Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

[Overthepacific]

I still keep thinking about that what-if scenario presented for Go Fish in chapter 43...

Which one?

[Overthepacific]

He did.

Why did he stop? that seemed to be pretty interesting.

*no answer*

Is it because I wanted to fight you tenderly?

[Retl]

I still keep thinking about that what-if scenario presented for Go Fish in chapter 43...

Which one?

All of the wasteland being an escapist construct for Go Fish to hide in to avoid dealing with all of the hurt her real life has been causing her leading up to her phychotic break. All of those lies Happyhorn Gardens, basically. If they were true, it'd be hyper-downer, but that little glimpse into what could be was fascinating to me.

[Moodyman90]

Like I said, I'd prefer if she still had some lingering effects from her phobia, would be more realistic, but I think she's simply gotten over her fear of machines.

Last I heard, one of the things that Somber's planning to include in the revisions is a bit of nervousness on her part about riding in Deus.

That's cool. Personally I didn't have much of a problem with it till others brought it up. I've always accepted that she got over her fear, the wanting her to be more nervous was a "now that I look back" sort of thing.

[Overthepacific]

I still keep thinking about that what-if scenario presented for Go Fish in chapter 43...

Which one?

All of the wasteland being an escapist construct for Go Fish to hide in to avoid dealing with all of the hurt her real life has been causing her leading up to her phychotic break. All of those lies Happyhorn Gardens, basically. If they were true, it'd be hyper-downer, but that little glimpse into what could be was fascinating to me.

I did find myself thinking "what if all of this is actually true?" at times during the chapter. It was certainly interesting, but I wouldve been very upset if that was the truth behind all of it. That wouldve been the cheapest cop out ever.

[Retl]

Stuff.

What stuff?

Clarifying stuff.

It was certainly interesting, but I wouldve been very upset if that was the truth behind all of it. That wouldve been the cheapest cop out ever.

That would be a horrible, horrible way to end the story. XD Many tables would be flipped.
Though if ran all the way to the obvious conclusion, it'd be a neat and somewhat chilling short. Though I figure splitting and diverging conclusions like that might not really be taken seriously by anyone.

[BrentOGara]

Quick note: this is rather 'late' in the discussion but it's something that really bugs me. This could be a reply to a third of the posts in this thread, OTP's post simply had the best straight line for me to build my argument on.

SNIP (detailed description of what the Legate 'should' have been)

If I could have it my way, thatd be it. But I cant.

Why not?

You all talk about canon like it's thermodynamics, written in stone, the way the universe simply is, but it's not.

Somber is a small grey mare that lives in David's head... and she's written the longest, most complex and deeply compelling MLP:FIM fic ever. But she's not in your head. If you want FO:E PH to be written differently, then do it. If you'd like to remove Lacunae, then do it. If you want the Legate to be more Frank Horrigan and less Marty Stu, then DO IT.

This is not real life, where you have to put up with sh*t like gravity and the Pauli Exclusion Principle... this is fiction... that means somebody makes the rules, and why can't that somebody be you? PH is not a singular event disconnected from the universe at large, and neither it is exclusionary. There is literally nothing stopping any one of you from opening PH in notepad and starting your own edit right this very minute.

Anyone of you can do it.

No one can stop you.

If you want PH to be written differently, then DO IT.

[Retl]

Anyone of you can do it.

No one can stop you.

If you want PH to be written differently, then DO IT.

In principle, I agree with this. It's nice to have options.

In reality, it might come off as pretentious or offensive to Somber. It's similar to doing a photoshop of an artist's work and then posting it around without much info about the how and why of it. People might see it, assume it's the artist's own handywork and potentially cause confusion for all involved.

[Overthepacific]

He did.

Why did he stop? that seemed to be pretty interesting.

I can't answer that, but I was once told the ask Security tumblr was being done by a friend of his.

...by the way, is anyone aware of any other ones for Blackjack beyond that? Back when I made that Blackjack/Sweetie Bot joke some guy posted on my deviantart that "It's been confirmed in askBlackjack tumblr. Blackjack's flank does *not* have a vibrate function."
I was only ever aware of the one ask security and askblackjack.tumblr.com has nothing to do with PH.

(I realize I could just ask the guy myself, but he posted it months ago)

I just checked into it. As far as I can tell, no, there isn't. There was one with pip and BJ in gmod, but it only had one post from like a year ago.

Its a shame, even the ask-security one hasn't updated in three months. Almost makes me want to make one myself. But I'd have to tear down blackjack back into something that she isn't anymore just to be happy with it. Plus Id have to start seriously drawing again, which I dont feel like making time for.

[Derpmind]

Ok, this is kinda getting ridiculous. Overthepacific has been saying for pages now that s/he feels like a bunch of stuff stopped working after ch.33, and no-one's said 'yes' or 'no' or anything else in direct response to that opinion. I do re-read some chapters here and there, but I haven't done a straight read-through in months so I really can't tell.

[Retl]

Ok, this is kinda getting ridiculous. Overthepacific has been saying for pages now that s/he feels like a bunch of stuff stopped working after ch.33, and no-one's said 'yes' or 'no' or anything else in direct response to that opinion.

Short: No.

Rambly: I have no flipping clue if the story stopped working after 33!

Simply put, I find my interest peaks first between Glory's introduction (ch4) and getting to know Scotch (chtwentysomething). The chapters inbetween I can never remember the events of without listening to them again. Then Yellow River and Happyhorn. Then right around 52 or whenever we return from Hightower, things strike me as memorable again.

I can't explain why. I don't attach particular feelings to chapter 33. I liked the bit of breather on 34. I don't feel like the story's fallen apart since then or anything, but there's something about that middle section that keeps flying over my head time and time again.

Yet even details of the chapters I like keep slipping away like so much sand. Yet I still think Chapter 9 works solid as a standalone story. Yet I still think the plot points are just fuel to the kart that all the characters form, and wouldn't really care if some of them just disappeared without explanation or turned into something completely out of place with no apologies or excuses given, because Sweet Celestia unless given an explanation for the why and how, people would spend months trying to figure out the grand meaning of the oddball out.

[Overthepacific]

Quick note: this is rather 'late' in the discussion but it's something that really bugs me. This could be a reply to a third of the posts in this thread, OTP's post simply had the best straight line for me to build my argument on.

SNIP (detailed description of what the Legate 'should' have been)

If I could have it my way, thatd be it. But I cant.

Why not?

You all talk about canon like it's thermodynamics, written in stone, the way the universe simply is, but it's not.

Somber is a small grey mare that lives in David's head... and she's written the longest, most complex and deeply compelling MLP:FIM fic ever. But she's not in your head. If you want FO:E PH to be written differently, then do it. If you'd like to remove Lacunae, then do it. If you want the Legate to be more Frank Horrigan and less Marty Stu, then DO IT.

This is not real life, where you have to put up with sh*t like gravity and the Pauli Exclusion Principle... this is fiction... that means somebody makes the rules, and why can't that somebody be you? PH is not a singular event disconnected from the universe at large, and neither it is exclusionary. There is literally nothing stopping any one of you from opening PH in notepad and starting your own edit right this very minute.

Anyone of you can do it.

No one can stop you.

If you want PH to be written differently, then DO IT.

That is disrespectful to somber, even ignoring the fact that I would be pretty much stealing from him.
Its his story, in the end, he has a final say in it, whether I like it or not. I bring all of these points and flaws against the story right now because I feel that it isn't the story it really could be, so somber might take that into consideration. I dont want to steal his story from him and make it into something that he doesn't want.

I write my own stories, I create my own universe for characters to play around in. I know how upset I would be if someone straight up stole my story and decided it wasn't even worth giving a chance to better itself. If they just rewrite my story that I worked so hard to create just because they dont like parts of it and decided to make it the way they want it, I would be devastated.

However, what I would want, is constructive criticism. You tell me what you think is wrong with my story, and ill appreciate you and really think about what you said and try to make the story a better piece overall, even if it requires some editing.

I don't know if somber is anything like me, but from my angle, this is the most disrespectful and disheartening things you could do to a story. I may not particularly like the direction it could be taking, but I have too much respect for Somber and Project Horizons to forsake the story before it's finished like that.

[Retl]

I don't know if somber is anything like me, but from my angle, this is the most disrespectful and disheartening things you could do to a story.

I feel it could be pretty disrespectful, especially if the person doing it never asked the original author if it's OK to do a divergent take. Yet it's a clear sign that something went right that someone is invested enough in the original author's work to actually put in the effort to make an alternate version to begin with. Noone sinks that kind of effort into something they don't care about. It'd be about as flattering as it could be irksome.

But I guess purpose matters to. If they took the story for the sole purpose of 1uping it, yeah, that'd be pretty rude. If it were done because there is somewhere else it can go that the original story clearly isn't... then it'd just be another recursive fanfiction, right?

[BrentOGara]

Anyone of you can do it.

No one can stop you.

If you want PH to be written differently, then DO IT.

In principle, I agree with this. It's nice to have options.

In reality, it might come off as pretentious or offensive to Somber. It's similar to doing a photoshop of an artist's work and then posting it around without much info about the how and why of it. People might see it, assume it's the artist's own handywork and potentially cause confusion for all involved.

Some people will be mad no matter what you do, ignore them. But for goodness sake, don't post other people's work as your own (or even without explanation) unless you want the entire fanbase to internet-murder you.

But seriously, if any of you do make your own "Phantom Edit" of PH, don't tell me... I've got my own.

[Overthepacific]

Ok, this is kinda getting ridiculous. Overthepacific has been saying for pages now that s/he feels like a bunch of stuff stopped working after ch.33

Heh, give that one a "he" dude.

, and no-one's said 'yes' or 'no' or anything else in direct response to that opinion. I do re-read some chapters here and there, but I haven't done a straight read-through in months so I really can't tell.

That's my opinion. Honestly, no one has given me a direct answer about it yet now that you say something. Its certainly arguable I suppose. Maybe everyone is trying to rethink things, or maybe they just straight up dont agree at all and dont want to say it. Maybe they're reading through to find out.

It seems the only problem anyone has actually had has been with my opinion with the Legate, and that was the least of my complaints.

Someone really telling me how or why things are put together better, in their opinion, in the second half of the story, rather than the first would be nice. But everyone seems to be skipping around that.

[O. Hinds]

He did.

Why did he stop? that seemed to be pretty interesting.

*no answer*

Is it because I wanted to fight you tenderly?

Nah, it's because I don't know.

I still keep thinking about that what-if scenario presented for Go Fish in chapter 43...

Which one?

All of the wasteland being an escapist construct for Go Fish to hide in to avoid dealing with all of the hurt her real life has been causing her leading up to her phychotic break. All of those lies Happyhorn Gardens, basically. If they were true, it'd be hyper-downer, but that little glimpse into what could be was fascinating to me.

Well, for something kind of like that, there's
Asylum. The author is still catfacing about whether Broadhoof or Ponyville is the delusion, but I'm on Realist side (the readers who think that the asylum is the reality and that Twilight is just genuinely mentally ill).

[Overthepacific]

I don't know if somber is anything like me, but from my angle, this is the most disrespectful and disheartening things you could do to a story.

I feel it could be pretty disrespectful, especially if the person doing it never asked the original author if it's OK to do a divergent take. Yet it's a clear sign that something went right that someone is invested enough in the original author's work to actually put in the effort to make an alternate version to begin with. Noone sinks that kind of effort into something they don't care about. It'd be about as flattering as it could be irksome.

But I guess purpose matters to. If they took the story for the sole purpose of 1uping it, yeah, that'd be pretty rude. If it were done because there is somewhere else it can go that the original story clearly isn't... then it'd just be another recursive fanfiction, right?

Im sure with permission it would be okay for that reason, but it still isn't right in my eyes. Maybe a sidefic or something. But just the act of tearing apart someones story and replacing it with your own different words, your own different writing style. It would tear me to pieces to know that someone didn't even want to give me a chance to better myself.

The whole idea just irks me. I dont know, it just doesnt feel right. Maybe as a tribute, but still...

But seriously, if any of you do make your own "Phantom Edit" of PH, don't tell me... I've got my own.

Oh, dude....

[Retl]

Well, for something kind of like that, there's
Asylum.

This is going straight into my reading queue for the weekend. I would have missed it for the sad tag, but it's a theme that catches me. Thanks, Hinds!

[Overthepacific]

[quote="Retl"]

Well, for something kind of like that, there's
Asylum.

Lol, I never said that.

[Retl]

Derp. I'll go fix it up then catch some zs.

[Overthepacific]

Derp. I'll go fix it up then catch some zs.

No worries.

I wish you a merry evening.

[Kippershy]

Hey guys what's going on in thi-



...Brent, I recommend you step back for a moment. Every author is going to make mistakes at times. There's no way not to make a mistake unless you're writing a story so short there's literally no room for any. Even then, some would question the validity of such a story.

It's true that Somber has written the longest running Fallout Equestria side-story with the highest wordcount. That is indisputable fact on both accounts. As to whether it's the most deeply compelling story is a matter of opinion and again with the complexity, some would argue one way while most would argue for your point being true.

but that isn't the point.

No matter how hard Somber works on this, there will always be issues someone has. Sometimes those issues are basic, with the very foundation of the story itself. Those views can almost always be ignored by the author - if a story setting isn't for that specific reader then you really don't need to change it unless they're the one paying you to write it.

When people have issues with certain aspects of the story though, that's when the author needs to hear about it.
I know for a fact that if it wasn't for some of the criticism I got on my own story, I wouldn't have changed my style. I would have continued on and failed to improve.
Instead, I got what I needed to hear and (eventually) reacted accordingly, taking what had been said to me to mind when I next worked on any specific part relative to it.

David is no different.
You can cry to all high heavens about what a tremendous writer he is, and I agree, his skills as a writer are extremely high. However, that doesn't mean he isn't going to have issues in his writing what-so-ever.
In fact, the very fact he's such a skilled writer are what makes it all the worse when he does do something we see as poor or lacking in some way. We all want him to be producing the best stuff he can because when he's going good, he's downright amazing beyond belief.


A lot of people I know externally from here who read the story wish he would go back to his early days because that was when he was at his best.
Back before there was more threads than anyone could reasonably be expected to keep track of in a single story - especially one set over something akin to two months.

It isn't about wanting to rewrite PH ourselves, it's about wanting Somber to see his mistakes, see what we think he did well and what he didn't do so well, get him to focus on what he does amazingly and continue with that - why? because that's what we enjoy the most and we know he's doing this for us as much as himself.

I know how it feels to want to defend Somber and Project Horizons to the bitter end. Hell, I've got a fucking tattoo dedicated to it for all Project Horizons has done for me!
But as I've taken the step back and had the breather I needed to look back and analyse with a more critical eye, I've come to understand the crowd who feel disappointed that what they once loved is rare if not gone forever now.

Does that mean I too feel the same way? In some small respects, yes - as the times have changed for the story and myself, I miss things that used to happen and other things that didn't happen. Does that mean that I hate Project Horizons or want to hurt Somber?

Hell no, of course not.


You need to understand that if you mollycoddle Somber, if you hold him too tightly and suffocate him, he'll never grow.

[Overthepacific]

Hey guys what's going on in thi-

Oh god, I laughed way too hard at that.

I've got a fucking tattoo dedicated to it for all Project Horizons has done for me!

Damn... That is dedication right there. What did you get?

[Guest]

@Do I agree with things having been going downhill since 33 or so?
Eenope. Been enjoying this story for a loooong time, and while my interest waxes and wanes upon occasion (generally due to outside stuff), I can recall plenty of great stuff and favorite moments from after that. I didn't come out and say it or anything 'cos it's not useful to just... say it, y'know? Didn't seem like it, anyway. But yeah, that's my opinion, for what it's worth.

[Kippershy]

Hey guys what's going on in thi-

Oh god, I laughed way too hard at that.

I've got a fucking tattoo dedicated to it for all Project Horizons has done for me!

Damn... That is dedication right there. What did you get?

Sorry for the delay, wanted to take a new picture to show you since it seems to be fully healed now. (From what I can tell, though this was my first.)
Here:

[BrentOGara]

That is disrespectful to somber, even ignoring the fact that I would be pretty much stealing from him.

It's the equivalent of a slap in the face.

Its his story, in the end, he has a final say in it, whether I like it or not. I bring all of these points and flaws against the story right now because I feel that it isn't the story it really could be, so somber might take that into consideration. I dont want to steal his story from him and make it into something that he doesn't want.

I write my own stories, I create my own universe for characters to play around in. I know how upset I would be if someone straight up stole my story and decided it wasn't even worth giving a chance to better itself. If they just rewrite my story that I worked so hard to create just because they dont like parts of it and decided to make it the way they want it, I would be devastated.

However, what I would want, is constructive criticism. You tell me what you think is wrong with my story, and ill appreciate you and really think about what you said and try to make the story a better piece overall, even if it requires some editing.

I agree with everything you've said here.

I don't know if somber is anything like me, but from my angle, this is the most disrespectful and disheartening things you could do to a story. I may not particularly like the direction it could be taking, but I have too much respect for Somber and Project Horizons to forsake the story before it's finished like that.

Given her insistence on not taking Snipehamster's editing advice I strongly suspect that Somber would agree with much of what you've written here. I personally agree with quite a lot of what you've said. I do not agree with the people who think Somber should be forced to change her vision of PH simply to appease a vocal minority.

My original point remains though... if you don't like what Somber is doing, then don't whine about it, fix it.

[Derpmind]

My original point remains though... if you don't like what Somber is doing, then don't whine about it, fix it.

There can only be one writer better than Somber: Somber.

[Meleagridis]

Like I said, I'd prefer if she still had some lingering effects from her phobia, would be more realistic, but I think she's simply gotten over her fear of machines.

Last I heard, one of the things that Somber's planning to include in the revisions is a bit of nervousness on her part about riding in Deus.

Has Scotch actually heard of Deus' history?
While she should certainly have some issues at first, I like the thought of her slowly warming up to him through a very one-sided conversation, particularly if she keeps putting words in his mouth.

I'd like to make clear that the subject at hand is pie:

He did.

Why did he stop? that seemed to be pretty interesting.

Exactly what I asked when I first caught up in the comments thread. This and the writing contest are things I miss.

Someone really telling me how or why things are put together better, in their opinion, in the second half of the story, rather than the first would be nice. But everyone seems to be skipping around that.

...I can't say that this is the same story I read so obsessively when I first came upon it. I agree with swicked that the steady influence taint had on Blackjack was great for the feeling of progress, and Coe Comh Ceov Miss Gaelic spoke true when she said that Flank was the high point of the story- the rest of it does pale in comparison. That's more a testament to the competence of that arc than any failings in the rest of the story.

But honestly, I just can't connect some of the recent stuff. When the edits and revisions came around, I read it all from the beginning and could connect everything mostly straightaway. With a few weeks between, however, the more recent chapters can get a bit more hazy. Perhaps it's time for a re-read... is what someone who can read quickly should be saying.

Quoted for everything aside from the gif... but I didn't have the heart to remove it.
You are right.

[Overthepacific]

Given her insistence on not taking Snipehamster's editing advice I strongly suspect that Somber would agree with much of what you've written here. I personally agree with quite a lot of what you've said. I do not agree with the people who think Somber should be forced to change her vision of PH simply to appease a vocal minority.

My original point remains though... if you don't like what Somber is doing, then don't whine about it, fix it.

I honestly dont think I'm a vocal minority here. A lot of people are starting to take up problems with the story. He lost a lot of readers after the recent chapter.

I'm trying to relay what I think is slipping from the quality of the fic, I'm not whining about it, I'm trying to give honest criticism about what I've read. I'm also not going to be part of a hugbox, that isn't going to help anyone in the long run.

It isn't my job as a reader to fix it. That is ultimately up to somber, and if he chooses to listen to me or not, it doesn't matter. I'm going to bring to light what I think is wrong, so that it may at least be taken into consideration.

[Overthepacific]

Sorry for the delay, wanted to take a new picture to show you since it seems to be fully healed now. (From what I can tell, though this was my first.)
Here:

I have to admit, it does look pretty badass.

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