Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

[FeatherDust]

So I've been doing done thinking about what Project Horizons is. It has to meet a list of requirements. Here are my thoughts.

1. When activated, PH is some serious bad mojo even in a Wasteland context.

If it were something that could kill the eater pretty cleanly (by waste standards), like say it involves nuking the entire core, there would be no penalty for activating it blindly in Goldie's cottage basement. It would make the story from then to the end feel a bit shaggy-dog. Feels bad if we could have had a happy ending twenty-plus chapters ago, had BJ been a bit more reckless (if that's possible). Therefore it must be horrendously bad news, to be used only after proper preparations are made. (My brother suggested that it may be necessary to force a complete evacuation of the Hoof by using the Core security system to fire randomly all over the place.)

2. But we are still going to use it.

This one is arguable, but I think at this point we have to see Horizons activated. It would be a real letdown if it were just a worldkiller superweapon. It must have a laudable purpose, or at least can be turned to one.

3. PH is bad enough to horrify Luna.

She was only mildly upset by Chimera, fine with tapping Discord-juice, and okay with slaughtering thousands at a blow with megaspells, but this was just way over the line, summary execution for Goldie. This is why I dismiss the moon base idea; I can't see that freaking even Luna out so badly.

It might be particularly horrible for her because of personal reasons, but if it isn't at least "really bad" to a reasonable bystander, I think the reveal is going to fall flat. My pet theory is that PH creates and empowers a new Nightmare Moon, thus something to be used only when both princesses are dead and all hope is lost, and putting the world under a new tyrant is better than the alternative.

It could be a moon base with a worldkiller superweapon, perhaps. But that conflicts with point 2; I don't see how you would use such a thing in the story.

[Kippershy]

@Erump:

Spoiler:

@Inco:

Spoiler:

And hum... I don't get it, I ought to be a lot more calm than I am right now, still feeling somewhat ticked. Likely due to a friend of mine not seeming to be able to grasp why them being hypocrites, telling me to do things they refuse to do themselves could possibly make me upset. Along with why a seeming incredibly obvious lie could be seen as offensive... nor why after they say they had to "prioritize" certain things, they removed everything I cared about and saw as important, even placing a text going "unf unf unf" as high priority than said pile of things, spending more time overall on one detail for two seconds than the entire flash on three whole other objects just to name some of them... yeah gee, I wonder why I could be upset by that.

Only related because of this post, but like I say, I don't want it to be so strict you can't even reply to something quickly --

Every time you say that you wish Keeper had been the one to sleep with Blackjack, my eyes go shifty for a moment.
...Especially since one of the variations on my nickname IS Keeper. (Ah, good ol' Sammy when we used to get high together..)

[222222]

@Kattlarv: it seems I have misinterpreted a few of your posts, something for which I am sorry but take no personal responsibility for. Anyways, one possible explanation for Stygy's stamina is that physically he is strong, and after he got off four or five times he could just keep going physically, and since it takes some time to recover between goes, if he didn't stop it could have seemed to Blackjack that he had good stamina if most stallions in her vault only had to finish once or even not all because they where used to it, so she interpreted being able to keep going past several orgasms as high stamina. As for Psychoshy, I don't feel like her actions where out of character at all. She showed continual sexual obsession with her ghoul daddy, and then he abandoned her and got killed. Her personality was built around being obsessed with a Stallion with control, and Stygius clearly exuded the confidence associated with control, probably because he was a prince. The prince part came out of left field to be sure, and did seem rather gratuitous and plot drivenly coincidental, but hardly a character breaking trait. Maybe they only let the royals leave the batcave? Then it doesn't become so contrived. Finally, maybe Blackjack will bang Keeper? Blackjack does have a reputation as a lecherous mule to upkeep after all.

[OneMoreDaySK]

No idea if this would do anything, but what if the batponies are actually split up into several mini-kingdoms? And he's only the prince of a minor kingdom?

[222222]

I doubt there would be separate kingdoms because of how small the population is hinted to be. Possibly different factions, which are each one family with a king, queen, princes, etc. so a royal title is fairly common, but due to tradition and all that it's still highly regarded. That seems likely in my opinion, as the factions could still intermarry and support each other, but there would be a lot more royals running around.

[Caoimhe]

I see Styg and PS/Whisper not working out almost immediately due to her mania and Styg's inexperience, let alone everyone else involved in the 'underworld.' This could yield some very funny comic moments.

[tylertoon2]

"semi-mute living dildo prince" is my new favorite Kattlarv quote.

Anyway I can agree that the whole Styguis thing (Forgive me I can't spell weird names) came way outta left field. But I think that we are reading way more into the sex than we were expected to. I think the problems with Styguis arises in that he wasn't supposed to be a character to focus on when Somber was writing him. A means to an end, get Blackjack some help with her fears, have a companion that will be able to get them through Hightower, and get Psychoshy worked out and put on a bus for a while.

(This is what I assume anyway so don't take my word for it)

Not that it's an excuse however if it is the case. I think that either way Somber might not have totally dropped the ball but he did stumble here (Which can be expected when you are writing a story this fucking long). He handled the situations and the character in a way that seems completely out of place IMO. That being Styguis as a fairy tale prince that gets the fair maiden(s) and is a total all around badass which I can enjoy sometimes (What can I say I grew up watching James Bond).

As for Blackjacks praise of Styguis. The only reason I could see it making sense in his eagerness. Something she would haven't have had with 99 stallions. Or Caprice if we are on the same ball. Otherwise it doesn't make sense. (And honestly would be funnier if she kept telling how awful he was in bed)

I don't know. Other than no matter what way you spin this, it still has flaws.

[tylertoon2]

I see Styg and PS/Whisper not working out almost immediately due to her mania and Styg's inexperience, let alone everyone else involved in the 'underworld.' This could yield some very funny comic moments.

Oh yeah. It's pretty clear that for Whisper, Styg is just a replacement for Sanguine for her to obsess over. Meanwhile do to Styg's upbringing of arranged marriages and what not he probably doesn't find it irresponsible to make huge commitments with mares he doesn't even really have a lengthy relationship with. I can imagine with in the next couple of weeks they could be tearing each-others hair out.

[quote]

Swicked wrote:
Somber's response was that yes, P-21 is dark and wants to do bad things, and that's exactly why he doesn't get to have his way. Why he defers to Blackjack at all times.
In an interview once Somber clarified that characters aren't people; they are characters. They are tools to be used in a story.

Exactly, this is where I think the whole problem arose in the first place. We were expecting Styg, Blackjack, and Phycho to an extent to act like people not characters. Which is an easy thing to do. Then again however, I would have felt better if Somber did more to subvert this sometimes.

[Icy Shake]

I tend to look at P-21's going along with what Blackjack wants somewhat differently. Specifically, I think of it as linked to his refusal to use guns: it's another method--a tool, if you will--that he uses to be the pony he wants to be at the expense of doing the things he wants to do. And I don't think that this is especially inconsistent; while of course he has at times chafed under her leadership (up to and including kidnapping her and strapping a bomb around her neck, heh), he strikes me as one of the deep thinkers of the group, capable of separating and weighing his desires (and this becomes more true as the story progresses). And considering his repeatedly-stated admiration for, basically, the fact that Blackjack tries so hard to do the right thing, always, I think that, in a sense, he's using her as a means to self control that he might otherwise lack (think of the execution of the mine overseer...).

While this surely isn't the ideal way of preventing yourself from doing things you'll live (Or perhaps not; it is the Wasteland, after all.) to regret, I believe that the recognition that he may need such a crutch--even one that hurts at times--is actually an admirable quality (if indeed what I see is a reasonable reading of PH), not a weakness in his character (as a tool for storytelling, not his moral fiber [though it doesn't hurt there, either]).

[Randombuttons]

Whoa, I see I wasn't the only one with similar concerns afterall!

Oh, and this exchange between Lacunae and BJ about Rampage:

“Ugh... what is with her?” I said as I glanced up at Lacunae.
“Perhaps she feels you’ve had an inappropriate relationship with Stygius, given
your affection for Glory. Or perhaps she feels you are using him in a
way that is going to hurt his feelings. Or maybe Rampage respects you a
great deal and is having difficulty accepting that you are not as
perfect as she’s perceived.”

This quote particularly stuck with me because it has asserted my belief that Stygius would be more involved of a character - or I should say a person. The way he became a plot device just shook me. I can't associate what became of him during his last appearances with what I came to know as Stygius - of course, it's part confirmation bias because I'm so invested in the story myself.

[Caoimhe]

Somber said he's coming back so this isn't the last.

[Randombuttons]

Somber said he's coming back so this isn't the last.

I'm only afraid that it might basically be for the final boss battle. We were given him just long enough to miss him and question the validity of his actions as a character (or as the person we see in him) that lead to him leaving to help the plot. Here's to it working out in favor of the story.

[CannonFodder]

I'm only afraid that it might basically be for the final boss battle. We were given him just long enough to miss him and question the validity of his actions as a character (or as the person we see in him) that lead to him leaving to help the plot. Here's to it working out in favor of the story.

That's probably what is going to happen. I have a feeling if the eater is a eldritch abomination then it would take more than just blackjack to kill it.

[OneMoreDaySK]

@CannonFodder
Chapter 34: Birthday [First part]. That is all

[CannonFodder]

@CannonFodder
Chapter 34: Birthday [First part]. That is all

What I was thinking as well.

[Luminous Lead]

@CannonFodder
Chapter 34: Birthday [First part]. That is all

You mean?

It was too big. Too much. Even for me. And the glowing ponies around me agreed in their song.

But that was the point…

Of course it was too big for one pony. For one anything! That was why
the single star with its single note had failed. Not even these
glowing stars could keep back the darkness alone. It was when they
worked together, combining their songs and changing… growing… that they
could drive that vast and terrible darkness back.
Harmony, not power,
was their strength. Life, not destruction, was how they won.

Looking back, I've noticed something I glossed over before.

With magic and sorcery, the zebras called forth the fallen star and bade it rise.

And what was the Pony motto just before the balefire?

Hoofington Rises.

[FeatherDust]

Looking back, I've noticed something I glossed over before.

With magic and sorcery, the zebras called forth the fallen star and bade it rise.

And what was the Pony motto just before the balefire?
Hoofington Rises.

Yep. Also argh; I meant to call that out specifically in my "Cliff's Notes to the Star Vision" post a while back and then totally forgot to do so.

[FeatherDust]

Oh yeah. It's pretty clear that for Whisper, Styg is just a replacement for Sanguine for her to obsess over.

I kinda disagree here. Going with Stygius was Whisper, for the first time, making a real decision on her own. She's never had to before; Sanguine made her decisions for her, and then she attached herself to Blackjack, who also made her decisions for her. This choice was the first time she took her own destiny in hoof. She actively chooses to go into a situation she can't possibly be prepared for.

I think in some part Whisper is a catch-22. There's no right answer. Staying with Blackjack means continuing to let others steer her life regardless of her own thoughts on the matter, replacing blindly following of Sanguine with blindly following Blackjack. Going with Stygius means she's replacing her obsession with Sanguine with a new relationship to obsess about.

All I can say is that at least this relationship is actually reciprocated (and reciprocating, if you know what I mean) by a pony with a good heart. I'm not saying it's Twoo Wuv, but it's a chance for Whisper to leave her whole life behind and start new. No Fluttershy, no Psychoshy, just Whisper. Of the two options, I honestly think that was the better one. She'll have tough times ahead for sure, but I think she's got a better chance of getting back on an even keel down there than she would up here.

[Caoimhe]

I'm going with Whisper being a gold digger, she becomes infatuated with those in power roles to help her self esteem since she still isn't satisfied with her identity.

[Randombuttons]

As it is, it's hard to claim anything as far as Whisper goes. (And I still don't get the turn Stygius's character made to pair up with her.)
If I count on the story not going on for too long, my bits are on this being an actual overhaul of mindset from Whisper's part. But nothing's particularly out of question, and I'd like to read something like what Caoimhe said. More conflicts!

---

That chapter 34 quote is something I actually didn't remember, you have my thanks for mentioning it.

On an unrelated note, I'm skeptical about the late
inclusion of Queen Chrysalis - if it were to really happen. But first, I want to magically make the search function do my bidding to see if we have already had this discussion.

[Kattlarv]

@Kipper: Actually, Keeper wasn't my idea, but the concept of it amused me enough to stick with it hehe. And heh, okay xP

@Eru: It's fine, I'm used to it. I seem to be terrible at explaining stuff in general. Anyhow, moving on: And no, that is not a legitimate excuse/reason. By that standard, all (generic) nerds should last very little, along with about all (stereotypical) females and all body builder and whatnot ought to be able to last for ages and just keep going. Sexual stamina to my experience is not linked with physical stamina overall. And from all I've read about it. As said, if is a chronic masturbator, then maybe, he overall seemed to be loose. Or at least was way too "teen horny" overall. And uh... no. The stallions in 99 were TRAINED and breed solely to satisfy the mares. They either got a high ass stamina or endurance. As said, they got like what... 1-2 hours with each mare and had to satisfy her needs. And this they had to do several times a day. A stallion aiming for stamina and not endurance (I think that is the difference) would be a very bad one unless for mares that had a fetish to be inseminated, even even then they'd do poorly as they'd be low on sperm all the time. Overall, being able to go for that hour or how long they now had without cumming was probably even preferred by some mares. They got satisfied, and their plaything didn't make a mess. Besides, his orgasm is unimportant unless they need to get impregnated. Giving him time to recover and avoid orgasm in between mares. If assuming they had 8-12 hour work shifts, possibly in 4 hour shifts. You'd be left with a stallion pleasing 8-12 mares a day, giving them countless orgasms, and likely getting off 1-3 times himself if the mare allowed him to, to prevent blue balls and stuff like that. Going with comparing a stallion like that to one like Styg we'd have one that services mares good, having either 1-3 orgasms over the course of the day. Or one having 56 to 84 a day, doing a poor job of servicing mares as he's too busy getting himself off. (as said, he needed a break in between every orgasm) Now, tossing in an "average Bob" that gets himself off every time, then that is 8-12 orgasms a day. Even cut up in shifts, we get: 1 during one shift, all but one shift or once each shift for the first one. 42 during each shift, or 28 during each shift (if going with 2 or 3) or the last guy, doing 4 each shift, a total of 8 or 12 depending on the shifts. Now, I don't have a dick, or know too much about em, but I can tell they ejaculate less and less each time, just like for me. And they get more and more sore each time, not too much like me. But in the end, which one do you think would last the longest?
->
As said, P-21 said some bucks hurt themselves on purpose (possibly by calling Daisy fat or saying she had a small pussy xD) so they could recover and rest. And I guess the bucks got at least 1-2 days off to just recover, since as said, the male body (and female) can't take too much sex in a row, it gets worn out. But that would still be 5 times a week working like this. BJ has little to no reason to even be mildly impressed by Styg. After all, all he can brag with is being good at getting himself off, and is able to do it a lot as well. To compare to human standards, it's about like a female prostitute being known for being able to get herself off quickly and get too spent to keep having sex afterwards, or just being fully focused on giving herself orgasms, that you eventually cum is just a bi-product. And/or giving lousy oral and refusing to swallow, alternatively snowballing you. Like... yes, I guess some might be into that. And I know BJ is the runt and complete social misfit/retard of 99, but still. Only thing she could be impressed at could be that he came so fast, but as said, such thing should be seen as a piss poor quality in 99. So it's a bit like her being amazed at a poorly designed gun (as said, Styg was "at least not too bad" performance wise) made out of paper-mashe. (fuck spelling today xD) Like yeah... it is a bit impressive that they made it out of paper, but what the fuck is it's use? And uh... no, that was OOC for her. She did not have a sexual obsession with Sanguine, or did you miss her big "What? I never thought of him like that, he was like a father to me." ... or am I mixing it up with something else? I am at least quite sure she explained that she was not sexually attracted to Sanguine, it was just her only friend. And uh... Styg had ANYTHING but control, and confidence, he was a shy stumbling overly horny guy. Even that statement made her out to be super-shallow, only liking him for his having maxed Cha and looks, and only liking him after finding out he was a prince, along with claiming she has about no balls and her being dependant on a man to protect her, so to speak. I put that out poorly, but all up until Styg, and even with Sanguine around, she was brash, "brave", defensive and yadda yadda, she only show her weaker side to Sanguine whom she deeply loved (as a father). All that was thrown out to make room for a more "suitable" timid mare that would fit to be Styg's obedient wife. (and yes, I am just overdoing it, but she was remade a ton from her personality in just two days.)
->
And again, all up until that part, she snarled back any anyone that insulted her in the least way. She made snarky comments. (and yes, she found yesterday that it wasn't too appreciated, at least not said to "friends" of BJ) So then, she gets called something among the lines of a cheap, slutty whore. Her reaction? "HEY! NO ONE INSULTS STYGIUS GLORIOUS COCK! IT'S NOT SMALL!" to which BJ concludes in her mind "Why yes! He do have a marvellous dick. That Styg sure is hung. In fact, he's the only pony's endowment I've ever bothered to mention anything about until now, fuck my marefriends package... cept for Deus, his junk I got a good look at... mmm... long, hard penises..." (again, I am overdoing it just a tad bit xP Actually not really any at all on the Psycho part though sadly.) I deal enough with shit like this in the art and fic department xD ... this technically counts as a fic, but it's not a clopfic, so it doesn't really count. As for only "royal may leave" it would make sense if it wasn't for the "hurr, no you should know better, you're not a retarded, honry male like your brother" (aka: you're female, you should know better, despite the fact I just made a braindead comment) part in the alternate ending. I know it wasn't the "canon" one, but even the mention of it being planned just shows more than enough for me. In said case they have a very stupid governing style imo. "Let males do fuck all, leave responsibility to the females!" As said, this isn't the only thing that people ignore the opposite off... it is quite apparent I recently had another argument about this, isn't it?

@Tyler: Yay, I made sense, or well, some use xP
Overall, I think Somber has a huge problem with wanting to glorify and do things "over the top". As said, Styg would have been a MUCH better character as some nobody that sucked in bed. Would have been way more interesting character play instead of the "Oh he's so awesome, amazing and wonderful!" we have now. Heck, I can see her in the call to Glory like, mentioning to P-21 "You won't believe how terrible he was! He was even worse than you your first time, it took him two hours to even find my clitoris!" or something, then mentioning it every time they did the other, having Styg shrink back and blush in embarrassment. And if going with a more organic PsychoStyg relation, she could have been all "Bah, you just have to break him in/I'm sure you just need to rein him in and teach him the ropes." If Psycho now really was after a trophy coltfriend, she would have had no problem teaching him "his place". If anything, it would have been more cuter than the "I am price awesome!" we got. And as said, so far from all bar Rampage, all relationships has been stallion on top and dominant. As said, Psycho apparently needed a stallion, and who knows better what type she wants then herself? Could even give her a new character arch where she turns out to have learned to take others feelings into consideration, not everything is about her. Not this "Discord poke" and poof! she was miraculously cured! of not being a good little mare.

@Swicked: As said, that is part of a problem with how Somber writes tbh. Especially with how she went on about the shit how BJ needed to be more "like a true female" and gave her some new out of the ass personality traits. To me, it's a problem to use them as tools, it ends up with "PC character" syndrome. They don't think, they are not rational, they just act cuz "plot convenience" or "just cuz". To me, part of making a great character is being able to "act" for that character. I have no idea how Somber thinks as said, other than she uses "It NEEDS to happen" elements. To me, logic wise in that, I see it about as logical as P-21 finding a mare disembowelling and raping a colt, to which he charges in and... starts fucking the other end of the colt, then they high hoof and pound the foal to death, because P-21 NEEDED to do that to get off, it had been weeks since he had an orgasm, and it helped him get over his hatred for mares. (on a relevant side note, P-21 kinda support my "they didn't get off often" theory, as otherwise, he would be a endorphins junkie quite likely) Or Rampage suddenly starting to torture stallions to death along with raping ponies whenever she felt an "itch that needed scratched" or even worse: bent over and asked nearest stallion to mount her, being a happy little cumslut since "she NEEDS to get over her rape trauma, and that is totally the best way to do so.", obviously going a bit overboard, but about half that in logic wise some of the things Somber have made characters do have I seen it as. Then stop being characters there and become cardboard. P-21 progressed with his conditions, he has changed slowly over the coarse of the fic. He doesn't only bitch, whine and hate everything. He's not a stereotype in that sense, yet they are hurled in in so many places with a "This is how they are, cuz I say so!" not entirely unlike a (extreme, stereotype) homophobes perception on gay males: "They want to fuck every single male they can reach! That's just how they are." while not technically accurate for this occasion, it is not far from imo. It's very "MMO" about it, there's full of generic fucs that are all the same since they were programmed like that. Then there's the few non-generic people who actually have names and a personality other than a stereotype or/and predetermined one. Which as said, to me has lead to quite a bit of terrible balance along with sexism. It's very D&D in the term of ex: "All mares that are not key characters are lawful good!" and I am rambling off again. I prolly explain this badly, bleh. They just feel like robots at times. "Beep beep, I'm generic male #36, chose program: 1: Rape. 2: Fight or die. 3: Swear. 4: Other social interaction. 5: Eat, sleep and etc.", "Beep, and I am generic female #17, please input orders: 1: Cry or woe, possibly fight or die.. 2: Get raped, violated or otherwise. 3: Forgive ponies, or otherwise reminisce about bad stuff. 4: Be kind. 5: Eat, sleep and etc." But yeah, being told Psycho is currently more or less a mindwiped robot with no personality or free will, just there for the sake of a plot device makes me go "meh". I guess the writing style works in some occasions, but as said: It doesn't for character interaction.

@Cao: I know, he said before they currently were discussing with king fucktard/thickskull about the fact they were more or less inbreed morons and needed to get new genetic material. While I see a couple of options, it somehow feels like they will pick the most retarded one. But in the other hoof, Styg being a demigod, he might just manage to convince them to join the wasteland in... something. Being allied to BJ anyhow. Also, while Psycho being a gold digger actually would give her 3 times the character depth she got now, it wouldn't work as Styg was just some strange fuck up until the moment she decided to come with him. She was demanded to have feelings for him and wanting to be hers ever since she saw him. Erf... finally done... *faceplants*

[Randombuttons]

That comment. Was amazing.

She did not have a sexual obsession with Sanguine, or did you miss her
big "What? I never thought of him like that, he was like a father to
me." ... or am I mixing it up with something else? I am at least quite
sure she explained that she was not sexually attracted to Sanguine, it
was just her only friend.

I'm not sure if you can take what a "somewhat psychotic" character says about their feelings as granted, although it'd make sense. One can always pull up a psychological excuse for why she'd have hidden feelings - not unlike how you could reason with batpony physique or anatomy for why BJ was impressed by Stygius's performance.
It wouldn't be a satisfactory answer or turn of events, of course, and neither would it serve the story well. I'm with you on what you said.
I, myself, originally thought that his character would be revealed methodically, along with his own background that lead up to the point in present when "we" meet him. Then suddenly, a slap to the face from both sides!

[Kattlarv]

(Double post, but, this does better on it's own. And bear with me, just tossing first grade speculations) I just came to a realization if said statement is correct, which quite a few things lean towards. Since as said, all characters "accept" and blindly does anything Somber wants to happen, even if it goes against their personality, which now is partially proven non-existent. But it does kind of explain any relation in PH. (even including FlutterBlood) They didn't do it since they loved each other, needed it or anything, they only did it since they were made to or told. Or "needed" to as said. Somber needed ex: Fluttershy to be with Golden for plot convenience, thus forced them together with that sole reason as an "acceptable one". Gotta say that takes a lot out of the story for me if they're just treated as tools with no regard whatsoever to personality, current mood or desires. They are just forced to do what fit the story. Not really unlike having brain washed people enough to commit suicide if asked. Actually, tbh, that is not far from it. Going with I'm more or less read stuff that could sum up as someone lethally allergic to peanuts to eat a bag of peanuts, they blindly do, gets fucked up, but then the part we are supposed to feel sorry for them breaks it for me. As it did when I didn't even knew this possible part. If you have no regard to their personality or character overall, force them to do things just because you want to write them as that, I have to say I just can't follow past that. A bit like seeing someone having brainwashed two children, then ties one up and tells the other to hit the first, which it does blindly, then have that someone going "Feel sorry for the first one! They just got hit!".

Erf, I dunno, I know it would just be a fic in either way however it's done. It's just the "forcing" of thinking I dislike. It's not "What would BJ do..." now it is "What do I wish/need for BJ to do?" if that makes sense. Just find it blargh to not take that into consideration. Think other roleplayers might understand. It's like the difference from hearing a scene like "village under attack, stuff happening, you get to your house, barging in through the door to the burning room, looking around into the building starting to catch fire, you see your younger brother lying on the kitchen table, a dagger in his chest, barely moving. He weakly turns to you, lifting his arm towards you, trying to speak, but he is far too weak, only weak coughs coming out from his mouth. What do you do?" with a character you're immersed in, going: "Okay, I don't have any ranks in first aid or doctor, so I can't do shit about that. I still need to find a weapon and ration for my character, so I search the kitchen for loot I might need. Oh! I also check my brother, does he have any gear on him?" to me that is just bad roleplaying. And tbh, that is about the vibe I am getting currently. Especially with how so many actions have been reckless when a immedeatly safer and obvious choice could have been picked instead.

@Random: You think? I kinda do things like that every now and then.
Anyhow, I can totally see her having problems. It's that she got rid of ALL her problems and changed her personality entirely in one-two day/s I have a hard time seeing. As for Styg, BJ wasn't impressed by him. That was the point, she said he was quite crappy right after the sex scene. As about "could be worse at least..." then the next thing she does is starting to brag how good in the sack he is. When she literally just told herself politely he was crap, more or less. But yes, I also hoped he would get some redeeming values, along with a good personality and background like Somber tend to pull off, then just throws this shit up instead. Can't recall which chapter, but at some point, Somber let go off all restraints of trying to keep it canon with FoE (it was when FoE was done), and we saw a shitload of wild stuff. Then it gradually got worse, then tables were flipped creativity wise once more. Then she kept going, Black came along trying hard as fuck to be as stereotypical and generic it could in several aspects, while staying away from being bland in some parts. Then more stuff happened, then Somber got some "revelation" and had to make BJ "female", and this is where the whole Styg fiasco started. As said, I got no clue on it. But if I'd guess, she asked a straight, submissive female from the city, subjected to stereotypes, gender norms and all that, basing BJ on a straight, submissive human female from the 20'th century from after that point. As said, entirely just a guess. But after that chapter BJ had picked up a dozen new quirks and traits she didn't have before, and reminded me a lot more about a sub, straight friend I have. Which is affected by societal norms and stereotypes. But again, as said, just a wild guess for me.

[Randombuttons]

That was the point, she said he was quite crappy right after the sex
scene. As about "could be worse at least..." then the next thing she
does is starting to brag how good in the sack he is.

I can't seem to find that part - it doesn't change the point, though.

I just came to a realization if said statement is correct, which quite a
few things lean towards. Since as said, all characters "accept" and
blindly does anything Somber wants to happen, even if it goes against
their personality, which now is partially proven non-existent.

You can find solace in the fact that it doesn't seem to work out, so treating characters purely as tools isn't the right option (uh, phrasing these things is hard). It certainly doesn't do justice to the characters - especially since the more you develop one, the more you have to stick with what you've already estabilished. Altogether, a reader might feel cheated hearing Somber's supposed view.

Then more stuff happened, then Somber got some "revelation" and had to
make BJ "female", and this is where the whole Styg fiasco started. As
said, I got no clue on it. But if I'd guess, she asked a straight,
submissive female from the city, subjected to stereotypes, gender norms
and all that, basing BJ on a straight, submissive human female from the
20'th century from after that point.

I think I see what you mean - it doesn't match Blackjack, it's not the normal psyche for her. Unless she was hit by the magical two-day dust of character shuffling as well, hahah.

Project Horizons has grown to be one of the fanfictions (universes) I cherished the most. With the coming of the latest chapters, I'm in a struggle - hearing these views does help putting it in place.

[Caoimhe]

Wait, what is this "make Blackjack 'female'" stuff all about because I never noticed much of a character/motivation shift or anything that seperated the fact the she wasn't female enough before or after.

[Randombuttons]

Wait, what is this "make Blackjack 'female'" stuff all about because I never noticed much of a character/motivation shift or anything that seperated the fact the she wasn't female enough before or after.

I'll rather not point out anything because the chapters aren't fresh in my mind save for a few scenes. I'm sure Kattlarv'll have got you covered, or me later on if I run an eye over the chapter - I just don't want to say anything that wouldn't actually count as what has been mentioned.
If I'm not mistaken, it's present rather visibly even during the first appearance of Stygius in her behaviour.

[222222]

@Kattlarv: at one point Psychoshy put her tongue in Sanguine's mouth and made out with him, so yeah I would call that sexual. Your first large block of text I am widely in agreeance with, the Stable Stallions would have a much harder time getting off than Stygius. That is exactly what I said in my first post. However I was just saying that Stygius got off several times but kept going anyways, which may have impressed Blackjack. Not because he got off, but because he kept going afterwards. I'll admit it's a weak point but it's the best I've got. Really I have to concede that champion in bed part, that made little sense as a statement of truth, but I could still see it as just nervous chatter, she had to something about the sex to Glory but Blackjack is not a bitch and would not insult Stygius while standing right in front of him, so she just made that up. Still, you are right if the champion in bed comment was supposed to be legit.
About Psychoshy solving her problems, when did that happen? Sure she ran off with Stygius, that doesn't mean she got better or even that she is in a good relationship. Like I previously mentioned, Psychoshy built herself up as Sanguine's most important, intimate tool. Now Sanguine is dead, so while Psychoshy is brash she needs some other Stallion to be the most important intimate tool for. P-21 is obviously out of the question, there weren't any other male party members besides Stygius, so she latched on to him. Stygius, being rather naive to the general fuckupedness of the wasteland, only saw this as genuine affection and reciprocated. To me it makes perfect sense.
All that about characters being tools vs people I don't even have an opinion in, I'll have to get to work on that.

[Luminous Lead]

I'm of the opinion that with all the shit she goes through (stable brainwashing, drug addiction, being taunted by 200 year old ghosts, taint infestations, severe sexual and physical mutilation, death lobotomy, cybernetic transformation, getting kissed by frigging Discord, getting cyber-mind hacked, serving as someone's server backup, going insane from sleep deprivation, using a sword harmonized with a soul-destroying eldritch abomination, death [again], and getting Unity-mind hacked) it's surprising that she's as well adjusted as she is and a few "out of character" moments aren't really all that unexpected.

That's not even mentioning the multiple concussions she seems to get PER DAY.

All fallout characters must have the most resilient brains.

[222222]

^Extremely valid point. It's a miracle that she is even cognizant of reality anymore. Unless she isn't...

[Vergil]

I'm of the opinion that with all the shit she goes through (stable brainwashing, drug addiction, being taunted by 200 year old ghosts, taint infestations, severe sexual and physical mutilation, death lobotomy, cybernetic transformation, getting kissed by frigging Discord, getting cyber-mind hacked, serving as someone's server backup, going insane from sleep deprivation, using a sword harmonized with a soul-destroying eldritch abomination, death [again], and getting Unity-mind hacked) it's surprising that she's as well adjusted as she is and a few "out of character" moments aren't really all that unexpected.

That's not even mentioning the multiple concussions she seems to get PER DAY.

All fallout characters must have the most resilient brains.

I am now manually remembering that Blackjack is in SERIOUS need of a hug.

[Sponsored content]