Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

by O. Hinds Sat Mar 09, 2013 7:44 pm

SilentCarto wrote:I kind of doubt it. As I recall, you have to demonstrate a useful skill as part of the application process to live in Tenpony. While that wouldn't stop somepony from running a (cough cough) side business, their entry requirements are so rigorous that I wouldn't expect to see that brand of desperation in Tenpony in the first place.

See, I disagree, but I think that that may be because we're defining "prostitute" differently. No, there wouldn't be the common Wasteland sort in the tower, but I think that there would be ponies (male and female, despite the link) to whom the literal definition applies.

Ah, and I see that CD and Sindri have already/also had some things to say on this.

by Derpmind Sat Mar 09, 2013 8:51 pm

Snipehamster wrote:I imagine Kkat came up with the statuettes as a way of emulating the bobbleheads from FO3, then built the soul jar subplot around that. All they really did was offer Pip a stat boost in the footnotes and (somehow) help her resist the Black Book. They failed miserably at accomplishing what Rarity actually wanted them to.

Isn't that the point? Kkat turned the silly stat-bobbleheads into heartwarming/horrible tragedy backstory.

I remember Kkat mentioning that the backstory of how the Mane-6 helped drive the apocalypse was one of the most important parts of the story. It kinda saddens me that, for all the brilliant worldbuilding Kkat did, she didn't give equal depth to many of her characters. She mentioned occasionally that she felt an obligation to do Fallout: Equestria 'right' since it was creating so much derivative fiction. I think I might disagree a little bit with her definition of 'right,' which sucks because even with all the flaws, even though it's overshadowed for me by Somber's work, I still like the original FoE a great deal.

So on the other side of the discussion: What are your favorite ideas from the original? Mine has to be Ditzy Doo the ghoul , author of The Wasteland Survival Guide and owner of Absolutely Everything. Take a second and contemplate how much you agree with me.

by Guest Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:05 pm

Snipehamster wrote:
Don't even get me started on the "artistic vision" argument, though. I don't have any sympathy for that line of thought, I'm afraid. Reminds me of how people defend their smudged, jpg-raped MS Paint doodles with cries of "but it's my styyyyle!" on Deviantart. There are rules and conventions to writing and art in general. These exist because certain things work and certain things don't. The rules can be bent and even broken once properly understood, but only to a point.

I disagree. Were that the case, PH would need to be made into a Raymond Carver masturbation session set in a purely realist setting, unless Somber was Argentinian, in which case it could be a magical realist setting. There would be no magical, talking ponies, that's for sure. Well. Okay, maybe you could rewrite Cathedral with the main character and the blind man watching MLP and the main character is asked to draw a pony instead of a cathedral. But, as amazing (albeit anachronistic) as that would be, it would not be this story any more.

Obviously I exaggerate, but you see my point? Artistic vision is absolutely important - I would not judge a Brett Easton Ellis book by the same standards as a Terry Pratchett book. Only one could be good by any one standard. Can this be used as an excuse? Absolutely - like you say, hordes of people crying about how it's their just their "style" to be pretty awful. But, to reuse a metaphor I bandied about a week or two ago, you don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Not to mention that different traditions of art have very different standards; sure, .jpeg artifacts are a no-no universally (well, so far and only as far as I know - guitar feedback and other forms of distortion are important to a lot of styles of art; I could see them being used in hyper-real stuff, sort of, to emulate crappy/amateur photography, though as cell phone cameras get better, I'm not sure how effective this would be), but look at how different painting standards are throughout different traditions.

EDIT: ~~hmm, the html or whatever stuff doesn't seem to be working on this post for me. That's weird...~~ Fixed itself.

by StoneSlinger88 Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:31 pm

Derpmind wrote:So on the other side of the discussion: What are your favorite ideas from the original? Mine has to be Ditzy Doo the ghoul , author of The Wasteland Survival Guide and owner of Absolutely Everything. Take a second and contemplate how much you agree with me.

Ditzy intrigued me as well, I'm using her as a mother-figure for the protagonist in my fic because she has so much open history. There's a lot she's done with no real story behind it, we know a few things of what she did and perhaps when she did them, but it's hard to nail down specific examples that don't include the two months LittlePip and Blackjack interact with her.

by Meleagridis Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:19 am

Favourite Legate Theory

This reminds me of a funny story!:

Replies to abandoned plotlines, Lacunae, Flash Industries shield, Hoss, Fallout: Equestria, Spike, and Cogs v. Viti

I probably missed a lot.:

Snipehamster wrote:
PH's length is something of an issue for me. Not because I think that the story should be shorter - though that would help - but because I see it as a symptom of a larger problem. That problem being that the proliferation of plots and subplots means that certain elements are drawn out to the point of absurdity and tedium (ie. power creep, BJ angst, revisionism of FoE), while other events - including those that would have enough impact to fuel entire stories elsewhere - are handwaved away or given contrived solutions (ie. Glory's lost wing, Scotch's phobias).

While I’m on the ‘serial rah rah’ side of things in regards to the length, I completely agree that the abandoned plotlines are gravely missed opportunities. I probably wouldn’t have minded the KJ-RD transformation growing back a wing if we had a little more consequence for the whole thing. Everybody remembers the Jellylegs phase, right? Like it or not, it was clearly there and it was not a problem that allowed itself to be ignored. It’s something we remember, something that had an impact. But the only reason to remember Glory’s missing wing is that one scene in Flash Industries. Funny, because the problem was gone in a Flash. Still, it at least did have impact in that scene (and, honestly, some others I can’t remember) so I could be more miffed. On the other one, Scotch’s fears- her multiple fears -vanishing into the ether was a major eyebrow raiser. Hope that gets fixed, explained... something.

swicked wrote:
A gap appeared ahead of us, and a lone figure slowly advanced through the mist. The zebra stallion advancing moved with a slow gait that conveyed terrible power and grace all at once. His head was concealed by a dragon skull carved with strange glyphs across the bone. His powerful body bore innumerable scars across its surface, including a horrible Y-shaped injury across his chest. More carved dragonbone armor formed spikes at his hips and flank, strapped in place. His weapon was a simple double-pointed spear with dragon fangs tipping both ends.

It would be great if that was all made from the dragon in that museum BJ once got a fang from. IIRC, when she went back, the entire skeleton had been picked clean. She also encountered zebra then, so... yeah.

I had almost given up hope at the fading notion of Vitiosus being a downtrodden fraud, I’ve got to admit it’s an idea I really like. He has the Brood to do things without other remnants knowing, so maybe they can help get him bits and baubles to puff up his tales with ‘evidence.’ Not too likely, I know... but I like the thought.

swicked wrote:...why does Lacunae shoot that rapist?
She sounds like P-21 with her "maintain appearances" speech. Lacunae always held back, hating herself, feeling unfit to judge. She hosts the collective guilt of an army of monsters, after all. The way she speaks here doesn't sound right to me.
I've never been an expert on Lacunae, but I really try to get into the minds of these characters, and I wouldn't of expected her to do this.
Psalm only killed under orders, after all. She was never a monster, just a very mislead person.

I’m of the belief that Blackjack pulled the trigger, and Lacunae is just fulfilling the role to which she’s accustomed. As I say in the reaction, Blackjack pulling the trigger (whether justified or not) is another step closer to the villainess we’ve been leading up to. I couldn’t say for sure if Lacunae has an interest in preventing this by lying to her, but I should assume she’d protect Blackjack from this knowledge as a friend.

swicked wrote:To be perfectly honest, I've never liked Lacunae. For all the time she's been around I still have only the vaguest grasp of her character. She just sticks in the background all the time, knowing little about what is going on, lending heavy weapons, healing spells, teleportation and... really, that's it.

Somber never made me care about her... not for a single instant. She doesn't really try. When she gets hurt, she just falls down. When she excels, she ends up channeling the goddess or quoting someone else (occasionally breaking fourth walls). Her personality just seems so vapid I've never gotten a grasp on it. I wish someone could explain to me who she is beyond some emo vulcan or whatever. What she's passionate about, what she'd fight for, who she really is. As it stands, whether or not the "true" Lacunae comes out with the Goddess' fall, I just don't care. She's been around forever as a nothing, sticking about (I suppose) just because the goddess told her to.

Maybe I’ve got some bias, but I like that she actually sticks to silence. Often, the stoic character breaks down and gives everybody their mushy backstory and soft side after the first campfire scene. Lacunae, on the other hand, is a believable reticent. She honestly acts like she should, as someone who sees herself as nothing more than a tool to be used for others. She only ever came close to revealing herself in very private conversations with Blackjack, because BJ needed her counsel. She (BJ) needed Lacunae as a tool for recovery, even if she didn’t want to ask. So Lacunae interposed and interpreted what she (Lac) thought BJ needed.

She doesn’t see herself as necessary to the story, so she tries to stay out. Stay quiet. Only appear when somebody needs her. Which leads to my favourite part, that she will help her friends whether they ask or not.

Apparently she’s done something selfish to Blackjack, something to hurt her. I can’t see it. I think it was like the trigger, like the therapy, like the hovering over her and reading her dreams while Blackjack slept. She is going out of her way to be helpful without Blackjack’s permission, but this time the consequences may be more severe than some revealing dreams.

swicked wrote:

Out!

Still waiting for Rover and Triage to get their canon conversation.

jacky2734 wrote:I think I have a pretty good idea what Project Horizons MIGHT do. From recent flashbacks and key scenes, we've learned that moonstone reacts violently against starmetal, destroying the starmetal and releasing a huge amount of energy.

From what Goldenblood was asking Dr. Horse a chapter or two ago, it's looking more and more like Project Horizons is just a fancy way of saying that they were going to drop the Moon on the EoS in the Core. But as also stated in that scene, such a reaction would not only destroy the EoS, but also decimate the World, quite possibly shattering it.

This seemed like a horrible idea, until I remembered that Flash Industries had unveiled that personal shield tech that was capable of sustaining itself, even after the emitter was disabled, as long as the attacks kept feeding it energy.

So my theory is that Project Horizons shoots the moon, or a sizable chunk of it, into the Core, and then, before the explosion happens, a ramped up version of the FI shield goes up and completely surrounds the core in a sphere of energy. The shield keeps the explosion contained, and the explosion keeps the shield powered. The process goes like that until the energy is spent and all that's left of the core is a large, perfectly circular crater in the ground that quickly gets filled up by sea water while the rest of the world remained untouched.
What do you think?

What are the odds that a massive Flash Industries shield is already active... and containing something?

Luminous Lead wrote:
Man, Hoss was really awesome in retrospect. You guys remember Hoss, the unburied skeleton from way back in Chapter 2? He directed Marigold's foal, Blackjack's Ancestor, to a nearby stable so that she could survive the megaspells. His final wish provided a moment for Blackjack to do something for others. He would also have offered Psalm a place to belong (while unknowing of the fact that she'd killed his grandson, but I suspect he would have done it anyway), had she stayed around to accept it.

He was just a minor character from way back in the second chapter, but his actions made Blackajack's very existance possible, and have given her strength from her from the beginning of her journey.

Very few simple throwaway characters, especially early on. There is so much foreshadowing in the early chapters that it would make your heads explode. I love this story.

Repeated due to abundance of truth. Hoss rocked.

Sindri wrote:
Spoiler:

Can I properly express how much I like this idea? It seems I cannot, but I must try.
The thought that both Cogs and Viti are leading armies with goals directly opposed to their own gives me no end of amusement, more for the (presumably?) flesh and blood Legate since there’s reason to believe Cogs has a tenuous grip on sanity. Still it would be quite a sight to see each legion roil if word ever got out.

@Someone I can’t remember but it definitely happened somewhere.
Re: Spike bringing in Blackjack to his cave:
When was Blackjack confirmed for not being an element? Was it her, or am I thinking of Littlepip? For 200 years Spike is waiting, hoping, praying that the six he needs survive the most brutal wasteland this world has ever seen and make their way to him, assuming they are even born at the same time. Blackjack was contacted because she was a potential candidate. And she was about to blow out her own brains because the world was too terrible to bear. Watching this is Spike, who may or may not need Blackjack to fulfill his life’s purpose. She’s in flying distance, nobody is expecting his departure. What does he do? He could let it happen. Do nothing. Let things pass by and watch the world burn around him. He’s done it once before.

Only this time he’s awake.

Snipehamster wrote:That point on Pip might have been personal bias talking. I never really connected with her as a character. The fact that she had little to no backstory (presumably to make it easier for the reader to 'take her place') or even description clashed with the fact that she had such strong opinions and served such an important role in-universe.

If someone were to ask me what my least favorite part(s) of FoE were, I'd say 'LittlePip, Homage, the opening, the ending, and the fact that it takes itself too seriously'. Though the story's flaws are made up for by its worldbuilding and the incredibly creative subfandom that it spawned.

What characters did you connect with?
I kinda liked Red Eye, then he got way too stupid. I couldn't care less about any of the rest of them.

Edit:
If someone were to ask me what my least favorite parts of FoE were, I would definitely say the end, but after that... I dunno. I didn't have a strongly positive or negative opinion of any of it. I read it so that I'd better understand PH. It was a decent story, but I just never got very excited about it. Not like PH and MN7.[/quote]

Derpmind wrote:
Snipehamster wrote:I imagine Kkat came up with the statuettes as a way of emulating the bobbleheads from FO3, then built the soul jar subplot around that. All they really did was offer Pip a stat boost in the footnotes and (somehow) help her resist the Black Book. They failed miserably at accomplishing what Rarity actually wanted them to.

Isn't that the point? Kkat turned the silly stat-bobbleheads into heartwarming/horrible tragedy backstory.

I remember Kkat mentioning that the backstory of how the Mane-6 helped drive the apocalypse was one of the most important parts of the story. It kinda saddens me that, for all the brilliant worldbuilding Kkat did, she didn't give equal depth to many of her characters. She mentioned occasionally that she felt an obligation to do Fallout: Equestria 'right' since it was creating so much derivative fiction. I think I might disagree a little bit with her definition of 'right,' which sucks because even with all the flaws, even though it's overshadowed for me by Somber's work, I still like the original FoE a great deal.

So on the other side of the discussion: What are your favorite ideas from the original? Mine has to be Ditzy Doo the ghoul , author of The Wasteland Survival Guide and owner of Absolutely Everything. Take a second and contemplate how much you agree with me.

Thinking back on it, I realise that I really didn't like anybody in FO:E. Steelhooves was the most tolerable in the main cast, but I was lukewarm to him at best. I don't remember actually sitting up and taking notice of a character until Goris, in the Everfree. He establishes an interesting position of the Apple Acres hellhounds as hulking monsters trying to avoid conflict with silly parlor tricks, grudgingly accepts that ponies- who he knew were little more than murderers in his society -might actually NOT kill him (eventually) and then he gets used to prove that Velvet can play nice and is tossed aside.
I do remember FO:E, and I remember liking it. But when I try to remember what exactly I liked, I just draw a blank. Mph.

Only a couple weeks behind!

Chapter Thoughts:

Actual favourite Legate theory.

Without actual spoilers:

by O. Hinds Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:56 am

Meleagridis wrote:Favourite Legate Theory
This reminds me of a funny story!:

Replies to abandoned plotlines, Lacunae, Flash Industries shield, Hoss, Fallout: Equestria, Spike, and Cogs v. Viti
I probably missed a lot.:

Only a couple weeks behind!
Chapter Thoughts:

Actual favourite Legate theory.
Without actual spoilers:

Thank you for that lovely post and the feedback within it.

by OneMoreDaySK Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:00 am

Been talking with Obs when he was reading the chapter, and I have a pet theory that The Legate is from the star clan. I mean, wouldn't that be one of the biggest twists? Having the leader of the anti-star group be an actual star worshiper? That would explain the nigh invincibility that he displayed, as well as giving reason for killing her inside the core, instead of right then.

Re: guilt
Even if Lacunae said that, Blackjack is going to angst about it anyways, as she thinks that blaming it on her would be too easy.

by Somber Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:08 am

I'm planning a revision of 54. Both the Legate fight and two other small parts. Sorry I didn't do a better job. I'm just hoping to get through it so I can start 55.

by SilentCarto Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:26 am

O. Hinds wrote:See, I disagree, but I think that that may be because we're defining "prostitute" differently. No, there wouldn't be the common Wasteland sort in the tower, but I think that there would be ponies (male and female, despite the link) to whom the literal definition applies.

No, we're still using the same definition.

It's not that I think Tenpony wouldn't support someone in that line of work. It's just that every resident by definition already has a profession. Somepony might occasionally fall on hard times and turn to prostitution to meet their rent, but I think that kind of arrangement would be fleeting and more in the nature of a paid mistress rather than anything open to the general public.

Derpmind wrote:So on the other side of the discussion: What are your favorite ideas from the original? Mine has to be Ditzy Doo the ghoul , author of The Wasteland Survival Guide and owner of Absolutely Everything. Take a second and contemplate how much you agree with me.

Yeah, Derpy was really a perfect fit for Moira's role. Like, to the point that I halfway expected one of Moira's eyes to start wandering after I read FoE.

I loved the permanent cloud-cover and its relation to the Enclave. It gives you the properly gloomy "mood weather" for Post-Apocalyptia, and it provides the continual sense of wrongness of a world out of balance. But as the story progresses, it also comes to represent the more metaphorical division of peoples and the willful blindness that Pip has to overcome to bring ponykind back together.

Meleagridis wrote:Lancer’s rifle has batwings on it. Is that a zebra thing, like the talismans? Or is Lancer not above pilfering from old Lunar stores?

The batwing talisman produces a bubble of silence around him (tap to toggle.) He had that gun during the museum raid, though interestingly not during his assassination mission to Brimstone's Fall.

by O. Hinds Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:28 am

Somber wrote:I'm planning a revision of 54. Both the Legate fight and two other small parts. Sorry I didn't do a better job. I'm just hoping to get through it so I can start 55.

Roger; I have created an email thread and at the top of Chapter 54 added a notification of the pending revisions.

by O. Hinds Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:30 am

SilentCarto wrote:
O. Hinds wrote:See, I disagree, but I think that that may be because we're defining "prostitute" differently. No, there wouldn't be the common Wasteland sort in the tower, but I think that there would be ponies (male and female, despite the link) to whom the literal definition applies.
No, we're still using the same definition.

It's not that I think Tenpony wouldn't support someone in that line of work. It's just that every resident by definition already has a profession. Somepony might occasionally fall on hard times and turn to prostitution to meet their rent, but I think that kind of arrangement would be fleeting and more in the nature of a paid mistress rather than anything open to the general public.

Yes, every resident already has a profession (or is a child of someone who has one), but why couldn't that profession be for some ponies prostitution?

by Somber Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:53 am

I doubt there's officially any prostitution in tenpony. More likely there are a few 'mistresses' who give companionship for material goods. It would be extremely common and crass if they allowed it.

BTW... why am I imagining a fic with a unicorn prostitute named 'Nova'?

by O. Hinds Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:02 am

Somber wrote:I doubt there's officially any prostitution in tenpony. More likely there are a few 'mistresses' who give companionship for material goods. It would be extremely common and crass if they allowed it.

BTW... why am I imagining a fic with a unicorn prostitute named 'Nova'?

Well, I don't know where the name came from, but I admit some curiosity regarding this (as far as I know) hitherto unexplored facet of Tenpony society. (Really, Tenpony society in general I find rather interesting; it is a somewhat unique environment.)

by Ketchup Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:34 am

O. Hinds wrote:
Somber wrote:I doubt there's officially any prostitution in tenpony. More likely there are a few 'mistresses' who give companionship for material goods. It would be extremely common and crass if they allowed it.

BTW... why am I imagining a fic with a unicorn prostitute named 'Nova'?
Well, I don't know where the name came from, but I admit some curiosity regarding this (as far as I know) hitherto unexplored facet of Tenpony society. (Really, Tenpony society in general I find rather interesting; it is a somewhat unique environment.)

The name might be from Fallout 3, there's a prostitute in Moriarty's Saloon named Nova, if my memory serves.

As for prostitution being present in Tenpony, aside from stigma of the position, nothing seems to be in place to stop it. I do know there is a trope that relates to spas being a front for prostitution. Just a thought.

by Sindri Sun Mar 10, 2013 4:07 am

SilentCarto wrote:
O. Hinds wrote:See, I disagree, but I think that that may be because we're defining "prostitute" differently. No, there wouldn't be the common Wasteland sort in the tower, but I think that there would be ponies (male and female, despite the link) to whom the literal definition applies.
No, we're still using the same definition.

It's not that I think Tenpony wouldn't support someone in that line of work. It's just that every resident by definition already has a profession. Somepony might occasionally fall on hard times and turn to prostitution to meet their rent, but I think that kind of arrangement would be fleeting and more in the nature of a paid mistress rather than anything open to the general public.

No, it's a very different profession. In the lower classes, prostitution is generally something turned to out of necessity because it's typically unpleasant, degrading, and dangerous but it gives you enough "easy" money to get by. In the higher classes it's a profession chosen by those of a certain mindset because it's generally easy, pleasurable work that pays a fuckton of money. There are almost certainly mares and stallions in Tenpony Tower with 'Escort' or 'Companion' listed as their official profession, living as well or better than their clients. Tenpony was never indicated to be a very conservative or sexually repressed culture, just one of classism and soft living.

by Leoman Sun Mar 10, 2013 4:47 am

Somber wrote:BTW... why am I imagining a fic with a unicorn prostitute named 'Nova'?

Nova's the prostitute at Moriarty's Saloon in fallout 3

by Sindri Sun Mar 10, 2013 6:00 am

Welcome!

by O. Hinds Sun Mar 10, 2013 6:01 am

Oh, you're a newcomer! Indeed, welcome!

by Kippershy Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:33 am

damn it, being asleep so I couldn't answer the Nova thing is annoying.

by Snipehamster Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:09 am

Derpmind wrote:
Snipehamster wrote:I imagine Kkat came up with the
statuettes as a way of emulating the bobbleheads from FO3, then built
the soul jar subplot around that. All they really did was offer Pip a
stat boost in the footnotes and (somehow) help her resist the Black
Book. They failed miserably at accomplishing what Rarity actually wanted them to.

Isn't that the point? Kkat turned the silly stat-bobbleheads into heartwarming/horrible tragedy backstory.

Well, yes and no. If you take the perspective that Rarity's soul-cutting was futile from the start (did she really think her plan through? At all?) it comes across as rather senseless.

Overlong Analysis Cobalt wrote:
Snipehamster wrote:
Don't even get me started on the "artistic vision" argument, though. I don't have any sympathy for that line of thought, I'm afraid. Reminds me of how people defend their smudged, jpg-raped MS Paint doodles with cries of "but it's my styyyyle!" on Deviantart. There are rules and conventions to writing and art in general. These exist because certain things work and certain things don't. The rules can be bent and even broken once properly understood, but only to a point.

I disagree. Were that the case, PH would need to be made into a Raymond Carver masturbation session set in a purely realist setting, unless Somber was Argentinian, in which case it could be a magical realist setting. There would be no magical, talking ponies, that's for sure. Well. Okay, maybe you could rewrite Cathedral with the main character and the blind man watching MLP and the main character is asked to draw a pony instead of a cathedral. But, as amazing (albeit anachronistic) as that would be, it would not be this story any more.

Obviously I exaggerate, but you see my point? Artistic vision is absolutely important - I would not judge a Brett Easton Ellis book by the same standards as a Terry Pratchett book. Only one could be good by any one standard. Can this be used as an excuse? Absolutely - like you say, hordes of people crying about how it's their just their "style" to be pretty awful. But, to reuse a metaphor I bandied about a week or two ago, you don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Not to mention that different traditions of art have very different standards; sure, .jpeg artifacts are a no-no universally (well, so far and only as far as I know - guitar feedback and other forms of distortion are important to a lot of styles of art; I could see them being used in hyper-real stuff, sort of, to emulate crappy/amateur photography, though as cell phone cameras get better, I'm not sure how effective this would be), but look at how different painting standards are throughout different traditions.

EDIT: ~~hmm, the html or whatever stuff doesn't seem to be working on this post for me. That's weird...~~ Fixed itself.

Not going to rant about this. No, you wouldn't judge a Brett Easton Ellis book by the exact same standards as a Terry Pratchett book. But there are many standards (for example, internal consistency and grammatical correctness) which you would judge both of them by. 'Artistic vision' doesn't let you get away with everything.

To use FoE as an example, artistic vision may well be part of the justification for merging MLP and Fallout. A more specific case may be the footnotes at the end of each chapter. However, artistic vision does not excuse the rushed, anticlimactic ending or the sometimes haphazard grammar, which remains uncorrected even in the printed copies.

by Moodyman90 Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:09 pm

Granted it's been almost a year since I read the original FoE and nearly as long as I heard this... but didn't Kkat at one point in time say that, with the exception of chapter 20.5, all stories based off Fallout Equestria are non-canon as far as she's concern?

Once again, it's been a long while since I heard that so I don't know if it's true or if Kkat has said something different since then.

All the talk about the original story and keeping with the canon it set and all reminded me of books set in a share universe, and of Star Wars and the different levels and hardness of canon it has.

by StoneSlinger88 Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:40 pm

Kkat wanted people to write their own stories, and not fuss over if everything fit with her description of the Equestrian Wasteland. Which is why she said the other stories were non-canon, to give authors more freedom in which to move about with their plots and characters.

by Caoimhe Sun Mar 10, 2013 6:40 pm

Though I know Somber and Kkat have a relationship regarding permission for altering canon and whatnot, I'm glad that everything else is considered non-canon. I'd hate for Anywhere But Here to be considered canon.

I'll never shut up about how much I hate that fic.

by Caoimhe Sun Mar 10, 2013 6:53 pm

It's just really, really over the top violence and then suddenly it becomes porn (with all the stupid "throbbing member" bullshit that comes with it). Author has gone on record saying he doesn't care about story or character development, he just wants to make an exploitive fic with no artistic merit, so he's using the FoEniverse to get attention. There's good exploitation and there's utter garbage, of which AbH is the latter.

Maybe it was the other thread where I talked about how awful it was but there's an element of misogyny that feels a bit unsettling (or at least eyerollingly dumb) and there's no real connection between the two protagonists that makes any sense other than a self insert and manic dream girl stereotype.

by Snipehamster Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:13 pm

As I understand it, no sidefics (up to and including PH) are considered canon with the optional exception of 20.5.

There's been a little confusion over the 'Kkat approved' tag, which refers to PH having its own EqD post rather than its own place in canon. Kkat hasn't read PH and, to my knowledge, doesn't plan to.

by Derpmind Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:33 pm

Snipehamster wrote:Kkat hasn't read PH and, to my knowledge, doesn't plan to.

I believe that Kkat said she was planning on reading lots of the sidefics, but if she's said that she doesn't plan on reading PH I haven't seen it. I remember her saying that she wasn't going to read any sidefics until after she finished FoE, but no direct statements about PH... maybe I'm misremembering something? I have bad memory sometimes.

by Snipehamster Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:14 pm

Derpmind wrote:
Snipehamster wrote:Kkat hasn't read PH and, to my knowledge, doesn't plan to.

I believe that Kkat said she was planning on reading lots of the sidefics, but if she's said that she doesn't plan on reading PH I haven't seen it. I remember her saying that she wasn't going to read any sidefics until after she finished FoE, but no direct statements about PH... maybe I'm misremembering something? I have bad memory sometimes.

I believe she said something to that effect on IRC, but I'd need to trawl through months of logs to find it.

by OneMoreDaySK Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:40 pm

Last thing I remembered definitely about KKat and PH is that she said she was a slow reader. Now whether she's gonna read it, wait until it's finished, or not, that bit is a fuzzy.

by Overthepacific Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:14 am

I usually dont post here, in fact, the last time I got involved with the comment thread was back in the second thread on eqd, but I feel compelled to now.

I just got caught up on the newest chapter, and honestly, I dont know what to think anymore.

First off, I dont even know where the story is even headed anymore. Between the remnants, dawn and the harbringers, the goddess, the enclave, and every break off in between, Im not sure what ties into what, or if its even supposed to come together at all.
Major plot points like EC-1101, and the OIA have faded off into obscurity, well mostly anyway.
Its just become so painfully convoluted that It feels like them trying to get to shadowbolt tower is just a side quest now. Hell, I dont think Ive even seen the word "enervation" for 15 chapters. All these major points in the story just become so numerous and overwhelming, that its getting hard just to follow along without having to go back and read other chapters just to see what is actually going on.It seems as if since sanguine died, this story has almost lost direction altogether.

Secondly, the characters are starting to range from bland and forgettable to downright repetitive and annoying. Bj has been stuck in a rut for so long with hating herself and not even wanting to kill ponies anymore that its simply gotten old. I can understand that shes changed from the reckless mare that stepped out of the stable, but she just isnt likeable anymore. As for everyone else, the group has gotten so large that none of the characters really even get much development anymore. Most of the characters just seem flat and built up just to serve a specific purpose in the group, nothing is really changing anymore, except the addition of more characters.

Finally, the legate? Really? At first I thought "Oh, this is going to be a cool fight!" and was glad to read it up until Bj pretty much cut his head off, and he didnt die. I can almost accept the lightning powers and whatnot, with all the strange zebra alchemy, but another invincible character? Overall the story is edging towards the ridiculous. I just cant buy into something like that fitting into fallout equestria. Now if it had slowly eased into the ridiculousness and strange powers, kinda like what mgs 3 did with the cobras, and explained it a bit with others beforehand, it mightve been better. Even a break off of the fic with something really showing the zebra lands for what they really are here wouldve been nice, i know it wouldve been more useful then the stygus arc in the least.

Overall it feels like its supposed to be two or three stories all crammed together into one, with characters being stretched out and used between all of them, creating unneeded and confusing conflict that is just plain convoluted. I almost feel like the peak of the story was when blackjack died. After that it seems like it just goes downhill from there, with every other encounter feeling less and less unique.

Now before you chalk all of this up to hating on PH and somber, this was and still is my absolute favorite story. Somber is probably one of the best writers I know, and I still love going through and rereading, but I just dont want this to take a bad direction and lose its quality before its too late. Im going to read this story to the end no matter what, so you dont have to worry about losing this fan.

by Overthepacific Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:30 am

Im not sure how to reply properly but,

The legate isnt really the biggest problem for me, I kinda liked the idea outside of the mystical powers.
What really irks me is what started showing up in the last twenty or so chapters. The legate really just made me start to rethink all of it.

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