Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

[Vinylshadow]

Fallout: Equestria was the movie

Project Horizons is the Saturday Morning Cartoon

If Somber had toned down character development of other characters, that would encourage other authors to write their own stories on them and eventually have them tie into Horizons as a whole

Give them a vague overview that's open to interpretation and let others handle the burden of fleshing it out while Somber builds the main story around Blackjack

[Silver136]

Fallout: Equestria was the movie

Project Horizons is the Saturday Morning Cartoon

If Somber had toned down character development of other characters, that would encourage other authors to write their own stories on them and eventually have them tie into Horizons as a whole

Give them a vague overview that's open to interpretation and let others handle the burden of fleshing it out while Somber builds the main story around Blackjack.

Sure, that sounds like a good idea, but then you get a ton of continuity errors. The author writing about this guy says this happened because Somber hasn't gotten there yet, then Somber gets there and this happens instead kinda thing. Now if other authors got Somber's input on it, like Somber did with Kkat regarding Homage, them it'd be a really cool thing. But people are selfish or shy and I couldn't ever see that happening.

[Icy Shake]

Caiomhe, I was expecting you'd say something along these lines, and I agree with a lot of it. I have a few caveats, though. On the point of it seeming to shrink the world in general, insofar as you have Project Horizons in mind as secondary to FoE (at this point I'm at most personally ambivalent on that front, more inclined to seeing PH as my primary interest), that's a battle already lost in the cave party, which drew together people from a larger section of the Wasteland, some of whom didn't have any preexisting connection to Littlepip. Also, Blackjack and her immediate group were already more integrated into the groups involved, and at least the story pushes things on the all gathering for you front back a level by having many of them already/very recently brought together by Cogjack—that still leaves them all assembling for "Blackjack," but Cogs at least has the right personality and motivations for that. It's still not the best supported, as I said, to an extent it's pushing things back a layer, but it's something.

As for flattening the characters, there  was certainly some of that, and I'd add that in at least a couple of cases there were people there whose presence was either coincidence (the crew of the Seahorse, in that it happened to be where their route had them at the time—there primarily for the plot, to deliver the news about Folly, but also fanservice with Thrush and Pisces) or for the party specifically, rather than the underlying operations (the Daft Punk ponies).

One place I think this went right, given the giant gathering happening, was in making Blackjack very explicitly the one who assembled them and the agenda setter, but not deeply involved in strategic or tactical planning, with the exception of the contingencies around Tom (which themselves required getting Folly first . . . ).

I agree. Also, you would think there would be smaller warbands scattered here and there that would try and take advantage of the gathering of supplies in one location and try to raid them. Here's hoping we see something like that when the battle actually starts off and we see some peoples true colors come out. I mean, in all honesty, BJ still has alot of enemies even with the people she has gathered (Mind you not the heads most likely but definitely some of the grunts) and I would like to see some things fall apart once everything is underway. Or maybe I'm just a sociopath who hasn't had enough sleep..

I could see some of that happening, and it would be interesting. But the timing would be crucial, as I'd really rather not see anything along the lines of the perspective and timing mishmash from the Battles of Fillydelphia/Neighvarro/over Manehattan.

Fallout: Equestria was the movie

Project Horizons is the Saturday Morning Cartoon

If Somber had toned down character development of other characters, that would encourage other authors to write their own stories on them and eventually have them tie into Horizons as a whole

Give them a vague overview that's open to interpretation and let others handle the burden of fleshing it out while Somber builds the main story around Blackjack.

Sure, that sounds like a good idea, but then you get a ton of continuity errors. The author writing about this guy says this happened because Somber hasn't gotten there yet, then Somber gets there and this happens instead kinda thing. Now if other authors got Somber's input on it, like Somber did with Kkat regarding Homage, them it'd be a really cool thing. But people are selfish or shy and I couldn't ever see that happening.

Going beyond that, one of the major strengths of PH is its cast of well-developed and interesting minor characters. By going with this method, you'd be significantly weakening the story and the setting, and in the process making people less interested in even writing the things to fill them out in the first place.

[Vinylshadow]

Just pointing out that having a handful of people design and create a project as vast as Horizons might have been better if it was spread out over several intertwining stories written by several authors instead of a serial series as it is now

[Scienza]

Just pointing out that having a handful of people design and create a project as vast as Horizons might have been better if it was spread out over several intertwining stories written by several authors instead of a serial series as it is now

I'm going to disagree. In my opinion, one of primary reasons why PH has worked out so well is because it's written by one guy with one artistic vision (and a bunch of really swell editor types). If there had been anything else, I think it would have collapsed and fragmented long before this point. Due to the huge amounts of writing that the writers would have to do to create even a divided PH, it's inevitable that the various authors interpretations and goals would eventually conflict. What if, say, Somber wanted to characterize Sanguine as a tragic character lost in the past and his own regrets, but I thought that his background and motivations would be better realized if he was a sexy studmuffin with chest hair so fine that all the ponies want in on that. Between chapters, you'd suddenly jump from Blackjack comforting him as he remembers his lost family to the whole party fantasizing about rubbing their faces in that wiry copper chest hair. You'd just end up with too many continuity errors and a whole buttload of inconsistent characterization.

That said, the beauty of Fallout Equestria is that nobody owns a monopoly over the canon, and that includes Somber. If you feel that you want to explore or develop Hoofington in a different way, you're free to do so. There's certainly a lot of Horizons popping up throughout the multiverse.

[Laperlazus]

Just pointing out that having a handful of people design and create a project as vast as Horizons might have been better if it was spread out over several intertwining stories written by several authors instead of a serial series as it is now

I would find that really, really annoying.
Seriously, there's nothing that pissed me off more as a kid when I read the latest Batman comic and it ended with "Story continues in Justice League America issue 73", then when I got that, "Story continues in Superman issue 82", then finally "Story concludes in Aquaman issue 4", etc.
I want all my story in one place, personally.

What about something like 52? Where it's multiple authors and multiple stories, but it's all marked as "52" and every author has put some work into every issue?

[Scienza]

@GondorCallsForAid
While there is some truth to the argument that the "everybody comes together" scene makes the world seem smaller, I'm with Swicked on this. Blackjack's legacy isn't going to be that she was a messiah figure who single-handedly stopped Horizons and vanquished all evil in the wasteland, it's going to be the indirect effect she's had on all the people in the Hoof that brought them to this moment. When Blackjack sees Dazzler, she sees a pony that she knows and has affected directly, but along with her are the dozens of Flash Fillies whose lives Blackjack has shaped for better or for worse. Ditto for everybody who showed up for the grand war boogie. It's not just about them, it's about everybody in the Hoof that they represent. The world is shrunk down to a personal level while still maintaining that sense of expanse.

Or perhaps I'm just biased because that scene made me really happy in a sugary feely kind of way.

...and I also think we all know a lot of these characters aren't going to survive this war. Somber could have potentially just referenced them as groups as opposed to individuals, but he might have felt it better we actually "see" them one last time.

I take it back. You all are monsters.

[Vinylshadow]

Kkat's given us a Sandbox to play in

But it's not as fun when one person takes up 2/3 of it

Of course ponies are going to die

It's war, and you know how the rest of that goes

[Vinylshadow]

Well, Blackjack's not going to be there to view it, unless Cogjack goes Palpatine on us and lets her watch her friends die...

"That's no moon..."

[Scienza]

Kkat's given us a Sandbox to play in

But it's not as fun when one person takes up 2/3 of it

Um, no, he hasn't. PH uses one city (and surrounding suburbs) out of the massive number of possible settings that FoE can provide, and even then, it's Somber's headcanon that doesn't necessarily need to apply to any story outside of PH. Plenty of side-story authors ignore it, and those that do use PH still often exclude farther reaching stuff like the OIA so that they can take the universe in a different direction. When someone builds a sandcastle in a sandbox, you can choose to add on to it or knock it down so that you can build something new. The metaphor kind of breaks down here, since it's more like there are hundreds of parallel-universe versions of the sandbox and Somber's castle is perfectly fine it at least one of them, but the point is, nobody's monopolizing Fallout Equestria. What Somber's done is just work persistently on making his version as developed and polished as possible.

Of course ponies are going to die

It's war, and you know how the rest of that goes

Yes, but that doesn't mean I can't be sad about it.

swicked

What about something like 52? Where it's multiple authors and multiple stories, but it's all marked as "52" and every author has put some work into every issue?

...while I think it could be interesting if Somber were to announce a side-stories writing "contest" where people could write their own arcs regarding the final battle of Hoofington from the perspective of different characters with Somber's approval, then take the best ones and link them in the chapter or something, that would be a lot of work and might distract from the main story. Maybe that'd be better to save until the story was done, if at all. I dunno.

That could actually be really fun. I'd be game if it ever happened.

[Vinylshadow]

A Castle of Sand:

Hm...a structure worthy of Her Royal Majesty Queen Whiskey, perhaps

Hm...PH always felt larger than just the Hoof to me...granted, the suburbs are going to have their own names and social structure, so that might be why

[Scienza]

That could actually be really fun. I'd be game if it ever happened.

I think I wouldn't mind trying my hand at a sky battle with Psychoshy and Stygius backed up by allied Enclave against the IcyHot twins and their Brood forces.
Or wherever Psychoshy is supposed to end up per Somber's plans.

...I really like Psychoshy.

Aye. The only problem so far is just that most of us don't really know how the ending is going to play out, but it could be a really nice thing to do after the ending as a sort of "saying goodbye to a major part of my life" ceremony for us.

[Vinylshadow]

Make a list of ponies and get ready to start crossing off names

A storm is coming:

Hm...if Whisper and Glory live through this, I can see them settling down with the Bat Ponies...help them acclimate to the new Wasteland

[Somber]

I spent all morning writing... computer crashed... MS Word didn't save it.  Dunno why... So, yeah.  Bummed.  Because writing something a second time always, always sucks.  So yeah, eight pages gone...

Also, PH isn't going to have the same ending as FoE.  I wish it did.

Oh, chapter 7 of Broken Accords is in Icy's Hooves.  So hopefully up later.

[Vinylshadow]

Ctrl+S is a writer's best friend

[Caoimhe]

I'm at an airport nursing the largest and most expensive long Island ice tea I've ever seen to prepare for a ln 8 hour flight but I'll just say that Broken Accords is excellent so far and I F5 it on fok fiction every day. I'll touch on everyone's points when I'm sober.

[Somber]

Ctrl+S is a writer's best friend

I did that several times.  It auto saved.  But then I got a BSOD and had to hard reboot twice.  The file was gone when it came back up. 

[Vinylshadow]

Have you considered using a Flash Drive to store stories?

[WavemasterRyx]

I spent all morning writing... computer crashed... MS Word didn't save it.  Dunno why... So, yeah.  Bummed.  Because writing something a second time always, always sucks.  So yeah, eight pages gone...

Also, PH isn't going to have the same ending as FoE.  I wish it did.

Oh, chapter 7 of Broken Accords is in Icy's Hooves.  So hopefully up later.

*nuzzles just barely* I'm so sorry you lost all of your hard work, sir...

[StoneSlinger88]

Ctrl+S is a writer's best friend

I did that several times.  It auto saved.  But then I got a BSOD and had to hard reboot twice.  The file was gone when it came back up. 

Ouch. I'd try plugging in a flash drive or external and saving it there every so often as well, as a just-in-case measure. I go with Google Drive as well for class projects, makes things easier if I forget my laptop or a flash drive to transfer to printers.

[Vexd]

Also, PH isn't going to have the same ending as FoE.  I wish it did.

Lot of different ways that could be interpreted

[SilentCarto]

I'm really don't like the "everyone protagonist has ever met unites for the climax" trope because it makes the world seem small...

I thought it worked just fine.

Though, in this case, it IS kind of a small world -- it's just one city, and Chapel is a pretty central location. I would be surprised if anyone took more than a day or two to get there.

[O. Hinds]

re lost data:
Yikes. Sorry, Somber. I'm afraid that I don't really understand what happened (you saved it, and then the crash... un-saved it, somehow?), but I'm just filing that under "mysterious computer malfunctions".

[Vexd]

Just two main ones, though, really.

A: Everyone gets their sunshine and rainbows
B:Everyone doesn't

And with that you've got an near infinite spectrum of variables and variations in-between based on body count and the actions of those in the next few chapters

[SilentCarto]

Also, PH isn't going to have the same ending as FoE.  I wish it did.

God, I don't. Even a straight-up tragic ending would have been more satisfying than Pip's lukewarm "sacrifice".

[Vexd]

Wait, "lukewarm" for what the sacrifice was, or

that detail:

[Icy Shake]

Ctrl+S is a writer's best friend

I did that several times.  It auto saved.  But then I got a BSOD and had to hard reboot twice.  The file was gone when it came back up. 

Dropbox. It's free, up to a limit that you'll substantially never hit on text or Word files, and automatic. Essentially all the important work I do on my personal computers, plus my notes for chapters, editing, whatever, and things I want to have shared but which don't need simultaneous editing capability are just preemptively put in directories that are automatically saved to my Dropbox account as soon as they've been saved to drive and I have an internet connection. This has saved me a lot of grief, many times, and is a lot cheaper and easier than redundant externals (I work on laptops only at the moment).

[O. Hinds]

...So is randomly deleting files just a thing that Windows does? If you have this procedure for dealing with it...

[Icy Shake]

Not really. My experience has been worse with Apple, which at least when I actually used Apple-related things (back in the '90s, I think, but maybe as late as the mid-aughts, except for an iPod Nano that I got for free) the Unix-derived principle that if you delete something it's gone forever was still in force, and I also lost portable media to Apple devices reformatting them to whatever they use and then making them unable to be used on anything, including other Apples. I started using Dropbox for group work, then continued because backing up files is just good practice, and it's a lot more convenient for moving files across devices than physical media or email. The grief it's saved me wasn't due to software, but hard drives or physical memory dying.

[Guest]

Had a file disappear on me once, Hinds/Somber. It was... not super great. Anyway, I used a program called "Recuva" to, well, recover it from my hard drive before the space it used got overwritten or whatever. Took a while to find it, but it did actually work!

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