Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

[cb5]

FoE had an entirely disappointing, cliched and unfulfilling ending that raised more questions then answered. Folks should at least know that so they wouldn't be disappointed waiting for a satisfying conclusion like I was. :(

The problem with FoE is that Kkat ended several story arcs all at once.  The enclave and red eye story arcs ended right after maripony's and stable 2's story arc which is what the problem was.  If Kkat had added like five or ten more chapters then the ending would have been a lot better.

That's why I think PH's eventual ending will be better the goddess story arc has been slowly going on for ages, but it wrapped up well, and even though it's going into the enclave story arc the pacing is a lot slower than FoE's pacing towards the end.  Pretty much the only real things to wrap up now are the enclave and the eater of souls which both cognitium and the zebra ruler guy tie into.

Sanguine is wrapped up, p-21 and scotch tape is wrapped up, glory's is probably going to be wrapped up with the enclaves's story arc,  rampage is wrapping up cause she's a lot more stable psychologically now than when blackjack first met her, lacunae is wrapped up.

Pretty much the only things left are the enclave and EOS.

[Vergil]

FoE had an entirely disappointing, cliched and unfulfilling ending that raised more questions then answered. Folks should at least know that so they wouldn't be disappointed waiting for a satisfying conclusion like I was. :(

Although I agree, I wasn't so much disappointed as convinced I'd somehow been linked to a chapter from a completely different story instead.

[O. Hinds]

I've been thinking about endings.

I'm really intrigued by how Somber's going to deal with the Day of Sunshine and Rainbows. Maripony established that we're really close to Littlepip's Epic Final Battle of Epicness, and Blackjack's involvement (if any) in it will be interesting to see. I guess it all depends on whether PH's ending is independent of FO:E's ending, which is highly possible since Heroes is also after Sunshine and Rainbows.

Either way, I'll be incredibly sad when(if) Project Horizons ends.

10 days, to be exact. Well... sort of. There's a teeny bit of a disconnect in that Pip was actually trapped inside Maripony for nearly 2 days, while this one didn't really suggest that BJ was out for 40-someodd hours.

...Blast! I thought that I remembered something like that, looked through FoE for it, couldn't find it, and concluded that I'd misremembered. I'm very, very sorry, Somber! I don't really see a good way for us to change it now...

By the way, Hinds, little editing matter:

...I said as I looked at the luminesant ghoul.

Should be "luminescent".

Ah, thank you.

[Kaidon]

This is a tad late I guess, but..

Spoiler:

[FoolNeim]

Icy remarked about trademarked proper nouns a while back. Know what else is?

Scotch Tape.

Not really an easy fix. :(

Merely referencing a trademarked proper name in a work of fiction (or non-fiction) isn't violating anything. It happens all the time. You can't sue for it unless the makers of Scotch Tape (in this case 3M) think there are grounds for defamation (and explicitly the non-satirical kind). If you're selling Scotch Tape figurines you might be treading on thin ice, but in a work of fiction you're fine. Even if there was some bullshit defamation case brought against you could easily argue that this falls under the wide umbrella of "satire".

So you have about two layers of legal protection, if 3M even gave a fuck (they'd be really dumb to pursue this).

[FoolNeim]

Also, I've been gone a while and don't really post much. I haven't even gotten around to Chapter 59 since I've been really preoccupied.

I just was wondering if anyone knew if Somber was okay. Seemed like he'd hit another rough patch lately with things and it doesn't seem like he'd been around for a bit. Anyone seen him lately?

[Scienza]

rampage is wrapping up cause she's a lot more stable psychologically now than when blackjack first met her

Er, no, she seems, if anything, even more unhinged.

[O. Hinds]

I just was wondering if anyone knew if Somber was okay. Seemed like he'd hit another rough patch lately with things and it doesn't seem like he'd been around for a bit. Anyone seen him lately?

As for him not being around much recently, the last time I spoke to him was yesterday; it turns out that he's unable to log in to Cloudsville at the moment. We've gotten RoboRed on it, though (we'd also have CamoBadger if not for the flooding in Colorado).

[FeatherDust]

...Blast!  I thought that I remembered something like that, looked through FoE for it, couldn't find it, and concluded that I'd misremembered.  I'm very, very sorry, Somber!  I don't really see a good way for us to change it now...

The only thing I can think of is if BJ had to leave (because if the ticking rad meter?) before Pip was found; if she left during the start of the search and rescue process rather than at the end.

[FeatherDust]

Merely referencing a trademarked proper name in a work of fiction (or non-fiction) isn't violating anything. It happens all the time.

No, no. The issue isn't a legal one, but a logical one. Scotch Tape is a brand name and thus would not exist in Equestria.

[Technowolf]

Merely referencing a trademarked proper name in a work of fiction (or non-fiction) isn't violating anything. It happens all the time.

No, no. The issue isn't a legal one, but a logical one. Scotch Tape is a brand name and thus would not exist in Equestria.

Why not?  The name Scotch Tape comes from the fact that, back in the '20s, 3M decided to save money on manufacturing masking tape by only coating the outer quarter-inch of each side of the 2 inch rolls.  Car manufacturers (some of 3M's largest customers) sent back the tape (it didn't stick to cars), saying it was Scotch (20's slang for cheap), and 3M later got the idea to cut the quarter-inch strips off the sides and sell the resulting product to the public.  Who's to say that something similar didn't happen in Equestria?

[O. Hinds]

...Blast!  I thought that I remembered something like that, looked through FoE for it, couldn't find it, and concluded that I'd misremembered.  I'm very, very sorry, Somber!  I don't really see a good way for us to change it now...

The only thing I can think of is if BJ had to leave (because if the ticking rad meter?) before Pip was found; if she left during the start of the search and rescue process rather than at the end.

She'd just retreat to a safe distance, though, and keep watching (assuming that she retreated at all; this is Blackjack we're talking about). The extra time would be enough for the Fleur to make it all the way to Maripony, whereupon I'm sure Blackjack would insist that the whole party help, and then there'd be a break with FoE much bigger than just a difference in the calendar.
(Personally, I don't think that there's any problem here. My duty here is to carry out Somber's will, though, not my own, and his standing order is to try to keep things as much in line with FoE as possible.)

[Icy Shake]

Merely referencing a trademarked proper name in a work of fiction (or non-fiction) isn't violating anything. It happens all the time.

No, no. The issue isn't a legal one, but a logical one. Scotch Tape is a brand name and thus would not exist in Equestria.

Why not?  The name Scotch Tape comes from the fact that, back in the '20s, 3M decided to save money on manufacturing masking tape by only coating the outer quarter-inch of each side of the 2 inch rolls.  Car manufacturers (some of 3M's largest customers) sent back the tape (it didn't stick to cars), saying it was Scotch (20's slang for cheap), and 3M later got the idea to cut the quarter-inch strips off the sides and sell the resulting product to the public.  Who's to say that something similar didn't happen in Equestria?

I can honestly say that I didn't expect asking whether "Ripper" should be capitalized or not would lead to so much conversation. Or a history lesson.

[SilentCarto]

...Blast!  I thought that I remembered something like that, looked through FoE for it, couldn't find it, and concluded that I'd misremembered.  I'm very, very sorry, Somber!  I don't really see a good way for us to change it now...

If it's any consolation, I didn't notice either until I was in the midst of writing that sentence in reply to Scienza, and I started calculating how long was left. You're right, though, I don't see any reasonable way of letting BJ see both the blast and Twilicorn rescuing Pip without her friends arriving less than halfway in. It's unlikely that she was out for over a day given that Lac hadn't moved her, the rest of the team hadn't arrived, and the fallout hadn't started falling yet. There's a teeny-tiny possibility that Homage simply wasn't party to Pip's rescue, but I can't imagine that she wouldn't be glued to the monitors the entire time, even setting aside her ability to play back the recordings.

There's a potential fix in having BJ run off as Twilight/Psalm starts her search and assuming that Twi's soul holds out for more than a full day before she digs down far enough to unearth Pip -- which is exactly what I had assumed as of FOE, so no stretch there. Still, it very well may lose something in not letting BJ witness Pip's rescue and know that she's okay. I guess Homage could feed her the video of the rescue at some point, or something... after all, I'm sure Shadowbolt Tower acts as a part of the SPP and MASEBS system... but I would easily bow to the opinion that having BJ just walk off as Twilicorn gets to work would be less impactful. Or maybe it would emphasize her emotional state, I dunno.

Just my two bits. Don't spend it all in the same place.

[SilentCarto]

...Blast!  I thought that I remembered something like that, looked through FoE for it, couldn't find it, and concluded that I'd misremembered.  I'm very, very sorry, Somber!  I don't really see a good way for us to change it now...

The only thing I can think of is if BJ had to leave (because if the ticking rad meter?) before Pip was found; if she left during the start of the search and rescue process rather than at the end.

She'd just retreat to a safe distance, though, and keep watching (assuming that she retreated at all; this is Blackjack we're talking about).  The extra time would be enough for the Fleur to make it all the way to Maripony, whereupon I'm sure Blackjack would insist that the whole party help, and then there'd be a break with FoE much bigger than just a difference in the calendar.
(Personally, I don't think that there's any problem here.  My duty here is to carry out Somber's will, though, not my own, and his standing order is to try to keep things as much in line with FoE as possible.)

D'oh! Ninja'd. I don't think BJ would recommend helping. She noted that her rad meter spiked the moment she even peeked out from behind her rock, and there's plenty pulling her away from the site -- there's her newly reinstated mission to Thunderhead, her friends thinking she's left them, the danger of the area, the fact that she can't personally do anything to help, and not wanting to hang around the thing that used to be her friend. And possibly also the disgust she expressed over Pip's carelessness with the bomb. I could easily see BJ wanting to get her head together somewhere that's Not Here.

I understand that you're not going to make such a significant change yourself -- that's fine, and like I said, I'm not completely opposed to leaving it as-is. Just toying with the idea out loud.

[Icy Shake]

The extra time would be enough for the Fleur to make it all the way to Maripony, whereupon I'm sure Blackjack would insist that the whole party help, and then there'd be a break with FoE much bigger than just a difference in the calendar.

As SilentCarto has said, there's plenty to push Blackjack away. But even granting everything else, I don't think you need to worry about her asking her friends to help: even if nothing else he said holds, I don't think that she would want Glory, P-21, or Scotch Tape to try to help—or indeed be in the general vicinity of the valley—given that the radiation is such a profound, immediate threat to normals' lives.

[O. Hinds]

Not necessarily helping LittlePip (And, come on, you believe that Blackjack wouldn't try to help her? Sure, LittlePip balefired the place, and Blackjack isn't sure how to feel about that, leaning towards it being wrong. But she's also Blackjack, Softest Heart in the Wasteland,). The search is, after all, being carried out by Twilight in Lacunae's old body. There are quite a few ways in which that is relevant to Blackjack. As for helping: the party has an airship, which could cruise high overhead on observation, and Rampage, who could help dig through the rubble. Blackjack's party could also meet up with LittlePip's again.

I'm firmly in favor of leaving it as it is. Changing it would be quite a bit of work in some sensitive areas, and I see no reason to; PH is none the worse for it. I've not gotten any reply from Somber, though... he can sometimes be difficult to get in contact with, as he is understandably a busy person.

[WavemasterRyx]

Just to offer my unsolicited opinion, I don't think chapter 58 needs to be changed at all. Nor does Scotch Tape's name...

[Vergil]

Though there were alternatives that I would not have been opposed to, I'm with Hinds and Ryx. I'm extremely happy with 58 the way it is.

[Derpmind]

So operating on barely-conscious mode, I found this, and thought everyone might like the link sooner than later, so here's the link. Also, sorry I wasn't able to join the TF2 night.

Something something whatever. Good night night night.

[O. Hinds]

Okay, I've been in communication with Somber, and we've decided to leave 58 as it is. So no problem!

[O. Hinds]

So operating on barely-conscious mode, I found this, and thought everyone might like the link sooner than later, so here's the link. Also, sorry I wasn't able to join the TF2 night.

Something something whatever. Good night night night.

Did you mean to send the same link twice? Interesting, though.

[Scienza]

Since I now have a place to vent my fangushing, prepare for incoming somewhat out-of-date fangushing.

[fangushing]

I've been rereading Lucidity and I've realized why I love it so bloody much. Not only is it utterly believable (and in fact, "answers" a lot of questions about Blackjack's unkillableness), but it makes the reader, to some extent, want it to be true. Those sequences with Blackjack and Gin Rummy were just heartbreaking. You get to see her get a small bit of the closure she never had with her mother, and she's utterly torn between what she wants and what she knows to be true. It's just fantastic. Great job, Somber and assorted amazing magical editor men.

[/fangushing]

[Icy Shake]

I like the link. Pretty interesting, but I probably wouldn't have really noticed the change in the clocks. Instead, I would have put the break starting at "It's About Time," as otherwise I would have expected the time travel magic to make some sort of appearance. And Tartarus. But the core would have been the time travel.

Granted, it might have fit better with PH than the core anyway. It could be used as, say, a MAS/MoM inter-ministry project to get info from the future, cancelled after it either became apparent that certain paradoxes couldn't occur and the intelligence couldn't effectively be put to use, or a traitor/saboteur used it to plant false information.

Now, I'm basing this on the fact that "It's About Time" didn't really give any strong indication that the time travel spell used couldn't successfully impart new information that could change the original course of events: if Twilight had been someone else, or expecting the arrival of her future self (not necessarily then, but at some point, because she was hired to sit in a room and wait for that—and subsequently STFU and listen to herself, recording the relevant information dropped—until such time as she was ordered to go back) then at least the particular Charlie Foxtrot the episode went through would not happen.

[Scienza]

I like the link. Pretty interesting, but I probably wouldn't have really noticed the change in the clocks. Instead, I would have put the break starting at "It's About Time," as otherwise I would have expected the time travel magic to make some sort of appearance. And Tartarus. But the core would have been the time travel.

Granted, it might have fit better with PH than the core anyway. It could be used as, say, a MAS/MoM inter-ministry project to get info from the future, cancelled after it either became apparent that certain paradoxes couldn't occur and the intelligence couldn't effectively be put to use, or a traitor/saboteur used it to plant false information.

Now, I'm basing this on the fact that "It's About Time" didn't really give any strong indication that the time travel spell used couldn't successfully impart new information that could change the original course of events: if Twilight had been someone else, or expecting the arrival of her future self (not necessarily then, but at some point, because she was hired to sit in a room and wait for that—and subsequently STFU and listen to herself, recording the relevant information dropped—until such time as she was ordered to go back) then at least the particular Charlie Foxtrot the episode went through would not happen.

Alternately, you could also argue that time travel magic is the reason why the Fallout Equestria-verse breaks from the main ponyverse, especially with (and we all knew it was coming), the Twilicorn. In other words, somepony went back in time and changed the course of events. Twilight never gets an order of wings, ponies run out of coal, world explodes. And somewhere in the wasteland, a previously weak pony, now armed with the technology of the pre-war gods themselves, comes to dominate the forbidden core of a dark city of secrets. 

And who, you might ask, would screw up the real world to gain power in an alternate universe? Why, none other than Sunset Shimmer, main antagonist of Bratz: Horse Women Equestria Girls, the other thing which Fallout Equestria will hopefully never recognize. In it, she steals the Element of Magic to become demon satan of the humanverse, thus setting the precedent for her wanton disregard for the well-being of the ponyverse so that she can dominate other worlds.

[Icy Shake]

Sure, though there are still other big differences further in the past, like the number of other alicorns and the presence of a dragon under Canterlot. But I'd still expect someone to try to make time travel work as a weapon within the war, and probably the mirror pool as well. If not the ponies, then I think the zebras would, as a way to infinitely expand the capabilities of a single zebra infiltrated into Equestria—though finding a way to break the magical seal that was clearly placed on the cave off screen after the episode was over could be harder for them than the ponies, especially if they need to do it quickly and sneakily, presumably without knowing what spell was used.

[Scienza]

Agreed on the weaponized time spell bit. And what better way to eliminate Equestria's most dangerous weapon, a brilliant alicorn researcher of unspeakable magical power, than to create a world in which she never existed? One where she stayed a small, fragile unicorn lost in a sea of secrets and blood.

Hell, you could even argue that the reason why the time spell is never used or mentioned in FoE is because the zebras prevented Twilight from ever learning it.

The only real issue with using the time spell is that it defeats one of the major themes and ideas of Fallout Equestria as a whole, which is that the ponies and zebras didn't know what the future was going to hold, that they didn't know that the world was going to go to hell, and that they gleefully rushed forwards into oblivion without ever questioning why. The whole "if we do this, everybody dies" thing would probably have put a damper on that.

[Icy Shake]

Well, as an alicorn anyway. But I think that to be self-consistent, the offshoot/resulting world would need to lack the knowledge of, or capacity for (further), time travel, or else it would be used by the Equestrian government in the prosecution of their war against the zebras, and we can infer that they didn't, at least not successfully.

[Scienza]

Well, as an alicorn anyway. But I think that to be self-consistent, the offshoot/resulting world would need to lack the knowledge of, or capacity for (further), time travel, or else it would be used by the Equestrian government in the prosecution of their war against the zebras, and we can infer that they didn't, at least not successfully.

Aye, though that ties into my "zebras preventing Twilicorn from going Back to the Future" headcanon. Still, time-travel headcanon is probably the most fun and interesting way to explain any canon inconsistencies.

Though, now that I think of it, rampant use of time travel would actually work with the themes and ideas of Fallout Equestria. The defining theme of all time-travel literature is that your actions in the past have consequences. Step on a butterfly and it never evolves to become a changeling. Assassinate Ambassador Snugglesmiles' mother and he never grows up to negotiate peace between zebrakind and Equestria. Fiddle too much with the past, and everybody dies in balefire. This ties into Fallout Equestria's main theme, which is that your actions, for good or ill, have consequences.

Also, it's still totally Sunset Shimmer's fault.

[Formis_Fluttergod]

So, just to barge in without knocking, is there any chance of Project Horizons getting uploaded to FiMFiction?
It would be much earier to keep track of chapter updates and more accessible, up-to-date downloads (at the very least).

I realize it would just be another PH page to manage/moderate which would only mean more work for the people involved, that's why I'm only asking about it, not outright suggesting it.

EDIT: It's entirely possible it's already been asked (maybe even by me, I don't remember ) and answered, but I'm not willing to to go through all the Comment Threads to find out and the search feature is kinda retarded/useless.

[Sponsored content]