Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

[Guest]

I'm flying tomorrow, so it's nice that this will be what feels like the ONE time I go flying during which a new chapter of PH is released. =P Seriously, every time.

[Valikdu]

Incompetant Enclave just wasn't cutting it for me.

Be careful, you might get accused of violating canon again.  
Because Enclave being totally incompetent is an integral part of the final FoE act.

[EDI voice] That was a joke. [/EDI voice]

Sorry things are slow right now.

You have nothing to be sorry about. Take your time. We love you.

[tylertoon2]

Sorry things are slow right now.

You have nothing to be sorry about. Take your time. We love you.

Seconded.

[cb5]

So out of Fallon.  Back in with mom for a week or two for one last round of applications... then down to Vegas, I guess.  Sigh.  Made a little progress with 59.  Had to rework it.  Incompetant Enclave just wasn't cutting it for me.  Sorry things are slow right now.

As someone who destroys it whenever I am getting intervewed the number one thing that people get wrong when interviewed is when a interviewer asks, "what is the thing you are weakest at?" don't answer honestly answer by going, "The thing that challenges me the most is" and then blow them out of the water with your self confidence by phrasing it in a way as though you just haven't had enough time to put into whatever it is.

Don't try and get the job, get them to try and get you to take the job. It's not about trying to show them why you qualify; it's about showing them why they qualify for you. You don't need them, they need you and that's why you want to apply for the job cause their company or whatever needs you.

[WavemasterRyx]

So out of Fallon.  Back in with mom for a week or two for one last round of applications... then down to Vegas, I guess.  Sigh.  Made a little progress with 59.  Had to rework it.  Incompetant Enclave just wasn't cutting it for me.  Sorry things are slow right now.

As I'll always say, sir, just take whatever time you need to take care of yourself, we'll still be here. I really hope things get better for you soon. *hugs very gently*

Be careful, you might get accused of violating canon again.
Because Enclave being totally incompetent is an integral part of the final FoE act.

[EDI voice] That was a joke. [/EDI voice]

Made me giggle a little, heh.

[O. Hinds]

Good luck, Somber!

[Icy Shake]

So out of Fallon.  Back in with mom for a week or two for one last round of applications... then down to Vegas, I guess.  Sigh.  Made a little progress with 59.  Had to rework it.  Incompetant Enclave just wasn't cutting it for me.  Sorry things are slow right now.

As I'll always say, sir, just take whatever time you need to take care of yourself, we'll still be here.  I really hope things get better for you soon.  *hugs very gently*

Agree with Ryx. I'm sorry to hear that you're looking, though; I had hoped that the note at the end of the last chapter meant you had already found something in Vegas.

[SilentCarto]

So out of Fallon. Back in with mom for a week or two for one last round of applications... then down to Vegas, I guess. Sigh. Made a little progress with 59. Had to rework it. Incompetant Enclave just wasn't cutting it for me. Sorry things are slow right now.

Good luck! And thanks for the update. Making the Enclave an (even more) credible threat is all good in my book.

Be careful, you might get accused of violating canon again.  
Because Enclave being totally incompetent is an integral part of the final FoE act.

[EDI voice] That was a joke. [/EDI voice]

*snicker* The EDI voice makes anything funny.

As someone who destroys it whenever I am getting intervewed the number one thing that people get wrong when interviewed is when a interviewer asks, "what is the thing you are weakest at?" don't answer honestly answer by going, "The thing that challenges me the most is" and then blow them out of the water with your self confidence by phrasing it in a way as though you just haven't had enough time to put into whatever it is.

Don't try and get the job, get them to try and get you to take the job. It's not about trying to show them why you qualify; it's about showing them why they qualify for you. You don't need them, they need you and that's why you want to apply for the job cause their company or whatever needs you.

This. I get the sense that a lot of interviewers get fed up with all the fakiness and appreciate being approached by someone who's open and honest with them. That doesn't mean you don't sell your skills -- you do -- but there are a lot of "tricks" people have promulgated in the past that don't make you sound desirable, they make you sound like a dishonest twit.

One thing I can suggest, though, is when you're presented with a hypothetical question -- probably more common in a technical field like mine, but still -- if you don't have a positive answer, it's always better to say "I don't know, but here's how I'd find out" rather than a guess or just "I don't know". It shows that you may not know everything, but you're resourceful enough to plan a way to proceed rather than implying you'd just throw your hands up in defeat.

But I really have no idea what a teaching interview would be like.  

[Caoimhe]

I hope Enclave chapter features a reference to Cloudchaser aka best pon with hottest hairdo.

[HillBilly-Drew]

i hope the best fer ya somber!! ur in my prayers brotha. take all the time u need. well all be waitin right here and supportin u 100%` . ;) take it easy brotha .

[Technowolf]

Somber, take your time.  In fact, since there's probably gonna be a while until the next chapter, I'm gonna do my best to fill that with some more tarot-talk


ch 1:
In tarot, the suit of spades becomes the suit of swords, corresponding to the element of air, and as such signifies freedom but also quick change. The Swords suit also traditionally represented the military, which implies strength, power and authority, but also responsibility, violence and suffering.

Connections: Well, Blackjack is in security, the closest thing to a military 99 knows.  One of the major themes of PH is responsibility.

During the card game with Rivets, one the cards Blackjack draws in the 4 of spades.


four of swords(spades) - The Effigy. Depicted as "The effigy of a knight in the attitude of prayer, at full length upon his tomb." The four of swords symbolizes avoidance. Setting problems to the side, (the swords on the wall), while one prays for deliverance. This card can also represent surrender, or in some cases, pacifism.  Vigilance, retreat, solitude, hermit's repose, exile, tomb and coffin. Reversed: wise administration, circumspection, economy, avarice, precaution, testament. It is mostly associated with a peaceful, still place. It reflects withdrawal, getting away and shifting the focus inwardly so that recovery and healing can take place.

Connections: 99 is nothing more than a tomb, with the population slowly dying, but the ponies inside have either surrendered to the seemingly inevitable or are avoiding the problem - "Don't think about it" - and are waiting for somepony else to fix the problem.

Blackjack's cutie mark is two cards: the queen and ace of spades.

queen of swords(spades) - The Widow, or necromancer. This card symbolizes independence, at its best. Power, intelligence, tactical thinking. The ability to streamline a problem, and find the solution without fuss. At worst, The Queen of Swords can represent isolation, depression and cruelty.  In Rider-Waite symbolism, she is extending her hand, perhaps to reach for another; but she also holds her sword firmly before her, perhaps as a warning, a self-protection or a test for another. Her crown is made up of butterflies, showing the freedom of her thought and her active intellect. Note the difference between the pristine white clouds, reflecting her unusual clarity of thought, and the darker ones showing up on the right bottom corner, which may reflect on her sorrows. Compare with other sword court cards, where the clouds are mostly tarnished. The hand in front signifies putting thoughts into action. All the sword cards represent the mind and the element of air all the skyscapes will indicate the "emotion" of the card. This one with clouds low on the horizon mean new ideas or a new enterprise.

connections: Blackjack has a history of going through with sometimes amazingly simple plans, whether or not these are the best ones, but she's also prone to depression and her "Reaper" mode shows she can be unusually cruel when fighting without restraint.  Also, the queen of spades in Equestrian decks has Princess Luna's picture (Queen of spades; Princess Luna, smiling up at me. - ch.36), perhaps symbolizing Blackjack's connection to the princess and to Hoofington.  This also means that Blackjack has a picture of Princess Luna on her flank.



ace of swords(spades) - The Reaver. Indicates decisive ability. Cutting through confusion. Taking a radical decision or standpoint. The ability to see through deception, and expose it.

Connections: none in the first few chapters, but the majority of Blackjack's questing is done to expose what Goldenblood and the Ministries did.  She's also good at seeing through the lies that most of the leaders she meets tell themselves - most common one being "It was the only way!".

[Meleagridis]

During the card game with Rivets, one the cards Blackjack draws in the 4 of spades.


four of swords(spades) - The Effigy. Depicted as "The effigy of a knight in the attitude of prayer, at full length upon his tomb." The four of swords symbolizes avoidance. Setting problems to the side, (the swords on the wall), while one prays for deliverance. This card can also represent surrender, or in some cases, pacifism.  Vigilance, retreat, solitude, hermit's repose, exile, tomb and coffin. Reversed: wise administration, circumspection, economy, avarice, precaution, testament. It is mostly associated with a peaceful, still place. It reflects withdrawal, getting away and shifting the focus inwardly so that recovery and healing can take place.

Holy crap, was this actually planned in advance? In one card we have not only a defining philosophy she had to abandon and now fight, the advent of one of BJ's greatest psychological weaknesses, as well as the recovery she avoided (which ended in what may be her most grievous small-scale fuck-up).

The buttmark analysis just makes things even more confusing. On a grander scale, it's clear that she's going to decide Horizons and basically become, even if only for a moment, the ultimate authority on a great many things. But is this what her talent is? A shining moment of unparalleled gravity with far-reaching expectations? Dangit, we're missing vital information from the buttmark story.

[Technowolf]

During the card game with Rivets, one the cards Blackjack draws in the 4 of spades.


four of swords(spades) - The Effigy. Depicted as "The effigy of a knight in the attitude of prayer, at full length upon his tomb." The four of swords symbolizes avoidance. Setting problems to the side, (the swords on the wall), while one prays for deliverance. This card can also represent surrender, or in some cases, pacifism.  Vigilance, retreat, solitude, hermit's repose, exile, tomb and coffin. Reversed: wise administration, circumspection, economy, avarice, precaution, testament. It is mostly associated with a peaceful, still place. It reflects withdrawal, getting away and shifting the focus inwardly so that recovery and healing can take place.

Holy crap, was this actually planned in advance? In one card we have not only a defining philosophy she had to abandon and now fight, the advent of one of BJ's greatest psychological weaknesses, as well as the recovery she avoided (which ended in what may be her most grievous small-scale fuck-up).

Actually, this is from the revised chapter 1.  I don't think its in the original version.

[Meleagridis]

Actually, this is from the revised chapter 1.  I don't think its in the original version.

If that's true, then it's actually kind of comforting. While I'm certain Somber would use his powers for good, having an author that's practically psychic would be a little unnerving.

[Moodyman90]

Is it bad that all I got from that was "SYMBOLISM!"

I mean, it's mind blowing, really awesome on how well it's done, and major props to Somber, but I've seen too many of Film Brain's reviews where he yells that out.

It also just shows how little I know of stuff like this.

[Icy Shake]

Is it bad that all I got from that was "SYMBOLISM!"

I mean, it's mind blowing, really awesome on how well it's done, and major props to Somber, but I've seen too many of Film Brain's reviews where he yells that out.

It also just shows how little I know of stuff like this.

Well, it's fair to recall that, but by my recollection he tends to use it with symbolism that shines like a lighthouse and falls like a sledgehammer. Especially when it's symbolism for a theme that's not really supported in the remainder of the film.

Anyway, chapter nineteen. A thing that happened (actually, a bunch—but that really shitty thing at the end just leaves you feeling awful).

Chapter 19 Running thoughts:

Chapter 19 edits:

[O. Hinds]

Is it bad that all I got from that was "SYMBOLISM!"

I mean, it's mind blowing, really awesome on how well it's done, and major props to Somber, but I've seen too many of Film Brain's reviews where he yells that out.

It also just shows how little I know of stuff like this.

Well, it's fair to recall that, but by my recollection he tends to use it with symbolism that shines like a lighthouse and falls like a sledgehammer. Especially when it's symbolism for a theme that's not really supported in the remainder of the film.

Anyway, chapter nineteen. A thing that happened (actually, a bunch—but that really shitty thing at the end just leaves you feeling awful).

Chapter 19 Running thoughts:

Chapter 19 edits:

Ah, thank you very much as always.

"A young light blue unicorn in thick glasses and braces grinned beside a far younger looking Twilight Sparkle and Cheerilee.

Maybe it's just me, but this reads like TS and Cheerilee look younger than the blue unicorn, not younger than BJ's used to seeing them. Might be a clarity vs. brevity and simplicity trade-off, though."
Hm… Yes, I see your points.  On the one hand, it would be good to clarify it; on the other, the current version works, and I can't think of any clearer way that isn't a lot more clunky.

[SilentCarto]

Is it bad that all I got from that was "SYMBOLISM!"

I mean, it's mind blowing, really awesome on how well it's done, and major props to Somber, but I've seen too many of Film Brain's reviews where he yells that out.

It also just shows how little I know of stuff like this.

Well... the tarot is such that you can pretty much make any card apply to any situation. It's kinda the nature of divination, right?

[Somber]

So... I'm curious. Why do folks think the Enclave got curb stomped so badly after Maripony? I know a few military folks who have read the ending and they just shake their heads. I mean, once their communications were compromised, they should have fallen back to courier.

I'm leaning towards a failure in leadership... neoptism and 'ruling dynasties' associated with the military apparatus, combined with decades of facing meager opponents, lulled the Enclave into a false sense of security. When maripony went off, Littlepip stomped an ant hill with some very important ants... like the head of their military. There should have been a strict chain of command, but when offal meets rotating blades then commands break down and missing creep sets in.

In short, the Operation Cauterize was hit by one massive Charlie Foxtrot they'd never dealt with before.

Thoughts?

[Guest]

@Somber
I like that explanation pretty well (mind you, I'm not a military guru). Combine that with aging equipment, a low expectation of resistance, and some nasty surprises due to intelligence failures (Spike, for instance - they almost certainly viewed as too dangerous to deal with, or they'd have driven him off/killed him long ago, you'd think), so, yeah. It's not like they did THAT poorly, of course.

[SilentCarto]

So... I'm curious. Why do folks think the Enclave got curb stomped so badly after Maripony?

I don't quite understand the courier comment. I assume when you mention their communications being compromised you're referring to someone setting off the alarm in the MAw Hub? That's why they destroyed Canterlot and suborned the MASEBS. We don't really have them getting severely compromised on a strategic level -- operational, maybe, when Pip starts tapping into their communications, but I don't know if they ever really knew they'd been compromised in that way.

As for their failure to do... everything, I think it's because they needed their entire navy to suppress the populace, but they needed their entire navy to find Dashites, but they needed their entire navy to protect the SPP towers. Too many jobs for too few ships, and it spread them too thin to react with enough force against any one threat. They could have gotten away with Cauterize all by itself if they could have blitzkrieged the way they obviously wanted to and got back home in time for tea, but between Homage overriding their control of the airwaves, soldiers who weren't on board with slaughtering civilians wholesale, and Littlepip stirring up trouble, they didn't have the overwhelming intel and firepower advantage they thought they did.

First, they utterly underestimated the surface. Their scanty scouting missions probably saw most folks using pipe rifles and low-caliber pistols, and they assumed that was all the weaponry the surface had. But there are little pockets of high-powered weaponry available all over the Wasteland, even if people are hesitant to use them since they might have a few dozen shots and that's it. But when power-armored thugs descended from the sky, everyone busted out the scavenged plasma rifles and spark grenades (and the occasional Alien Blaster) they'd been hoarding for a special occasion, and more importantly, the Steel Rangers came out of their bunkers and the Black Talons sided with the surface, and suddenly it wasn't such a one-sided fight after all. And that's not even counting the "Holy WTF" factor of Pip's group -- anti-machine rifles, sonic radbooms, zebra stealth cloaks, a frickin' DRAGON, a MEGASPELL... they had assumed that simply sitting on a cloud would make Neighvarro unassailable, and by the time they realized that Pip had the resources to pull it off, it was already over.

Second, they had been making overtures to the Goddess, so Harbinger was obviously aware that they were stretched thin on this whole Cauterize thing. He clearly wanted to get the alicorns on his side as near-invincible bounty hunters to track down these individuals and confirm the kills. When Maripony blew up, as you note, it not only torpedoed that plan, but removed the Enclave's ability to come up with an alternate plan. I get the feeling that this was Harbinger's pet project, and the rest of the council was far more contemptuous of the surface's capabilities. So with his death, they gave Autumn Leaf the go-ahead. He was a Colonel -- a rank normally associated with brigade/regiment-level command. In other words, he was trained for tactical command, not strategic. And so he made do with what he had, which was really the wrong tool for the job. You can't use naval bombardment to get one pony. It's incredibly inefficient, and it stirred up that whole "ants with plasma rifles" issue.

[Technowolf]

So... I'm curious. Why do folks think the Enclave got curb stomped so badly after Maripony? I know a few military folks who have read the ending and they just shake their heads. I mean, once their communications were compromised, they should have fallen back to courier.

I'm leaning towards a failure in leadership... neoptism and 'ruling dynasties' associated with the military apparatus, combined with decades of facing meager opponents, lulled the Enclave into a false sense of security. When maripony went off, Littlepip stomped an ant hill with some very important ants... like the head of their military. There should have been a strict chain of command, but when offal meets rotating blades then commands break down and missing creep sets in.

In short, the Operation Cauterize was hit by one massive Charlie Foxtrot they'd never dealt with before.

Thoughts?

Well, let me compare Operation Cauterize with another fictional invasion: the Clan Invasion from the BattleTech universe.  Much like the Enclave, the Clans (the invaders) had advanced technology, warships, and infantry with advanced capabilities, but here's how they failed big time.

1) All of their intel on the Inner Sphere (the place they were invading) had come from an advanced scouting party that went rogue nearly 25 years before the invasion started, leading them to completely underestimate the militaries of the Inner Sphere.  The Enclaves intel is based on the reports of small scientific or scouting parties, and some of those reports may have been classified or redacted.

2) The first organized resistance the Clans encountered was from bandits and pirates wielding very low-tech equipment.  The second resistance they encounter was from the armies stationed to defend against said low-tech pirates, so they weren't much better armed or trained (it's mentioned in universe that many military academy graduates are posted out in the boonies to face pirates so if they screw up there's less chance of dying).  These encounters completely informed their entire view of the state of Inner Sphere militaries.  Likewise, the Enclaves first resistance was probably small groups of bandits, raiders, and hunting parties using small, low-power, low-tech weapons, leading the Enclave to the same conclusions.

3) The Clans were not prepared for the Inner Sphere to band together once they knew what was really going on.  Likewise, the Enclave are probably completely surprised at the level of organization of some of the surfacer groups - Red Eye, the Steel Rangers, Applejack's Rangers, Junction Town, etc. - or for the fact that they're invasion actually forces some of the groups to band together for greater protections.

4) The Clans were ill-prepared for some of the tactics of the Inner Sphere.  Likewise, the Enclave probably doesn't have much experience with guerrilla troops using hit-and-fade tactics, sniper teams targeting commanders, or even homesteaders planting homemade explosives among the supplies the Enclave troops "requisitioned".

5) Clan doctrine favored fast, small-scale battles, not the long, large-scale battles between multiple regiments that most Inner Sphere soldiers were trained for.  Thus, this left some Clan warriors either ill-prepared or under-supplied for these battles.  I'm guessing the Enclave also expects short engagements, both due to superior firepower but also a shortage of supplies in the clouds.  Thus, the longer the battle ( cf. Stable 101, Fillydelphia, probably Hoofington) the morale of the troops will probably tank as not only were they not trained for this, but they may also be running low on supplies.

So, that's my thoughts.

[Tytan]

So... I'm curious. Why do folks think the Enclave got curb stomped so badly after Maripony? I know a few military folks who have read the ending and they just shake their heads. I mean, once their communications were compromised, they should have fallen back to courier.

I'm leaning towards a failure in leadership... neoptism and 'ruling dynasties' associated with the military apparatus, combined with decades of facing meager opponents, lulled the Enclave into a false sense of security. When maripony went off, Littlepip stomped an ant hill with some very important ants... like the head of their military. There should have been a strict chain of command, but when offal meets rotating blades then commands break down and missing creep sets in.

In short, the Operation Cauterize was hit by one massive Charlie Foxtrot they'd never dealt with before.

Thoughts?

Personally, I was under the impression that the Enclave was so thoroughly curb stomped for the same reasons the Nazis were so thoroughly curb stomped. Both parties had far superior weapons/vehicles, but both parties lacked the materials to keep it all going. IIRC Calamity said something about them having stripped the tops of all the mountains bare for whatever materials they could scrounge, and I didn't get the impression that they got a lot of trade from the surface. So if something was broken, like a stratocarrier, it was probably gonna stay broken.

[Evilgidgit]

Both the Enclave and the Nazis may have been curpstomped, but they both have another thing in common: They caused/left a lot of damage.

[thatguyvex]

So... I'm curious. Why do folks think the Enclave got curb stomped so badly after Maripony? I know a few military folks who have read the ending and they just shake their heads. I mean, once their communications were compromised, they should have fallen back to courier.

I'm leaning towards a failure in leadership... neoptism and 'ruling dynasties' associated with the military apparatus, combined with decades of facing meager opponents, lulled the Enclave into a false sense of security. When maripony went off, Littlepip stomped an ant hill with some very important ants... like the head of their military. There should have been a strict chain of command, but when offal meets rotating blades then commands break down and missing creep sets in.

In short, the Operation Cauterize was hit by one massive Charlie Foxtrot they'd never dealt with before.

Thoughts?

Another major factor for why the Enclave loses so hard during Cauterize, and the loss of leadership is part of this; the Enclave was getting morally split down the middle by the sudden invasion. For a lot of the pegasi this was their first time getting exposure to the surface and seeing the state of the ponies on the ground. For many of them this would also mark the first time they'd be in combat, or receive orders to fire upon unarmed or otherwise clear non-combatants. 


From what I recall of the final chapters there were a fair number of Enclave who basically went turncoat during the battles and either refused to engage or even turned on those Enclave who did, like at Friendship City. Basically during a time when strong leadership and a unified front would've been a must, the Enclave was cracking down the middle like a Kit-Kat bar.

[Moodyman90]

Yeah I can't add much else to what was already said.

Superior but limited equipment, spread themselves too thin across the waste thinking they'd just be able to mow over everything in their path, the lack of competent commanders. I'm sure there was some but it seems those in command where glory hounds who'd ignore their losses to get a win.

Plus as stated, the use of a dragon, sonic radboom, a megaspell that brought down the wrath of the sun, the brotherhood of steel setting aside their civil war to fight together, the Black Talons throwing their lot in with the surface, the royal guard Canterlot ghoul and the dragon turned mouse that could spew out Pink Cloud non-stop.


And I guess they just expected the surface to just roll over and accept their rule. You know, those on the ground accepting with open arms the leadership of the group that left them to rot for 200 years without proper sunlight. And shit like destroying Friendship City just to kill a single Dashite just because he was a Dashite sure didn't help anybody go "Hey yeah, let's have them take over."

[Icy Shake]

Likewise, I can't add too much, but I do think I can contribute a little on the tactical/operational and the strategic sides.
Starting with operational: the Wonderbolts should have been active sooner--you don't need people who can perform rainbooms to make plans of how to protect against hyper-irradiated ghouls who could do them. On the same note, the way you deal with Radar is assassination, not blowing the shit out of a city. Hell, they had willing organized crime there to take care of it, or they could send in a spy or something.
Likewise, what was the point of trying to subdue the whole Wasteland all at once? Why attack New Appleoosa, for instance? Because it traded with your enemy? Look, they're pegasi; they don't need to take out the outlying positions first. It would make far more sense to have a full-on surprise attack against the heart of the enemy as the first move. That doesn't give the target time to pull forces back to reinforce core positions, and following victory at the center, the outlying forces may well surrender, turn against each other, or just plain go home.
So, yeah, a poorly defined mission, a complete inability to exploit their inherent advantage in mobility, a lack of patience, and a shortage of hero units all played roles. (And it's worth noting that absent the poorly defined mission, i.e. attacking a bunch of little towns in the sticks that had a grand total of zero strategic value, the Wonderbolts would have been much more active, materiel would have been freed up (and not destroyed), morale would have been better, and neither rainboom would have happened, also limiting the usefulness of Celestia One. Of course, some of those couldn't have been foreseen, but the rest were easily enough to justify a different strategy.)
Oh, and doing that would do less to seriously undermine any propaganda that they were there to free/save the Wasteland, should they decide after the real threats were taken care of to take over.

So, yeah, here's what I think happened: the Enclave military isn't actually headed by idiots (just very rigid ponies--you'll see why soon), and they had a decent plan made up. But Equestria doesn't have page numbers, and a clerk dropped the plans and some of the pages got mixed up after the General Staff approved them and they were on the way to unit commanders, so the cleanup operations became scheduled after the strategically important battles.
I still can't explain the rationale for sending what amounts to at least a destroyer squadron to kill or capture a guy when they already had contact with a group right there which was already carrying out assassinations.

[Technowolf]

I still can't explain the rationale for sending what amounts to at least a destroyer squadron to kill or capture a guy when they already had contact with a group right there which was already carrying out assassinations.

I think it's because the Enclave itself doesn't really do cloak-and-dagger stuff well.  There are only two groups in the Enclave we know of who could lead that kind of operation: the Wonderbolts, who were more of a hunter-killer group and not very good at sneaking, and Enclave Intelligence, based out of Thunderhead, who most likely would rather side with the surfacers than with Neghvarro at this point.

[Icy Shake]

Mayor Black Seas moved over to the terminal. “Just after she called us, Raspberry Tart made another call…” She pressed a button. An unfamiliar stallion’s voice sounded through the speaker.
“Hello? Who is this?”
“Well hello to you too, darling,” Raspberry Tart’s voice slithered. “We’re all set for your visit. I’ve cleared the way. When your boys get here, the doors will be open and waiting for them. The…
package… they’re looking for doesn’t suspect a thing. But we have had one small setback…”
“Those aren’t words I like,” the stallion informed her coolly. “You shouldn’t be telling me words I don’t like.”
“Mayor Black Seas is still going to be a problem,” Raspberry Tart whined. The mayor and the security chief exchanged glances as they listened.
I could hear a heavy sigh through the speaker. “The mayor of that rusty monument you call a city was your responsibility. We’re more than ready and capable of doing things the hard way if we meet any resistance.”
“O-of course,” Raspberry Tart said, sounding a little worried now.
The stallion neighed. “Personally, I would prefer the hard way. Tends not to leave loose ends.”
“No, that won’t be necessary, darling. How long until we can expect your arrival?”
There was a snort from the unidentified stallion. “Our Raptors are eighty minutes out. Should give you plenty of time to fix your little problem. Or flee the city.”

This is 100% choosing the wrong target: they were already on board with cloak-and-dagger work as prep for the pickup. There is no reason the deal couldn't have been for Tart to snatch Radar and deliver him directly.
*Though this is added evidence of incompetent field commanders (with a complete lack of imagination, to boot).

[Moodyman90]

Sounds more like they where grudgingly going with the cloak and dagger idea and more than willing to just level everything sight. Despite being written before season 3 it's like those in charge are like Lighting Dust.

[Sponsored content]