Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

[SilentCarto]

It's okay -- she's with AJ, Pinkie, and Rarity now. They've been waiting.

Not entirely sure with Rarity, as bits and pieces of her soul are still in the figurines.

I'm sure.

I moved closer still and saw a second light, a soft orange point that sang the other sound.  And then a third was born, a cheery pink.  Another, majestic purple.

But she isn't quite a soul jar- she split. She and Octavia both have souls (or at least parts) that are within their actual bodies. What might happen to them? Do they pass? Fade? If the jars are destroyed, do the halves reunite? Is a split soul less somehow?

I don't think it's been addressed in PH what the major side effects of having half a soul are. And as much as it saddens me to say, I think we're a little too deep for that particular bit of world building to be addressed in narrative.

Snips is an excellent example. The free part of his soul moved on (only to be captured by the Tokomare), while the soul-jarred part remained behind. Same goes for Rarity... the remaining chunk of her soul moved on, and the bits in the statuettes remain behind. I would certainly hope that the bits would naturally join back together when released, though the only evidence we have on that front is Snips, who had Discord's intervention involved.

[SilentCarto]

So what actually happened to Duty and Sacrifice? Does Cogs have them?

BJ had them, last we saw, but she ran out of ammo popping turrets from the elevator in Shadowbolt Tower. They were last mentioned when asking Farsight if she had ammunition they could use. (She didn't.) So either Cogs has them now, or BJ gave them to someone she trusts during the tower evacuation for safekeeping.

[Rayndalf]

So what actually happened to Duty and Sacrifice? Does Cogs have them?

BJ had them, last we saw, but she ran out of ammo popping turrets from the elevator in Shadowbolt Tower. They were last mentioned when asking Farsight if she had ammunition they could use. (She didn't.) So either Cogs has them now, or BJ gave them to someone she trusts during the tower evacuation for safekeeping.

Okay, thanks! 
Is Vigilance is with Glory?

[SilentCarto]

I actually read Celestia's abdication in the totally opposite direction. Rather than cowardice, I see it as a demonstration of responsibility and self-clarity. That sounds really paradoxical, but this is how I see it: The last really big crisis on a globally cataclysmic scale was Nightmare Moon's rebellion. In it, Celestia's mishandling of the situation lead to further escalation of the conflict until NMM was banished to space. The problem wasn't really dealt with, only delayed, and Luna's instability would be even worse when she returned from ten centuries alone on the moon. In the wake of that event, Celestia realized that she wasn't capable of handling overwhelming crises, which is why she spent the next one thousand years creating a status quo so status-quo-y that she could be certain that she could manage it alone. If FiM is any indication of the level of entropy in Equestria, that period wouldn't have been inherently more stable, just that Celestia was able to contain the little problems so that they never grew to become big problems that she wouldn't be able to handle as sole monarch.

You're right, but for the wrong reason. You're correct that Celestia worked hard to build a status quo to prevent crises, but it wasn't because she couldn't handle the pressure. She had just lost access to Equestria's greatest trump card -- the Elements of Harmony. Until their new bearers emerged, threats like Discord or Sombra would be unstoppable, and even signs of weakness against a less powerful threat, like a war, could clue in the big bads that Equestria was defenseless against them. That was the reason for the creation of a standing military, as Twilight recounted in Testing, Testing, 1, 2, 3. I tend to suspect that, aside from Nightmare Moon and Discord, the "interesting times" Twilight and her friends live in are a result of Celestia finally relaxing her guard now that they have their superweapon once again.

Well. Had.

[SilentCarto]

Okay, thanks! 
Is Vigilance is with Glory?

Vigilance ran dry during the same fight. I'd assume it's with Duty and Sacrifice.

[Borsuq]

Okay, thanks! 
Is Vigilance is with Glory?

BJ managed to get a bunch of ammo last chapter, right? Or the chapter before? None of her weapons are dry now, right?

Yep... except they are kinda with her old body I think.

[SilentCarto]

And as for Luna, good point.  She hasn't even gotten a throne yet.

I like to think Celestia had an inkling of Twilight's destiny and didn't want to have to redesign the throne room twice in three years.  

BJ managed to get a bunch of ammo last chapter, right? Or the chapter before? None of her weapons are dry now, right?

She found a lot of ammo on the train, but as you say, that's with her old body now. None of her pistols were mentioned during that fight, anyway, and she threatened Cogs with a rocket launcher. So it's kind of a question mark whether she had stowed the guns in her saddlebags or passed them off to someone else before she went after Lighthooves.

[Rayndalf]

BJ managed to get a bunch of ammo last chapter, right? Or the chapter before? None of her weapons are dry now, right?

She found a lot of ammo on the train, but as you say, that's with her old body now. None of her pistols were mentioned during that fight, anyway, and she threatened Cogs with a rocket launcher. So it's kind of a question mark whether she had stowed the guns in her saddlebags or passed them off to someone else before she went after Lighthooves.

I could've sworn Glory was given Vigilance after her AER-14/Gatling Laser broke, and until she got Pew-Pew (gift at Society) it was her main weapon. I don't remember it being returned or mentioned again so I assumed she was still in possession of it.

[Scienza]

Snips is an excellent example. The free part of his soul moved on (only to be captured by the Tokomare), while the soul-jarred part remained behind. Same goes for Rarity... the remaining chunk of her soul moved on, and the bits in the statuettes remain behind. I would certainly hope that the bits would naturally join back together when released, though the only evidence we have on that front is Snips, who had Discord's intervention involved.

Huh. I wonder whether the fact that the bits of Rarity's soul in the statuettes are overwritten by imprints of her friends would interfere in a hypothetical rejoining of her soul bits.

And on that note, what are the statuettes in terms of personhood? Souls possess minds (-ish) and are the essence of the person, so are the statuettes Rarity, or are they the Mane 6? Blackjack and Littlepip seem to personify and see them as "Mini-stry Mares" and their nature as imprints would make it seem likely that they are little impressions/copies of Purplesmart, Treekicker, Speedycloud, and the rest. This is really interesting in the context of the question of Rampage's personhood, which also stems from the recombination of souls, fragments, and imprints.

[SilentCarto]

I could've sworn Glory was given Vigilance after her AER-14/Gatling Laser broke, and until she got Pew-Pew (gift at Society) it was her main weapon. I don't remember it being returned or mentioned again so I assumed she was still in possession of it.

Ah, I see. Well, that did happen, but she got Vigilance back in the very next chapter.

Chapter 56:
There was a knock on the door.  “Yes?” I called, floating out Vigilance and loading AP rounds.

Glory continued to make do until she got Pew-Pew. Later on in the same chapter:
“Red bars,” I said as I drew Vigilance, staring at the door.  “Five, right on the other side.”
“I really miss my gun,” Glory muttered.  “Weren’t there supposed to be bodyguards outside?”  I floated my markspony carbine over to her.  She looked at it skeptically, then bit down on the trigger bit guard and secured the gun in her hooves as she took cover behind the bed.  P-21 looked at Persuasion, then joined her.  I made three.  The bedroom only had one entrance, for security.

[SilentCarto]

Huh. I wonder whether the fact that the bits of Rarity's soul in the statuettes are overwritten by imprints of her friends would interfere in a hypothetical rejoining of her soul bits.

Nah, that's just the spell that's "hung" on the soul fragment in each statuette. When it's broken and the soul departs, the enchantment would dissipate.
  

And on that note, what are the statuettes in terms of personhood? Souls possess minds (-ish) and are the essence of the person, so are the statuettes Rarity, or are they the Mane 6? Blackjack and Littlepip seem to personify and see them as "Mini-stry Mares" and their nature as imprints would make it seem likely that they are little impressions/copies of Purplesmart, Treekicker, Speedycloud, and the rest. This is really interesting in the context of the question of Rampage's personhood, which also stems from the recombination of souls, fragments, and imprints.

Okay, I'm going to ramble for a bit.

I've always been of the opinion that Rampage and Lacunae are people, no matter their origins. I firmly believe that personality makes the person. That said, in this world, you can scientifically measure and manipulate souls, which kind of changes the game. Just last chapter, we had a very thorough demonstration of soul without mind and mind without soul. It's interesting to compare a mindless Blackjack with a naked soul, such as the soul-wisps, Echo, the hostile soul jars in Hightower, or BJ's assorted deaths. It seems that a naked soul is capable of more thought than an ensouled body. Perhaps that's because it retains an imprint of the mind it had in life, but being placed in a body overwrites that with the new, empty brain, like a baby.

On the other hoof, a mind without a soul has no motivation, which makes Cognitum in interesting test subject. It seems that being placed in a computer, specifically, gives a mind a sort of external motivation that isn't there if you put the mind into a fresh brain. That might explain why a thinking computer would tend to grow cold and uncaring if the hardware weren't also imbued with a soul. So why didn't Cogs fall comatose when BJ's soul was removed from her new biological body? ...I'unno.

So, getting back to the statuettes. I think, barring other magic, the Rarity-bits would be just as much Rarity as Echo is Echo. With the enchantments she placed on them, each soul shard is "poured into" an Applejack-shaped mold (or whoever), which makes them a faithful image of the original pony. Moreover, the enchantments seem to let the pony "live in your head" rather than influencing you the way Nurse Candy did with Officer Softheart. It may be related to the leakage effect, but if so, the leakage is carefully metered and contained so that it forms a discrete sort of daemon or subroutine in your brain.

Finally, back to the subject of Rampage. The one thing that makes me doubt myself with regards to Rampage is how she describes her experience as "like a schoolteacher and my head is a kindergarten". I guess it all depends on whether Rampage is a controlling ego distinct from the component personalities, or just an average of all her components.

[Rayndalf]

I could've sworn Glory was given Vigilance after her AER-14/Gatling Laser broke, and until she got Pew-Pew (gift at Society) it was her main weapon. I don't remember it being returned or mentioned again so I assumed she was still in possession of it.

Ah, I see. Well, that did happen, but she got Vigilance back in the very next chapter.

Chapter 56:
There was a knock on the door.  “Yes?” I called, floating out Vigilance and loading AP rounds.

Glory continued to make do until she got Pew-Pew. Later on in the same chapter:
“Red bars,” I said as I drew Vigilance, staring at the door.  “Five, right on the other side.”
“I really miss my gun,” Glory muttered.  “Weren’t there supposed to be bodyguards outside?”  I floated my markspony carbine over to her.  She looked at it skeptically, then bit down on the trigger bit guard and secured the gun in her hooves as she took cover behind the bed.  P-21 looked at Persuasion, then joined her.  I made three.  The bedroom only had one entrance, for security.

I guess I missed that. Its absence is odd though because in chapter 65 she finds a new 12.7 mm pistol, and later bullets, but doesn't use Vigilance which would make good use of rounds. I start to think all her weapons gained sentience, and went on vacation like the starmetal sword, and are having adventures off camera... 

[Dekshuduph]

On the other hoof, a mind without a soul has no motivation, which makes Cognitum in interesting test subject. It seems that being placed in a computer, specifically, gives a mind a sort of external motivation that isn't there if you put the mind into a fresh brain. That might explain why a thinking computer would tend to grow cold and uncaring if the hardware weren't also imbued with a soul. So why didn't Cogs fall comatose when BJ's soul was removed from her new biological body? ...I'unno.

Well, you don't seem to be considering all instances of ponies that don't have souls for comparison. We've seen blanks and ghouls, and neither were 'comatose' or just fully passive (as Blackjack's new body was).

Starting with ghouls as an example, they're simply irradiated ponies that have little connection to their soul, so they lose it if they aren't careful and turn feral. Feral ghouls have been known to be ravage and want to eat ponies, even though that isn't necessary for ghouls as they are charged by radiation. They have limited use of their own intellect, using it only to fulfill basic survival instincts that we can assume are hard-coded into their brains. Blanks are very similar, only since they are completely mindless, they don't even know how to so much as walk without being guided around. They don't know how to do otherwise, so they'll just fall over dead as soon as they starve. Boo was able to possibly observe other people and learn, which is the likeliest reason she survived.

Blackjack's new body was probably the same as a feral ghoul or a blank, just under different circumstances. She was trapped and possibly pacified, and she probably wasn't hungry. She, as a soulless body, simply had nothing to do, so she didn't do anything. Blackjack's old body soon goes to the same state, but again, it's under a new circumstance: Cognitum is in full control of Blackjack's cybernetics. While it wasn't described what exactly she did to take control of the body, we can assume that she hooked up her brain to her cybernetics. Either she put herself into Blackjack's brain and modified it to work like a computer, or she put herself somewhere else (the PipBuck) and began controlling the organic body parts remotely. She's smart, so she wouldn't let Blackjack's soul interfere and we can probably assume she thought ahead and did one of these things.

...Take my words with a grain of salt, I'm probably over-thinking things, hopefully just because you didn't really think about it. :P

[Dutcher]

Just wondering about the named weapons.
If Vigilance is currently in Glory's possession, and the Star Metal Sword and Folly are MIA, what happened to Duty and Sacrifice?

Sword isn't MIA, we just don't know where Slave Willing is. Yet.

Everything is canon until proven otherwise, right?

*high pitched girlish squeal*

Somber plz  

[Meleagridis]

 She's smart, so she wouldn't let Blackjack's soul interfere and we can probably assume she thought ahead and did one of these things.

She did, though. She had a few agonizing moments with BJ's soul before Snips swapped it out. I think it's the same kind of mind swap that the faux crusader does.

Huh, what a kind hallucinatory personality to put on a sword that he discovered in a rain of corpses.

Well, it's not like a rain of his own species. A bit more like a bunch of animal corpses (All Hail the Glow Cloud)

Somber plz  

Start a petition. Bunch of signatures and a donation.

[Rayndalf]

"But victory is branded on your flanks for all to see.  A winning pair, impossible to beat in the game of Blackjack.”

As others have pointed out, Blackjacks real name is Go Fish, and those two cards have no meaning in a game of go fish

"Nothing was coming to me.  I should have been coming up with… something… or even just doing things on impulse.  Instead, I felt a cold knot of terror where my victory had been earlier."

This is physiological right? Blackjack couldn't have forgotten her own name. I'm sure she knows that go fish is a game of perseverance and piles of four?  

It'd be funny if Blackjack shouts something along the lines of "Go Fish M*therf$^ker!" When she shows up to ruin Cog's plan.

Something like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CfNarCjSHM

[Guest]

"But victory is branded on your flanks for all to see.  A winning pair, impossible to beat in the game of Blackjack.”

As others have pointed out, Blackjacks real name is Go Fish, and those two cards have no meaning in a game of go fish

The number of cards does. The goal of go fish is to empty your hand, two cards left means you're almost there. Near victory.

[Rayndalf]

"But victory is branded on your flanks for all to see.  A winning pair, impossible to beat in the game of Blackjack.”

As others have pointed out, Blackjacks real name is Go Fish, and those two cards have no meaning in a game of go fish

The number of cards does. The goal of go fish is to empty your hand, two cards left means you're almost there. Near victory.

Depends on the version of go fish being played, I was under the impression that you were trying to get the greatest number of pairs.

[Guest]

"But victory is branded on your flanks for all to see.  A winning pair, impossible to beat in the game of Blackjack.”

As others have pointed out, Blackjacks real name is Go Fish, and those two cards have no meaning in a game of go fish

The number of cards does. The goal of go fish is to empty your hand, two cards left means you're almost there. Near victory.

Depends on the version of go fish being played, I was under the impression that you were trying to get the greatest number of pairs.

I wouldn't think so. Then Go fish wouldn't be a punishment for guessing wrong, more cards to play with= larger number of pairs. It'd be in your best interest to guess wrong. In fact it would really draw out the game with both players guessing wrong until there's no cards left in the deck, all the pairs you drew are already accounted for and it's just you and the other person slowly listing off what they have in their hand turn by turn. It goes from a card game to accounting.

Are you sure you're not thinking of another game with a similar mechanic? Pairs are a thing in Go fish but they reward you by removing a card from your hand not by giving a point.

[Scienza]

"But victory is branded on your flanks for all to see.  A winning pair, impossible to beat in the game of Blackjack.”

As others have pointed out, Blackjacks real name is Go Fish, and those two cards have no meaning in a game of go fish

But Blackjack did earn her cutie mark while playing blackjack, so it makes sense that it would be specific to the game...

As for the name thing, I'm going to dispute that Go Fish is her "real" name. It's her given name, but that doesn't necessarily make it any more real. "Blackjack" is more than just a pseudonym that Go Fish hides behind, it's the mare's identity, how she perceives herself and constructs her perceptions. "Blackjack" is a truer name than "Go Fish", which is why it completely replaced the other in her internal perceptions. Compare it to Morning/Fallen Glory, where she was still just Morning trying to be Fallen.

[Guest]

"But victory is branded on your flanks for all to see.  A winning pair, impossible to beat in the game of Blackjack.”

As others have pointed out, Blackjacks real name is Go Fish, and those two cards have no meaning in a game of go fish

But Blackjack did earn her cutie mark while playing blackjack, so it makes sense that it would be specific to the game...

As for the name thing, I'm going to dispute that Go Fish is her "real" name. It's her given name, but that doesn't necessarily make it any more real. "Blackjack" is more than just a pseudonym that Go Fish hides behind, it's the mare's identity, how she perceives herself and constructs her perceptions. "Blackjack" is a truer name than "Go Fish", which is why it completely replaced the other in her internal perceptions. Compare it to Morning/Fallen Glory, where she was still just Morning trying to be Fallen.

Not trying to dispute, but while it may not be true I thought the Go Fish idea was neat. If only because if that is the case BJ got rid of her hand. In the context of that game near victory has become victory.

Also Go Fish makes more sense with the cutie mark. She got that mark when she witnessed a filly being destroyed by malfuctioning door, if she believes she could have done something to save her (Can't remember when she mentioned it if she expressed that or not) that near victory of being able to save the filly seems like the much more significant event than the card game. Especially if they had played the game before then, given that they live in a stable I imagine the number of things they could do was pretty limited.

When did she adopt the name? Maybe that's why BJ did adopt it, guilt over her inaction.

Probably wrong, but it's kind of a neat thought.

[MSCA]

"But victory is branded on your flanks for all to see.  A winning pair, impossible to beat in the game of Blackjack.”

As others have pointed out, Blackjacks real name is Go Fish, and those two cards have no meaning in a game of go fish

But Blackjack did earn her cutie mark while playing blackjack, so it makes sense that it would be specific to the game...

As for the name thing, I'm going to dispute that Go Fish is her "real" name. It's her given name, but that doesn't necessarily make it any more real. "Blackjack" is more than just a pseudonym that Go Fish hides behind, it's the mare's identity, how she perceives herself and constructs her perceptions. "Blackjack" is a truer name than "Go Fish", which is why it completely replaced the other in her internal perceptions. Compare it to Morning/Fallen Glory, where she was still just Morning trying to be Fallen.

Not trying to dispute, but while it may not be true I thought the Go Fish idea was neat. If only because if that is the case BJ got rid of her hand. In the context of that game near victory has become victory.

[snip]

Oh my god, that is super clever and awesome.  I hope you are right.

[Icy Shake]

hell, I love your sketches and have made a habit of saving them off to a readily accessible file.

Any chance that’s a publicly viewable gdocs file or something?

It is now. Roughly, it's in blog format, with page breaks between (what I believe were) separate instances of him publishing them, in reverse chronological order.

I'll post here the stuff you're missing, at least as much as has been posted to my deviantart.
[stuff]
I never really realized I'd written so much stupid stuff. I wonder how long they'd be if it was all converted it all into PH-style writing.

Thanks, swicked. Added.

Perhaps more surprising was Amadi. In particular, his interpretation of the stars' message was plausible, and I'd normally think little of it. But he's got a thing about prophesy and should have known to be more skeptical, more thorough. And yet I can see why it happens, with him interpreting the message to mean what he wanted to hear after waiting so long.

Well, that sort of implies that the evil stars were actively trying to to screw him over with a cryptic answer. I would think, instead, that they were saying, "Look, she's mindless, and you just blew up her brain. There's this tiny little chance that she could be recovered if all these horrible people manage to work together, and each of them are willing to sacrifice their lives for this, and then she manages to beat up a guy in power armor with her bare hooves. Which, of course, is the kind of unlikely chain of events that Discord is all about.

I sort of have this mental image of Dawn and Snips behind the computer while Cogs tries to fire Horizons, looking at each and other going, "Wow, we really fucked up, huh?"

I wasn't trying to imply that, more that there could be a degree of vagueness due to those on the other end not being ponies, and thinking very differently. Possibly there could be flaws in the channel itself that leave things fuzzy. Such is the way of prophesy, and this was most certainly a prophetic interaction, if in the speaking with gods sense rather than predicting the future sens. I was just saying that he's used to this kind of thing, but may have fallen prey to a cognitive bias in favor of hearing what he wanted to hear at a crucial time, and taking it too far.

Somber plz  

Start a petition. Bunch of signatures and a donation.

Somber plz. pls dont.
Or: keep it minimal, like a radroad scurrying away if and when Blackjack finds the sword again. Subtle, like the Pink Eyes reference in chapter thirty four.

"But victory is branded on your flanks for all to see.  A winning pair, impossible to beat in the game of Blackjack.”

As others have pointed out, Blackjacks real name is Go Fish, and those two cards have no meaning in a game of go fish

But Blackjack did earn her cutie mark while playing blackjack, so it makes sense that it would be specific to the game...

As for the name thing, I'm going to dispute that Go Fish is her "real" name. It's her given name, but that doesn't necessarily make it any more real. "Blackjack" is more than just a pseudonym that Go Fish hides behind, it's the mare's identity, how she perceives herself and constructs her perceptions. "Blackjack" is a truer name than "Go Fish", which is why it completely replaced the other in her internal perceptions. Compare it to Morning/Fallen Glory, where she was still just Morning trying to be Fallen.

I largely agree here. I'd add, though, that in addition to her name-by-choice, there's the name she earned, and the name of the legend—Security—that could also be seen as more real than her given name, if not in my opinion as real as "Blackjack."

"But victory is branded on your flanks for all to see.  A winning pair, impossible to beat in the game of Blackjack.”

As others have pointed out, Blackjacks real name is Go Fish, and those two cards have no meaning in a game of go fish

But Blackjack did earn her cutie mark while playing blackjack, so it makes sense that it would be specific to the game...

As for the name thing, I'm going to dispute that Go Fish is her "real" name. It's her given name, but that doesn't necessarily make it any more real. "Blackjack" is more than just a pseudonym that Go Fish hides behind, it's the mare's identity, how she perceives herself and constructs her perceptions. "Blackjack" is a truer name than "Go Fish", which is why it completely replaced the other in her internal perceptions. Compare it to Morning/Fallen Glory, where she was still just Morning trying to be Fallen.

Not trying to dispute, but while it may not be true I thought the Go Fish idea was neat. If only because if that is the case BJ got rid of her hand. In the context of that game near victory has become victory.

Also Go Fish makes more sense with the cutie mark. She got that mark when she witnessed a filly being destroyed by malfuctioning door, if she believes she could have done something to save her (Can't remember when she mentioned it if she expressed that or not) that near victory of being able to save the filly seems like the much more significant event than the card game. Especially if they had played the game before then, given that they live in a stable I imagine the number of things they could do was pretty limited.

When did she adopt the name? Maybe that's why BJ did adopt it, guilt over her inaction.

Probably wrong, but it's kind of a neat thought.

I'd argue against the "emptying hand" point, on the basis that that seems, to me, to require not merely losing her old cutie mark, but gaining a new one which is an empty hand (and thus potentially blank, but that strikes me as a silly cutie mark).

That said, I'm very hesitant to take Cognitum's interpretation of Blackjack's cutie mark at face value. While I do think it's what she believes, she doesn't know all the details, like the possibility that Blackjack took her name after her mark, much less the details of how she got it. Why, I'd say that at that point Luna's disembodied soul probably knew better than Cognitum did what its meaning was, on the basis of her short dream visit.

As for the "Hatches" story, there really isn't much detail—so we aren't too far off from Cognitum's situation in that respect. But we do know everyone was too shell-shocked to even get up to do anything.

Once upon a time, when I was just a filly, my flank was blank, and then one day it wasn’t anymore.  Rivets had inherited a deck of cards from her mother, and we were playing blackjack, the only card game my feeble math skills could handle.  Rivets, Daisy, Marmalade, Hatches, and I were sitting around a table in a storeroom, drinking synthetic apple juice and betting impossible sums with nuts, bolts, screws, and the occasional actual old bit.  We were having a great time.

Then Hatches had to go pee.  The door of the storeroom was like most: a pair of metal plates slid up and down by an electric motor connected to a button.  She’d pressed that and started through.  There had been a short, and the door had closed on her, the large, heavy slab falling from above and the smaller sheet being pushed up from below, with her body in the middle.  A horrible snapping sound, then the mechanism had caught and the door opened again.  Over in a second.  We’d just watched, stunned, as she kept walking on shaking limbs.  She’d reached the stairs before she crumpled and died two minutes later.  We still just watched, too shocked to even move.

Did I mention that we only started calling her Hatches after she was crushed?

And I don't think it's entirely clear when she started calling herself "Blackjack." All there really is to go on is a memory when she's in class and insisting on being called "Blackjack," but there's no mention of either a presence or absence of a cutie mark or whether this was pre- or post-Hatches.

Chapter Forty Five Running Thoughts:

Chapter Forty Five Overall Thoughts:

Chapter Forty Five Editing:

Other Chapter Editing:

[SilentCarto]

Also Go Fish makes more sense with the cutie mark. She got that mark when she witnessed a filly being destroyed by malfuctioning door, if she believes she could have done something to save her (Can't remember when she mentioned it if she expressed that or not) that near victory of being able to save the filly seems like the much more significant event than the card game. Especially if they had played the game before then, given that they live in a stable I imagine the number of things they could do was pretty limited.

When did she adopt the name? Maybe that's why BJ did adopt it, guilt over her inaction.

Interesting idea!

It's not clear when BJ adopted her new name, but if her dream of meeting P-21 (er... "Blue Colt") is to be believed, she changed her name very shortly after gaining her cutie mark. She's also very vague about her CM story -- "At first I didn't have a cutie mark, and then one day, I did." She only goes into detail about the circumstances of Hatches' death, not the life-defining moment when she figured out her own destiny.

They also stopped referring to Hatches by her real name after that. That says to me that the event was so traumatic that the fillies didn't want to think of their friend being dead; instead, they could talk about the death of this filly named Hatches that they had no emotional connection to. In other words, I think BJ's repressing the hell out of the whole event. I have this suspicion that Hatches was really important to Go Fish, which is why she didn't want to be Go Fish anymore. If they were as inseperable as I suspect, losing her would be like the CMC losing Scootaloo; you can still talk about Apple Bloom and Sweetie Belle, but there's this missing piece that's conspicuous in its absence.

[SilentCarto]

Somber plz. pls dont.
Or: keep it minimal, like a radroad scurrying away if and when Blackjack finds the sword again. Subtle, like the Pink Eyes reference in chapter thirty four.

There was a Pink Eyes reference in chapter 34?


Hm. Say, Hinds? It just occurred to me that Whisper and Stygius didn't mention BJ's new glowy eye-lights. Assuming that dying and getting jammed back into her body twice would give her those.
(Or maybe the first one turned them on, second turned them off?   )

[O. Hinds]

@Icy Shake:
Ah, thank you very much as always.

second hyphen for dash. symmecrical spacing?

No on the symmetrical spacing there, sorry.

Is the Goddess cruise control for humor? I think she might be.

Well, at this point in the story… :)

Hm. Say, Hinds? It just occurred to me that Whisper and Stygius didn't mention BJ's new glowy eye-lights. Assuming that dying and getting jammed back into her body twice would give her those.

She's died twice, had her soul and mind shuffled around various bodies, been touch by the stars and by the Eater… At the point, Blackjack may be a unique case. I don't think that it's a problem. It would also have to have been mentioned when she was in the blank body the first time. Sorry. I may not be communicating especially well, as I'm pretty tired and behind schedule from a long and stupid argument related to the RPG group I'm in.

[SilentCarto]

...doesn't that only happen to those who cast soul magic?

According to Snips, it means you've seen The Other Side.

She's died twice, had her soul and mind shuffled around various bodies, been touch by the stars and by the Eater…  At the point, Blackjack may be a unique case.  I don't think that it's a problem.  It would also have to have been mentioned when she was in the blank body the first time.

Well, BJ was never really in a position to observe her own body. At any point that BJ's soul was in the blank, she would have been in that non-person state, on the wrong side of her eyes, or watching a relatively distant camera shot from above. And she hasn't exactly been exposed to a mirror since she got her mind and soul back together. Steel Rain and the Broken Monster Squad (Hey, I used to play bass for Steel Rain and the Broken Monster Squad!) had more pressing concerns than the state of BJ's eyeballs once her body was retrieved, so I don't think anyone else would be in a position to mention her eyes until she got to the relative calm of the batpony castle.

Sorry. I may not be communicating especially well, as I'm pretty tired and behind schedule from a long and stupid argument related to the RPG group I'm in.

No problem, buddy. *pat pat*

[FeatherDust]

PH provides a much more direct and sympathetic view of stars. Most of them are quite benign, and indeed seek to protect the life forms on their respective worlds. Granted, they may be somewhat apathetic about saving a world that's as close to the brink as Equestria is, but I don't blame them for looking out for the bigger picture. The point is, PH makes it seem a lot more like a friendly cosmos with the majority of stars working together to build something beautiful, spoiled only by a few bad eggs.

Keeping in mind that said spoilage involves extinction-level events.

And not just spoilage. The "good" stars acting in defense of planet full of life wiped out a good part of a continent to do so. They're still eldritch abominations with a point of view utterly alien to mortals. They value souls, and life in general, but not lives per-se.

I had always operated under the assumption that you had stars, which were beings of light and life that sung to hold back the Things that Live in the Dark.

...The Things are, themselves, other stars that similarly refused to die peacefully when their time came. The Eater is just the youngest such being, struck down before it could further disrupt the harmony of the cosmos.

Yeah, I kind of thought originally that the "things" in the dark were basically black holes. The ultimate consumers.

[Moodyman90]

That is part of the beauty of cosmic horror stories, even the "friendly" beings are liable to cause catastrophes death and destruction just cause.

Course PH has them a lot nicer than most.

[FeatherDust]

She only goes into detail about the circumstances of Hatches' death, not the life-defining moment when she figured out her own destiny.

They also stopped referring to Hatches by her real name after that. That says to me that the event was so traumatic that the fillies didn't want to think of their friend being dead; instead, they could talk about the death of this filly named Hatches that they had no emotional connection to. In other words, I think BJ's repressing the hell out of the whole event. I have this suspicion that Hatches was really important to Go Fish, which is why she didn't want to be Go Fish anymore. If they were as inseperable as I suspect, losing her would be like the CMC losing Scootaloo; you can still talk about Apple Bloom and Sweetie Belle, but there's this missing piece that's conspicuous in its absence.

...wow. Okay. That's very possible.

Actually, now I'm wondering if Go Fish and The Filly Subsequently Known As Hatches had a budding relationship... Is that what was so crushing that Go Fish would change her name to escape from it?

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