Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

[RoboRed]

And you'll have to scour the entirety of the thread for the rest...  

*looks through archives* Good grief, it's almost been exactly two years since this thread was first started...

[Icy Shake]

hell, I love your sketches and have made a habit of saving them off to a readily accessible file.

Any chance that’s a publicly viewable gdocs file or something?

Well, if he has them all, he's the only one that does. Those that didn't get put on deviantart were never saved anywhere.

Yeah, pretty sure I don't. It looks like I probably started saving them sometime in the 40s. Anything from EQD wouldn't be included.

[SilentCarto]

But... wasn't it mentioned in the original Fallout: Equestria that starmetal is poisonous for ponies?

'Fraid not. Dr. Glue expressed dismay in his usual... colorful idiom at the idea of using it for experimentation, cybernetics, or armor without fully understanding its properties. However, the twisted corpses in Glue's lab were due to simple Taint exposure.

That pompous prick Red Eye got ahold of some pre-war fancy-mane’s recipe for the crap that Taint is made out of, the shit that the Goddess uses to fucking create alicorns. So far, four out of five test subjects have responded with the most grotesque, body-warping deaths. But that last one-in-five? Very promising indeed!

Starmetal's poisonous qualities, as far as I know, came out of Heroes.

(Sorry if someone already replied this... I'm still like a week behind.)

[Fillivilla]

I've seen a lot of new users lately so i decided to subscribe here too.
Hello everyone:D

(sorry for my english)

[O. Hinds]

I'll try to keep this short, but I'll say my interpretation of the abdication is closer to swicked's than Scienza's. If nothing else, I'd expect something motivated by a rational judgement that she was less capable of governing than Luna would involve a more structured transfer of power than "effective immediately, she's in charge." On the point that Goldenblood only needed to make some soft pushes against her ego to keep her from interfering, I'd go one further: that was probably all he could do—or at least all he felt safe doing—because if he pushed back hard enough for her to try to force her way to Twilight, her seeing his treatment of her beloved mentor would likely cause a real morale problem at a level the Ministry apparatus may not have been able to handle.

Interestingly, the FoE governance model of Celestia having complete control and Luna being a space filler whom Celestia may occasionally listen to has been borne out pretty well by seasons two through four so far (and the comics). Luna has only ever appeared in a personal capacity, sometimes didn't even show up to things you'd expect her to even if only as a figurehead (e.g., the royal wedding), and in the only instance she tried to affect a government decision on screen—the season three premiere—Celestia's response wasn't so far from "who said you get an opinion?" So as far as the blame game goes, I'd say that likewise weighs against her: part of the problem was that, contrary to what she said was how they were meant to be upon Luna's exorcism by the Elements, they did not rule together, which deprived them of the ability to share the infrastructure and responsibility of governance, and incidentally facilitated the Nightmare Moon propaganda of the late war period.

Editing:

Ah, thank you very much as always.

And as for Luna, good point. She hasn't even gotten a throne yet.

I um really like this for some reason

Yes, we all thought that that was a good one.

The Last Stand of the Broken Monsters

Nice name.

...I completely forgot that swicked was going to help write Psycho's dialogue now. All we need is Rampage.

:D

While I don’t like how he suddenly went from the only bad guy who was a threat because of only his wits to a petulant child with the foresight of a mosquito, he was clever where it counted.

The way I see Steel Rain is being very clever in most ways and until now not being in a position where his blind spots were especially problematic. I mean, look at how well most of what he does keeps to the Evil Overlord List. It's just that he couldn't bear, could not bear the idea of surrendering to Blackjack and walking out a prisoner.

hell, I love your sketches and have made a habit of saving them off to a readily accessible file.

Any chance that’s a publicly viewable gdocs file or something?

It is now. Roughly, it's in blog format, with page breaks between (what I believe were) separate instances of him publishing them, in reverse chronological order.

Ooh, nice.
[rereads]
Hahahahahaha!

I've seen a lot of new users lately so i decided to subscribe here too.
Hello everyone:D

(sorry for my english)

Welcome!

[SilentCarto]

Okay, so he's been around well over a thousand years. Wonder just what he meant by "elevated the Princesses," though. Just the same as legitimizing their roles?

I think that means he caused them to seek out the Elements, which made them not just keepers of the sun and moon, but protectors of Equestria and the world. That event also happens to have cemented their place as the rulers of Equestria, but that's a different matter.

So I was rereading FoE and I came across something rather odd. After Littlepip asks about the alien pistol that Homage owns, Homage tells her about zebras view of the sky and what they believe. As she explains, she talks about four specific stars that have malicious intent and I couldn't help but wonder, is the Eater supposed to be one of those stars?

I don't think so. The Four Stars were implied to be the ones that aided in Nightmare Moon's escape. But, on the other hand, that's all Zebra legend; from our Equestriacentric perspective, Celestia was apparently able to calculate Nightmare Moon's release down to the day, and indeed, a thousand years of imprisonment to the day sounds a lot like a very specific sentence. It's not like some star slipped Nightmare Moon a file hidden in a cake; she "escaped" on a pre-appointed day, on which the destined Bearer of Magic (with the image of the Element of Magic right there on her flank) was as close to the Elements of Harmony as was reasonable, with all the resources she needed right there in her library. If anything, the stars were Nightmare Moon's wardens, strolling up with the key to say, "Time's up. You're a free mare."

Be careful about taking zebra legend as stone-cold fact. From Midnight Shower's journal:
In return, the old zebra mare told me plenty, albeit in hushed tones and only after pulling me into a back room and closing up her store.
She spoke of how the zebras believe that the stars themselves are the visible avatars of unholy entities so unfathomable that our minds would crack should we perceive more than a notion of them. Beings of such primordial and loathsome will that all the evils of our world are no match for their vileness and cruelty.

Zebras don't differentiate between friendly stars, hostile stars, and the things that live in the vast dark between, be they zombie stars or eldrich entities we can't even begin to fathom. They take the simplistic view that space = bad. The meteor strike that wiped out ancient Hoofington clearly had a strong effect on their culture. They're not wrong, per se, but they lack the perspective to understand what was done by whom and why. They're insects trying to comprehend the actions of gods, with only their limited perception of events to put it all in context.

Homage, on the other hoof, takes a more balanced view:
“I believe that most all religion is born of a mixture of truth and fantasy, hope and fear. How much truth is in any one mythology is hard to say. But I believe that the amount of truth in the zebra’s legends is a good bit more than zero. I don’t believe that your ancient ancestors understood the stars nearly as much as they believed they did… But I have seen enough to be certain that the void beyond the moon holds wonders and terrors far beyond our imaginations. And that at least some of what is out there is malicious beyond our conception of evil, and is looking this way with hostile intentions.”

[SilentCarto]

Did that ever come to anything? I mean, was starmetal ever used again in the story or do anything more significant than directly lead to Hired getting a free mech arm? Or was it just a stand-in for any other kind of poisonous plotonium?

I am very much not the one to ask about such things. I got up to the part where Silver Hired Gun Storm gets her cyberleg, and I've sort of let the story lay there for... a year and a half now.

It didn't hook me.

[Vergil]

I skimmed that a while back out of curiosity actually. If I recall correctly, the whole point of that was finally revealed in one of the newer chapters.

It didn't hook me either.

[Silver136]

The starmetal bullets used to poisen Hired were found in an armory, and defending them from raiders killed her mother. It helps advance the plot, and it did result in Hired's new leg.

Spoiler:

[Scienza]

Okay, so he's been around well over a thousand years. Wonder just what he meant by "elevated the Princesses," though. Just the same as legitimizing their roles?

I think that means he caused them to seek out the Elements, which made them not just keepers of the sun and moon, but protectors of Equestria and the world. That event also happens to have cemented their place as the rulers of Equestria, but that's a different matter.

So I was rereading FoE and I came across something rather odd. After Littlepip asks about the alien pistol that Homage owns, Homage tells her about zebras view of the sky and what they believe. As she explains, she talks about four specific stars that have malicious intent and I couldn't help but wonder, is the Eater supposed to be one of those stars?

I don't think so. The Four Stars were implied to be the ones that aided in Nightmare Moon's escape. But, on the other hand, that's all Zebra legend; from our Equestriacentric perspective, Celestia was apparently able to calculate Nightmare Moon's release down to the day, and indeed, a thousand years of imprisonment to the day sounds a lot like a very specific sentence. It's not like some star slipped Nightmare Moon a file hidden in a cake; she "escaped" on a pre-appointed day, on which the destined Bearer of Magic (with the image of the Element of Magic right there on her flank) was as close to the Elements of Harmony as was reasonable, with all the resources she needed right there in her library. If anything, the stars were Nightmare Moon's wardens, strolling up with the key to say, "Time's up. You're a free mare."

Be careful about taking zebra legend as stone-cold fact. From Midnight Shower's journal:
In return, the old zebra mare told me plenty, albeit in hushed tones and only after pulling me into a back room and closing up her store.
She spoke of how the zebras believe that the stars themselves are the visible avatars of unholy entities so unfathomable that our minds would crack should we perceive more than a notion of them. Beings of such primordial and loathsome will that all the evils of our world are no match for their vileness and cruelty.

Zebras don't differentiate between friendly stars, hostile stars, and the things that live in the vast dark between, be they zombie stars or eldrich entities we can't even begin to fathom. They take the simplistic view that space = bad. The meteor strike that wiped out ancient Hoofington clearly had a strong effect on their culture. They're not wrong, per se, but they lack the perspective to understand what was done by whom and why. They're insects trying to comprehend the actions of gods, with only their limited perception of events to put it all in context.

Homage, on the other hoof, takes a more balanced view:
“I believe that most all religion is born of a mixture of truth and fantasy, hope and fear. How much truth is in any one mythology is hard to say. But I believe that the amount of truth in the zebra’s legends is a good bit more than zero. I don’t believe that your ancient ancestors understood the stars nearly as much as they believed they did… But I have seen enough to be certain that the void beyond the moon holds wonders and terrors far beyond our imaginations. And that at least some of what is out there is malicious beyond our conception of evil, and is looking this way with hostile intentions.”

So, Lovecraft-esque cosmicism is yet another thread of philosophy that we're seeing in PH.

[Silver136]

The starmetal bullets used to poisen Hired were found in an armory, and defending them from raiders killed her mother. It helps advance the plot, and it did result in Hired's new leg.

Spoiler:

The mech arm did, or the starmetal did?

Well there were experiments done prewar with that goal. The injury gave a group of scientists the option to test it on her. As to what it does, no one knows yet. Chapter isn't out that tells us. But the starmetal plays a key role in influencing Hired's personality directly from the injury and indirectly with her mothers death.

[Derpmind]

So, Lovecraft-esque cosmicism is yet another thread of philosophy that we're seeing in PH.

Somber took one of the evil stars in the distant backstory sky, killed it, brought it down to Equis and buried its undead corpse right under the middle of a city. Then the world ended. *A guitar screeches, then the heavy metal PH theme song begins.*

[Guest]

So, Lovecraft-esque cosmicism is yet another thread of philosophy that we're seeing in PH.

Somber took one of the evil stars in the distant backstory sky, killed it, brought it down to Equis and buried its undead corpse right under the middle of a city. Then the world ended.  *A guitar screeches, then the heavy metal PH theme song begins.*

It's not really heavy metal, but I do like this song for at least one of the early-on theme songs. Juuuuuust saaaaayin'

[Silver136]

...her mom becomes relevant? I barely remember her being mentioned in the beginning before Hired went off to "save" her brother, killing dozens and more of their colony's soldiers with that one random mare that joined her.
Did the mom die because their colony no longer had an adequate force to protect it after Hired's tantrum? I hope so, though Hired's actions having actual, lasting, non-beneficial consequences might be a little weird for the fic :P

Heroes Spoilers:

Also that mare is a lot less random than you think. What makes her relevant is really sad, but it comes into play later in flashbacks. And a good amount of the story so far revolves around the non-beneficial effects of Hired's actions.

[O. Hinds]

hell, I love your sketches and have made a habit of saving them off to a readily accessible file.

Any chance that’s a publicly viewable gdocs file or something?

It is now. Roughly, it's in blog format, with page breaks between (what I believe were) separate instances of him publishing them, in reverse chronological order.

I'll post here the stuff you're missing, at least as much as has been posted to my deviantart.

My first and second post of this nature on EQD, from which somber pulled some skits:

And another thing from around that time:

Then I did more, because people liked them:

The first set lifted directly from a review:

After that's just the ones I did for Murky Number Seven, which probably shouldn't be part of your collection.

I never really realized I'd written so much stupid stuff. I wonder how long they'd be if it was all converted it all into PH-style writing.

:D

[Rayndalf]

Just wondering about the named weapons.
If Vigilance is currently in Glory's possession, and the Star Metal Sword and Folly are MIA, what happened to Duty and Sacrifice?

[Meleagridis]

Just wondering about the named weapons.
If Vigilance is currently in Glory's possession, and the Star Metal Sword and Folly are MIA, what happened to Duty and Sacrifice?

Sword isn't MIA, we just don't know where Slave Willing is. Yet.

Everything is canon until proven otherwise, right?

[Exodus Hero]

Just wondering about the named weapons.
If Vigilance is currently in Glory's possession, and the Star Metal Sword and Folly are MIA, what happened to Duty and Sacrifice?

Sword isn't MIA, we just don't know where Slave Willing is. Yet.

Everything is canon until proven otherwise, right?

*high pitched girlish squeal*

[Rayndalf]

Just wondering about the named weapons.
If Vigilance is currently in Glory's possession, and the Star Metal Sword and Folly are MIA, what happened to Duty and Sacrifice?

Sword isn't MIA, we just don't know where Slave Willing is. Yet.

Everything is canon until proven otherwise, right?

Very true...

[SilentCarto]

On a slightly related note, I fear it's too late to warn Glory and co. that "Blackjack" is an imposter...

Naaah. It did look like Cogs broke up with Glory there, but that'll just give Glory some good old-fashioned righteous anger once BJ gets back to the real world and blows the deception wide open.

I suspect P-21 is already onto her, or at least has his suspicions. He's sharp, and I don't think Cogs is a good enough actress to pull off BJ's mix of conflicting psychoses while suppressing her own that perfectly. In other words, he's Twilight to her Copy Cadence.

Perhaps more surprising was Amadi. In particular, his interpretation of the stars' message was plausible, and I'd normally think little of it. But he's got a thing about prophesy and should have known to be more skeptical, more thorough. And yet I can see why it happens, with him interpreting the message to mean what he wanted to hear after waiting so long.

Well, that sort of implies that the evil stars were actively trying to to screw him over with a cryptic answer. I would think, instead, that they were saying, "Look, she's mindless, and you just blew up her brain. There's this tiny little chance that she could be recovered if all these horrible people manage to work together, and each of them are willing to sacrifice their lives for this, and then she manages to beat up a guy in power armor with her bare hooves. Which, of course, is the kind of unlikely chain of events that Discord is all about.

I sort of have this mental image of Dawn and Snips behind the computer while Cogs tries to fire Horizons, looking at each and other going, "Wow, we really fucked up, huh?"

Kinda surprised you didn't make a joke about how [REDACTED] lacking the speach enchantments was because he has an incredibly unattractive voice or something.

Like Jake and the translator from adventure time.

Hah! Or maybe he's completely unintellegible even with it.  (Actually, taking that more seriously, maybe he doesn't want Whisper to know he has a birth defect that gives him a speech impediment...)

[O. Hinds]

Hah! Or maybe he's completely unintellegible even with it. (Actually, taking that more seriously, maybe he doesn't want Whisper to know he has a birth defect that gives him a speech impediment...)

We know he doesn't, though; he's used the frequency-change-whatever magic before, and he sounded fine.

[SilentCarto]

So, Lovecraft-esque cosmicism is yet another thread of philosophy that we're seeing in PH.

Actually, I found PH much less so than FOE. FOE expressed, at best, uncertainty about stars in general, but certainty that there are beings of ultimate evil out there. PH provides a much more direct and sympathetic view of stars. Most of them are quite benign, and indeed seek to protect the life forms on their respective worlds. Granted, they may be somewhat apathetic about saving a world that's as close to the brink as Equestria is, but I don't blame them for looking out for the bigger picture. The point is, PH makes it seem a lot more like a friendly cosmos with the majority of stars working together to build something beautiful, spoiled only by a few bad eggs.

Keeping in mind that said spoilage involves extinction-level events.

“The light of stars that died long ago, and would not go quietly into the darkness.”

Oh.
Shit.
The Eater of Souls isn't just inadvertently helping the Things that Live in the Dark. It is one. Or... what's left of one after another star sacrified itself to destroy it.

Not sure I follow your logic, but it would be SO AWESOME if that were true

I had always operated under the assumption that you had stars, which were beings of light and life that sung to hold back the Things that Live in the Dark. The Things were Lovecraftian entities of great power and malice that dwell in the silent voids of the cosmos, their origin ancient and obscure. The Eater of Souls, then, would be an aberration; a star gone bad whose prideful attempts to protect the universe by himself made him as big a threat as the Things themselves.

But then we get this:
“The light of stars that died long ago, and would not go quietly into the darkness.”

That sounds exactly like the Eater's story. If Amadi is to be believed, the Eater is not as unique as I'd thought. The Things are, themselves, other stars that similarly refused to die peacefully when their time came. The Eater is just the youngest such being, struck down before it could further disrupt the harmony of the cosmos.

This very likely explains the Enervation spell that struck Equestria at the same time the Eater fell -- one or more of those other stars took an interest in fostering this new evil and cast a wave of Enervation against the planet to give the Eater many souls to consume. Or maybe the Eater really died for good when it was originally destroyed, and these other evil stars are merely resonating its corpse. (Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas!) After all, if a spell is the frequency of a soul, then perhaps getting the corpse of a being similar to oneself to resonate with one's own magic would give you a proxy, an imitation of your own soul. Is the voice in the green light the Eater's voice, or the voice of the dark star that cast the Enervation spell as the Eater landed?

But then again, what is 'death' for a star, after all? Can it be resurrected? (That is not dead which can eternal lie...)

Edit: Fuck.

But by chance a world, green and rife with the tiny specks of ghost light, drifted too near.  The twisted remains curved towards it, speeding as they plunged towards the highest snow-capped mountain.

Amadi's patrons spoke of "their secret orbits" and "the tiniest wobble of the outplay of events", "a hair’s shift out of alignment". I'll bet a week's rations they were responsible for that "curve" that brought the Eater juuust close enough to fall to Equestria.

We know he doesn't, though; he's used the frequency-change-whatever magic before, and he sounded fine.

Oh, you're right, he borrowed Tenebra's helmet. I forgot.
...but I liked my theory.  

[SilentCarto]

…Hey.  I just realized something.  At this point, his civilization is composed only of batponies.  Who don't need a chalkboard to understand him.  And, since he wasn't supposed to contact any other ponies and radhogs aren't known for their literacy… he had no legitimate reason to have it with him.  He planned this.  Not this specifically, of course, but he set out with the intention of making contact.

Well... he knew he was going to the surface/light world/whatever. It'd be kind of stupid not to bring along the necessary gear for communication, even if he didn't specifically plan on using it. Same reason you stick a flashlight in your car's glovebox -- you don't expect to need it on any given trip, but if something goes wrong and you need it, you REALLY need it.

Which isn't to say he didn't head out with certain plans, just that there's a legitimate excuse under the heading of "Be Prepared".

[O. Hinds]

…Hey.  I just realized something.  At this point, his civilization is composed only of batponies.  Who don't need a chalkboard to understand him.  And, since he wasn't supposed to contact any other ponies and radhogs aren't known for their literacy… he had no legitimate reason to have it with him.  He planned this.  Not this specifically, of course, but he set out with the intention of making contact.

Well... he knew he was going to the surface/light world/whatever. It'd be kind of stupid not to bring along the necessary gear for communication, even if he didn't specifically plan on using it. Same reason you stick a flashlight in your car's glovebox -- you don't expect to need it on any given trip, but if something goes wrong and you need it, you REALLY need it.

Which isn't to say he didn't head out with certain plans, just that there's a legitimate excuse under the heading of "Be Prepared".

:)

[SilentCarto]

Okay, so, I made an account here just to comment.  First and foremost, I love this fic, it's second only to the original Fallout Equestria.  That being said, I hated chapter 65!  The first half was fine, but the last half was so BAD!!!  But, chapter 66 made up for much of that.

Hey, welcome to the Hoof! Always nice to get a new poster.

That said, I'd like to remind you that Somber reads this thread, so rudeness and putdowns are not much appreciated. If you have specific complaints about chapter 65 after BJ's capture, I'd be interested to discuss what you disliked, but just declaring it "bad" is... well... bad.

You might wonder why one of those guesses is "Blackjack is evil". Well... That's because, I have this really off feeling that the next chapter will end with Blackjack somehow catching up with them... and then, right at the end, in unbelivable plot twist, Glory will turn on her or knock her out.

Eh, I wouldn't be too worried about Glory. Imagine your best friend started acting weird and told you they didn't want to be friends anymore. Then someone shows up who looks exactly like your best friend and tells you they still like you and that other one was a fake. It's not that hard to believe, is it?

Intriguing. Similarly, there could also be a quasi-reunion between Rainbow, Flutters, and Twilight (? I was never quite sure whether her soul dissipated or not).

Twilight moved on. Her body (what was left of it) was destroyed by the megaspell, and as Littlepip noted, a soul can't live without its body for very long (outside of the blackest of black magics, of course.) It's okay -- she's with AJ, Pinkie, and Rarity now. They've been waiting.

Am I really the only person who puts the entire blame on zebra for the Wasteland?! I mean, sure, I know that ponies were to blame for it too, but the whole reason why zebra's escalated the war was because they couldn't tell a freaking difference between Luna and Nightmare Moon!

Not exactly. They just didn't believe in her redemption. She had been fully under the sway of the Stars (Amadi's stars, in our understanding), and one doesn't just shrug that off. And, hell, who's to say they're not right, to some degree? After Luna's full disclosure in this chapter, can you really say that it was all 100% nothing but Luna and her insecurities the whole time, or might she have been... nudged? She may not have been the servant of Amadi's stars anymore, but perhaps there were a handful of moments when she could have gone either way, and all it took was a little poke in the psyche to set Luna and Equestria on the most disastrous course possible.

On the other hand, there were plenty of chances for others who were not touched by the stars to stop it. Luna couldn't lead without willing followers. Whatever scams Luna was running, and whatever nudges the Stars may have given her, the responsibility for the end of the world falls on a lot of different people, pony and zebra alike. That's not to say they're all to blame; I believe there's a lot of 20/20 hindsight to be found here, and someone in the thick of things wouldn't necessarily understand the course they were on and how they could have changed it simply by standing up and saying, "No, I won't do this any longer."

But blame can still be laid at a lot of hooves, too; people who should have known better, or did, and went ahead anyway for selfish reasons. Luna is most definitely first among them. She understood why the zebras kept fighting, but she didn't act to halt it in the most efficient way possible. She kept fighting what could only be a genocidal conflict because any surrender or concession would have felt like losing, and her ego couldn't allow her to be inferior to Celestia once again. (And if the stars had some influence over her, I think that's where the whole "nudge" thing comes in.)

[OneMoreDaySK]

@Silent

It's okay -- she's with AJ, Pinkie, and Rarity now. They've been waiting.

Not entirely sure with Rarity, as bits and pieces of her soul are still in the figurines. Thinking about a story where some character is charged with ending characters that have lived far too long.


Trying to put the blame on one side of the conflict is just grounds for black and white washing the event. Pony aristocrasy and business were part of the source of conflict, with demands for resources that the Zebras owned but didn't need anything to trade for. Caesar was trying to put on a bravado of force to reinforce that he wasn't a pansy. Lots of innocents were caught up in this event.

[Guest]

@Silent

It's okay -- she's with AJ, Pinkie, and Rarity now. They've been waiting.

Not entirely sure with Rarity, as bits and pieces of her soul are still in the figurines. Thinking about a story where some character is charged with ending characters that have lived far too long.

Yeah, I can't remember where, but I'm decently sure it's plainly stated in either PH or FO:E that if you made a sould jar you cannot pass on.

I think it was FO:E, I remember that Pip knew that and still held onto the figurines like they were trophies and that always bothered me. Could be wrong.

[Meleagridis]

Yeah, I can't remember where, but I'm decently sure it's plainly stated in either PH or FO:E that if you made a sould jar you cannot pass on.

But she isn't quite a soul jar- she split. She and Octavia both have souls (or at least parts) that are within their actual bodies. What might happen to them? Do they pass? Fade? If the jars are destroyed, do the halves reunite? Is a split soul less somehow?

I don't think it's been addressed in PH what the major side effects of having half a soul are. And as much as it saddens me to say, I think we're a little too deep for that particular bit of world building to be addressed in narrative.

[Rayndalf]

So what actually happened to Duty and Sacrifice? Does Cogs have them?

[Somber]

Soul jars will be addressed in the afterwards.

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