Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

[Caoimhe]

She needs to be treated to a dress and a fuckin' tea party. MAKE IT SO!

[O. Hinds]

^Extremely valid point. It's a miracle that she is even cognizant of reality anymore. Unless she isn't...

Aaaaaand here come the epileptic trees.

[Luminous Lead]

^Extremely valid point. It's a miracle that she is even cognizant of reality anymore. Unless she isn't...

Aaaaaand here come the epileptic trees.

Nah, we already had the "It was all a dream" chapter. We also had the "It was all a computer generated illusion" chapter as well. Plus, that sort of thing voids tons of character development and usually inflames the fanbase. Somber wouldn't do that to us or the story.

[Caoimhe]

I don't think the Happyhorn scene voided any character development. In fact, that was a crucial point for BJ.

[222222]

@LuminousLead: vreeoom right over his head.
@Caiomhe: I think he meant a "it really is all just a dream" reveal would void character developement, even if just applied to certain aspects, and I agree.

[Caoimhe]

P-21 right now is at an interesting point. I think it'd be neat for him to get "lost" while others try to find him and in doing so he goes on some sort of short self discovery quest. Have a switching viewpoint between Blackjack and P-21. It'd be interesting if it's in the will of Somber.

[Luminous Lead]

I don't think the Happyhorn scene voided any character development. In fact, that was a crucial point for BJ.

Happyhorn was well done. It was contained within a chapter and followed Blackjack's rebellion against a reality that she felt was wrong. It was a time of discovery and coming to terms with what she'd done.

I'm arguing against the notion that she's been out of it for a long time. Like, ever since Black (ch33) for example. A ton of character development for the side characters (P21's relationship with his daughter, Rampage's relationship with herself) has occurred since then, so I imagine it would piss off a bunch of people and only hurt the story if it were just a brain damaged illusion.

[Caoimhe]

I don't think the Happyhorn scene voided any character development. In fact, that was a crucial point for BJ.

Happyhorn was well done. It was contained within a chapter and followed Blackjack's rebellion against a reality that she felt was wrong. It was a time of discovery and coming to terms with what she'd done.

I'm arguing against the notion that she's been out of it for a long time. Like, ever since Black (ch33) for example. A ton of character development for the side characters (P21's relationship with his daughter, Rampage's relationship with herself) has occurred since then, so I imagine it would piss off a bunch of people and only hurt the story if it were just a brain damaged illusion.

OH I see what you're saying. Yeah, I don't think Somber would do that to everyone.

[O. Hinds]

^Extremely valid point. It's a miracle that she is even cognizant of reality anymore. Unless she isn't...

Aaaaaand here come the epileptic trees.

Nah, we already had the "It was all a dream" chapter. We also had the "It was all a computer generated illusion" chapter as well. Plus, that sort of thing voids tons of character development and usually inflames the fanbase. Somber wouldn't do that to us or the story.

I thought that crazy unlikeliness was part of the nature of epileptic trees?

[CannonFodder]

I think it mostly works for everyone buy P-21 and Scotch.
Rampage is entirely, 100% directionless and self-loathing. She sees Blackjack as a beacon to follow, whether she does good or evil. She gets upset when Blackjack does something that doesn't live up to her expectations of who Blackjack is supposed to be, but... Blackjack is still good and trying to do good, so Rampage will follow her.

Glory loves Blackjack and, for all her very occasional aggressiveness, will follow Blackjack's lead. She's always been more of a follower and, at the very least, hopes to help mitigate a little damage but, more than anything, support Blackjack when she needs her.

Lacunae is under orders to do what Blackjack says. Simple as that.

Boo couldn't care less.

Scotch will follow her dad's lead, since he's now her primary caretaker in this messed up world.

P-21, I'll say again, was actively rebelling against mares. He hated mares. He wanted his freedom. He would do anything to survive and still wishes to mete out vengeance on those that prey on the weak like some kinda messed up pony batman. Recently, though, after losing priest and so much else... he's tired. He just wants to keep Scotch safe. If he had any say in the matter I would expect he'd be done with the group. Long past done. Blackjack's fight has never been his. P-21 was just going with her barring anything else to do and with a desire to find a nice place to die. He doesn't want to die now, and the fight for anything more than as calm and pleasant a life as can be found in the wasteland should really have been beat out of him a long time ago.
If Somber wants P-21 to stick around, I can only figure it to be by putting Scotch in danger. Vice-versa for Scotch, though P-21 would likely be unhappy with her being put in danger for his accord, particularly considering she doesn't really add anything fight-wise.

Rampage is one of my favorite characters in the fallout equestria universe. However, yeah she does what Blackjack says. I have a feeling it's more of how Rampage doesn't know who she is and such. Once Blackjack copies enough of her memories that should either help Rampage's problems or at least give Rampage enough self identity to help her psychotic breaks.

I wonder what is going to happen to Lacunae when the goddess dies. We're probably going to find out soon. How long until you all think the goddess dies? Personally I think it's going to be some time in the next few chapters, isn't that going to be a interesting chapter.

Why do you all think Boo is becoming more intelligent? Is it possible that the clones do have souls and that they just weren't given stimuli to actually need a reason or want to think more? If that's true then it'd be interesting to see where she ends up in the long run.

Personally I'd rather see "father" P-21 than whiny complainy "mares suck" P-21.

[Cptadder]

P-21 right now is at an interesting point. I think it'd be neat for him to get "lost" while others try to find him and in doing so he goes on some sort of short self discovery quest. Have a switching viewpoint between Blackjack and P-21. It'd be interesting if it's in the will of Somber.

He hasn't viewpoint swapped once in the entire fic thus far... I don't see that changing.

Exactly, this is not Game of Thrones with a new POV each week and getting into the heads of each and every pony we meet along the way. At best we get audiologs and memory orbs... and brain dives like Blackjack is doing to Rampage at the moment. However we get BJ's reactions during all of those except the brain dives which seems to be BJ living those events not observing them as third party observer... something that would frankly worry me if BJ was not so emotionally scarred at this point that it would just be a few new cuts atop the old.

I wonder what is going to happen to Lacunae when the goddess dies. We're probably going to find out soon. How long until you all think the goddess dies? Personally I think it's going to be some time in the next few chapters, isn't that going to be a interesting chapter.

We are one to two chapters away from the Goddess getting a balefire bomb to the tank per the narrative flow as the story of FoE and PH run at similar speeds at similar times.

[CannonFodder]

We are one to two chapters away from the Goddess getting a balefire bomb to the tank per the narrative flow as the story of FoE and PH run at similar speeds at similar times.

I have a feeling we're going to need popcorn cause this is going to get interesting.

[Cptadder]

We are one to two chapters away from the Goddess getting a balefire bomb to the tank per the narrative flow as the story of FoE and PH run at similar speeds at similar times.

I have a feeling we're going to need popcorn cause this is going to get interesting.

Since Lacunae was introduced I have looked forward to this moment for... thirty chapters now? Any Alicorn character in any FoE side story that is pre-Goddess kaboom fascinates me because it's a literal God is dead moment.

[Caoimhe]

Hmm, does that make Littlepip Nietzche?

[CannonFodder]

Lacunae will cease to be. Everything she is is made up of the memories of others, which will go back where they came from after the Goddess is no longer around to hold them within Lacunae. Whatever is left will not be Lacunae anymore. I'm mostly curious who THAT pony will be.

Because Boo is unique. Somber even stated as much once. We figure it's because she has a soul.

So does everyone.

Isn't Lacunae mostly cut off from unity though? It's going to be weird cause if her isolation from unity prevents all of the memories from transferring back to their original bodies that's going to probably break her. My money is she's going to be somewhere in between Lacunae and Psalm personality wise.

That raises the question of was a freak of accident? Created through abnormal means? Or is a soul the combined experiences of a being as it grows and goes through life? Is the reason why there's feral ghouls because their souls where blown out like a candle under the breaking of the equestria waste as it slowly breaks ponies down?
. . . I'm getting too metaphysical

Any Alicorn character in any FoE side story that is
pre-Goddess kaboom fascinates me because it's a literal God is dead
moment.

Make sure to bring popcorn for this show.

[Caoimhe]

For your own reference: There have been 77 references to Scoodle in PH so far. The only chapters that doesn't mention her are 1 (obviously), 13, 15, 18, 20, 22, 24, 25, 27, 28, 33, 35, 36, 40, and 42.

The epub I have doesn't go past 45 though.

[Luminous Lead]

Rampage is one of my favorite characters in the fallout equestria universe. However, yeah she does what Blackjack says. I have a feeling it's more of how Rampage doesn't know who she is and such. Once Blackjack copies enough of her memories that should either help Rampage's problems or at least give Rampage enough self identity to help her psychotic breaks.

Rampage follows Blackjack much in the same way that Steelhooves followed Lil'Pip. Feeling themselves tainted after being in the hellscape for so long (not that kind of taint) they relied on their heroes for moral guidance. They reacted pretty much the same way to finding out their paragon wasn't perfect ("What the hell, ___?") They are both extremely old and not exactly mortal. Here the similarities end. While Steelhooves was stuck with his head in the past and unable to move on, Rampage is stuck in the present and unable to look back. Both situations are kind of terrifying in their own way. I only hope they don't share the same fate.

I wonder what is going to happen to Lacunae when the goddess dies. We're probably going to find out soon. How long until you all think the goddess dies? Personally I think it's going to be some time in the next few chapters, isn't that going to be a interesting chapter.

For some reason the official timeline is missing the point at which LP nabs the balefire bomb, but that happened back in CH34 for Horizons. Using this timeline , if you place bomb acquisition on the second lost day, that would leave a little under two weeks (12 days) until Maripony blows (ironic, since we now know that Maripony actually contains a Maripony). Considering that one of the last things the Goddess does is send her "children" away to save themselves, and considering that when she is cut off from the Goddess she is pretty much her own pony, I'm thinking that Lacunae will probably be alright. She certainly won't have to deal with more emote dumping from a clique of 200 year old narcissistic cysts.

Why do you all think Boo is becoming more intelligent? Is it possible that the clones do have souls and that they just weren't given stimuli to actually need a reason or want to think more? If that's true then it'd be interesting to see where she ends up in the long run.

I'm thinking that with souls being real and nearly tangible things (well, they can be transferred into objects and can apparently float freely, e.g the soul motes) as well as being divisible (as proven by Rarity), it's entirely possible that souls "rub off" onto other beings. Natural-born foals, being formed and carried for months within their mothers wouldn't have much trouble with this, but "blanks" would have no such benefit. While the question of whether or not Boo started with a soul (given her penchant for self-preservation) still remains, it seems that Blackjack is having a good influence on her (and likely the most influence, considering how loose her soul is).

Now that's a thought. Do those who have come close to death have more of an influence on those around them because their souls are looser? It would certainly explain how Blackjack and Lil'Pip have such a high pull, they're dying all over the place.

Personally I'd rather see "father" P-21 than whiny complainy "mares suck" P-21.

That seems to be the way things are going, too. Most of his prior angst stemmed from a fatalistic lack of control in his own life, as well as his major drug problem. Having a non-toxic and actually LOVING family relationship seems to be doing wonders for him. He'll still follow Blackjack, as he has an obligation to keep his "sister" safe (and of course the last time he left her alone she nuked Hightower and died again), but I doubt he'd be enthusiastic about Scotch taking the field. This is good, too, because Scotch has a lot of work to catch up on in Chapel.

[CannonFodder]

I see it like this: the Goddess made a bottle, stuffed all the bad memories inside it (and continues to stuff them into it, I might add), and is holding down the stopper. Psalm's soul's just the one carrying the bottle around... a bottle so insanely large it's all but crushing this little mare we've never really seen beneath it all. Lacunae is "cut off" from unity in that she's at the end of a mostly one-way telepathic road.
The second the Goddess is no more that bottle is going to burst and everything is going to go back. Whatever is left, if ANYthing is left, is not going to be someone we recognize, because she's been buried under thousands of other ponies' thoughts, feelings and memories this entire time.

I smell a upcoming help Psalm/Lacunae get herself back together chapter. Personally I think it's going to be like Seven of Nine from Star Trek. All of a sudden being removed from a hivemind even though she has a unique personality would take years for her fully recover from and begin to develop a full personality.

I don't think it's going to be "bam now she's Psalm" more of Psalm adjusting to no longer being Lacunae.

[Caoimhe]

Enjoy this handy chart for reference (I am bad at Excel)

[OneMoreDaySK]

Rampage is one of my favorite characters in the fallout equestria universe. However, yeah she does what Blackjack says. I have a feeling it's more of how Rampage doesn't know who she is and such. Once Blackjack copies enough of her memories that should either help Rampage's problems or at least give Rampage enough self identity to help her psychotic breaks.

I wonder what is going to happen to Lacunae when the goddess dies. We're probably going to find out soon. How long until you all think the goddess dies? Personally I think it's going to be some time in the next few chapters, isn't that going to be a interesting chapter.

Why do you all think Boo is becoming more intelligent? Is it possible that the clones do have souls and that they just weren't given stimuli to actually need a reason or want to think more? If that's true then it'd be interesting to see where she ends up in the long run.

Personally I'd rather see "father" P-21 than whiny complainy "mares suck" P-21.

You think she follows Blackjack because she doesn't know who she is? I really think it's more because she doesn't trust herself anywhere except right next to the one mare in equestria capable and willing to stop her every time her psychosis drives her to hurt others unnecessarily. A mare that she call follow to stay on the (mostly) straight and narrow.

Lacunae will cease to be. Everything she is is made up of the memories of others, which will go back where they came from after the Goddess is no longer around to hold them within Lacunae. Whatever is left will not be Lacunae anymore. I'm mostly curious who THAT pony will be.

Because Boo is unique. Somber even stated as much once. We figure it's because she has a soul.

So does everyone.

To me Lacuna seems to be a singular pony that is pressured by the guilt and stress of Unity. She does cope and learns from the experience, and as Blackjack said, had every other pony within Unity been subjected to similar, they would end up a lot more nicer. So it will be interesting to see who she is after nuke-day. Will all the memories and guilt just rush out of her and back to the originals, or will they gradually fade?

Rampage on the other hand is a conglomeration of ponies that were originally apart, and swap the controls depending on the situation, until Blackjack got most of the known ones working together. To me it seems like she might do something akin to Dog/God and have a sort of mixed-soul for those wanting to remain. Kinda really want the AoD out of there though, and will probably be the toughest to deal with.

With P-21 I like this kind of character of single father. It reminds me of what Linkara ranted about with Red Arrow before they killed his daughter off, made him an addict again, and then rebooted the universe without her. Linkara stated that the comic makers wanted to make the guy a more 'interesting' character. Yeah, because grim, dark, and angsty characters haven't been overdone. /sarcasm

[Luminous Lead]

I smell a upcoming help Psalm/Lacunae get herself back together chapter. Personally I think it's going to be like Seven of Nine from Star Trek. All of a sudden being removed from a hivemind even though she has a unique personality would take years for her fully recover from and begin to develop a full personality.

I don't think it's going to be "bam now she's Psalm" more of Psalm adjusting to no longer being Lacunae.

I could see that. (A bit of adjustment, I mean, she already seems to have developed most of a personality, if not a complete one)

I'm hoping it'll be as dramatic as possible. Literally,
she responds as if she just had a stroke. She collapses to the ground,
paralyzed, and her brain has to figure out how to connect everything
back together. She might even have amnesia for a while, being incapable
of accessing her own memories after having to swim through so many
others' for so long. The balefire bomb that's being set off on the
Goddess is also going off on Lacunae's very mindscape. Massive amounts
of reconstruction will be required (although, realistically, she will be
cured within a day or two at most, because she has to be to keep the
story going).

We've already had the "mind-dive-to-save-catatonic-lacunae" where Blackjack slept with Trixie, drank with Twilight, and fended off zombies with Psalm. Fun times :D

[OneMoreDaySK]

@Luminous Lead
But that was for Lacunae, and to help deal with all the guilt. Which is probably where she got the Soul-STD of Psalm-Dreams from. This is going to be an new(possibly old) character we'll see.

[Luminous Lead]

@Luminous Lead
But that was for Lacunae, and to help deal with all the guilt. Which is probably where she got the Soul-STD of Psalm-Dreams from. This is going to be an new(possibly old) character we'll see.

Soul STD :D Reinforces my idea of loose souls, if they can just rub off like that.

The other Alicorns are all puppets of the goddess, but Lacunae is the isolated outlier. The Goddess doesn't seem to want much to do with her, only dropping in now and then to check on her new prospect (Blackjack). I would draw parallels with how the Highlanders were treated in old Equestria. Sure, there were relations when Equestria wanted highlander coal (what little there was), but other than that they were cut off and left on their own, and were completely alright with their mother nation getting blown to shit.

[CannonFodder]

Soul STD :D Reinforces my idea of loose souls, if they can just rub off like that.

Maybe their souls should have worn something to protect itself.

[Randombuttons]

Oh god, we're doing soul science now. That's hard to grasp. If only BJ had read more books, we too would know more about the matter.

[CannonFodder]

Oh god, we're doing soul science now. That's hard to grasp. If only BJ had read more books, we too would know more about the matter.

Well maybe if other ponies would stop shooting at blackjack for ten seconds.

[Cptadder]

Oh god, we're doing soul science now. That's hard to grasp. If only BJ had read more books, we too would know more about the matter.

Well maybe if other ponies would stop shooting at blackjack for ten seconds.

Hey you want to survive Hoofington? Best way is to join Blackjack's group. The only way to join Blackjack's group is to share your tragic backstory and shot Blackjack. Most ponies forget the first part so eager they are to get to the second part.

[IncoherentOrange]

I wonder how much of Blackjack wouldn't set off a metal detector by now.

[O. Hinds]

Is it possible that the clones do have souls and that they just weren't given stimuli to actually need a reason or want to think more?

No; the blanks were tested and found soulless, and it doesn't look like that changed since the test. A more pertinent question is whether Boo either has or is developing a soul; she's obviously not like ordinary blanks, but it remains to be see just how unlike them she is.

That raises the question of was a freak of accident? Created through abnormal means? Or is a soul the combined experiences of a being as it grows and goes through life? Is the reason why there's feral ghouls because their souls where blown out like a candle under the breaking of the equestria waste as it slowly breaks ponies down?
. . . I'm getting too metaphysical

You're not, actually. In PH's universe, souls are physics, capable of being scientifically detected and studied (at least in theory; despite soul engineering seeing some development during the war, the field of… soulology? seems to have been mostly neglected, as far as we know).

[RandomBlank]

17:00 <%Somber> 20p in on 52!

EEeeeee!!!

I really hope this means he found something that's helping.

Yes, and I even know what.
The mysterious substance is known as S03E01-02.

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