Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

[Snipehamster]

...and what role did Dusk have that isn't being filled by Glory?
I thought a dashite was always supposed to be part of the fic.

No idea. Glory's introduction was long before my time.

[tylertoon2]

...and what role did Dusk have that isn't being filled by Glory?
I thought a dashite was always supposed to be part of the fic.

No idea. Glory's introduction was long before my time.

I don't know, maybe he just wanted to prove he could kill off a major character?

[Derpmind]

RETCON RETCON RETCON.


While FoE did a great deal of worldbuilding, much of that was setting creation. Kkat had two main things to do with the backstory: Explain how the apocalypse happened, which was done mostly through the mane 6, and set up lots of Chekhov's guns and other plot devices. And yes, that's a lot of stuff. But there's whole acres of uncovered territory in the original story. Heck, the holes made the world seem bigger! We only have sparse details about Broken Hoof despite how important it is. Rainbow Dash and the Ministry of Awesome is the most obvious example, but there's just so much that's ambiguous, questionable or unknown. Take a look at our forum everyone, why do we do so much speculation over everything? It's because the mysteries are fun! We're not here to nitpick that a memory orb in PH contradicts a character's idle speculation in FoE, we're here to have fun! All those mysteries were there before, and Somber's amazing at tunneling into them and making finding more.

If a chapter's written that has some kind of mistake or that some of us dislike, it's not the end of the world (again.) We're here to have fun. We find this story beyond entertaining. If Somber really does mess up, then we should help him fix it and have fun with it anyways. PH is a serial story, and as such of course it could improve with some revisions, but those can come later. There are no stone walls that would require that the story be stopped. I'm looking forward to our hearing how Somber rephrases our WTF moment to the Security group's collective WTF moment. I'm looking forward to the Legate's unlikely sob story. And if some months from now the story gets some heavy edits, well, all the better for the future.

Though in my opinion the fact that she originally didn't have a role planned out is becoming steadily more obvious.

If that was ever 'obvious' in the story it's long past that point. Even without the Killing Joke, Glory's had so many important in this story that a list would be very tedious to bring out. Maybe it seems different from your perspective as an editor somehow, but as a reader I'm just not seeing what you're saying. And if it was hard to make her have a relevant role then all the better for doing such a good job of it.

[Caoimhe]

So, like. I know hinds emailed him but Somber isn't stranded, is he? I can throw him some cash if he needs, assuming he has a Paypal card to use it with.

How the fuck can convention managers be that incompetent? Holy hell.

[O. Hinds]

I know that was his original plan, too.
Glory is better than... I think it was Viper... though.
He kept her because he thought she was a better fit, and I'd agree. Glory makes a better match for BJ and the team, assuming her sister wouldn't have turned out just as small, timid, intelligent and quirky.
I think she balances the team, and I've never heard somber bemoan her before.
Can any of the editor's attest to if somber regrets Glory's existance?

Not as far as I know.

Though in my opinion the fact that she originally didn't have a role planned out is becoming steadily more obvious.

If that was ever 'obvious' in the story it's long past that point. Even without the Killing Joke, Glory's had so many important in this story that a list would be very tedious to bring out. Maybe it seems different from your perspective as an editor somehow, but as a reader I'm just not seeing what you're saying. And if it was hard to make her have a relevant role then all the better for doing such a good job of it.

I don't really see this either.


@Swicked:
You seem to be doubleposting.

[O. Hinds]

So, like. I know hinds emailed him but Somber isn't stranded, is he? I can throw him some cash if he needs, assuming he has a Paypal card to use it with.

How the fuck can convention managers be that incompetent? Holy hell.

I've not heard anything back from him yet. Perhaps I ought to request his cellphone number for situations like this...

[O. Hinds]

I just got home. I'm exhausted, depressed, and broke. If the trend
continues, I expect to discover I'm fired tomorrow. I also read the
4chan comments and the comments in the forum and it looks like I
botched PH. I haven't been so discouraged to continue since ch 37 of
FoE came out.

[Caoimhe]

I sure hope that's self depreciating motivation he's working with there. Be well, kiddo.

[tylertoon2]

I just got home. I'm exhausted, depressed, and broke. If the trend
continues, I expect to discover I'm fired tomorrow. I also read the
4chan comments and the comments in the forum and it looks like I
botched PH. I haven't been so discouraged to continue since ch 37 of
FoE came out.

Tyler.Exe has stopped working, please reboot and try again

[RoboRed]

I just got home. I'm exhausted, depressed, and broke. If the trend
continues, I expect to discover I'm fired tomorrow. I also read the
4chan comments and the comments in the forum and it looks like I
botched PH. I haven't been so discouraged to continue since ch 37 of
FoE came out.

...Fuck.

[Moodyman90]

I just hope that's just the exhaustion from the con speaking.


While I have no authority or power to enforce this, I request that we just drop the current discussions. There are those of us here who enjoyed the last chapter and there are those who didn't, up to and including members of the brushing team and I think we can agree on that.

Other then that, we've been at this for over a week and the only real thing of note that's changed since the beginning has been Sniperhamster going "This is how I would have written PH if it was my story."

People bring up something they don't like, somebody else brings up justification for why it's like that and repeat. The place has gone stagnate and it's not moving forward.

I wish Somber well. I hope he can get over this weekend and its events and can continue on. As I said before, I've stuck by PH for over 50 chapters, I'm willing to give Somber some leeway at times. And while I didn't have too much of a problem with the last chapter, that doesn't mean I never had a problem with any others before. But I kept with it and those problems got corrected over the course of the story as a whole.

I know not everybody can do that, but please, can we drop everything right now, and just wait and see what comes next?

[O. Hinds]

Well the con was good.  Once I got out of my friday slump, saturday
was awesome.  De Lancie was great, and I got to talk to some
screenwriters and [REDACTED] and... then
everything broke down.  The vendors were almost running for the hills
when they heard that the hotel was going to try and fine them.  There
were one or two small panels.  Then I was told I could either stay,
sign a paper, and be charged double or I could be evicted, fined
almost two hundred dollars, and charged double anyway.  It was just a
disaster.

And I got a 200 dollar ticket on the way down, so... damn it... no show for me.

So yeah.  I'm not broke broke YET.  I'll be down to my last 1-2
hundred dollars after bills are paid at the end of the month, but it's
going to suck until my next paycheck.

Redaction mine by Somber's request. :)

[Somber]

So... anyway. Now that I'm home, I can post on this forum. That was why I was saying things on 4chan. I couldn't log into this one on my phone.

So. The con. The story as I understand it was that the con counted on a lot of attendees. Like 800-1000 or so. When they didn't get enough ticket sales, they allowed people to put down a "reservation" or something in lieu of payment. Big mistake. Instead of cancelling, which would have sucked, they went ahead thinking they could drum up enough money to cover the difference. Bigger mistake.

Then the Hotel found out and asked for ALL of their money, now, saturday night. The con organizers folded like wet tissue. They con was basically taken over by the media guys, but by then we were past the critical point. Anyone with a room through the con was threatened to be evicted, which included ALL the VA's, unless they could pay out of pocket. All the airfare went to the hotel, so the VA's had to pay again. The fund drive was to get the VA's home, and I hope it was successful. I understand anyone with a room reserved through the con, and I'm not sure who did and didn't count, had to pay full price. Like yours truly. Oh, and if I didn't pay, they would have evicted me and charged me anyway. Yeah. Thanks, Rivera.

The tragedy is the con itself was pretty enjoyable. Oh, I had an emotional dive Friday afternoon at the concert, but once I got past that, Saturday was good. With a little panel improvement for writers and artists, it would have been even better.

So yes... the lesson is... if your con counts on having 1000 attendees, and you only get 600, don't continue on gambling on the 400 to materialize out of nowhere. You'll go bust... big time.

[tylertoon2]

Well the con was good.  Once I got out of my friday slump, saturday
was awesome.  De Lancie was great, and I got to talk to some
screenwriters and [REDACTED] and... then
everything broke down.  The vendors were almost running for the hills
when they heard that the hotel was going to try and fine them.  There
were one or two small panels.  Then I was told I could either stay,
sign a paper, and be charged double or I could be evicted, fined
almost two hundred dollars, and charged double anyway.  It was just a
disaster.

And I got a 200 dollar ticket on the way down, so... damn it... no show for me.

So yeah.  I'm not broke broke YET.  I'll be down to my last 1-2
hundred dollars after bills are paid at the end of the month, but it's
going to suck until my next paycheck.

Redaction mine by Somber's request. :)

Well looks like we have an opportunity to do some good here folks.

Lets get some donations going!

Unfortunately do to my age and parents and what not I cannot Directly contribute, but I was planning on buying some money on steam soon. Soooooo...

Whoever can donate the most wins a twenty dollar game on steam of their choosing! Bare in mind it might take me sometime to get the card, but I should be able to before the end of the month. So go at it! Get those paypal accounts rolling!

@Somber

Glad to hear you've enjoyed some of the event anyway. They really need to get better people on board to organize such things...

[Harmony Ltd.]

Git'r'done.

[Valikdu]

I know what I'll do when work ends tomorrow.

[FeatherDust]

Somber:
I don't think you "flubbed" the chapter at all. I can't disagree more strongly with the people complaining about it. While snipe might have some valid points, they are in general minor issues of structure or overall characterization and have little to do with the current chapter.

And really, when I start seeing "if it were my story" followed by vast changes to the plot, I kind of tune out. It's not anyone's story but yours, and I'm here to read what you wrote, not what anyone else thinks would be better or less "anime" (whatever that means to them). I might even dislike a certain story element, but if I do, that's MY issue. It's not your responsibility to ensure I love every word. My favorite books have bits that make me roll my eyes. Doesn't mean the story is bad or wrong.

My personal reaction to the Legate was "WHAT?! Oh, hax! What is this?!" But it isn't aimed at you, the author. I trust your ability to tell a story. I'm not saying "I don't understand this, what's wrong with you". I'm saying "I don't understand this, what could it mean? Is the Legate an immortal? Is he THE immortal? Is he lying about the Caesar's dominion over the elements? What's up with that armor?" And so on. My dismay is the dismay of the characters learning there's always a bigger fish, not throwing away a book in a fit of pique.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is -- believe in yourself. We'll still be here to read it no matter what 4chan thinks.

And no, kipper, I won't be having any respect for 4chan. Sorry.

[Harmony Ltd.]

To speak in crude terms, 4chan is like the Black Hole of the internet, a singularity of the worst the 'net has to offer ; instead that in lieu of being a black hole you could more accurately picture it as a giant asshole suffering from a severe case of explosive diarrhea, directing the foulest humors of its intestines to all it can reach.

Always.

Forever.


What I mean is, don't pay attention to anything 4chan has to say. That'd be silly.

[Guest]

Due to the magic of free textbooks for Java programming (don't blame them for my errors, that's just being used to Eclipse and its magical, magical highlighting of screwups - the downside of cybernetic systems is that they work crappily when separated) I have some extra cash. So, yeah, is this a thing we're doing?

Also, Somber, please don't get too down about this latest chapter. I doubt anyone who's committed to reading PH is going to stop reading, whatever their reaction, and I also don't think anyone thinks that any perceived problems with it outweigh all the amazing work you've put into this story. I certainly don't. I mean, I also thought that the chapter was highly entertaining and did not see more than a few flaws in it, none of which were the big two topics people are focusing on, but even if I did, I am not one to throw babies out with bathwater, and I doubt many others are, either. I trust you on this, in that you've either got a plan that's gonna kick ass, or that you can make whatever changes you decide to make to said plan work, and work well. You always have.

Please say if you're in need of money, and know that we do, ultimately, have your back.

[Vergil]

I'm with OAC because fuck yeah tax returns.

[Guest]

...throw babies out of bathwater?

Throwing the baby out with the bathwater is still an expression we use, right? Actually, come to think of it, we probably DON'T, since we no longer throw out bathwater but instead have drains. Idioms! =P Anyway, link to Wikipedia article. It essentially means, "getting rid of the good in an overzealous attempt to get rid of the bad."

[Kippershy]

So... anyway. Now that I'm home, I can post on this forum. That was why I was saying things on 4chan. I couldn't log into this one on my phone.

So. The con. The story as I understand it was that the con counted on a lot of attendees. Like 800-1000 or so. When they didn't get enough ticket sales, they allowed people to put down a "reservation" or something in lieu of payment. Big mistake. Instead of cancelling, which would have sucked, they went ahead thinking they could drum up enough money to cover the difference. Bigger mistake.

Then the Hotel found out and asked for ALL of their money, now, saturday night. The con organizers folded like wet tissue. They con was basically taken over by the media guys, but by then we were past the critical point. Anyone with a room through the con was threatened to be evicted, which included ALL the VA's, unless they could pay out of pocket. All the airfare went to the hotel, so the VA's had to pay again. The fund drive was to get the VA's home, and I hope it was successful. I understand anyone with a room reserved through the con, and I'm not sure who did and didn't count, had to pay full price. Like yours truly. Oh, and if I didn't pay, they would have evicted me and charged me anyway. Yeah. Thanks, Rivera.

The tragedy is the con itself was pretty enjoyable. Oh, I had an emotional dive Friday afternoon at the concert, but once I got past that, Saturday was good. With a little panel improvement for writers and artists, it would have been even better.

So yes... the lesson is... if your con counts on having 1000 attendees, and you only get 600, don't continue on gambling on the 400 to materialize out of nowhere. You'll go bust... big time.

My brethren want to know two things:

-Why did you come to 4chan's /mlp/ FOE thread? I know you couldn't post on the forum for whichever reason you had, but to be able to search the thread out and then post what you did raised a hell of a lot of eyebrows. Thankfully you came when the thread was quiet and the fact you were so unexpected and unconfirmed for really being you got you off lightly. Still, they're confused and asked me to ask what was up with going there. (Yes, they actually call me out to ask this stuff and it's happened before... always when I'm asleep, too.)

-Do you ever plan to come back to give them the information that you said about beforehand? Now, personally I don't think you should ever go back there because you need a skin that's a lot thicker than you have to shrug off some of the more casual things that tend to come out of 4chan, though since you're so high profile, you'd have to have even thicker skin unless you're Fuzzy.
Even if you've vowed never to go back again, they'd like to know what was going on and to be honest, I would too.
Someone who can easily be emotionally hurt (like yourself) who has low confidence (like yourself) and is such a high profile person amongst the community (like yourself) should always be very wary about going somewhere like that because it'd only end in bad things, so I'm curious as to why you did too.

[Kippershy]

1. /b/ is not 4chan
2. /b/ is not 4chan
3. raids, "anonymous", half of the trolling, half of the shitposting and over half of the bad shit you hear about 4chan is from /b/. /b/ is a single board filled with anarchist kiddies who have yet to grow up. "the internet hate machine" is the tag /b/ earned from CNN or FOX NEWS if I remember correctly for their media trolling.
5. the great Jimmy Russell shootings was the last funny thing /b/ did as a collective
6. /mlp/ isn't trolls and shit spam like you all assume it is
7. If it wasn't for /co/ none of you would have any of this. Maybe one or two people would watch with children, but /co/ made the fandom at all possible.
8. The people in the FOE threads have their own opinions and they're as valid as anyone else's. They simply have a lot less tolerance for what they consider to be acceptable.

[Caoimhe]

4chan seems to be nerds who love memes and ironically using hate speech and doing really immature stuff under the shield of anonymity. There was some of that stuff in that very thread. I wouldn't call it a thick/thin skin thing but mostly how much annoyance you're willing to put up. Doesn't appeal to me. Those dudes in that forum may say some interesting stuff but I'm never gonna read it there.

Much like reddit with the whole child pornography thing, even though the users may not necessarily support it, I'm not going there based on the fact that the people that run it either condone or ignore the reprehensible shit that goes on there by some people and don't do anything about it under the guise of free speech.

Like it or not, other more mature forums exist for discussing pony, so there's no need for any of those dudes to stay there (and really, why bother if there's a place to identify yourself at like this forum).

[nebulous]

Hey Somber, just dropping by to say: I love the latest chapter, love how the story is going, look forward to seeing the stuff you have planned Vitiosus and think he's pretty rad, and found the Shattered Hoof scene to be amazingly good. (And the Celestia assassination didn't make sense in the original F:E, and your adjustment made it make sense, imo.)

On another note, the name of the largest known galaxy in real life is... IC 1101.

[Kippershy]

Oh, not saying it hasn't got more than its fair share of immaturity and it DEFINITELY is 96% geeks on all boards except /fit/ and maybe /diy/.
However, to sum up 4chan in general from what you've heard about /b/ is a terrible thing to do, especially as a /g/entleman and a horsefucker ponyfag.

They stay there because of a few reasons:

1. It's well known and generates a lot of traffic, leading into:
2. It's easy to post there. No sign up, easy to come and go as you please. They probably are signed up elsewhere too, but the ability to post pictures with posts is damn handy.
3. High profile people like Fuzzy go there
4. it has so much more than simple FOE talk
5. other little reasons
6. Honestly, they prefer the atmosphere and part of me doesn't blame them

[Guest]

@Kipper
If you want my honest guess, I'd say it's a sort of self-destructive behavior. When we're down, we often tend to seek out things that will make us feel worse, I've found. None of us are ultimately logical, rational creatures.

I could be wrong in this instance, though! And god knows I am not a trained psychologist (if I was, I'd know not to guess about things like this).

Regarding the chan, everyone's entitled to their opinion, and to express it how they wish. The natural corollary to that is that I feel free to judge people for how they choose to do the latter. I'd like to think I'm pretty forgiving about it, but I must admit, I do judge people on it.

[Kippershy]

Well first of all, I'd like to thank you for not just shouting: "4CHAN IS FULL OF EVIL, EVIL PEOPLE AND INTERNET HATE MACHINE AND I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT I'M ON ABOUT BECAUSE SMALL MINORITY!"
(Which for the record, even /b/ isn't entirely evil. Mostly spam actually.)

Secondly, a proper response from me:
It probably is something like that. I know when I was depressed I always did go to places that would only make me feel worse (both IRL and on the internet) because it was what I knew.
4chan can be harsh on people at times, but generally it's more about openness and honesty because you're not truly accountable for what you say.

You're still responsible, but accountable? Not unless the admins want to hunt you down or you make a name for yourself in a big way.
I know it isn't the best place for anyone who actually creates their own content (stories, music or art) to go if they're high profile or just starting out, but if you can handle some flak then you can rest assured you'll get much more honest answers because no-one feels obliged to be any friendlier to you and most won't be assholes to the extreme.
Sure, you get some people being a little nastier from time to time, but not often or by much.

[Stringtheory]

I really don't understand the -chan format, as well as reddit, plus I avoid those places because I want to retain what little productivity I have

[Ketchup]

Anonymity can also lead to proving the GIFT, which is pretty sad.

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