Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

[Stringtheory]

If I had any requests (and maybe it's because the way my female brain works), I'd like a little more detail into what exactly the various settings look like. I can't help but imagine every place BJ and crew wander into is either sparse as fuck desert or dense buildings around a main street. Maybe I'm just being weird but sometimes the brief area descriptions don't cut it always for me. I had a little trouble figuring out how 'underground' we went in the last chapter and there was a part where it seemed like Our Heroes were far away observing everything going on in the base and then right there.

I have to agree with this (and I'm not female), it does seem in hindsight that the environments don't seem very detailed, I have that same empty desert or dense town placeholder images often playing through my head, that last chapter was confusing setting wise

[jacky2734]

Well, the Rangers were warned about the virus. I would assume they would check everything before consuming it, considering the consequences.

That's the thing though. They were warned that it had been infected, but they were never warned that there might not be a way to remove the virus from the system. The fact that we haven't heard anything from The AJ Rangers since Blackjack told them about 99 also doesn't bode well.

[OneMoreDaySK]

Details like the actual chapter number and the name of the place escape me right now but it was where Blackjack ended up throwing up glass over that poor zebra. The zebra where there looking for the phoenix talisman because they didn't know it was passed onto Twist during the war and is now in Rampage.

Oh god my brain is failing. I'm forgetting names....

Chapter 42 - Reaper, closer to the end. They were at Yellow River Detainment Camp. Zebra was nameless.

[Snipehamster]

While I'm not able to keep up a meaningful conversation right now (posting on my phone), I really don't appreciate being told to (paraphrased) shut up and stop complaining, Silentcarto. I am substantiating my criticisms and offering suggestions with the intention of improving things.

In addition, I don't think comparing the Legate's regeneration to waterbending helps him at all.

Wash's death, appropriate or not, hit hard and maintained the scene's tension and drama by demonstrating that nobody was safe. Not every death needs to be a drawn-out, angsty, meaningful affair. Likewise, if characters shrug off their suffering over and over again that suffering becomes gratuitous and stale.

I didn't really expect Sunset to get away with Glory. There's far too much going on to cram in a 'damsel in distress' subplot at this point.

[Harmony Ltd.]

...To paraphrase and reformat per Ray Bradbury...

I think you mean George Orwell.

[Mister Nikel]

This discussion about the legates source of power cracks me up.
Should we perhaps bring up"that"again?
Or let it die and be forgotten until the part in the story where it matters?

[Derpmind]

mat·ter [mat-er] noun
1.The substance or substances of which any physical object consists or is composed: the matter of which the earth is made.
2. Physical or corporeal substance in general, whether solid, liquid, or gaseous, especially as distinguished from incorporeal substance, as spirit or mind, or from qualities, actions, and the like.
3. Something that occupies space.
4. A particular kind of substance: coloring matter.
5. A situation, state, affair, or business: a trivial matter

6. Whatever the buck we want to bucking talk about.

[Mister Nikel]

I was actually referring to the Legate spoilers but whatever.

[Derpmind]

I was actually referring to the Legate spoilers but whatever.

Any excuse for a good joke.

[FeatherDust]

Another thing that came up in my review (working on editing and formatting it), what was up with the exchange regarding the phoenix talisman? I'd expect BJ to yell out that the Legate couldn't possibly have one, but then he knew what is was and, apparently, had prevented BJ from getting one of her own?

What? Where did I miss this? When were they part of that sub-plot?

I think, my reading of that, was that he doesn't know that Rampage is the Phoenix. The last he knew was they recovered Shuuja's body at Yellow River and the talisman was already gone, two centuries since.

There is no existing record of Shuuja transferring that thing to Twist. We saw it happen in Rampage's living memory, but at the time, the Phoenix Talisman was considered lost.

The Legate thought that was why BJ was at Yellow River. It was actually just curiosity, but he figures she went there to become immortal, and failed.

[FeatherDust]

This discussion about the legates source of power cracks me up.
Should we perhaps bring up"that"again?
Or let it die and be forgotten until the part in the story where it matters?

...YOU can let it die and be forgotten, if you want.
I'm curious about it, I want to talk about it, and it isn't at all critical of the writing team's work, so... yeah. I'm going to talk about it.
I don't really feel like entertaining the question of whether what I'm curious about "matters" or not.

Wow! Easy there! You misread his post.

"Should we perhaps bring up[the legate spoiler] again? Or let [the spoiler] die and be forgotten until the part in the story where [canon information about the legate's power source] matters?"

[FeatherDust]

The entire food processing plant of 99 was infected with that virus. If the AJ Rangers get that up and running and use it, than we could be looking at Power Armor Toting Cannibal Raiders.

I would think that if anything can kill the virus, a long bath in chlorine would do it.

Frankly, there are a lot of infectious agents in the real world that will survive any amount of scrubbing with soap and water but can't handle a quick bleaching.

[Snipehamster]

Broadly speaking (setting aside a few things that might be nitpicked at or clarified - I'll go into detail if asked) I think Stable 99 (before, during and after its fall) has been one of the best parts of PH so far.

@/mlp/: I lurk, but generally don't post, on imageboards. I have a tendency to rant, ramble and obsessively edit my posts, which doesn't really work under chan format. But if anyone wants to chat I spend much of my time lurking #FalloutEquestria on IRC.

[Kippershy]

I'll hit 'em up and let them know for you, Snipe.

[FeatherDust]

Yeah, a few pages back, believe it was right after the post about what had gone on at Unicon.

A lot of us are avoiding reading it so as not to get spoiled.

[O. Hinds]

Yeah, a few pages back, believe it was right after the post about what had gone on at Unicon.

A lot of us are avoiding reading it so as not to get spoiled.

No, it was before he left for Unicon, IIRC.

[Train Dodger]

Frankly, there are a lot of infectious agents in the real world that will survive any amount of scrubbing with soap and water but can't handle a quick bleaching.

If the raider disease is prion-based, as it appears to be, then chlorine fumigation won't work. The only way to get rid of the disease is by using a combination of enough heat and lye to effectively destroy whatever it was that was contaminated with it in the first place.

[SilentCarto]

I just dunno if we are looking at ultimate levels of zebra alchemy or ultimate levels of zebra cyberization.

Well, given that he's got blatant alchemical augs, and given that they're incompatible with cyber augs...

...To paraphrase and reformat per Ray Bradbury...

I think you mean George Orwell.

Yes. That.

[FeatherDust]

You were thinking of Fahrenheit 451.

[OneMoreDaySK]

Yeah, a few pages back, believe it was right after the post about what had gone on at Unicon.

A lot of us are avoiding reading it so as not to get spoiled.

Hmm, I seemed to miss that as well. Is it that much of a story breaker to know? Don't tell me what is is though. I'd prefer to find out in the actual story.

[FeatherDust]

If the raider disease is prion-based, as it appears to be, then chlorine fumigation won't work.

Ah... that isn't actually what the article says.

The decontamination methods that have shown significant activity against prions include extended steam sterilization in conjunction with 1M sodium hypochlorite or sodium hypochlorite (2% available chlorine).

Sodium hypochlorite dissolved in water is chlorine bleach. 1M refers to the concentration of bleach to water; in this case 1 mol (75 grams*) per liter, which is only slightly stronger than off-the-shelf Clorox at 0.88 mol/liter.

A cloud of chlorine will have a great deal MORE than 2% available chlorine, it's just insanely hazardous to work with. (It's logical that chlorine would work well on a prion; a prion is a protein that is folded in a very specific way. If a chlorine comes by and rips a few hydrogens off the protein's edges, it'll change the fold pattern and turn a disease causing protein into just another flake of organic matter.) And while they don't have heating, the long duration of the treatment ought to make up for that nicely.


* A mol of a substance is basically a number of grams of the material equal to the molecule's total atomic weight. A mol of hydrogen weighs 1.06 grams; a mol of helium weighs about 4 grams, etc. Because of the way atoms work, a mol is always the same number of molecules -- 6.02x10^23 -- no matter what substance you're working with. This makes the math a lot easier for chemists.

[jacky2734]

If the raider disease is prion-based, as it appears to be, then chlorine fumigation won't work.

Ah... that isn't actually what the article says.

The decontamination methods that have shown significant activity against prions include extended steam sterilization in conjunction with 1M sodium hypochlorite or sodium hypochlorite (2% available chlorine).

1M refers to the concentration of bleach to water; in this case 1 mol (75 grams*) per liter, which is only slightly stronger than off-the-shelf Clorox at .88 mol/liter.

Sodium hypochlorite is chlorine bleach. A cloud of chlorine will have a great deal MORE than 2% available chlorine, it's just insanely hazardous to work with. (It's logical that chlorine would work well on a prion; a prion is a protein that is folded in a very specific way. If a chlorine comes by and rips a few hydrogens off the protein's edges, it'll change the fold pattern and turn a disease causing protein into just another flake of organic matter.) And while they don't have heating, the long duration of the treatment ought to make up for that nicely.


* A mol of a substance is basically a number of grams of the material equal to the molecule's total atomic weight. A mol of hydrogen weighs 1.06 grams; a mol of helium weighs about 4 grams, etc. Because of the way atoms work, a mol is always the same number of molecules -- 6.02x10^23 -- no matter what substance you're working with. This makes the math a lot easier for chemists.

You forget to consider that there might be a mystical element to the virus.

[FeatherDust]

You forget to consider that there might be a mystical element to the virus.

No, I didn't, there's just no point speculating about that. Are you familiar with the term "a wizard did it"? A 'mystical element' could mean literally anything; an author can justify any behavior, immunity, or even weakness* by saying there's a 'mystical element' to the disease. As soon as you assume the disease is made out of magic, all discussion comes to an end, because it could do anything, no longer bounded by any set of rules.

So, for the purpose of the discussion, we'll assume it's a prion and treat it as such.


* For example, the disease might be vulnerable to laughter or the color puce.

Hmm, I seemed to miss [the spoiler] as well. Is it that much of a story breaker to know? Don't tell me what is is though. I'd prefer to find out in the actual story.

I dunno, if you don't wanna read it, don't read it. It's a pretty big reveal, I think, so I'd recommend not reading it.

[WovenTales]

You forget to consider that there might be a mystical element to the virus.

No, I didn't, there's just no point speculating about that. Are you familiar with the term "a wizard did it"? A 'mystical element' could mean literally anything; an author can justify any behavior, immunity, or even weakness* by saying there's a 'mystical element' to the disease. As soon as you assume the disease is made out of magic, all discussion comes to an end, because it could do anything, no longer bounded by any set of rules.

So, for the purpose of the discussion, we'll assume it's a prion and treat it as such.


* For example, the disease might be vulnerable to laughter or the color puce.

It's not that all discussion necessarily has to come to an end, it's just that we'd need as much detailed information on how magic works in the universe as we could get. Since the only thing we know in both MLP and FoE are some high-level rules (and even those aren't definite), I do agree that in this case we'd be better off sticking to discussions based in our world. Just keep in mind that Equestria ultimately has a slightly different ruleset, so anything we come up with is only a rough approximation.

Hmm, I seemed to miss [the spoiler] as well. Is it that much of a story breaker to know? Don't tell me what is is though. I'd prefer to find out in the actual story.

I dunno, if you don't wanna read it, don't read it. It's a pretty big reveal, I think, so I'd recommend not reading it.

It gave us what could be a medium-level plot point (though I think I remember a similar theory or two floating around a bit earlier) and some backstory. I don't think it's anything that would hurt the story to know, more just give the eventual reveal less impact. Nothing like saying how the story or plot arc is going to end, or even whether one of the party members is going to leave.

Spoiler for different topic:

[Train Dodger]

Sodium hypochlorite dissolved in water is chlorine bleach. 1M refers to the concentration of bleach to water; in this case 1 mol (75 grams*) per liter, which is only slightly stronger than off-the-shelf Clorox at 0.88 mol/liter.

A cloud of chlorine will have a great deal MORE than 2% available chlorine, it's just insanely hazardous to work with. (It's logical that chlorine would work well on a prion; a prion is a protein that is folded in a very specific way. If a chlorine comes by and rips a few hydrogens off the protein's edges, it'll change the fold pattern and turn a disease causing protein into just another flake of organic matter.) And while they don't have heating, the long duration of the treatment ought to make up for that nicely.

Hmm, that's true. Free elemental chlorine is highly reactive, and in such high concentrations, it might not matter if it's a particularly oxidizing compound of chlorine or not.

However, the disease-causing agent was in sealed steel vessels in the recycling system, and the gas is not likely to have penetrated those. That's the part I'm worried about.

[StoneSlinger88]

It might've gotten in the recycling system-- after all, they were eating the chips, so somepony must've been working it. And after, I doubt the infected ponies would've had the sense to properly seal the machine up. I might be an optimist (probably a bad thing when speculating), but if they were left open the machine might've taken in the gas, or had chlorine mix itself with whatever vat they used to make the chips, running it through the system.

[OneMoreDaySK]

Hey, just had a thought, which tribe(s) does DBZebra and the CyberLegion come from? Did they all come from the warrior tribe, or are they an assortment of tribal members that all got upgraded Cybermen style?

Re: Stable 99 cleansing
I would think that the place being filled with chlorine would deter the rangers from utilizing any of the facilities until the whole place is purged. Possibly with fire, considering all the corpses about. What a terrifying story that would be, in the eyes of Crumpets seeing a more recently massacred stable. Then there would have to be that one idiot that decides not to follow orders, and gets infected and has to be put down.

[Sindri]

The Cyberzebras are referred to as Brood of Coyotl... we've seen them in great numbers whenever they've appeared and they seem to be used mostly as disposable shock troops, giving me the impression that they're mass-produced or something. But it's not clear yet if they're just made out of normal zebras in great numbers, or all come from one tribe, or if they're literally off a production line with the organic parts being cloned or something. Maybe they went all 40K on it and built them out of the corpses of fallen zebra soldiers (with healing talismans explaining how they aren't all horribly scarred or something?)?

As for 99 and the plague, I doubt the Rangers will have much trouble with it. The Steel Rangers are one of the most advanced groups in the wasteland, and they've been adequately warned. They wouldn't eat anything that came out of the Stable until it was properly tested, and if the chlorine didn't sterilize things adequately they would do it themselves. The Stable ponies only got caught because they were stupid; they didn't want to believe there was a real threat from the corpses, they didn't like Blackjack, and they'd been conditioned from birth to recycle everything and trust the machines for centuries.

Also apparently I get significantly more brohoofs in three days of refraining from posting than in two average weeks.
...I'll just not read too much into that, shall I?

[Mister Nikel]

Cyberzebras are either mass produced robots or robotized Zebras. From what we know they are soulless and lack true sentience. Limits of their intelligence are unknown beyond that.

Back during the Twist and Shuja flashback we learned that most of the first legion was replaced with them. The old Legate and the remaining members did not recognize them as the old members of their legion and called them creepy strangers who never talked or ate.

It's hard to say if they are factory produced or using zebra bodies as a carcass for all the tech in them. If they are factory made then what the heck are all the fleshy bits even for? And if they are robotized Zebras why did their comrades not recognize them? We need some details about that.

And the legate

LEGATE SPOILERS:

[Sindri]

The old Legate and the remaining members did not recognize them as the old members of their legion and called them creepy strangers who never talked or ate.

It's hard to say if they are factory produced or using zebra bodies as a carcass for all the tech in them. If they are factory made then what the heck are all the fleshy bits even for? And if they are robotized Zebras why did their comrades not recognize them? We need some details about that.

Okay, forgot the bit about never eating. So yeah, definitely robots wrapped in meat rather than normal zebras with chrome inside. Which leads to the twin questions of how and why.

The why only makes sense for infiltration (which we never saw them used for and they would kinda suck at), or if there was a serious shortage of robot parts or a serious excess of fleshy bodies, such that it's cheaper or gives you more forces to modify organics instead of making fully synthetic units.

This might imply that the Brood were designed to be "built" behind enemy lines, where you wouldn't have the resources to construct traditional robots but might be able to carry in cyberparts. It might also imply a connection to Hippocratic, since Blanks are the only source I can think of for fresh bodies that wouldn't be significantly less efficient or more expensive. Then there's the name; Brood of Coyotl would be easiest to interpret as children of Coyote, a traditional trickster/Meddler spirit, so there's almost certainly a connection to Discord. Meaning that either full Blanks or large quantities of Ichor were probably being smuggled out to zebras... and unless that smuggling went a long way, the Brood were all grown/built within the Hoof.

Anyway, if they are using Blanks that explains a lot of things. Like why they used chrome instead of alchemy to modify them; I doubt you'd get much of a soldier out of a Blank even on the best of chems, but once you make them into an organic robot the lack of drive doesn't matter anymore; they're programmed to fight effectively. And why we didn't see these cheap disposable shock troops used elsewhere; even if they could be made outside the Hoof you'd be revealing your sources if they were frequent enough for the Equestrians to investigate them properly. Speaking of things you can't afford for Equestria to find out about, that chrome might imply a connection to Project Steelpony since we haven't heard anything about zebras developing cybernetics before; I suspect many amusing answers would come out if you dragged a Brood corpse back to the Professor.

We may be looking at an army specifically invented to destroy the Hoof; they sneak in a good team of leaders and techs, use local resources to make a huge number of disposable forces, and exterminate everything in their way before the survivors can get enough data out to cut off those resources.

And the legate

LEGATE SPOILERS:

Legate things:

[Sponsored content]