Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

[RoboRed]

Oh holy fuck, I am about one second away from just posting everything and not caring. I have no clue why the massive wraparound spoiler for the whole thing isn't working.

[RoboRed]

FINALLY.

And now, onwards to replies...I did put some constructive stuff in here, and took heavy advantage of spoiler tags to at least make it readable and not a mess of text.

Warning: Contents under extreme pressure!:

Dear god, I wish I had actual, constructive stuff ready all the time to add like some of you guys.

[Moodyman90]

But Robo, I loved the original version. It was so broken for me that your signature was pushed over to the side of the screen and your name and avi was where your signature was suppose to be haha.

[Cptadder]

Still need to read page 17 and 18, tomorrow over breakfast I think. Skimmed them enough to see this and had to post the rest of my thoughts.

Thanks very much for the comments. I was very nervous about the Psalm dream and had concerns it would be one more instance of PH being 'revisionist sue fic'. That's the last thing I wanted.

Yeah, from me your going to get it. PH is 'revisionist sue fic' because of the complete 180 of the scene. You want to tell a story? Fine and dandy, want to tell one within the FoE -verse that's created over one hundred subfanfics and you own the longest running and most wordy of the bunch fine. Take something as central to FoE as Shattered Hoof and totally turn things on its head and yes expect gripes. Expect six pages of gripes, expect well researched and possibly even insightful ten page long dissertations on the themes of FoE and how they are present in Project Horizon.

And how the re-write of Shattered Hoof breaks with the key ideal of FoE. That of how pastel colored ponies who know only peace, love and friendship can in twenty years go from those higher ideals to ending the world. Shattered Hoof is one of the defining steps on that path. That hoof was placed on the path way back when the old Cesar died and relationships deteriorated between Equestria and the next Cesar. Then the hostage situation, then the war, the long drawn out conflict then the two major turning points... Littlehorn and Shattered Hoof.

Somber your handling of Littehorn I find perfectly acceptable, there was a school... there were refugees and the schools defenses opened up on the refugees and the pink cloud bomb was used forever branding that horrible alchemical weapon of mass destruction the Littlehorn agent. Your handling of it was fine and despite the fact that Pslam and Goldenblood were both there such things can be accepted even expected.

But a few years later after that first great turning point from war over resources to war because they hate us the second big turning point occurs. That being Shattered Hoof and the death of Big Mac and subsequent painting of every single Zebra as akin to the devil. Why do Zebras only lie? Because the Ministry of Image and Moral says so... they tried to kill Celestia the living embodiment of the sun, joy, happiness and the good things in this world and some Zebra tried to shoot her. What else won't they try? Better be good little foal or wicked Zebras will come to steal you away... you know they tried to kill the Princess don't you?

Back in comment threads Kkatt directly described the death of Big Mac as a JFK moment. The long drawn out procession, the surprise gunshot and then the panic and terror. Except in this world Big Mac took the bullet meant for Celestia and died instantly. No long drawn out combat, no surprise twist, nothing. Not to say there is no room for a pony to take that shot but there's a far difference between a pony assassin and a sudden pitched battle.

I've got even more to say but, I have work in the morning and two more pages to read of comments. Most likely three by then.

[RoboRed]

But Robo, I loved the original version. It was so broken for me that your signature was pushed over to the side of the screen and your name and avi was where your signature was suppose to be haha.

It was so broken, half of everything got pushed to the right side of the post window.

Ugh...thank god I got that figured out.

[tylertoon2]

Still need to read page 17 and 18, tomorrow over breakfast I think. Skimmed them enough to see this and had to post the rest of my thoughts.

Thanks very much for the comments. I was very nervous about the Psalm dream and had concerns it would be one more instance of PH being 'revisionist sue fic'. That's the last thing I wanted.

Yeah, from me your going to get it. PH is 'revisionist sue fic' because of the complete 180 of the scene. You want to tell a story? Fine and dandy, want to tell one within the FoE -verse that's created over one hundred subfanfics and you own the longest running and most wordy of the bunch fine. Take something as central to FoE as Shattered Hoof and totally turn things on its head and yes expect gripes. Expect six pages of gripes, expect well researched and possibly even insightful ten page long dissertations on the themes of FoE and how they are present in Project Horizon.

And how the re-write of Shattered Hoof breaks with the key ideal of FoE. That of how pastel colored ponies who know only peace, love and friendship can in twenty years go from those higher ideals to ending the world. Shattered Hoof is one of the defining steps on that path. That hoof was placed on the path way back when the old Cesar died and relationships deteriorated between Equestria and the next Cesar. Then the hostage situation, then the war, the long drawn out conflict then the two major turning points... Littlehorn and Shattered Hoof.

Somber your handling of Littehorn I find perfectly acceptable, there was a school... there were refugees and the schools defenses opened up on the refugees and the pink cloud bomb was used forever branding that horrible alchemical weapon of mass destruction the Littlehorn agent. Your handling of it was fine and despite the fact that Pslam and Goldenblood were both there such things can be accepted even expected.

But a few years later after that first great turning point from war over resources to war because they hate us the second big turning point occurs. That being Shattered Hoof and the death of Big Mac and subsequent painting of every single Zebra as akin to the devil. Why do Zebras only lie? Because the Ministry of Image and Moral says so... they tried to kill Celestia the living embodiment of the sun, joy, happiness and the good things in this world and some Zebra tried to shoot her. What else won't they try? Better be good little foal or wicked Zebras will come to steal you away... you know they tried to kill the Princess don't you?

Back in comment threads Kkatt directly described the death of Big Mac as a JFK moment. The long drawn out procession, the surprise gunshot and then the panic and terror. Except in this world Big Mac took the bullet meant for Celestia and died instantly. No long drawn out combat, no surprise twist, nothing. Not to say there is no room for a pony to take that shot but there's a far difference between a pony assassin and a sudden pitched battle.

I've got even more to say but, I have work in the morning and two more pages to read of comments. Most likely three by then.

Adder makes a lot of good points here and he has me swayed.

The more I think about it the less it makes sense. I'm secretly hoping that this is explained away as all a dream. I know Somber is trying to build a very tragic character for Pslam and role with the whole Zebra curse thing, but there are other ways to do it than changing an integral theme.

[jacky2734]

Quick question for O.hinds

Spoiler:

[AGurdel]

Adder makes a lot of good points here and he has me swayed.

The more I think about it the less it makes sense. I'm secretly hoping that this is explained away as all a dream. I know Somber is trying to build a very tragic character for Pslam and role with the whole Zebra curse thing, but there are other ways to do it than changing an integral theme.

Pinkie's assassination could be undone this way, but Big Mac's death is confimed by Dealer/Echo. I don't now if I will ever read other stories in the FoE universe (dont have the time atm), but Somber's explanation for Pinkie's and BM's death won't be included in my headcanon.

[WavemasterRyx]

@Sindri - My "feelings" are about as reliable as my theories.

@OAC - Thank you very much, and I'm sorry you were having so much trouble, I hope you're feeling better.

@RoboRed - Thank you as well, I'm glad that you enjoyed all the pictures.



Well, at least it's not quite as late as usual, but this commentary turned out really short. Honestly it's because I barely felt like writing it other than for Somber, since coming to this forum has been decreasingly enjoyable.

I did enjoy the chapter, Somber, so thank you very much for writing it. And thank you Hinds, Bronode, and Snipe as always for your hard work in helping bring us this story.

Chapter 54 Commentary:

[Guest]

Lengthier commentary on various moments. Also, another
song for the chapter.

Spoilered for Length:

@Ryx
Thanks, I'm much better now. :) The trucks are coming again, but I slept from like 4 to 12 in the afternoon instead of eating, so I'm all set. Also, if you don't mind my asking, is there anything I/we can do to keep you visiting here? Communities are like any relationship, after all, and they take work to make them, uh... work. And stuff. Anyway, point is, how can I help? You can PM if you want to discuss it privately, too, it sends me an e-mail when I get one so I don't miss it. :)

[Mister Nikel]

Killing the legate huh?...

First thing a fitting theme for more impact and considering the translation of his name...



Let's look over what we know about him again:

1)He has a dragon bone mail that gets slight scratch marks from 50ca rounds fired from two Brauning m20's. Said dragon mail doesn't budge from 120mm mortars being detonated at point blank either. Hydraulic power hooves made from carbon steel shatter against it from a few blows. The only saving grace is that it does not cover his whole body.

2)He has super strength. Not Goliath super strength. Not a pack of bloodhounds bringing down a building super strength. He has Littlepip's telekinesis at end of FO:E kind of super strength times ten. Catching 120 mm tank mortars with bare hooves at point blank. Nuff said.

3)Every inch of his armor and body are covered in glyphs and runes for possibly every kind of combat situation. They also may or may not be the source of his...

4) Control of the elements. This guy is the Avatar. Not the crappy blue alien thing either. The real deal. We saw two elements. Chances are he has all four. He can overturn tanks with a single stomp. Also condense air in a particular area enough to crush a cyberpony with it's pressure.

5)Unlimited XS Rank healing factor and magic resistance. He had his head cut off and it healed before it could fall off. He had his head cut off by a soul devouring sword made from Tokomare fragments. He did not flinch.

6)And the big one. We have yet to see his weird double bladed dragon staff/sword/whatever the hell it's supposed to be. Which is probably every single bit as OP as the rest of his gear and him.

My recommendation? Find something that can kill Rampage first. And then.

1)Strip armor.
2)Disintegrate.
3)Use whatever can kill Rampage on the talisman.

This guy would tank balefire bombs like a pro for all we know. This guy is cartoonishly overpowered. This power creep is crazy. Somber is crazy.

[Cptadder]

Still need to read 17 and 18 so I'll return to another issue. Our new big bad the Legate and I'll use Professional Wrestling to explain the misstep here.

First some definition of terms

Face(Baby face)-A good guy wrestler, one who is presented heroically and appears to do good things in and out of the ring. A Face is not just a good guy because they obey the rules but because they act how you expect a good person to act, they are the people your supposed to root for in the match.
Heel - A bad wrestler, one who is presented as villainous, one who cheats, lies and pulls dirty tricks. The Heel is the wrestler your supposed to be rooting against.
Sell/No Sell- In wrestling lots of moves look like they hurt a lot more than they do. Selling involves acting like it a clothesline to the face hurts a lot more than it does. No selling is the reverse where you shrug it off like it was nothing.

Wiki has a longer list here

The reason why I define those terms real quickly is because of this matchup between the Legate and Blackjack and Co.
So we have to set up the Legate as dangerous and his first act is to literally take on the entirety Team Blackjack and no sell everything. He gets tank blasted, machine gun fire is just an annoyance, and he takes a sword to the throat and tosses off one liners. Here is our newest Heel to come fight Team Blackjack and he tears through them. Further Blackjack loses cleanly despite the help of her friends and the only reason for a lack of game over is because of the bizarre decision of the Legate because... he said so?

The Legate has no other place to go, sure we could see him tear about 100 raiders with two hooves tied behind his back and a bucket on his head, but we already know he can take on a tank and five high level badass and our main character with ease. In terms of selling us on how dangerous the Legate, there is literally no place to go with him. If Blackjack becomes dangerous enough to go one on one with the Legate then you can only start throwing gods at her because everything else short of giant Mecha won't be able to compare.

So in his fight Legate demonstrated command over all the elements making him the Avatar/More Magic than any Unicorn. He also demonstrated great healing putting him on the level with Rampage or a homunculus. And he demonstrated gravity control putting him on par with.. lets say Gordon Freeman.

Point is his introduction was so strong and his character so flat there is no place to go with him. He's uninteresting.... he's Sombra bad.
Thanks go to Nikel for listing all of his super powers.

Somber the Legate offers no build up. No hints at his power, no mention of his presence, no previous amazing feats or running across what he's done. He just shows up and bam Legate Smash.

[Sindri]

Killing the legate huh?...
Let's look over what we know about him again:

You're looking at his powers, when you need to be looking at his weak points.

He caught a 120mm shell. He did not simply stand and tank it, implying that the direct impact and/or the explosion from less than a leg-length away would harm him.

His armor cracked, and he lost several pieces, under Rampage's assault. This means that his gear is highly resistant to blunt force trauma, but not immune, and between the material and the runes it's almost certainly a source of some of his power.

He blocked a hail of .50 rounds with his hooves, rather than letting them hit his face, meaning that a) his attention can be diverted by enough simultaneous attacks and b) heavy enough gunfire is at least painful or inconvenient, if not a serious threat.

He can be blinded, he can be tricked, he can be trapped, and he can be cut. His powers cover a wide range and much be accounted for, but they are finite.

The real sticking point is his regeneration; he's faster than Rampage and there's nothing to indicate he has more limitations. But if you can't deal with regeneration after getting past his other defenses, you either aren't trying or you aren't nearly cold enough.
Classic methods include: putting his core in a cage smaller than his regenerated body, settling him in one of many sources of continual damage like high end acid or eternal flame, placing large and unpleasant objects inside his skull and chest cavity while he regenerates... The trick is dealing damage fast enough to outpace his regen while you set up a longer-term solution.

He's an incredibly tough opponent. Blackjack and co with their current power set might not be able to pull it off. You need to survive his attacks long enough to chip away at his gear, and then once he's unarmored pour on constant massive damage until you get his cage set up, preferably from many different sources (whether Deus ever runs out of ammo is an important question). But it definitely can be done. If it has hit points, we can if not kill it at least incapacitate for an indefinite duration; the trick is surviving long enough to finish the job.

Early tests you need to conduct involve stretching the limits of his elemental control, particularly of sea and earth (since you'll need things that might be considered variants on those for the final containment protocols). Lightning is almost irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, but his pressure trick is also a puzzlement. Ideal ground for the final battle would be in vacuum, but that's likely not an option. Testing prior to capture may be troublesome given difficulty in locating target and probable high mortality rate among anyone other than Blackjack and Rampage who attempts to engage before sufficient information is compiled. Research is another possible avenue; Lancer's loyalties might be softening but his hatred of Blackjack far outstrips any progress there. I believe we need to speak to Sekashi about her former husband.

But seriously, this guy isn't even Keter-class.

[Sindri]

The Legate has no other place to go, sure we could see him tear about 100 raiders with two hooves tied behind his back and a bucket on his head, but we already know he can take on a tank and five high level badass and our main character with ease. In terms of selling us on how dangerous the Legate, there is literally no place to go with him. If Blackjack becomes dangerous enough to go one on one with the Legate then you can only start throwing gods at her because everything else short of giant Mecha won't be able to compare.

He doesn't need to go up in power; he's been building for centuries and thus pretty much peaked. He doesn't need to go up in apparent threat level because he's already vying with Dawn for the top of the curb-stomp tier. And you seem to be forgetting that Blackjack's taken down giant mecha before, and Littlepip killed a Goddess at significantly lower level.

Point is his introduction was so strong and his character so flat there is no place to go with him. He's uninteresting.... he's Sombra bad.

His character on the other hand has many places to go from here. Maybe or maybe not in terms of development and progression, but definitely in terms of discovery. This is his first appearance, and it raised a dozen questions for each it answered. There's far too much about him, his motivations, and his background which we do not know, and that information is almost certainly vital to stopping him.


And Sombra? No comparison whatsoever. King Sombra was described as an apocalyptic level threat but never actually acted on screen. We didn't so much as get exposition of what he was famous for in the past, he just showed up out of nowhere, was declared to be bad news on a level where everybody loses if he gets a single shot off, and then disappeared under the nonspecifically magical glow of the macguffin. He had no personality, no goals, no known powers, nothing except a scary reputation that nobody actually knew and an allergy to glowing heart-shaped rocks. The fight against him wasn't a struggle, it was a race in which the finish line was hidden, nobody else was on the track, and we never learned why we were running in the first place.

Vitiosus started as a political figure, shows up to demonstrate his powers in detail, displays a passable (if abhorrent) personality, hands out some foreshadowing and character development points to all around, drops a handful of adventure hooks, and then steps back into his recurring high-level villain slot until the endgame. He's pretty close to the exact opposite of Sombra, as villains go.

[Derpmind]

Cptadder, you're missing the point of the Shattered Hoof scene. It's not a re-write, it's meant to reframe the narrative that was given to the public as propaganda.

I don't actually ave time to make this argument, sorry, but you basically you might be coming at this from the wrong way, right? Perhaps Somber should have put some thoughts about Shattered Hoof in the chapter somewhere to make it clearer, I don't know. I have to go now, but if noone else does it I'll try and hack out and argument later.

[Guest]

How about fighting in a big ol' enervation field? In the tunnels around the Core, say, or specifically in that necropolis from way back when Glory lost her wing? You could even make one - Blackjack knows how, theoretically. Or how about just sucking out his soul (might need help for that), or invading his mind? A straight-up fight is an option, maybe, but not the only one. Take a card from Twisted Fate's deck - "Never lost a fair game... or played one."

Blackjack could also just refuse to become what he feels he must destroy. The way things are progressing, of course, that might not be an option.

[Sindri]

How about fighting in a big ol' enervation field? In the tunnels around the Core, say, or specifically in that necropolis from way back when Glory lost her wing? You could even make one - Blackjack knows how, theoretically. Or how about just sucking out his soul (might need help for that), or invading his mind? A straight-up fight is an option, maybe, but not the only one. Take a card from Twisted Fate's deck - "Never lost a fair game... or played one."

Blackjack could also just refuse to become what he feels he must destroy. The way things are progressing, of course, that might not be an option.

I like the way you think. I'd been stuck on mundane solutions, but he might not have any Enervation resistance at all...

Or if he has a deal with the Stars, he might be completely immune. Or like Rampage, who wasn't harmed but went crazier. These are things we need to run tests on.

In any case, weaponizing Enervation might count as embracing her role as Maiden. Maybe keep that as a trick up your sleeve rather than a first strike?

[Kippershy]

Captain, i'm really, really glad i'm not the only person who feels this way and even more so that you knew how to word it unlike me.

[Somber]

Sigh...

If I may interpose about the Legate...

What she needs to do is talk to Sekashi and ask about him.

[Somber]

Now... about Shattered Hoof...

How could Big Macintosh shield Celestia from an unknown sniper? Your average modern day sniper can kill from over five hundred yards. There are snipers who can kill from over a thousand if I recall wikipedia. That's five football fields away with snipers who have invisibility cloaks. So how did Big Macintosh know where the shooter was in order to block the bullet? He knew where Psalm's firing position was and interposed himself with Celestia, the only thing he had strength left to do. I always had Psalm as the betrayer of the Marauders. She's Judas, killing her commander because of what she believes she HAS to do.

It is still a sacrifice. Macintosh could have simply let Psalm kill Celestia. But he stayed loyal and dependable until the very end. He did not yield nor break. He did what was right. If Celestia had been taken, he would have lead the Marauders into the Zebra Empire to free her personally. He never would have quit on his job. So he made the choice. He wasn't shot down like a dog. He still died a hero.

Psalm, on the other hoof, did what she thought she had to do. She believed in Luna so much that killing Celestia made sense to her. It was the right thing to do. If she'd had faith in Big Macintosh, she would have dedicated herself to saving Celestia as well. But then reinforcements arrived. That's Psalm's tragedy.

I'm sorry it didn't work for you, Cpt.

[Guest]

So, I'm reading chapter 54 (I haven't finished it yet.) and while I sincerely hope this isn't the case I'm starting to think BJ, Glory, and P-21 are going to be entering a threeway relationship before the story ends.

If I may ask a question: Why is that Glory's enclave upbringing seem easier to overcome then BJ's 99 upbringing?

It's stated in FO:E that homosexual relationships were encouraged simply because they could not produce offsping (It's reiterated in this chapter. I think someone's mentioned here before that maybe with a unicorn's help it'd be possible, but considering this is the enclave I think that's irrelevant as even the Thunderhead unicorns would have no way of learning a spell like that.) So why wouldn't monogamous relationships be encouraged for the same reason?

[Kippershy]

See, thing is dude, not only does that not change what has already happened but it wasn't even hinted at by Blackjack.
yes she's the ex wife of the guy and would know all that junk, yes she was briefly mentioned by him, but that doesn't equate to Blackjack herself thinking 'shit, I know someone who knows this guy inside out' and without that, wellm this is my reaction.

what about all the readers who don't browse this place? Sure, I could tell a few that you have plans involving x y and z but that's far from the same as reading it in the story itself.
you've got to cater to us if you want us to understand like you do and without understqandong, we come to our own conclusions, good or bad.

again, im not trying to upset you, but you deserve honesty as long as its not a personal attack and my opinion of this character is very poor BUT you can't please everyone allm the time and you've got to remember that someone will always see somethingas bad. One character doesn't equate to the whole story though, not in a story like this. Not even blackjack

[O. Hinds]

-snip-

I'm sorry that you didn't like the Shattered Hoof Ridge scene (or the Legate, but I expect that he will be well explained in time, and for the moment he's supposed to be wildly out there). Honestly, FoE's version of events never sat well with me. How did Big Macintosh know exactly when and where to stand to catch a sniper bullet heading for Celestia? It's never explained. I also don't feel that the PH version breaks the lesson (though I hadn't noticed the lesson until you pointed it out); Big Macintosh's actions are still selfless, and they're still used for justification. If anything, I think that PH strengthens it; a hero performs noble and selfless actions, the truth of those actions is obscured (in large part accidentally) after his death to make them seem even better, and then those actions are used as justification.
Ah, I see that Somber's already replied.

Quick question for O.hinds

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

@Sindri - My "feelings" are about as reliable as my theories.

@OAC - Thank you very much, and I'm sorry you were having so much trouble, I hope you're feeling better.

@RoboRed - Thank you as well, I'm glad that you enjoyed all the pictures.



Well, at least it's not quite as late as usual, but this commentary turned out really short. Honestly it's because I barely felt like writing it other than for Somber, since coming to this forum has been decreasingly enjoyable.

I did enjoy the chapter, Somber, so thank you very much for writing it. And thank you Hinds, Bronode, and Snipe as always for your hard work in helping bring us this story.

Chapter 54 Commentary:

Oh, I'm sorry that you're coming to dislike this place. Might I ask why, and is there anything that I can do to help?

It's stated in FO:E that homosexual relationships were encouraged simply because they could not produce offsping (It's reiterated in this chapter. I think someone's mentioned here before that maybe with a unicorn's help it'd be possible, but considering this is the enclave I think that's irrelevant as even the Thunderhead unicorns would have no way of learning a spell like that.) So why wouldn't monogamous relationships be encouraged for the same reason?

...Why do you think that they weren't encouraged?

[Guest]

@Hinds

Well, just in the previous chapter Glory had a discussion with BJ. It's implied (Or I believe it's implied.) that she doesn't mind BJ sleeping around as long as she gets to join in. I believe that if it was enforced in the enclave she would never say that.

I'm hoping that she didn't mean that, I'm hoping that the recent loss of her mother and the strong possibility of losing her father made her even more desperate to hold onto BJ. So desperate that she would do things that would hurt herself to keep her.

The thing that keeps me from thinking that is there have been several ponies that have approached BJ and said something along the lines of P-21 loving her. There's no way this isn't going to be addressed in the story at some point. (Let me reiterate that I have not finished this chapter. I can be incredibly forgetful so I try to say things while they're are still on my mind.) And with Glory's recent admission of being attracted to P-21 I'm seeing this being addressed by them going into a relationship together.

[Mr. Snrub]

Somber you realize you have your own story to write, which has a lot of loose ends? Why do you think you need to "fix" Kkats story instead of working on your own? And by "fix" i mean shoehorn your own characters into every scene of the original, making them responsible for everything, because obviously that's something that needs to be done.

I mean, just look at other Sidefics, they seem to have no need to try and rewrite the very story they based their own on, but create their own worlds.

I fully expect people to disregard me as troll, because i said something that may offend Somber and isn´t Praise. Unfortunately i am obviously retarded, as i think Hugboxing is not a good way to help a author.

[Sindri]

If I may ask a question: Why is that Glory's enclave upbringing seem easier to overcome then BJ's 99 upbringing?

Well to start with, the Enclave encourages homosexual relationships with economic incentives and such, and limits number of children, but doesn't say that hetero sex is evil or anything. They need to limit their population for the sake of resources, but they still need the foals. Stable 99 had a very strict system where every pony was conditioned to believe that males had no desires or capabilities outside reproduction, and a culture where sex was seen as the best if not only form of entertainment and serious relationships were looked down on.

Second, ponies in this 'verse go through some variant on heat, and Glory's at the start of that cycle. No matter how lesbian she is, no matter how self controlled she is, her hormones are telling her that she's supposed to be pregnant. Normally she wouldn't act on this , but it's going to result in a slight shift in her thoughts and speech patterns just like when a human woman is ovulating or a human man gets exposed to pheromones.

Third, after her freakout over the batpony, Glory's making a conscious effort to be open-minded about Blackjack's views on sex. She hasn't decided to go along with them or anything, but she knows that they're a big part of who Blackjack currently is, likely to change slowly if ever, and she desperately wants to stay with Blackjack so pretending they aren't a thing isn't an option. It took Blackjack a good long time before she even thought about stallions being sentient, and she didn't even contemplate monogamy until that same freakout.

Also P-21 is objectively really hot.


Anyway, they didn't declare that this is a thing that will happen or anything; Blackjack's been thinking of kids eventually for a while now and hoping that Glory might be okay with being impregnated at some point in the distant future, but the topic hasn't really come up much. Glory just revealed that this might be a vague, distant possibility rather than something that just won't happen. I think that P-21 is unlikely to be comfortable with being used as breeding equipment again, but he's gone through a lot of development and recovery and there's a slim chance he might eventually be willing with a mare who was a good enough friend. And I've always seen the relationship between P-21 and Blackjack as an entirely different kind of love from the conventional romantic/sexual flavor, but I could be wrong or that could shift.

[Guest]

Sindri, you do realize this is not the first time heat has come up right?

Doof raping Twist was the first time.

[O. Hinds]

Well, just in the previous chapter Glory had a discussion with BJ. It's implied (Or I believe it's implied.) that she doesn't mind BJ sleeping around as long as she gets to join in. I believe that if it was enforced in the enclave she would never say that.

Would you please quote the part you you believe implies this?

I fully expect people to disregard me as troll, because i said something that may offend Somber and isn´t Praise.

No, I'm going to dismiss you as a troll because of the manner in which you presented your criticism and the poor grammar which you used to convey it. There is no need to be rude in your expression of displeasure.

[O. Hinds]

Sindri, you do realize this is not the first time heat has come up right?

Doof raping Twist was the first time.

Oh, hey, I'd completely forgotten that it was mentioned there.

[Guest]

“Just don’t... don’t leave me out. Whatever happens, don’t leave me out or leave me behind. Please...”

Now that I think about it this is a bit of a stretch, but I think that her previous question on whether or not she was okay with it got me in that frame of mind and the heat discussion in 54 enforced that thought.

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