Gun/Military Thread

[Ironmonger]

This a place to discuss anything relating to the military or guns, be it hunting, sporting, or military politics. Created partly due to some people (swicked I'm looking at you) having no interest in guns and making said people bored out of their minds.

I'll just start off with the classic AK-47 vs M16 argument. My favor mainly goes to the AK because it's possibly the most reliable weapon still manufactured. The 7.62x39 cartridge packs a hell of a punch compared to the 5.56 NATO, unfortunately the magazines are much heavier and longer. The plus sides of the AK are extreme reliability and firepower, and low cost to manufacture. Downsides are is it's morbidly obese for a modern weapon, the ergonomics are a little awkward, and the barrel wiggles so much upon firing that it's effective range is shorter than the M16, not to mention heavier recoil.

[Ketchup]

Depends on what you want in a firearm: stability, lightness and range for the M16/4, or simple ruggedness and ease of repair for the AK series.

[Ironmonger]

Pretty much. The M16 prioritizes performance and the AK prioritizes reliability. There has been some issues with soldiers and their M4 carbines, mainly Middle Eastern sand getting in the action and choking them up. According to some article I read it got the military looking for a successor to the M4. Some US soldiers have been using arab weapons in place of their standard rifles I think.

[IncoherentOrange]

Sand and mud are the ultimate hardships for a firearm, I'd figure, and AKs handle them better than pretty much anything many militaries use.

[Ironmonger]

The AK is a fine weapon just don't expect it to be a tack-driver. Sometimes I wonder where some of these countries get off with the bullpup designs. They seem a bit awkward.

[CamoBadger]

I'll keep my M16/4 thank you very much.
I've played with both, in military version, and honestly I hate the AK.
It's got a punch, that's true, but using it effectively is a nightmare. Putting it on semi minimizes the kick on it, but the accuracy is still bad due to the bolt being looser in the receiver, which is also why it can operate so well in dirt, there's more room for it to get clogged up before it will jam from that.
On auto however, just a 3 round burst almost knocked me off my damn feet, and I'm not exactly what you could call a little guy. I'm small, but 180lbs is plenty enough to hold me in place from weapon recoil, plus I know how to keep a pretty stable stance when firing, but I still almost fell on my ass.


As for countries using bullpups, it depends. Newer nations can kinda get away with it because their militaries are young compared to other countries, which means they can adapt to the design of bullpups quicker than nations that have had militaries using standard rifles. I personally don't like them, because as you said the designs are awkward to get used to, and the mechanisms and methods of clearing jams take way too much time to do. Plus most of the ones militaries actually use don't have an open bolt, so there is no way to know if it's loaded when you don't want it to be.

[Ketchup]

My father intends on getting our family an AR-15 for target shooting sometime, so we'll find out how those feel to fire with civvy rounds, anyway.

[Derpy Hooves]

Let's start with an instigator: Military service sucks.

I can shoot an AR-15 accurately, and a 9mm pistol slightly less accurately (IM A SHAKER!), I have shot an ak-47 for a short period durin one day, and an m60 many times. Neither of those were really trying they were just for fun. Also have shot one bullet from a .50 calibre sniper rifle, just because some redneck in wisconsin was allowing people to shoot his for $12 a bullet and it looked fun. I hit about.... 4 feet from the point I was aiming at!

There, that's my not-chronicled adventures away from my computer desk.

[CamoBadger]

Let's start with an instigator: Military service sucks.

I see your argument, and offer my own:
It depends on your point of view and personality. There are always points that suck, it's a given, but that can apply to any aspect of life. Going to school sucks, going to work sucks, etc.
But I can agree military service does have that one part of it that makes it suck more than any other (deployment), but it also has so many parts of it that are amazing. Some of the best friends I have I met in the military, and the fun you have with those guys is amazing. I honestly wouldn't trade those times for anything in the world.
You also really feel like your part of something important with the military. I know some people don't care about that kind of thing, but it definitely is a factor for a lot of people to know they're doing something important regardless of your job in the military.

So yeah, it sucks a little, but I think the positives tend to outweigh that for me.

[Ironmonger]

This thread got off to a good start, also Camo I forgot to mention that your avatar is adawable.

Don't get me wrong, I like the AR-15 platform I just tend to play favorites with the AK most of the time. When I actually get some money flowing in I intend on getting an AR-15 and a WASR-10 and modify them. I'm much larger than most people despite being a little short so I might be able to handle the AK better than most, and now I'm anxious to test that theory.

I also want to get a 45-70 lever rifle and a .357 carbine.

[Harmony Ltd.]

I think we all know who's going to win this match

Spoiler:

[CamoBadger]

Thank you for posting that chart, I love it

Also, we aren't talking about mosins, or the fact that shooting it more than 10 times leaves a bruise the size of Rhode Island on your shoulder.

[Harmony Ltd.]

Two men in, three men out.

[Ironmonger]

I wanted to get a Nagant myself after getting to observe Frost's 91/30. One of my ideas was to half-ass it and replace the part I chopped off with a really long rubber pad

[IncoherentOrange]

It'd be cool to get few Nagants, because they cost as much as a video game while an AR in Canada costs a grand.

[Frost]

I like my Mosin. It helps me compensate for my tiny penis.

As for AR v. AK, give me an AR every damn day of the week

[Ironmonger]

That chart seems like nothing but a set up for dong jokes using the Nagant.

[Frost]

Thank you for posting that chart, I love it

Also, we aren't talking about mosins, or the fact that shooting it more than 10 times leaves a bruise the size of Rhode Island on your shoulder.

$10, Amazon. Recoil pad. Problem solved, you're welcome

[CamoBadger]

Thank you for posting that chart, I love it

Also, we aren't talking about mosins, or the fact that shooting it more than 10 times leaves a bruise the size of Rhode Island on your shoulder.

$10, Amazon. Recoil pad. Problem solved, you're welcome

And ruin that beautiful piece of history? ARE YOU INSANE

[Ironmonger]

Thank you for posting that chart, I love it

Also, we aren't talking about mosins, or the fact that shooting it more than 10 times leaves a bruise the size of Rhode Island on your shoulder.

$10, Amazon. Recoil pad. Problem solved, you're welcome

And ruin that beautiful piece of history? ARE YOU INSANE

I guess the original weapon is history.

[Frost]

Thank you for posting that chart, I love it

Also, we aren't talking about mosins, or the fact that shooting it more than 10 times leaves a bruise the size of Rhode Island on your shoulder.

$10, Amazon. Recoil pad. Problem solved, you're welcome

And ruin that beautiful piece of history? ARE YOU INSANE

Undo the two screws holding the buttplate in. Remove buttplate. Place recoil pad in its place. Place the screws back into their respective holes. When you are looking to display or sell it, reverse the above steps.

There, you have a "beautiful piece of history" you can actually use comfortably, and you can put the buttplate back on there whenever you want.

[Ironmonger]

You can get a new butt for the AK as well, possibly upgrade it to make it better.

OOOH A BROHOOF!

[Frost]

You can get a new butt for the AK as well, possibly upgrade it to make it better.

OOOH A BROHOOF!

You'd probably have an aneurism if you looked at the market for AR stocks.

Glad about the brohoof. At least somepony's getting them *grumble*

[Derpy Hooves]

Let's start with an instigator: Military service sucks.

I see your argument, and offer my own:
It depends on your point of view and personality. There are always points that suck, it's a given, but that can apply to any aspect of life. Going to school sucks, going to work sucks, etc.
But I can agree military service does have that one part of it that makes it suck more than any other (deployment), but it also has so many parts of it that are amazing. Some of the best friends I have I met in the military, and the fun you have with those guys is amazing. I honestly wouldn't trade those times for anything in the world.
You also really feel like your part of something important with the military. I know some people don't care about that kind of thing, but it definitely is a factor for a lot of people to know they're doing something important regardless of your job in the military.

So yeah, it sucks a little, but I think the positives tend to outweigh that for me.

You weren't supposed to answer! I wanted the uneducated 14 year old patriot with the red dawn poster to scream at me about how he could kill me in 17 different ways!!!

GOD LYRA YOU'RE SUCH A BUZZKILL!

[Ironmonger]

GOD LYRA YOU'RE SUCH A BUZZKILL!

This explains that report I read about someone being beheaded by a table saw.
Anywho anyone got some opinions on handguns? I like .45 pistols personally, looking into getting a Glock.

[CamoBadger]

GOD LYRA YOU'RE SUCH A BUZZKILL!

Please see the quote in my sig, everything will make sense.


@Ironmonger: Personally, I would agree with the .45 or go .40. If you go with a 9mm I will crap on your doorstep. I'm not going to say anything about your choice on Glock, except that I hate them.

As for a recommendation: look at the XD series (XD9, XD40, XD45). My dad's got one, and we both love it. They're very safe, easy to use and maintain, very reliable, and all together extremely well made guns.

[Frost]

You weren't supposed to answer! I wanted the uneducated 14 year old patriot with the red dawn poster to scream at me about how he could kill me in 17 different ways!!!

GOD LYRA YOU'RE SUCH A BUZZKILL!

Let me oblige you.

You little pansy ass commie fag! I've watched Red Dawn and Act of Valor enough times to know that I could kick your ass all the time! Bitch!

This explains that report I read about someone being beheaded by a table saw. Anywho anyone got some opinions on handguns? I like .45 pistols personally, looking into getting a Glock.

I'm more a rifle/shotgun guy myself, but I'm a fan of Glocks and the Beretta 92. Not a revolver fan at all.

[Ironmonger]

Please see the quote in my sig, everything will make sense.


@Ironmonger: Personally, I would agree with the .45 or go .40. If you go with a 9mm I will crap on your doorstep. I'm not going to say anything about your choice on Glock, except that I hate them.

As for a recommendation: look at the XD series (XD9, XD40, XD45). My dad's got one, and we both love it. They're very safe, easy to use and maintain, very reliable, and all together extremely well made guns.

Good luck with that, I have like 12 cats guarding my house as well as a yappy Yorky-Poo.
I'd likely get something in .40 for concealed carry, maybe a .45 long slide for duty. My brother and grandpa carry a 9mm pistol. I like 9mm for being cheap but it lacks power, good deterrent seemingly.

One of my beliefs is that a pistol cartridge usually has no business in a carbine unless it's at least a .45 or .357.

[Frost]

I like 9mm because I am far more accurate and fast-firing with it than with .40 or .45. Camo, if you've got a problem with that then, my dear friend, you can suck a big one.

[CamoBadger]

I do have a problem with it. I can do pretty damn good with a 9mm, but I still don't like the round. Not enough stopping power, not even remotely, and when you're at close range, which handguns are meant for, that is a bad thing. Call me crazy, but if my gun doesn't have enough power to kill a pitbull, I don't want to use it on humans. (no, I'm not exaggerating. Buddy of mine in law enforcement had to kill a pitbull that had been attacking people in a town and his 9mm took 2 shots to get through the skull. The first got stuck in the bone).

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