Re: Gun/Military Thread

[Frost]

It's really just a personal preference thing--I tend to enjoy shooting shotguns and carbines more than long-range rifles, and I've been wanting to get a hold of a Kel-Tec for a while. 

Goddamnit, I really need to get to bed.

[Ironmonger]

I was going through a history blog when I came across a gun that I had seen before, but never paid much mind. I present to you, the M1895 Colt-Browning MG. It's a machine gun that's relatively lightweight, and possibly represents the first use of a machine gun as tactical fire support for assaulting troops.

[StoneSlinger88]

Today I learned clay pidgeons need to be spaced farther apart than what I had them, because a 30-06 will routinely vaporize the one it hits and break any sitting next to it.

[StoneSlinger88]

Found SKS-M. Bought SKS-M.

Storytime with Stone

What is a SKS-M?

It's a Chinese Norinco SKS with a 16 inch barrel, and can accept AK-style magazines like the earlier SKS-D model. It has a shorter gas system, a larger gas port hole, no bayonet, and the bolt does not hold open (similar to the AK-47).

The one I found has a thumbhole laminate stock, which I found very comfortable, and the whole rifle is in excellent condition. A nice large-caliber plinker for the range.

It looks something like this:

[Harmony Ltd.]

I just had an... interesting idea, inspired, of course, by videogames:

Handgun ammunitions filled with high-explosives.

Probably not enough penetration to pass through bulletproof armor, but enough bang to seriously shock and hopefully put KO any opponent even through proximity detonations.

I suppose it'd only work with calibers like .45 and superior, though.


Imagine an SMG using such ammos...



And for added deviousness, make them shaped-charges...   

[Admiral Stoic Rum]

little semtex goes a long way...

[StoneSlinger88]

Well, it's a compromise. Russian rifle, made in America. A New England Westinghouse Mosin Nagant.

[Frost]

As an alternative to clogging up the chat thread with military-based discussion and humor, I shall cast my necromantic power upon this thread.

Spoiler:

[Harmony Ltd.]

What I walk in front off everyday as I go to werk.

30mm DEFA autocannon. How d'you like 'em apples?

[Vinylshadow]

I just had an... interesting idea, inspired, of course, by videogames:

Handgun ammunitions filled with high-explosives.

Probably not enough penetration to pass through bulletproof armor, but enough bang to seriously shock and hopefully put KO any opponent even through proximity detonations.

I suppose it'd only work with calibers like .45 and superior, though.

Imagine an SMG using such ammos...

And for added deviousness, make them shaped-charges...    

Wouldn't there be a chance for the force of firing the gun to cause the round to explode in the chamber though?

I'd say leave the explosives to the launchers designed to use them, like the Milkor MGL, M203 or M79

[Ironmonger]

Wouldn't there be a chance for the force of firing the gun to cause the round to explode in the chamber though?

That depends on the design of the ammunition and the nature of the explosive compound. Even if the explosive detonated prematurely, I doubt the force of the blast would cause a catastrophic failure of the receiver.

[Vinylshadow]

I wonder what kind of weapon it (explosive rounds) would work best with

Pistols?
Revolvers?
SMGs?
Automatic (Assault?) Rifles?

Doubt you'd be firing building-leveling explosives from a handgun (Although Rico's Signature Gun from Just Cause 2 has an underslung 30mm Grenade Launcher...)

I know for a fact I wouldn't be good with a pistol, my hands shake something fierce

[Ironmonger]

I wonder what kind of weapon it (explosive rounds) would work best with

Pistols?
Revolvers?
SMGs?
Automatic (Assault?) Rifles?

Doubt you'd be firing building-leveling explosives from a handgun (Although Rico's Signature Gun from Just Cause 2 has an underslung 30mm Grenade Launcher...)

I know for a fact I wouldn't be good with a pistol, my hands shake something fierce

The best infantry-weapon candidate for small HE rounds would be 12 Gauge shotguns due to their large bore, and thus large shell size, and their low chamber-pressures. However, since the original topic is about HE handgun rounds, the best candidate would probably be a 12.7 mm (.50 cal) SMG, if only because it's the largest handgun caliber that the established industry has good experience with.

[Frost]

There already are explosive rounds for a 12 gauge-- the FRAG-12 rounds are more a novelty than anything, but they work. 

Concerning chamber detonation--no, I don't see that being a problem. If a Bradley's 25mm or an Abrams' 105mm can go off without setting off the comparatively massive amount of explosive in the round, I don't see much of a problem with smaller rounds. The problem with that then is cost--you've got a pretty pathetic-sized explosion that, while lethal against soft targets, is going to be less effective against hard targets and, being fired from small arms, will still need to be carried en masse and won't be any more likely to actually hit the target--and every single one of those rounds is going to cost at least several dollars, compared to a matter of cents for a ball round. Doesn't sound like much, then you consider that the basic M4 combat load is 210 rounds. The SAW load, depending on unit SOP, is anywhere from 600 to over 1,000. Multiply that by the millions, even billions of rounds the military goes through--and that's just the 5.56 weapons.

[Vinylshadow]

Every armor has a weak point - joints, extremities, the neck

Cover up one weakness, you expose another

"She weighs one hundred fifty kilograms and fires two hundred dollar, custom-tooled cartridges at ten thousand rounds per minute.
It costs four hundred thousand dollars to fire this weapon...for twelve seconds."

War is expensive. What a shame we've evolved past flintlock rifles that slung highly-inaccurate iron balls.

Cannons became tanks, cannonballs became shells...

Boy, we sure love explosions, don't we?

[Frost]

Problem with "attacking the weakpoint"? That kind of accuracy is challenging for trained shooters in a controlled environment at relatively close range. At 300-400 meters, trying to hit a specific part of your moving, cover-utilizing, fire-returning enemy amidst the clouds of dust and debris that are being kicked up by all your explosive rounds' impacts? Good fuckin' luck.

[Vinylshadow]

I've sat here for about ten minutes trying to come up with a reply, yet none of 'em sound good

[Frost]

It's probably because one of is actually military-trained and the other damn near boasts about how he would be a poor soldier and has never shot a gun. 

Which calls into question who you bothered posting here.

[Silver136]

It's hard enough getting a shot off just playing a game like paintball. I'm not in the army, don't plan on joining, but I love guns and I've shot plenty. Shooting at 300 meters, especially without some sort of optic, is insane for hitting a specific weak point. With something like an explosive round or rocket? Well, you'd have to lead the shot and possibly compensate for drop perfectly to hit your desired weak point. I pride myself on my marksmanship and even I don't think I could do that without a ton of tries or using a weapon I'm extremely comfortable with.

[Frost]

You give me a 240B or L and maybe a decent MGO and I'll hit that shit every day of the fucking week, but I doubt automatic weapons are quite in the spirit of things.

[Silver136]

Well, I've never actually used any launchers or explosives. It's pretty hard to do that in a small town with no range for it. Given, I live by a military base, but all that stuff isn't exactly open to civilians.

[Frost]

The M240B and L models are medium machine guns. We don't actually use grenades or launchers as much as you'd think. Given how often civilians are present on our battlefields, we don't like that uncontrolled carnage

[Silver136]

Ah, duh. I was thinking of the M320 for some reason. My bad.

[Vinylshadow]

M203, M320, M302, M032, M023

Guns, knives, drugs and grenades

you'd think they would come up with a better naming system by now

[Frost]

Ah, duh. I was thinking of the M320 for some reason. My bad.

You're one of the only civilians I've talked to that actually knows what that is. Most seem to think that anyone, not just training brigades and the lesser-funded Nasty Girl units, is actually still stuck with the M203.

[StoneSlinger88]

Am underfunded Nasty Girl, can confirm.

Also got my hands on two Arisaka Type 99's for $100 total. Both in decent shape, one extremely early-war with the chrysanthemum intact, and one "last-ditch" with the mum ground off.

[Silver136]

Ah, duh. I was thinking of the M320 for some reason. My bad.

You're one of the only civilians I've talked to that actually knows what that is. Most seem to think that anyone, not just training brigades and the lesser-funded Nasty Girl units, is actually still stuck with the M203.

My father was in the military and retired several years ago, so he's taught me quite a bit about this and that. He's pretty much the only reason I know so much about firearms, explosives, shooting, etc. Of course I do a bit of research myself, but there's only so much Google can teach you.

[Silver136]

So this threads been pretty dead, and I feel like someone from a military background could answer my question. M14 DMR, good or bad? I liked it when I shot it, iron sight was great, kick wasn't bad, and it was pretty easy to get a feel for. Recommended?

[StoneSlinger88]

Never even touched one. But if you like how it feels, like how it works, is accurate and in the caliber that suits your needs, I'd say go for it.

[Frost]

The thread doesn't die so much as hibernate. Months of inactivity followed by flurries of intense discussion. 

Regarding the DMR, I've not had the privilege of getting my hands on one either. They mostly go to light units, rather than Mech units like mine.

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