some will die in the final confrontation. Blackjack has a high chance of going to space. RocketTown ghouls will probably come into play. Also, Blackjack seems to keep trying to one-up Littlepip in every instance. There something aside from the super-TK that Littlepip 'beats' Blackjack at? Funny at first, but feeling like the joke has gone a little too long.

Maybe when the story is done, I might take a break, then come back to the story and reread it from the beginning.

[Vinylshadow]

Don't forget to read it slowly

Reading too much Horizons at any point in time is going to make it a chore and you won't enjoy it nearly as much

[OneMoreDaySK]

I will probably subdivide each chapter to meet those ends. However, I still can not feel like I can empathize with any of the cast anymore.

[Silver136]

I empathize a bit with both P-21 and Goldenblood actually.

[Vinylshadow]

So you're a parent with a child you didn't know you had?

Congratulations, have they tried to kill you yet?

[Silver136]

I empthize a but more with the whole "I screwed up and deserve punishment" thing. Especially since I don't have any children...

[RoboRed]

...That you know of...  

[Silver136]

[Insert awkward virgin joke here]

[Harmony Ltd.]

[Insert awkward virgin joke here]

[Downloaded Skill]

I find myself empathizing with BJ, P-21, Goldenblood and Glory. However I do empathize with P-21 the most out of all of them. The rest of the characters I usually just understand them and why they did the things they did. BJ I empathize with because I share her goal of wanting to improving things for everyone, being too stubborn to give up when other people say that it's impossible, a strong sense of justice that even extends to yourself, and a willingness to give people second chances. Other than that I do like her sense of humor and how she talks. It reminds me of myself (I talk differently in real life, I just prefer the respectful tone on the internet). It's not related to empathy, but I also like BJ because of her culture which sounds odd but let me explain. I like how BJ came from a different culture and it influences her entire outlook and whats right and whats wrong. I like it when a viewpoint character thinks differently than me for good, understandable reasons and not just "we're good because we're good" or "we're evil because we're evil". I like the culture clash and the development that results from it, but the cultural influences don't completely go away. 

P-21 I greatly empathize with because he's someone who has been forced into a mold his entire life with no real choice on his part and he's trying to break out of it, but he struggles to fully free himself of it, if he even can. I really empathize with his struggle to break out of the conditioning placed upon him and I think his reactions to it are believable, I went through several phases that he went through. As a result I also share a lot of his views on personal freedom and self determination. 

Goldenblood I empathize with because because I know what it's like to have to make hard choices, which often involve doing bad things, for good reasons because the circumstances force you to. I also respect him because he's someone capable of getting large and influential things done in a system that would have strangled attempts that went through normal channels. He is a good, but flawed leader, that struggled with balancing optimism and cynicism. I can respect that.

Glory I empathize with for reasons similar to P-21. They're both people who have been put in boxes and they're trying to break out and be their own person. She is someone that is tired of being considered weak, helpless, and needing protecting even though she is more than capable of standing on her own, most of the time. Everyone needs support sometimes. I can really relate to her struggle.

[Vinylshadow]

Gotta love being nothing but a breeding machine and then your whole life gets flipped on its head by someone who killed your lover

Keeps getting the short end of the stick, doesn't he?

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