Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

[OneMoreDaySK]

@Stringtheory
Final battle will have everyone you've seen so far that's still alive show up and fight.
Then everyone turns into tang radaway. Gainax Ending.

[Somber]

I'm fine. Just trying to deal with stupid head and get some progress on 55. I don't like it... there's lots of stuff to get done but I down want to split it if I don't have to.

Also, thanks to everyone who donated. If it wasn't for you, I probably would be overdrawn right now. Hope to get the story out soon.

[Mister Nikel]

Glad you are better. Don't force yourself though. Relax and have some fun or something. No need to work all the time.

[SilentCarto]

Actually armor only has a 90% chance to stop the first bullet. That drops to 40% for a second bullet, 20%, 5%, 0%. I believe those are the numbers, but I can't remember exactly what it was. And remember, she had Dragon Killer rounds.

That's only the case for ceramic strike plates. Metal armor and ballistic mesh like kevlar tends to be all-or-nothing -- it can either stop rounds from a particular gun, or it can't. At least, until the kevlar is sufficiently shredded that bullets can start finding weakened spots, but if you're still getting shot at by that point, you have other problems.

The Hague Convention of 1899 prohibits projectiles which flatten or expand easily in the body (or those which release asphyxiating or deleterious gases) but I don't believe any of them prohibit rounds designed to tumble. And if they did, any 5.7mm weapon like the P90 would be a war crime.

You're correct. I was misinformed. The actual case is that the Hague Convention of 1907 just vaguely prohibits "arms, projectiles, or material calculated to cause unnecessary suffering." (Sometimes rendered as "superfluous injury.") As a result, most signatory countries won't admit to deliberately designing bullets that tumble, but hey, if they happen to be dynamically unstable in a dense medium...

If I had to guess, I'd say dragonslayer rounds are probably HEAT (HEAD, I guess) or HESH. HEIAP is a possibility, but it's really designed for vehicles (and things that aren't immune to fire); it would be painful for a dragon but nowhere near lethal because it would barely get through their skin. DSAP would definitely penetrate, and might score a kill in the brain, but the hole is just too small to have any real stopping power.

I think you're getting a little confused. The talk about types of AP technologies was for the benefit of the scene where Psalm lists off the kinds of ammo her rifle can shoot and Somber accidentally included anachronistic "Armor Piercing" ammo. I'm not even going to speculate about Dragonkiller rounds, since they're almost certainly enchanted in some way. I'd think of them as the unicorn equivalent of match-grade hand-loads -- extremely expensive and time-consuming to produce, and therefore made only in limited quantities.

After all, needing to put a round into a brain through dragonhide and dragon bone is a pretty uncommon circumstance.

[Sindri]

I still don't think it's anachronistic; the zebras developed armor piercing rounds which could penetrate the helmet of power armor, though not as well as the AM rifle, a few months after that. The ponies have all manner of fun specialized ammunition, in very limited quantities, and nothing so far indicates a time frame on their development.

Anyway, Match loads are significantly more accurate, and less likely to jam in the gun, but they don't actually do more damage or penetrate further. They're just finely crafted bullets instead of mass-produced crap. A high level sniper like Psalm would likely use them as her standard rounds, but a Dragonslayer bullet would almost certainly be something special even if it was just what we'd call standard armor piercing.

[Kippershy]

Just been shown this.

Spoiler:

[Icy Shake]

I saw it earlier, and it got me thinking: did Fallout: Equestria have hookers? It seems like they'd fit the setting, but I can't remember any.

[Kippershy]

I saw it earlier, and it got me thinking: did Fallout: Equestria have hookers? It seems like they'd fit the setting, but I can't remember any.

I don't ever remember any scenes in the original where Littlepip had ever come across any.
I mean, it's likely there would have been some in Friendship City, however, never did she actually take note of any.

[CD]

Fillydelphia under control of Red Eye had slaves who were commonly raped by guards and other slaves. Might be some of them offered sex in exchange for protection, somewhat like prison gangs.

[Snipehamster]

Given a recent string of IRC conversations culminating in this one, it's become apparent that my opinions on PH and approach to editing have become a manifest threat to Somber's emotional and physical well-being.

For this reason I cannot in good conscience continue to provide honest feedback on PH.

My sincere apologies, and thanks, to all of you.

Edit: Linked the deal breaker.

[Snipehamster]

Given a recent string of IRC conversations, it's become apparent that my opinions on PH and approach to editing have become a manifest threat to Somber's emotional and physical well-being.

For this reason I cannot in good conscience continue to provide honest feedback on PH.

My sincere apologies, and thanks, to all of you.

This confuses me.
Sure, you've stated far more negatives than positives in your posted feedback for Project Horizons, but I figured you'd said most of this stuff to Somber before.

...I mean, I honestly have no clue how the editing process works between you four. Hinds seems to relay that most of what he does is correct spelling and grammar issues, as well as address any continuity or unclear sections with Somber's counsel, but I wasn't under the impression three editors were needed for that, particularly given how long your editing sessions take. Were the things you stated on here really things Somber'd never previously heard from you? Or is it just because you were stating them publicly?

...and does this mean you are no longer comfortable posting on here at all?

Some, though not all, of the criticisms posted here were addressed to Somber in the past, but I never received a response to the posts I made here. This is the result of a string of IRC conversations (in which I contacted Somber to voice concerns and suggestions), and in short I simply don't feel comfortable working with him any more. This is for both my sake and his.

I don't mind posting here (assuming I'm still welcome), but I won't be giving much, if any, feedback on new chapter releases for PH.

[O. Hinds]

Oh dear. Um. I'm not really sure what to do about this...

[Snipehamster]

You're certainly still welcome, in my book. I just hope this isn't too harsh on the other editors' work, and/or Somber finds someone new he can trust to help with the job.

Your editing sessions have gone as long as eight hours, right? Seems to me like losing even one person could make that workload pretty insurmountable to take for three active college students.
(...actually, I can't remember if you all are in school, just that Hinds is and you're all around the same age, so... eh, whatever)

Oh, the editing sessions have been longer than that. My intention is not to make things harder for anyone, but I'm not going to commit to something if doing so risks driving someone to a public emotional breakdown and insinuations of suicide. Not getting involved with that, I'm afraid.

(As far as I know) Somber and I work full time. Hinds and Bro are students.

[Snipehamster]

I just want to clarify, though, that if I seemed to imply I thought your intention was to make things harder for anyone, I certainly didn't mean to.

Oh no, you didn't imply that at all.

As for what happens going forwards, I'll sleep on it.

[Kippershy]

Given a recent string of IRC conversations, it's become apparent that my opinions on PH and approach to editing have become a manifest threat to Somber's emotional and physical well-being.

For this reason I cannot in good conscience continue to provide honest feedback on PH.

My sincere apologies, and thanks, to all of you.

This confuses me.
Sure, you've stated far more negatives than positives in your posted feedback for Project Horizons, but I figured you'd said most of this stuff to Somber before.

...I mean, I honestly have no clue how the editing process works between you four. Hinds seems to relay that most of what he does is correct spelling and grammar issues, as well as address any continuity or unclear sections with Somber's counsel, but I wasn't under the impression three editors were needed for that, particularly given how long your editing sessions take. Were the things you stated on here really things Somber'd never previously heard from you? Or is it just because you were stating them publicly?

...and does this mean you are no longer comfortable posting on here at all?

Some, though not all, of the criticisms posted here were addressed to Somber in the past, but I never received a response to the posts I made here. This is the result of a string of IRC conversations (in which I contacted Somber to voice concerns and suggestions), and in short I simply don't feel comfortable working with him any more. This is for both my sake and his.

I don't mind posting here (assuming I'm still welcome), but I won't be giving much, if any, feedback on new chapter releases for PH.

Dude, somehow missed all this until I was pointed to it by /mlp/ of all places.
Of course you're still welcome here, you always will be. Honest criticism that doesn't simply try to attack Somber but rather give actual thought out and well made arguments either for or against something is always promoted, even if some would disagree with you.

We can either pretend that Somber is perfect and always agree that everything he ever does is perfect and pretend there's never anything that we don't find to be an issue or we can point out flaws and issues as we see them and try to guide Somber with those constructive, well thought out points that you especially have been capable of providing.

As a writer, he needs those. Even if it does upset him to know there's people who disagree with something he firmly believes in, if he truly wants to do the best that he can then he's going to need people like you who can articulate their opinions in constructive ways.



I for one would never tell you that you aren't allowed to stick around just because you don't see sunshine and rainbows with everything. If anyone does tell you that you're not allowed to stick around and keep on commenting, then they can go fuck themselves with a yard pole because it's not helpful to deny someone creative, constructive criticism.

[Kippershy]

Protip: That's not Somber

Of course I can't tell you with 100% certainty that it isn't, but I'm 95% sure of it.
Somber impersonators happen all the time. Hell, I'VE posted as Somber once or twice when and the next thing I knew we were all doing it.
Funny as fuck to see four different Sombers.

Anyway, yeah. I can put money down on it not being him.

[tylertoon2]

http://boards.4chan.org/mlp/res/8874346#p8900191

Someone needs to surreptitiously block Somber's ability to access 4chan.
Maybe have it redirect to icanhascheezburger or something.

Yeah, it is doing him no good to be on there.

Also I hate his term clocking out. It makes it sound so casual, when in fact his describing the heinous act of ending a talented life full of drive and potential, it's not clocking out. It's killing yourself, destroying your own consciousness and utterly obliterating your ability to interact or perceive. Nothing is worse than that, beyond taking the life of another at least in my book. It's like ordering a genocide and labeling it a "Miscommunication".

Sorry to be harsh. Hang in there Somber. You've been through worse, I know you have.

Oh and by the way, who donated the most? I want to know so I can get them something later.

Edit: I think my post still applies either way so I'll leave it be.

[Kippershy]

Yeah, the more I look at it the more certain I am it isn't him.
Last time he posted there was a unique situation and the second I began reading his post I got this horrible gut feeling and simply knew it was him.

This time "his" writing isn't his. There's something missing from it.
Whoever wrote it has seen him get like this before, for certain. However, it's not Somber.

Being able to tell it isn't him is partially because being around there and having seen the imitations he's had against him, the other part is like I say, there's something different about that post to his usual way of things.

[tylertoon2]

Yeah, the more I look at it the more certain I am it isn't him.
Last time he posted there was a unique situation and the second I began reading his post I got this horrible gut feeling and simply knew it was him.

This time "his" writing isn't his. There's something missing from it.
Whoever wrote it has seen him get like this before, for certain. However, it's not Somber.

Being able to tell it isn't him is partially because being around there and having seen the imitations he's had against him, the other part is like I say, there's something different about that post to his usual way of things.

[Stringtheory]

I interrupt this serious discussion for this dose of cute:

(I swear, we need a non-proliferation treaty on WMHAs (Weapons of Mass Heart Attack), because these things if deployed correctly could wipe out vast regions of the internet from a single viewing)

[Derpmind]

Deleted.

[Kippershy]

Oh lookie, Somber made a post. This time I know it's the actual Somber, writing style fits and although my gut isn't freaking out like before it just... I know, you know?

Anyway, I was right.

[Kippershy]

Oh, it happens often enough. I just like to take pride in it is all. hah.

[Somber]

Please leave Snipehamster alone. He was right in his criticisms and I wish I could have accommodated him... but I couldn't.

[Kippershy]

I don't think anyone has actually said anything against him, though I could be wrong.
You should ignore me right now though, I'm on a distinct lack of sleep and overworking my brain as I've been writing.

...I need more coffee.

Anyway, try not to get yourself worked up (if you are).
It really ain't worth the worry.

[Caoimhe]

Jesus fuck, some of those comments there on 4chan.

Also Snipe, it's kind of a dick move to repost chatlogs that only go out to a few people and disappear into the void especially without the permission of the person on the other end you're talking about.

[Guest]

I think Snipe's hurting, too, guys. Cao, normally I'd agree with you on chatlogs and my initial thoughts ran similarly, but I think he's trying to deal with the situation he is currently in and is trying to defend his feelings. Not saying it was the best move, but I think it's understandable.

@Kipper
More coffee is always the answer. Until you have a heart attack and/or your kidneys explode, coffee is the answer. Doctors people who may or may not be medical professionals recommend drinking coffee before taking a short nap, so that when you wake up, your body has just metabolized the delicious, delicious chemicals and you are ready to go.

[Guest]

Won't the real Slim Somber, please stand up? I am Sombericus! I'm Sombatman. Who is Keysomber Soze?

Kay, that's all I got. Seriously, though, impersonating people often ends poorly.

[Admiral Stoic Rum]

sigh, it sucks this anonymous reality we live in. It's not always the person we expect it to be when we expect it. All I can say is there is just waaaay too much drama for someone's slight of hand. As offensive as it is, I suggest trying it on 4chan just to have the experience.

[Icy Shake]

Please leave Snipehamster alone. He was right in his criticisms and I wish I could have accommodated him... but I couldn't.

There are things that would make the story better in retrospect. This is true.
But, as he said in the chatlog, he was not interested in having the entire fic rewritten. It would clearly not be possible to remove all mention of Lacunae and the Goddess right now. Maybe, following the fic's finishing, they could be cut out as part of some "Past Sins-esque edits". I don't recall anything Snipe said addressing where the fic should go now, just in where it's been.
Unless he said something entirely different to you when it was just the two of you and stated that editing the fic to remove such massive elements should take precedence over finishing the fic (after all, just changing the first chapter called for two weeks of edits, as you said), I personally think he could be accommodated in time if you really agreed with the direction he thought the fic should take.

Warning: I may well have no idea what I'm talking about in the following, and do not mean to offend anyone involved. I've tried to write it that way, but apologize if I have not succeeded, and hope I haven't been too presumptuous.

My understanding of the differences of opinion, such as they are, is that Somber and Snipehamster might be looking at the story from different perspectives on what the basic product (not just the details, but the overall structure) should be like.

The more I think of it, the more I agree with Caiomhe that PH feels more like an ongoing serial than a traditional novel; I don't now if that's what Somber has been shooting for, but if it is then paring it down to the essentials (e.g. removing Lacunae and the Goddess as core players) to keep things flowing briskly isn't necessarily adding value. I like this style: I enjoy the size of the world; the feeling of immersion in the world I get when reading; and that each chapter, and each episode in each chapter, has something to add, even if it's not moving the core story, or focusing entirely on the core characters.

My impression is that Snipehamster, were he writing the story, would take less time to wander around the world, and that his creation would be tighter, with greater focus on core elements, and a faster pace. And that would be fine, too, but probably a different product—in a different medium, so to speak—for a different audience than Somber's.

Here's where it might get bad; please understand I'm doing my best from a point of ignorance of both process and motive:

TL;DR version: My perception is that Somber is writing Fallout: Equestria—Project Horizons: The TV Show (The Novel), while if Snipehamster were writing it, he would be writing Fallout: Equestria—Project Horizons: The Movie (The Novel). And both, I think, would be great (I'd read the latter, I'm sure, after the conclusion of the former—but would want the former to still exist, as I'd think of the two as complements, not substitutes), but evaluating one based on the conventions of the other is not ideal.

None of this, of course, is to say that Snipehamster's opinions have no application to Somber's work, as Somber has made it clear that he values his input; nor do I think that Project Horizons, as the serial-style piece I perceive it to be, is without flaws: in some respects, I agree with (at least portions of some of) Snipehamster's criticisms, even in that context.

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