Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

[OneMoreDaySK]

Methinks the reform spell requires high level unicorns to perform, so even if you knew how to do it, you wouldn't have the mana pool to cast it.

[WavemasterRyx]

Don't worry about my story, really.
before it could be close to worth reading I would have to rewrite the beginning to add more detail and charm to my character as it currently galls short in earlier chapters.
Project Horizons is much more worthy of your time. Hell, just doing anything fun or relacxing for you is better.

Of course I'm worried about it, Kipper, you know me...
Yeah... I still need to work on the fun and relaxing thing a little.

Sorry to hear that you're fairing poorly. You've got all our best wishes, mate, and I hope things improve for you soon.

Thank you, OAC, I really do appreciate it, and I hope so too.

::Sends Ryx a personal note and hug.::

Well, I sent a slightly more timely response in PM, but I'll say it here too, thank you Somber. *hugs you back gently*

I hope that things improve for you soon.

...Or we could just not include the episode in PH canon. Honestly, why do so many people seem to think that that fics have to constantly reinvent themselves to take into account every last bit of new show canon that we get? No, really, why? I don't get it, and it really annoys me.

Thank you, sir. And I definitely agree, it was an interesting episode, and that's all it needs to be. As with everything that's happened with the second and third seasons of the show, I don't see any reason why Somber should have to worry about it unless he actually wants to use something, such as what he's done with Cadence.

[Kippershy]

If only I coulkd trust you not to take me seriously, I would threaten to slap you silly.
instead, I hope you find a way to just relax and enjoy yourself. You definitely deserve to.

[SilentCarto]

Spoiler:

I doubt that a "reform spell" would actually mind-control the subject into changing their ways. It might just be like a Jiminy Cricket sitting on your shoulder, giving you a poke when you contemplate taking certain actions. Also, I think we've established that Twilight's library is anything but average -- I have this feeling that Celestia stocked it with books of useful magic and lore well before the Summer Sun Celebration, and that's not even mentioning the hidden compartment from TMPP.

Unrelated Tangent:

[Kippershy]

I feel stupid for needing to ask this.. but I've forgotten.

How did Blackjack meet Lacunae in the first place? Also, when did they meet?

lol

[CamoBadger]

I feel stupid for needing to ask this.. but I've forgotten.

How did Blackjack meet Lacunae in the first place? Also, when did they meet?

lol

The first time they actually met...I think it was when the went to the Star House for the first time and Lacunae was in there for some reason.
Other than that, she noticed Lac when she first woke up in Chapel. And when she was stalking BJ outside the museum.

[Vergil]

I feel stupid for needing to ask this.. but I've forgotten.

How did Blackjack meet Lacunae in the first place? Also, when did they meet?

lol

Lacunae was following Blackjack for a while (BJ kept thinking she was seeing Luna) until BJ found and confronted her in Star House, at which point Lacunae asked to travel with the group.

[Icy Shake]

Spoiler:

I doubt that a "reform spell" would actually mind-control the subject into changing their ways. It might just be like a Jiminy Cricket sitting on your shoulder, giving you a poke when you contemplate taking certain actions. Also, I think we've established that Twilight's library is anything but average -- I have this feeling that Celestia stocked it with books of useful magic and lore well before the Summer Sun Celebration, and that's not even mentioning the hidden compartment from TMPP.

Spoiler:

[Mister Nikel]

I don't see why people are so angry with this episode and want to remove it from canon entirely. Hell Somber himself said that he would never introduce the Crystal Empire elements but in this chapter we have them plain as day and they are a major plot element as a source for containing the Tokamare.

The way I see it this episode does not significantly break FO:E canon in any way. Look what the war did to the main six. Rarity became a necromancer, Pinkie a drug addict etc. Discord is a being of chaos. It can be easily explained that he fucked something up along the way and got turned back to stone. It would even add to the character of Fluttershy and add to the story's biggest morals of giving ponies a second chance. And to do better. And guess who that cheesy saying belongs to.

There are literaly hundreds of ways to write this in ranging from a simple mistake on Discord's part to a secret zebra plot to get rid of him. Once again the choice of the matter is for Somber to decide though. I will be content regardless of how it pulls it off when Discord finally comes back in a big damn hero moment.

[Kippershy]

>.> That's how they meet Lacunae? Shiiiiit.
Why do I never think to check this shit beforehand.

Ah well, nine months too late to change that to not be doing the same style, LOL.
And I learn this all because I forgot how they met.

[Guest]

@Mister Nikel

Spoiler:

[Harmony Ltd.]

Unrelated Tangent:

Well I have this headcanon / crack theory... Lemme quote myself from somewhere else :

Spoiler:

[Icy Shake]

I don't see why people are so angry with this episode and want to remove it from canon entirely. Hell Somber himself said that he would never introduce the Crystal Empire elements but in this chapter we have them plain as day and they are a major plot element as a source for containing the Tokamare.

The way I see it this episode does not significantly break FO:E canon in any way. Look what the war did to the main six. Rarity became a necromancer, Pinkie a drug addict etc. Discord is a being of chaos. It can be easily explained that he fucked something up along the way and got turned back to stone. It would even add to the character of Fluttershy and add to the story's biggest morals of giving ponies a second chance. And to do better. And guess who that cheesy saying belongs to.

There are literaly hundreds of ways to write this in ranging from a simple mistake on Discord's part to a secret zebra plot to get rid of him. Once again the choice of the matter is for Somber to decide though. I will be content regardless of how it pulls it off when Discord finally comes back in a big damn hero moment.

Some requirements:
Discord needs to be turned back into stone.
It needs to be done in such a way that they don't release him again--that is, it needs to be seen as a betrayal, or at least as indicative that he cannot be trusted with freedom.
--But also not such a bad way that Twilight would no longer be horrified by his containment and exploitation.
It would have to occur well before the war began, indeed before the trade disputes happened, because in a world with a tame Discord using his powers for good, a resource shortage could not exist.
Lastly, the nature of Discord's (apparent) betrayal/whatever would have to be hidden from Fluttershy in order to not entirely ruin her character (ludicrously naive, but not malicious) as presented in Fallout: Equestria: after seeing the fallout from trusting a known, violent (former) enemy to reform while maintaining massive magical powers, her leaking of megaspell tech to the zebras loses what little justification it ever had. If she's seen the situation happen before, she should at least be on guard for the possibility of her good intentions backfiring.

As to why I "hate" the episode, I'll add a short list. Why free Discord (what did Celestia want out of him); why do it now, rather than soon after the Nightmare Moon incident, when there wasn't another data point indicating that reform would be problematic; why does Fluttershy act like she is bound by her promise when it was one half of an exchange on which the counterparty immediately reneged; if you have reform spells, why weren't they at least a part of plan a; why was Celestia able to protect the Elements from Discord this time, but not last time, when she also had them in a protected location only she could access and which she did not expect Discord to be able to penetrate; why didn't Discord even make much of a go at escape (Discord Fluttershy, send her elsewhere, for instance, or just try to leave himself).

[Moodyman90]

Gonna throw some things out there to answer you Icy. Not all of them but what I see could be the answers to some.

@ Celestia protecting the Elements: Well she wasn't expecting Discord last time, and up until then there wasn't anything of his level of magic to protect the Elements from and thus didn't have a spell to protect them other then in a locked room in a chest. This time she knew Discord could and would do his best to get rid of the Elements again and thus why she cast the spell to protect them. And she did it before she let the others free him.

@Discords action: he's a spirit of chaos. To simply leave without destroying their plans would be against his nature. It's also his nature that prevented him from pulling the same stunt as last time. It's not random, would make him predictable, and it was also proven that doesn't really work because they pulled together at the end.

Not gonna touch on the other ones. I can only B.S. so much logic that works for me and chances are you'll take a chainsaw to what I've said already.

[O. Hinds]

Unrelated Tangent:

Unrelated Tangent:

Well I have this headcanon / crack theory... Lemme quote myself from somewhere else :

Spoiler:

Alternatively, I've a friend who's hypothesized that the natural pony lifespan is on the order of two centuries and that most of them just get killed long before that.

[Harmony Ltd.]

Maybe, but I don't like this interpretation much.

I liked my theory because it would have had interesting story potential, with Granny Smith becoming the "Patron Spirit" of the Apple Family and Ponyville.


Though since the latest Apple Family episode either Granny Smith isn't as aged as I thought, or the average lifespan of ponies is greater than I believed.

Either way, it would seem to contradict the Immortal Granny hypothesis.

[SilentCarto]

Maybe, but I don't like this interpretation much.

I liked my theory because it would have had interesting story potential, with Granny Smith becoming the "Patron Spirit" of the Apple Family and Ponyville.

I don't understand what interpretation of events would make Granny over 100 years old.

[Luminous Lead]

I don't understand what interpretation of events would make Granny over 100 years old.

Ponyville was founded because of the trade generated by the zap apple jam that Smith and her family were making.

And then if we remember back what our resident history/knowledge/magic buff said back in Winter Wrap Up

Ponyville was started by Earth Ponies, so for hundreds of years they've never used magic to clean up winter.

So, unless her knowledge is horribly wrong (and given her enthusiasm about the season and OCD tendencies I doubt she'd slack off studying) or the Apple Family are time travelers, there's no way Smith can be anything less than "hundreds of years" old.

[Derpmind]

Is there any point of timeline divergence were we can say "After this episode, FoE's stuff started happening?" Some point where the events after have to be different from the show?

[Plasticube]

Some requirements:
Discord needs to be turned back into stone.
It needs to be done in such a way that they don't release him again--that is, it needs to be seen as a betrayal, or at least as indicative that he cannot be trusted with freedom.
--But also not such a bad way that Twilight would no longer be horrified by his containment and exploitation.
It would have to occur well before the war began, indeed before the trade disputes happened, because in a world with a tame Discord using his powers for good, a resource shortage could not exist.
Lastly, the nature of Discord's (apparent) betrayal/whatever would have to be hidden from Fluttershy in order to not entirely ruin her character (ludicrously naive, but not malicious) as presented in Fallout: Equestria: after seeing the fallout from trusting a known, violent (former) enemy to reform while maintaining massive magical powers, her leaking of megaspell tech to the zebras loses what little justification it ever had. If she's seen the situation happen before, she should at least be on guard for the possibility of her good intentions backfiring.

So here is my current headcanon on this:

Spoiler:

what do you think?

[Valikdu]

This is... really quite fitting.

[Stringtheory]

So here is my current headcanon on this:

Spoiler:

what do you think?

you need to share your headcanon with us more often

[Moodyman90]

I have to say, that was pretty damn good and meshes well with FoE canon.

[Caoimhe]

Great synopsis! It reminds me that I need to find a new ending to all my writings other than "The bombs fall, everyone dies."

Needless to say, my college valedictorian speech didn't go over well.

[Stringtheory]

Great synopsis! It reminds me that I need to find a new ending to all my writings other than "The bombs fall, everyone dies."

Needless to say, my college valedictorian speech didn't go over well.

what kind of writing are you doing?

[Icy Shake]

So here is my current headcanon on this:

Spoiler:

what do you think?

There is a lot that works in it, and some that, I think, might not.

Spoiler:

I personally don't think that the synopsis offers a full reconciliation between the show and PH. Granted, it's my opinion that doing so at high quality would be impossible, as the late episode in many ways was a retcon (or at the very least a misuse) of his character and entirely changes the expressed views the Powers that Be held of him.

For a decent reflection on how I feel about the episode of itself, I suggest the most recent "One Man's Pony Ramblings" along with the first three comments (link through for the first; ctrl+f "keep calm and flutter on" to get to the relevant portion) for the expressions of some who, I think, feel similarly to me.

[Meleagridis]

Honestly, why do so many people seem to think that that fics have to constantly reinvent themselves to take into account every last bit of new show canon that we get? No, really, why? I don't get it, and it really annoys me.

You may as well ask why every named background pony had to have some significant place in the war. Why Blueblood survived the radiation that killed hundreds of others in the mansion. Why Blackjack found Octavia's old place, and why it was her that Rarity chose for her soul-cutting experiment and not some other washed-up musician. Half of the fun here is fitting in the characters we know so well into a foreign narrative like little puzzle pieces. When another chunk of lore comes out, we scramble to fit all the new pieces into the puzzle. Not because we need them to fit... more because it is fun to fit them in.
Sometimes people can go overboard... bend over backwards to fit something. But as long as you don't force anything, what's the harm?

The first time they actually met...I think it was when the went to the Star House for the first time and Lacunae was in there for some reason.

She lived there I think. BJ walks up into her stalker's home at random.

[O. Hinds]

Honestly, why do so many people seem to think that that fics have to constantly reinvent themselves to take into account every last bit of new show canon that we get? No, really, why? I don't get it, and it really annoys me.

You may as well ask why every named background pony had to have some significant place in the war. Why Blueblood survived the radiation that killed hundreds of others in the mansion. Why Blackjack found Octavia's old place, and why it was her that Rarity chose for her soul-cutting experiment and not some other washed-up musician. Half of the fun here is fitting in the characters we know so well into a foreign narrative like little puzzle pieces. When another chunk of lore comes out, we scramble to fit all the new pieces into the puzzle. Not because we need them to fit... more because it is fun to fit them in.
Sometimes people can go overboard... bend over backwards to fit something. But as long as you don't force anything, what's the harm?

None, but I've gotten the impression that it often is forced. I suppose that that could be based on a combination of bad experiences and high standards, though.

[Ketchup]

Lyra is fused to a bench in Canterlot. Not all of them get important roles.

[Meleagridis]

Lyra is fused to a bench in Canterlot. Not all of them get important roles.

She was also working in the MAS and was a guess on one of the trickster stars... actually, this one surprises me a little. Lyra was always a bit of a fan favourite yet she barely got any mention in FOE or any side story I've read. Most of the others with a name have gotten honorable mention. Hm.

But even getting fused to a bench is a deliberate callout- a specific reference to Lyra instead of an unfortunate nameless who was frozen in a position more standard. It's integrating the show. Not as drastic as adapting canon, but it's the same driving force. "Let's fit this in."

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