Re: Gun/Military Thread

[StoneSlinger88]

"Lacking an expert" usually means the specialists are hiding and the privates are busy.

Smaller forces are usually better with improvising without the necessary equipment-- look at any underfunded unit that still tries to train and you'll see that. WD-40, duct tape, and 550 cord goes a long way. Any piece of equipment is reliable if you maintain it correctly-- the problem occurs when operators think that maintenance does everything for them. They don't, there's a level of maintenance and repairs that the operator is responsible for, and maintenance doesn't waste time doing it because they usually have bigger problems, and the operators don't do it because they think maintenance will eventually take care of it. The little things snowball and fuck up big things, which deadline the vehicle.

[StoneSlinger88]

I almost forgot; I watched at least four Specialists attempt to put the bolt in backwards, and one of those was because he couldn't figure out why it wouldn't go in the right way with the cocking mechanism up.

[Frost]

I almost forgot; I watched at least four Specialists attempt to put the bolt in backwards, and one of those was because he couldn't figure out why it wouldn't go in the right way with the cocking mechanism up.

This is why America needs Commissars, complete with summary execution authority.

[Harmony Ltd.]

Remember the other day when I talked about "recoil compensation" in the chat thread ?

Well... => https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xohy9gWz7kk

[StoneSlinger88]

Found a tin of 325 copper hollow-point .22, and a box of 500 lead round-nose. Sunday's gonna be fun.

[Frost]

Remember the other day when I talked about "recoil compensation" in the chat thread ?

Well... => https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xohy9gWz7kk

.........Why was that even made? Who honestly sat down and thought a good use of their time would be the production of the world's most useless firearm?

[Harmony Ltd.]

What I love about it is that it's basically a WW1 tank gun stripped of anything but the barrel, with a rudimentary bolt lock, and configured as a rifle.

And as we can imagine... It doesn't do much good

[Frost]

For lack of a dedicated "archery" thread, this is probably the best place for this:



Why's the image inverted, you ask? Fucked if I know.

Anydick, it's a reproduction of a late medieval crossbow with a roughly 100 lb. (~45 kg) draw weight, and it's pretty damn accurate from what little shooting I've done with it. Picked it up at the Renaissance fair from the guy who made it (a Desert Storm vet, incidentally) for $300

[Harmony Ltd.]

Let's look at it this way : now you can survive the post apocalypse and hunt zombies even after running out of gunpowder !


... though I'm not sure how effective an arrow would be against a rotting shambler. Probably not much.

[Frost]

Let's look at it this way : now you can survive the post apocalypse and hunt zombies even after running out of gunpowder !


... though I'm not sure how effective an arrow would be against a rotting shambler. Probably not much.

The sheer force it hits with (and the fact that it actually imparts all of that force into the target, rather than punching through like a bullet) means it's very likely to completely knock down any man-sized target it hits. Anything shambling along slowly is going to be fairly trivial to headshot, especially if my accuracy with it is as good as it's been so far.

[Harmony Ltd.]

Yeah, but will it have enough force to penetrate the cranium and deal enough damage to the brain to scramble it enough to score a "kill" ? That's the point I'm not sure about.

Do you know of something with properties similar to bone you could run tests on ? I guess a test on a plate made of 3-4 layers of tin-can steel could be a good indicator ?

[Frost]

I can certainly give it a shot. I'm no physicist, but just from the weight and velocity of the bolt, I'd put my money on being able to pierce the skull (It's got, as mentioned, a fairly heavy draw weight)

[StoneSlinger88]

It might not have to pierce the skull; the simple inertia from a bolt hitting the skull could be enough to send a shock to the brain and kill a person.

[jacky2734]

I'm no ballistics expert, but considering that crossbow bolts could penetrate medieval plate armor, i'm pretty sure it can punch through a half-decayed, unprotected skull. After all, up until the 1800s longbows and crossbows were still ballistically superior to muzzleloaders.

[Frost]

I'm no ballistics expert, but considering that crossbow bolts could penetrate medieval plate armor, i'm pretty sure it can punch through a half-decayed, unprotected skull. After all, up until the 1800s longbows and crossbows were still ballistically superior to muzzleloaders.

It could certainly pierce chainmaille, but I don't think it could punch through fullplate. It did, after all, take a hammer or mace to even dent the stuff, and piercing it required a war pick or a (preferably mounted) spear charge. Fullplate was, after all, more-or-less invulnerable to conventional arrows and even swords unless a blow found the joints.

And those full-size medieval crossbows were the fuckhuge ones that required a winch to draw, while mine's a relatively tame 100-pound-draw range toy.

[jacky2734]

A few things to point out.

One, a 60 lb draw weight is sufficient to take down an elk. A 100 lb draw should be sufficient to pierce a human skull.

Two, you have to remember that the middle ages pretty much had an arms race between armor to block arrows and bows to pierce that armor. It went something like this: 

• Chainmail useless against arrows, make plate armor. 
  
• Plate armor blocking arrows, build more powerful bow and put a harder and heavier arrowhead on the arrows.
  
• New Arrows punching through the plate armor, make thicker/harder/stronger plate armor. 
  
• Repeat last two steps over several centuries until the advent of handheld firearms make both armor and arrows obsolete.
  

The point being, at one time, there was probably a set of plate armor that your crossbow could punch through, it's just a matter of finding the right century.

Three, your crossbow bolts appear to have steel tips. One's skull may be hard, but there's really no chance of it standing against a piece of steel flying at it at high speed. It'd be like slamming a nail into a guy's head, only much more effective.

[Harmony Ltd.]

It'd be like slamming a nail into a guy's head, only much more effective.

I have no doubt that it'd be enough to kill a human. That's certain. Even if it doesn't pierce, the shock itself will be enough to cause a brain hemorrhage. Or an hemorrhage period.

However, I was wondering if, if we go with Mel Brook's World War Z model zombies (as long as the brain isn't destroyed, the thing continue to move), the impact of a single bolt at 20 yards is enough to "destroy" the brain. Though I'm not sure what kind of damage would be necessary for a brain to be considered as "destroyed".

[Frost]

Well, I don't really think that Max Brooks' zombies are the model for undead--the man just doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about when it comes to.....anything. 

Anyway, I get what you're saying, Jack, about it being able to pierce earlier plate armor. I was just using Maximilian at our as a reference, as that's what definitively sticks out in my mind as far as plate armor goes. 

One of the Renaissance fair's blacksmiths pointed me to a forum for medieval crossbow building and shooting, and the folks on there informed me that what I have is a Skane bow. I'll have to do a little digging and see what sort of armor that bow would have been facing

[Harmony Ltd.]

Well, I don't really think that Max Brooks' zombies are the model for undead--the man just doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about when it comes to.....anything.

Well, sure, but given Zombies don't exist in the first place I had to start somewhere. :v

[Harmony Ltd.]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8niD-n0lHk

Ironbait ?

[Frost]

Had an interesting day of shooting with the folks. We went out to an outdoor range in the vicinity of Fuckin' Nowhere, Ohio, which took our Accord over gravel roads suited for pickups. That was entertaining.

I met a guy there who's basically a future version of me, assuming I go through with my plans of growing a wicked sweet beard, marrying a chubby redneck, and developing early-onset Parkinson's. Unfortunately, I'll have to track him down and kill him, as he prefers AKs to ARs

Then, once we got home and began scouring every bit of carbon from existence for daring to rest upon our guns, I had a little Macguyver moment. To elaborate, my brother rather inconveniently forgot to replace the buffer spring as he reassembled my AR, allowing the buffer--and the bolt--to slide back into the buffer tube and become firmly lodged there. I had to liberate it with a wire coat hanger, a flathead screwdriver, and some spamming of the forward assist.

[StoneSlinger88]

Be thankful that forward assist exists-- on the first version of the M16, they hadn't implemented it yet.

And between working 26 hours a weekend and college in the work week, I don't have spare time to go to the range.

[Frost]

Oh, and I found out ever-so-pleasantly today that he hardly actually bothered 'cleaning' it so much as 'taking it apart and putting it together again'. There was carbon freaking everywhere, and he didn't even bother cleaning out the barrel. Just goes to show--never trust another man to clean your guns. Never trust another man in general, really. If you can help it, it's probably best to live out in the mountains, growing a chest-length beard and peeing into mason jars. No, I'm not overreacting.

[StoneSlinger88]

Why would you pee in mason jars when there's trees everywhere?

[Frost]

So I can drink the pee,as any true survivalist does.

[StoneSlinger88]

Welp, I found another lost soul in need of love and care. This time, it's a shotgun. A 12-gauge pump-action Savage 620, to be exact, designed by John Browning himself as an aesthetic upgrade to the Stevens 520. Asking price for the old gun?

$75.

It is in rough shape, but the store owner (same place I got the short Mauser) was planning on chopping it up and selling for parts. Should I save this piece of history from scrap heap, or should I let the old dog be put down?

[Frost]

Well, I can't very well advise you on that. Personally, I'm more about a gun's utility than its history. I wouldn't pop $75 on a banged-up gun unless I had means and intent to repair and use it.

[Harmony Ltd.]

If its a unique piece with historical value, yeah, $75 dollars isn't much if you aren't literally starving and / or badly needing medical cares.

[StoneSlinger88]

Learned some more. The Stevens 520/Savage 620 model of shotgun was originally designed by John Browning himself in 1903, produced from 1907 to 1958, and some saw action in WW2 as a trench gun. It was manufactured in 12, 16, and 20 gauge. It is a takedown design, easy to clean, modify, repair, and I've even found website where I can get cheap replacement parts if the internals are in bad shape (I'm gonna have to start my own "Stone Rambles On About Shit He Finds" thread someday).

[Frost]

In that case, I would definitely go for it. Hard to find a solid takedown shotgun nowadays

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