Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

[Somber]

hmmm.... that's an interesting idea....

[O. Hinds]

@imurmanic:
Welcome!
No comment on your idea, I'm afraid; I know some stuff, don't know a lot more, have my own ideas… I'm not sure if I'm underqualified, overqualified, or both.

[OneMoreDaySK]

Re: Chapter 54
Well, yeah, unless you want to state that the sword is taking bits and pieces off of Blackjack, I'd second the notion of removing the stabbing. Headshot should count for enough, especially at that distance.

@Swicked
You haven't lost your touch at character dialogue. Very funny.

Also, thanks again for that last chapter review. Rereading it makes it funnier.

Re: Blackjack's virtue
Still calling it: forgiveness. Doesn't mean she has to forgive everyone all the time, but something she strives for, last of which is herself.

[Caoimhe]

If we're talking virtues, it's gotta be tenacity. I mean, think about it.

[Vergil]

All I can think about when I read that is BJ trying to kill herself kultiple times.

[tylertoon2]

If we're talking virtues, it's gotta be tenacity. I mean, think about it.

Blackjack is now Chell.

[Meleagridis]

What does Blackjack consistently deliver when she is at her best?

What is she failing to deliver when she is at her worst?

[SilentCarto]

Blackjack's already died. Twice. And her reproductive organs are the only part still in its original condition so far.

...I'm sorry, I just had the mental image of BJ ending up as a brain and a pair of ovaries in a jar.

This is now on my character interaction wishlist, right after Rampage and Lacunae: Doof shouting down Echo's throat in a 'shit I've seen' shouting match.

Echo has been in a computer in Stable 99 for two centuries.
Doof has been in stasis for a similar period.
Now watch Rampage just waltz in and blow both their minds.

"I've seen a ghoul █████ ███ █████ his ██████ while ████ ████████ ███ ██ █████ ██ ██████, then turn around and █████ ██ ████ ██ ████ in a ██████████ ████ fifteen ████ ███ ████ with ████. Of course, then I ██████ ████ ██████ ██ █████ his ███████, so ██████ ███ █████████ ███, and nobody else wanted anything to do with me after that, so I walked right out."

Sigh...

I re- re- read 54 and now I want to tweak the end of the Legate fight and have the bullets have some more substantial impact to BJ... thoughts? Or should I just leave well enough alone?

If you feel like tweaking it, I say go ahead. This sounds like the sort of post-hoc continuity tweaks that you do every so often, no big deal.

That said, once you feel it's acceptable, I'd advise you to mentally draw a line in the sand and not re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-SPECT! Just a little bit...
Er, sorry, I meant, not re-re-re-read it.

[CD]

Echo has been in a computer in Stable 99 for two centuries.
Doof has been in stasis for a similar period.
Now watch Rampage just waltz in and blow both their minds.

"I've seen a ghoul █████ ███ █████ his ██████ while ████ ████████ ███ ██ █████ ██ ██████, then turn around and █████ ██ ████ ██ ████ in a ██████████ ████ fifteen ████ ███ ████ with ████. Of course, then I ██████ ████ ██████ ██ █████ his ███████, so ██████ ███ █████████ ███, and nobody else wanted anything to do with me after that, so I walked right out."

Aww, half of this is completely censored out! I was curious just what Rampage had seen.

[O. Hinds]

By the way, I've thought of a good, safe, and efficient way to destroy the EoS (Blackjack and co. don't have the time or resources for it, but it would have been relatively easy for pre-apocalypse Equestria; it might have helped smooth things over with the Zebras, too). Step one: acquire lots of powdered moonstone. Step two: drill a hole down to the EoS. Step three: connect a heat exchanger to the hole and a power plant. Step four: mix the powdered moonstone with water to a carefully calculated concentration. Step five: pour water into hole, using the steam to produce electricity until the Eater has been fully replaced with a large underground water pocket. There might be some problems with subsidence, but, all things considered, that's pretty mild.

[Quotidian]

The only problem there is just how efficient the reaction is. Since this plan seems to assume total annihilation of the Eater, I'm assuming it's 100%, antimatter style. You'd have to keep the reaction relatively slow to prevent, you know, explosions. Calculate the rate of energy production you deem safe, then guesstimate the mass of the Eater and use the rate to determine how long it would take to turn all that mass to energy. I'm guessing several generations at least. Not to mention you'd probably need a moon base and a mass driver to get the necessary moonstone.

But given the tech level of pre-war Equestria, that last bit is the easy part.

[O. Hinds]

The only problem there is just how efficient the reaction is. Since this plan seems to assume total annihilation of the Eater, I'm assuming it's 100%, antimatter style. You'd have to keep the reaction relatively slow to prevent, you know, explosions. Calculate the rate of energy production you deem safe, then guesstimate the mass of the Eater and use the rate to determine how long it would take to turn all that mass to energy. I'm guessing several generations at least. Not to mention you'd probably need a moon base and a mass driver to get the necessary moonstone.

But given the tech level of pre-war Equestria, that last bit is the easy part.

Well, additional boreholes would accelerate the process, but yeah, it would take a while. Under these circumstances, why would that be a problem?

[Quotidian]

Well, additional boreholes would accelerate the process, but yeah, it would take a while. Under these circumstances, why would that be a problem?

Disregarding the difficulties inherent in any multigenerational project, the Eater is at least semi sentient, right? I doubt it would sit there and take that for a century. Then again, who knows what that thing wants?

[OneMoreDaySK]

It wants souls. Thought that was obvious. Now what it wants to do with them afterwards, I'ven't got a clue.

[O. Hinds]

Well, additional boreholes would accelerate the process, but yeah, it would take a while. Under these circumstances, why would that be a problem?

Disregarding the difficulties inherent in any multigenerational project, the Eater is at least semi sentient, right? I doubt it would sit there and take that for a century. Then again, who knows what that thing wants?

No need to disregard them, I think; we've got two practically-immortals (possibly three, if this other universe gets Twilicorn) in charge of things. As for what it can do to resist... I may be wrong, but I've gotten the impression that, in its current, weak state, it has to rely on corrupted (or just ignorant) mortal agents. Just post signs telling people to please disregard the seductive whispers of the eldritch horror they're busy destroying.

Additionally, what if the dent in the moonstone was just a dent? What if this isn't matter and antimatter, but moonstone annialating starmetal and only converting it to energy?
Too much moonstone in the eater could just cause China syndrome :P

[wikis China syndrome]
That... makes no sense. Okay, maybe, maybe a really bad meltdown could reach the mantle (though those natural reactors in Gabon didn't do that, which calls even that into question), and maybe it could somehow reach the opposite crust without just dispersing. I really, really don't see it penetrating a little way in, not unless it by chance came up in a volcano. Why was this ever thought plausible?

[Moodyman90]

Sorry to throw nothing new or really relevant to the conversation, but all the talk of moon rocks just reminds me of Portal 2 and how it turns out the white paint they used for the rooms you can place portals in is made from grounded up moon rocks and dust.

[CD]

Sorry to throw nothing new or really relevant to the conversation, but all the talk of moon rocks just reminds me of Portal 2 and how it turns out the white paint they used for the rooms you can place portals in is made from grounded up moon rocks and dust.

Now I'm imagining Blackjack in orange barding and with jump horseshoes.

[O. Hinds]

...well, I just meant it as the eater getting hotter and hotter with no signs of stopping and no clear or safe way of halting the reaction.

Stop injecting moonstone? The system would be designed to minimize excess reactivity. Yes, it will become more difficult to do this as the starmetal is eaten away, but this will be accompanied by enlargement of the water spaces, which can act as heat sinks.

As for why people thought it was possible? Hollywood. That's beside the point, though.

Ugh, hollywood.

[Sindri]

I hypothesized that moonstone isn't consumed in the reaction. Similar to how starmetal annialates magic that doesn't match its frequency, moonstone might annialate whatever bonds keep starmetal together, not consuming any moonstone in the process. Blackjack's experiment resulted in the starmetal evaporating and the moonstone getting a dent, not neccessarily being consumed.
I'm not sure if we're just jumping to conclusions here by assuming this is basically just magical matter vs. antimatter.

So removing added moonstone might not be possible. Once you've injected some into the eater, it might just require continuous cooling forever.

IIRC one of the Goldenblood records/orbs/flashbacks mentioned an optimal ratio of 1000:1 for the moonstone/starmetal reaction. So both are consumed, but one at a thousand times the rate of the other. If you mix similarly sized chunks, the reaction is limited by one and ends before more than a thousandth of the other is consumed, leaving only a little dent.

[Sindri]

Kay.
Still curious what moonstone does, exactly, then. What specifically is reacting since starmetal has a single magical frequency and ichor has all but that specific one.
It's not canceling out the frequency, its disturbing its ability to stay physical. It's making it break up into star motes, soul pieces and memories. I thought it might be some kind of magical enzyme, activating the natural process of large, old stars to give up their energy.

I'm just not sure what energy could be in the moon rocks... after all, they otherwise appear to be pretty much mundane.

Well, IIRC the moon was created by the impact of a star, which tried and failed to destroy the Eater alone. Its last act was an attempt to annihilate a specific target, so if that was accomplished through some manipulation of its own nature, it would make sense for its "corpse" to have an adverse effect on the same target. If I had to guess, I'd go with something along the lines of it "resonating" on the same frequency as the Eater but offset by a half wavelength so wherever they intersect there's destructive interference.

[O. Hinds]

Kay.
Still curious what moonstone does, exactly, then. What specifically is reacting since starmetal has a single magical frequency and ichor has all but that specific one.
It's not canceling out the frequency, its disturbing its ability to stay physical. It's making it break up into star motes, soul pieces and memories. I thought it might be some kind of magical enzyme, activating the natural process of large, old stars to give up their energy.

I'm just not sure what energy could be in the moon rocks... after all, they otherwise appear to be pretty much mundane.

Well, IIRC the moon was created by the impact of a star, which tried and failed to destroy the Eater alone. Its last act was an attempt to annihilate a specific target, so if that was accomplished through some manipulation of its own nature, it would make sense for its "corpse" to have an adverse effect on the same target. If I had to guess, I'd go with something along the lines of it "resonating" on the same frequency as the Eater but offset by a half wavelength so wherever they intersect there's destructive interference.

Hm, same tune but out of phase? Interesting idea...

[SilentCarto]

I'm just not sure what energy could be in the moon rocks... after all, they otherwise appear to be pretty much mundane.

Souls.
But by chance a world, green and rife with the tiny specks of ghost light, drifted too near. The twisted remains curved towards it, speeding as they plunged towards the highest snow-capped mountain. The blast shattered the great peak, blasting it apart into flying stone. [...] Those fragile motes and their infant songs were snuffed out in an instant.
From the great impact a ring of stone formed, the pieces drawing together to collect the tiny specks of life.
Like the gems Goldie pointed out in his paleontology lesson, the moon is supercharged with the souls of the pre-sentient creatures that once inhabited Equestria.

If I had to guess why moonstone hurts the Eater of Souls, here's my theory. Goldie said that "the meteoric iron doesn’t cancel; it somehow eliminates the waves of others. You can cast every spell you want at it and it will simply destroy the magic, releasing great amounts of energy as it does so." Sure, it blocks mortal magic. That's just a soul projecting its frequency into the universe. It's like a fly hitting a Mack truck. But what happens when you bring the soul itself into direct contact? Maybe that's "dense" enough to do some damage, like shooting a truck with a bullet. One might not be more than an annoyance, but hit it with enough of them, and you're bound to eventually tear into something vital.

It may well have something to do with Luna being attuned to the moon, as well -- she's a celestial soul, like the EoS. While mortal souls can't be consumed by the EoS, we know they can reinforce its song. So it stands to reason that they could reinforce Luna, too, or vice versa. Maybe that gives moonstone a sort of "armor piercing" effect against the Eater, able to breach its defenses because it's a little bit "like" the Eater, but so fundamentally unlike it that the Eater's frequency is disrupted out of all proportion to the soul attacking it.

And while I may be ascribing the EoS more intelligence than it has, I have to wonder if that's why Luna was the one tempted by its power...

[SilentCarto]

Disregarding the difficulties inherent in any multigenerational project, the Eater is at least semi sentient, right? I doubt it would sit there and take that for a century. Then again, who knows what that thing wants?

This was my first thought. Last time they poked the Eater with a stick to use it as a power source, it turned the Enervation up to eleven. It's a good idea in theory, but I'd worry about how the Eater might be able to strike back against a slow bleed like this.

No need to disregard them, I think; we've got two practically-immortals (possibly three, if this other universe gets Twilicorn) in charge of things.

You're assuming Twilicorn is in fact immortal. I'm not sure that's the case. Cadence appears to have aged at a normal rate from teen to adult and had no apparent misgivings about marrying Shining.

[wikis China syndrome]
That... makes no sense. Okay, maybe, maybe a really bad meltdown could reach the mantle (though those natural reactors in Gabon didn't do that, which calls even that into question), and maybe it could somehow reach the opposite crust without just dispersing. I really, really don't see it penetrating a little way in, not unless it by chance came up in a volcano. Why was this ever thought plausible?

Yeah, the fuel would have to maintain that extreme heat output without vaporizing or getting diluted enough by molten rock enough to slow the reaction. I don't think anyone educated ever worried about it melting through anything beyond floor of the containment building.

[Quotidian]

Like the gems Goldie pointed out in his paleontology lesson, the moon is supercharged with the souls of the pre-sentient creatures that once inhabited Equestria.

Wait. Holy shit. Assuming Project Horizons is what I think it is, Goldie planned on killing the Eater, a semi-sentient eldritch abomination, by throwing a moon made of dinosaur souls at it?

That is the coolest thing I've ever heard.

[Exodus Hero]

Anyone have rough sketch or anything of the like for Hoofington? Thinking about making a small map for the city, nothing fancy but just something to wrap my brain around when I don't remember/recognize a place.

[O. Hinds]

Disregarding the difficulties inherent in any multigenerational project, the Eater is at least semi sentient, right? I doubt it would sit there and take that for a century. Then again, who knows what that thing wants?

This was my first thought. Last time they poked the Eater with a stick to use it as a power source, it turned the Enervation up to eleven. It's a good idea in theory, but I'd worry about how the Eater might be able to strike back against a slow bleed like this.

Hm... Possibly, but that time they were trying to work with it, were they not? Extracting energy from it and its soul-eating. This would be collecting the energy released from its destruction. You probably are right, though, that we don't know enough about its capabilities...

No need to disregard them, I think; we've got two practically-immortals (possibly three, if this other universe gets Twilicorn) in charge of things.

You're assuming Twilicorn is in fact immortal. I'm not sure that's the case. Cadence appears to have aged at a normal rate from teen to adult and had no apparent misgivings about marrying Shining.

Is it not explicitly said in the episode, though, that Twilight is a new type of alicorn (thus wasting this chance to explain Cadence)?

[Icy Shake]

No need to disregard them, I think; we've got two practically-immortals (possibly three, if this other universe gets Twilicorn) in charge of things.

You're assuming Twilicorn is in fact immortal. I'm not sure that's the case. Cadence appears to have aged at a normal rate from teen to adult and had no apparent misgivings about marrying Shining.

Is it not explicitly said in the episode, though, that Twilight is a new type of alicorn (thus wasting this chance to explain Cadence)?

I can't find that, just that nopony had ever created new magic before (what? need some explanation there) and that Rarity didn't know it was possible to become an alicorn. So we don't know if the Royal Pony Sisters are different from Cadence, or if she is different from Twilight. As for wasting chances to explain Cadence, they've been doing that for nearly a year now, and the same for the Sisters since 2010, so that's basically par for the course.

Anyway, as far as I can recall, Shining hasn't made an appearance, and no one has mentioned him by name--much less name and race--in FoE/PH; for all we know, Cadence (who may have only appeared offscreen to date, and never confirmed as any sort of alicorn) married and had a foal with someone, who may or may not have been named Shining Armor, and who may or may not be related to Twilight, of the same race as herself. Whether that would be another (just) unicorn (or pegasus, or earth pony) or another alicorn is unclear.

[Guest]

Anyone have rough sketch or anything of the like for Hoofington? Thinking about making a small map for the city, nothing fancy but just something to wrap my brain around when I don't remember/recognize a place.

I think Hinds and Silentcarto have done some mapmaking of the area.

[O. Hinds]

Anyone have rough sketch or anything of the like for Hoofington? Thinking about making a small map for the city, nothing fancy but just something to wrap my brain around when I don't remember/recognize a place.

I think Hinds and Silentcarto have done some mapmaking of the area.

Silentcarto has, but I have not (unless you count the area around Hoofington on my Equestria map, I guess).

[Sindri]

No need to disregard them, I think; we've got two practically-immortals (possibly three, if this other universe gets Twilicorn) in charge of things.

You're assuming Twilicorn is in fact immortal. I'm not sure that's the case. Cadence appears to have aged at a normal rate from teen to adult and had no apparent misgivings about marrying Shining.

Is it not explicitly said in the episode, though, that Twilight is a new type of alicorn (thus wasting this chance to explain Cadence)?

I can't find that, just that nopony had ever created new magic before (what? need some explanation there) and that Rarity didn't know it was possible to become an alicorn. So we don't know if the Royal Pony Sisters are different from Cadence, or if she is different from Twilight. As for wasting chances to explain Cadence, they've been doing that for nearly a year now, and the same for the Sisters since 2010, so that's basically par for the course.

Anyway, as far as I can recall, Shining hasn't made an appearance, and no one has mentioned him by name--much less name and race--in FoE/PH; for all we know, Cadence (who may have only appeared offscreen to date, and never confirmed as any sort of alicorn) married and had a foal with someone, who may or may not have been named Shining Armor, and who may or may not be related to Twilight, of the same race as herself. Whether that would be another (just) unicorn (or pegasus, or earth pony) or another alicorn is unclear.

Yeah, it looks to me that the twilicorn thing was a bit of executive meddling to try to sell more toys, and never thought through particularly well. In FoE, Twilight is very clearly not an alicorn until Unity, and the Princesses are special. In PH, Cadence is mentioned in passing but never appears or is specified to a type, and Celestia and Luna were spawned from a different star than the rest of Equestrian life.

In the show itself... bluh. I am very close to giving up on trying to figure out the mechanics, because I've clearly already put more thought into it than those responsible. Celestia and Luna are immortal, but Cadence aged visibly in just a few short years. Twilight got wings for patching up a spell somepony else created, while Starswirl created books full of spells and got nothing but a classy beard. If alicorn status can just be handed out as a promotion or reward, why are there so few, what did Cadence do to qualify before she even reached adulthood, and why didn't Starswirl? Are Luna and Celestia something different from other alicorns, or do they all become immortal and gain cosmic power?

It doesn't help that the writers have pretty much said that they didn't plan for alicornication at the end of this season, and Cadence was originally a unicorn by word of Faust.

Yeah, unless season four finally gives us a bloody explanation of something, I think that season three has pretty much gone AU from the previous seasons where things made sense.

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