Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

[OneMoreDaySK]

Not to mention all the tech and industries that sprung up. Those companies under AJ's ministry aren't going down without a fight. They might form PMCS to deal with 'potential theats'.

Also, can't remember due to RPing too much: have there been mention of buffalo in FOE stories, or has species been limited to ponies, griffins, and zebras?

[Somber]

I have headcanon to that.  The buffalo were approached for access to materials under their lands.  At first they were accepting that the removal of certain minerals would be limited and that care would be taken to protect their lands and avoid sacred areas.  Businesses were salivating at getting a piece of Buffalo held land and only Celestia kept them at bay.  At first, Equestria tried to honor those agreements, but by year five the protection quotas kept rising and 'mistakes' began to occur.  By Litthehorn, Celestia, burned out by the conflict and stress of wide spread war, barely bothered to keep the businesses operating mining operations in check, and many of those businesses cut corners and threatened sacred areas.

When Princess Luna came to power, there was a brief hope that she would keep the businesses in line.  And she did, but suddenly the material needs of the ministries loomed large.  All of them put increased pressure on the Buffalo who, led by Strongheart, declared Equestria in violation of the agreements and organized a stampede of thousands of buffalo to force Equestria out of their lands.  Luna's generals saw this as a threat to the war effort AND giving aid to their enemies.  The Equestrian military sent out their latest arcane weapon... the Raptor.  In just ten minutes, the slaughter at Ghost Horn river would be one of the blackest marks in Equestrian history... if anyone had known about it.  After that, the Buffalo were herded into a 'resettlement' area and the Buffalo lands were strip mined.  The ecological damage was equal to anything achieved by a balefire bomb.

[OneMoreDaySK]

Would make sense. The buffalo don't really seem to be all for tech, instead being more traditional. MoI would make sure that this is downplayed, or even modified so that the 'evil' buffalo refused to aid them in time of need.

Also, is headcanon having Neighpon exist? If so, wonder what happens there.

[O. Hinds]

Oh, it's all correct, of course. But the phrasing seemed, to me, to be a little humorous, in that it was a mathematical fact without any context presented to connect it to the story,"I believe that it's a significant number in the card game blackjack" seems to have either a certain lack of confidence or a heavy dose of irony.

Ah.  Well, I suppose that I could have looked up the card game to find out for sure; my apologies.  As for the mathematical fact, I was pointing out that twenty-one is the product of two numbers that are often considered significant.

Well, the alicorns wouldn't be an issue, at least not as they existed in FoE, since the Goddess wouldn't have been formed. So at least there's that.

Hm, I don't think that we can say that.  Would something like the Goddess form?  Probably not.  We know that it's possible, though, and we don't even know exactly what system Twilight was trying for, much less what she might have ended up with.  And, beyond that, even if the alicorn project didn't result in fanatic supersoldiers, combine it with Steelpony…
In addition, even if there wasn't impetus to develop such technology originally, there would be after an Equestrian victory.  Equestria's new lands need to be kept under control, but Equestria only has so many soldiers.  The solution?  Increase the size of Equestria's army and decrease the size of the population to control at the same time.  Oh, and there was that loyalty megaspell...

Maybe I'm just playing the starry-eyed optimist here, but I'd like to think that we'd be looking at a West German de-Nazification or the postwar Japanese experience where, yes, the government was right out and there were even some executions, but on the whole the people were treated pretty well and recovered comparably to the continental Allies.

Yes, I'd call that excessive optimism.  I'd also say that you're basing your comparisons off the incorrect side's victory.

I think civil war isn't unlikely when people raised to hate are suddenly deprived of their common foe.

Well, while there are the pegasi wanting to stop being killed by war, the destabilization caused by a lack of fighting might be partially resolved by finding another war.  There's plenty of world left to conquer, now that Equestria has the taste for it.  And, actually, this fits in nicely with the alicorn project stuff above; the pegasi problem can be solved by ending the draft on ponies and just using volunteers and converted zebras.
Granted, Equestria would eventually run out of places to conquer, but perhaps they'd have thought of a solution by then.

Also, is headcanon having Neighpon exist? If so, wonder what happens there.

It's mentioned in PH and is included on my map of Equestria, and we've done a bit with in in the setting thread.

edited to correct quote attribution error

[OneMoreDaySK]

Hinds, you misquoted. I asked the question about Neighpon. Regardless, I think I need to check out the settings thread now.

[Guest]

Not to mention all the tech and industries that sprung up. Those companies under AJ's ministry aren't going down without a fight. They might form PMCS to deal with 'potential theats'.

Also, can't remember due to RPing too much: have there been mention of buffalo in FOE stories, or has species been limited to ponies, griffins, and zebras?

There's at least one in 63. I think. He/she is fighting for a position in big daddy's top ten, maybe. I do remember it being there, just not what it was doing. Don't think it was mentioned.

[OneMoreDaySK]

So it mentions one exists, just nothing to do with the plot. Guess I'll have to go by Somber's headcanon for the story then. Now I wonder about the unmentioned characters and what they're up to at this point, i.e. Silver Spoon's group and Whisper. I'd be guessing they eventually found the stable, and Silver eventually comes to terms with her friend being gone. Whisper on the other hand had to deal with the other batponies. I'm kinda seeing somethings Game of Thrones-ish going on in that part of the world.

[O. Hinds]

Hinds, you misquoted. I asked the question about Neighpon. Regardless, I think I need to check out the settings thread now.

Dear me! How did I do that? I am so sorry, to both you and Somber.

[O. Hinds]

Regarding the settings thread, I'm glad you're interested... though I do warn you that it's a bit long.  The first part starts here, and the second part is what's currently active.

[SilentCarto]

I think civil war isn't unlikely when people raised to hate are suddenly deprived of their common foe.

Well, while there are the pegasi wanting to stop being killed by war, the destabilization caused by a lack of fighting might be partially resolved by finding another war.  There's plenty of world left to conquer, now that Equestria has the taste for it.  And, actually, this fits in nicely with the alicorn project stuff above; the pegasi problem can be solved by ending the draft on ponies and just using volunteers and converted zebras.
Granted, Equestria would eventually run out of places to conquer, but perhaps they'd have thought of a solution by then.

The alicorns do pretty much cover the pegasus complaints, but I think the proto-Enclave's thinking is indicative of the "War Generation". The pegasi who were raised to hate zebras for being zebras don't take much of a push to shift into an us-versus-them mentality against the other pony tribes as well. While a similar rift didn't develop between the more integrated unicorns and earth ponies, I don't doubt the generation had the same ways of thinking. I believe that, if charges were leveled against Luna, the split between those who think of themselves as "loyal to Luna" and those who see themselves as "upholding the law" would rapidly descend into a civil war with each side branding the other as "traitors" and "criminals". The chances for reconciliation in that case seem remote to me.

[Scienza]

I think civil war isn't unlikely when people raised to hate are suddenly deprived of their common foe.

Well, while there are the pegasi wanting to stop being killed by war, the destabilization caused by a lack of fighting might be partially resolved by finding another war.  There's plenty of world left to conquer, now that Equestria has the taste for it.  And, actually, this fits in nicely with the alicorn project stuff above; the pegasi problem can be solved by ending the draft on ponies and just using volunteers and converted zebras.
Granted, Equestria would eventually run out of places to conquer, but perhaps they'd have thought of a solution by then.

The alicorns do pretty much cover the pegasus complaints, but I think the proto-Enclave's thinking is indicative of the "War Generation". The pegasi who were raised to hate zebras for being zebras don't take much of a push to shift into an us-versus-them mentality against the other pony tribes as well. While a similar rift didn't develop between the more integrated unicorns and earth ponies, I don't doubt the generation had the same ways of thinking. I believe that, if charges were leveled against Luna, the split between those who think of themselves as "loyal to Luna" and those who see themselves as "upholding the law" would rapidly descend into a civil war with each side branding the other as "traitors" and "criminals". The chances for reconciliation in that case seem remote to me.

There's definitely a rift between unicorns and earth ponies forming towards the end of the war. Equestria's technological development had radically diverged into magical (megaspells, alicorns) and conventional (Steel Rangers, other things that go boom) tech, with the latter nonetheless growing increasingly reliant on the former. Earth ponies were forced to rely on science that they at best couldn't test or perform, and at worst couldn't even understand. Horse's comments in 53 illustrates how increasingly resentful the earth pony population was growing towards the hornheads. The struggle for power between the inordinately powerful practically all-unicorn aristocracy and the aggressive product of Applejack's nepotism restructuring would serve to further divide the two races.

He looked at her and arched a brow, then smiled.  “Truth be told, I hate every last one of you.”  He turned to looked at the passing stone walls again.  “It’s jealousy, really.  You get to do magic.  We can’t.  It’s your dream to do incredible magic.  Well, it’s my dream to someday have technology so advanced that there won’t be a difference between unicorns and anypony else.  We’ll all be equal.”

[SilentCarto]

There's definitely a rift between unicorns and earth ponies forming towards the end of the war. Equestria's technological development had radically diverged into magical (megaspells, alicorns) and conventional (Steel Rangers, other things that go boom) tech, with the latter nonetheless growing increasingly reliant on the former. Earth ponies were forced to rely on science that they at best couldn't test or perform, and at worst couldn't even understand. Horse's comments in 53 illustrates how increasingly resentful the earth pony population was growing towards the hornheads. The struggle for power between the inordinately powerful practically all-unicorn aristocracy and the aggressive product of Applejack's nepotism restructuring would serve to further divide the two races.

This is true. I was thinking of the more blatant rift created by effectively pegasus-only cloud cities, but you bring up a valid point. It's not clear how widespread Horse's attitude is, though.

He looked at her and arched a brow, then smiled.  “Truth be told, I hate every last one of you.”  He turned to looked at the passing stone walls again.  “It’s jealousy, really.  You get to do magic.  We can’t.  It’s your dream to do incredible magic.  Well, it’s my dream to someday have technology so advanced that there won’t be a difference between unicorns and anypony else.  We’ll all be equal.”

[Harmony Ltd.]

Hinds, you misquoted. I asked the question about Neighpon. Regardless, I think I need to check out the settings thread now.

FYI, as it's buried down a lot of other chatter and there isn't much to say anyway thus far (we haven't touched much on it)...

the following is my personnal headcanon:

[OneMoreDaySK]

So Neighpon turned into Pompeii. That's an interesting idea.

My own guess is that they originally had a balance of different species, including zebras. They tried to mediate when tensions arose, but when Equestria declared war with the Caesar, both sides attempted to appeal to the city, one to defect and join the legion, the other to drive out the zebras. Neighpon chose instead to secede, joining neither side and assisting refugees. Armies from both sides attempted to take over the city, but it held. Only fell when fake refugees chemical / magically suicide bombed the place.

This may or may not have Ionian influneces.

[O. Hinds]

...Why would they secede, and how would they get away with it? Both of those seem really unbelievable. In any case, though, I recommend that this conversation move to the setting thread, as it's getting a bit off topic for the PH discussion thread.

[OneMoreDaySK]

Apologies, just some random speculation on my part. Not grounded in anything. Also I should really check out the Settings Thread.

[FeatherDust]

I must be badly out of sync with the rest of the fandom, because I really liked the Breezy episode, but I didn't like Maud Pie at all

I liked Maud better than you did, but I did think it dragged in the middle a good bit. I always get a little tired of the character who apparently can't understand metaphor or idiom.

The Breezy thing wasn't bad, it was very cute and all, but I agree with some of the comments I've seen that it spends a lot of time explaining, but not explaining the right things. We don't need to spend so many lines examining why they can't adjust wind speed to help this group of breezies catch up with that other group or re-explaining some plot point -- but we could use an extra five or ten seconds on why it's bad to be carried to the portal on pegasus-back but fine to sit around somebody's house for hours and hours (why didn't the pollen go bad from that?) or looking at why the other breezies are so blase about getting home.

My headcannon is that Seabreeze wasn't entirely wrong (just rude) when he said the others were dummies; it's no coincidence that the one who has the smarts and drive to learn to speak english is also the one who has a sense of responsibility about getting their group to the doorway on time. Maybe your average breezy is something like the original version of Tinkerbell, "so small they can only feel one thing at a time", so a breezy who's having fun is just uninterested in moving along to the next thing, and doesn't think about time and schedules.

[FeatherDust]

Ponies also had a thousand years of Celestia's rule, but they were able to adapt to the new government relatively quickly. So, I think that ponies would be able to transition from Luna's government to a new system.

Not really.  Quick adaptation like that was a reaction to terror and horror after Littlehorn.  They weren't saying "Yes, what we need is a stronger government with more intrusion into our lives!"  They were saying "OH GOD THIS IS TERRIBLE SOMEPONY DO SOMETHING!" and not looking too closely at what the 'something' entailed.  (And to be fair, the ones "doing something" weren't looking too closely as the long-term effects of their efforts; they were just trying to flail towards the goal with no real idea of how to get there.)

It's much easier to get people to do something because of fear and panic than to change, as it seems, just for the sake of change.  Is your average pony going to support restraints on the queen who saw them through the war and out the other side?  Are they going to support prosecution of famous people who took a "do whatever we have to" stance?  No -- they'd call it persecution of the winners.

you know its bad when the apocalypse becomes the best outcome.....

Yep, and that's what Pinkie said, more or less, in the prison cell orb.  The bombs are the best chance for the future.  (oop, Carto got there first.  Figures.)

I gather that there were very few outcomes that didn't involve a full megaspell exchange, and if there were, they were too horrifying to consider.

I expect most of the alternatives involved something like the Core's dream-world.  If they'd won with weapons like Steelpony and IMP, those genies wouldn't go back into the bottle when the war ended.  They'd be only the start of twisting the whole population into something that's no longer human (er, pony.  You know what I mean!) and likely under the influence or outright control of an entity like the Eater.

Well, the alicorns wouldn't be an issue, at least not as they existed in FoE, since the Goddess wouldn't have been formed. So at least there's that.

Not as they were in FoE, but that doesn't mean safe. It isn't clear whether the hive mind thing is an inherent part of IMP-alicorns or created by the Goddess using Gestalt and Mosaic as two quarters of her base. Even if they weren't hive-minded, telepathic, or otherwise inherently un-pony, it's a seriously large population of -- let's face it -- inherently superior life forms. Even if they kept their minds and souls intact through all that, how long before they form an aristocracy that looks down on anyone who chose not to change?

[Luminous Lead]

Not to mention all the tech and industries that sprung up. Those companies under AJ's ministry aren't going down without a fight. They might form PMCS to deal with 'potential theats'.

Also, can't remember due to RPing too much: have there been mention of buffalo in FOE stories, or has species been limited to ponies, griffins, and zebras?

Begin Again has at least two factions of buffalo.

[RoboRed]

Latest post from Kkat: http://www.fimfiction.net/blog/300179/the-littlehorn-valley-recordings

On other, unrelated news, someone on derpiboru did R34 of Boo. I honestly don't know how to feel about this.

[Silver136]

Latest post from Kkat: http://www.fimfiction.net/blog/300179/the-littlehorn-valley-recordings

On other, unrelated news, someone on derpiboru did R34 of Boo. I honestly don't know how to feel about this.

That's kind of weird, not only being r34, but it's boo. How would that even work?

[Loud_Taffy]

Hi I'm new to the forum, just wanted to say a few things. First, this has got to be hands down the best story I have ever read. Second, I love that it isn't tragic like the first FoE. Third it better not end with blackjack dying and everyone reminiscing about her to her kid. And last, I totally got all the star wats doctor who FMA and the other references. Keep up the good work y'all and I patiently await the next chapter.

[WavemasterRyx]

On other, unrelated news, someone on derpiboru did R34 of Boo. I honestly don't know how to feel about this.

That's kind of weird, not only being r34, but it's boo. How would that even work?

Well... it's just a plot-shot.  Since ponies don't wear clothes, it's quite literally what you would see just by approaching her from back, nothing really special...

Of course I'm weird though, and have considered drawing similar (or worse) things myself...

Hi I'm new to the forum [...]

Welcome, Taffy. I hope you enjoy your stay.

[O. Hinds]

Hi I'm new to the forum, just wanted to say a few things. First, this has got to be hands down the best story I have ever read. Second, I love that it isn't tragic like the first FoE. Third it better not end with blackjack dying and everyone reminiscing about her to her kid. And last, I totally got all the star wats doctor who FMA and the other references. Keep up the good work y'all and I patiently await the next chapter.

I already welcomed you in the chat thread, but welcome again. And yes, as swicked said, we hope to get it out this weekend or the next.

To everyone: Please don't take that as a reason to crowd the hub page so much that we can't actually access it to release the chapter.

[SilentCarto]

First, this has got to be hands down the best story I have ever read.

You must not read much.   

I kid, but seriously, this kind of comment actually sort of bothers me. It feels a little... well... disingenuous to toss around superlatives like "best story ever" which, let's be honest, can't possibly hold up. My gut reaction goes something like, "Well, it's nice of you to say that, but we both know you're just saying that."

Which is in no way a dig against Somber. He's done an amazing job, and I've loved every minute of this ride. It's just that I, for one, would be hard-pressed to select my favorite author when I have to compare, say, Terry Pratchett's humor against Lovecraft's amosphere or Jim Butcher's energy, much less pick out a favorite story. I think it's a much higher honor to compliment something specific.

PH is so gripping that I have to make sure I have a four-hour block free before I start reading a chapter, it does a great job of making me empathize with the characters, and it has managed to tug some heartstrings I was sure had been completely desensitized by FOE. (And no, I'm not talking about Black. It's the quiet, contemplative moments that really get me, like when BJ has finally turned on the sabotaged air talisman and there's nothing left to do but stand there and watch her home die.)

[O. Hinds]

First, this has got to be hands down the best story I have ever read.

You must not read much.   

I kid, but seriously, this kind of comment actually sort of bothers me. It feels a little... well... disingenuous to toss around superlatives like "best story ever" which, let's be honest, can't possibly hold up. My gut reaction goes something like, "Well, it's nice of you to say that, but we both know you're just saying that."

Which is in no way a dig against Somber. He's done an amazing job, and I've loved every minute of this ride. It's just that I, for one, would be hard-pressed to select my favorite author when I have to compare, say, Terry Pratchett's humor against Lovecraft's amosphere or Jim Butcher's energy, much less pick out a favorite story. I think it's a much higher honor to compliment something specific.

PH is so gripping that I have to make sure I have a four-hour block free before I start reading a chapter, it does a great job of making me empathize with the characters, and it has managed to tug some heartstrings I was sure had been completely desensitized by FOE. (And no, I'm not talking about Black. It's the quiet, contemplative moments that really get me, like when BJ has finally turned on the sabotaged air talisman and there's nothing left to do but stand there and watch her home die.)

I too would have quite a difficult time picking an absolute favorite, but I don't see why this couldn't indeed be, in their opinion, the best story that Lord_Taffy has ever read. That status depends on the perceived-by-them qualities of all stories ever read by Lord_Taffy, which we do not know.

[Loud_Taffy]

I have read everything from Harry potter to pendragon, Star Trek, and FoE. I can say with confidence that this is the most gripping and satisfying plot I have read so far. I started reading last week and I am now halfway through ch. 64. I've prob ruined my eyesight reading on my phone but still best story I've read so far.

[FeatherDust]

That's kind of weird, not only being r34, but it's boo. How would that even work?

Um... Not to be crude, but what do you mean, how would it work? Moral implications aside, Boo is physically all there... She's mindless (pre-core), not a Barbie doll...

[Silver136]

That's kind of weird, not only being r34, but it's boo. How would that even work?

Um... Not to be crude, but what do you mean, how would it work?  Moral implications aside, Boo is physically all there... She's mindless (pre-core), not a Barbie doll...

I suppose I was thinking more along the lines of "how would it happen?" Boo has only now spoken, and that's under the control of Discord. She can't really say anything then so I guess I'm looking at consensuality. Just over thinking it I guess. I do that a lot.

[O. Hinds]

And yes, as swicked said, we hope to get it out this weekend or the next.

Best case scenario we get it out this weekend. There's a lot of work for a single day, but Hinds has said they've done as much before. Not in my experience, but I'm new.
Most likely next weekend, barring something dramatic.

Wait, a single day?  What?  Do you know something I don't?

As far as I'm aware, we've a full session scheduled for Saturday and six hours on Sunday.

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