Re: Gun/Military Thread

[Frost]

@Hunting with AR's:

There's nothing inherently bad about it, but it's just unsporting compared to a bolt-action

@Kriss Super V:

Solution looking for a problem

@Oldest gun I've shot:

My '43 Mosin.

@AR-10:

Beautiful gun. I'd definitely choose it over a PTR-91 or FAL, not sure about it or an M1A. Probably AR-10. I was simply narrowing the discussion down to assault rifles for the sake of keeping the conversation on track

[jacky2734]

Poor AR-10, what an under-appreciated platform. I didn't know there was a gas piston variant, I thought it was direct impingement.

Though it doesn't fit with the AR-15 vs. AK argument as it isn't either, just a predecessor. A little like saying you'd prefer an StG 44, which inspired Kalashnikov in the first place.

What is the criteria for being a gunsmith, anyway?

The AR-10 is a similar platform to the AR-15. If there isn't a gas piston variant for it on the market, than there's probably a Gun manufacturer out there that you can go to to have it custom built.

As for the criteria of being a gunsmith, in truth, you can get certified through online courses, but I don't recommend it as you don't get the hands on experience you would get from being taught in person and actually getting to handle the guns. I got certified through a 14 month program at a Trade School that offered it. You can also apprentice under a master gunsmith, but that's more time consuming and has fallen out of practice in recent years.

[jacky2734]

@Hunting with AR's:

@Kriss Super V:

Solution looking for a problem

Well, that's not entirely true. The problem is that people love the stopping power one gets when using a .45 acp SMG but the recoil from using it on full auto makes it unwieldy. The Kriss solves that problem by redirecting the recoil force downwards.

[Ironmonger]

Someone who's been in the military for at least two years should be even more qualified to be a gunsmith given they would know their weapons inside and out quite literally than just the training course alone.

Frost found a G3 for $300 at a pawn shop I think it was, thought about hunting around for one of those or a FAL and turning it into a DMR but I heard the G3 will cease to function if the receiver is dented near the bolt carrier.

Any recommendations for a good home defense shotgun that doubles as a hunting weapon?

[Frost]

@Hunting with AR's:

@Kriss Super V:

Solution looking for a problem

Well, that's not entirely true. The problem is that people love the stopping power one gets when using a .45 acp SMG but the recoil from using it on full auto makes it unwieldy. The Kriss solves that problem by redirecting the recoil force downwards.

That's the solution, and it's looking for a problem. Not many people are clambering for SMG's anymore, really. Carbines have supplanted them in a lot of roles.

[Frost]

I can't make up my mind on the Kel-Tec KSG



any thoughts?

[IncoherentOrange]

Any recommendations for a good home defense shotgun that doubles as a hunting weapon?

Double-barrel, (it's harder to miss with buckshot) or a generic four-shot pump. It's a simple question.

@Kal-Tec: I like the color, neat-looking design.

[Ironmonger]

Any recommendations for a good home defense shotgun that doubles as a hunting weapon?

Double-barrel, (it's harder to miss with buckshot) or a generic four-shot pump. It's a simple question.

@Kal-Tec: I like the color, neat-looking design.

Was referring to model not action. Double-barrel is a little obsolete today anyways. Frost carries an Ithaca 37 and it seems decent.

Remington 870 is apparently off the list because if you break the extractor you gotta send it back to the factory.

[IncoherentOrange]

Obsolete? I call it cheap and likely effective. You can still kill something with a Minie rifled musket, after all. (I wouldn't recommend it for home defense, since it takes like, thirty seconds to a minute to reload.) If you're thinkin' Ithaca 37, try his sometime. If you like it, then why not get one of those?

[Ironmonger]

I gotta get around to trying it out sometime. Merely asking if anyone had some recommendations. Also I would prefer if you didn't say things like "It's a simple question." because in my case that has undertones of "Why can't you figure this out yourself.". I don't ask unless I think I need help.

[IncoherentOrange]

Oh, so sorry.

Speaking of Minie rifles, I thought it would be worth mentioning that their caliber is almost as wide as a Bolter round: .71 caliber.

[Ironmonger]

I thought it would be neat if there was a musket designed to be used with smokeless powder. That kind of impact would hurt like hell.

[Frost]

Obsolete? I call it cheap and likely effective. You can still kill something with a Minie rifled musket, after all. (I wouldn't recommend it for home defense, since it takes like, thirty seconds to a minute to reload.) If you're thinkin' Ithaca 37, try his sometime. If you like it, then why not get one of those?

Oddly enough, despite both double-barrels' and revolvers' reputations as being simple and cheap, they can cost you way more than a newer design, and their internals are almost watch-like in their tolerances and servicing them requires a certified gunsmith. Semi-autos and pump-actions have gotten to the point now where they're undoubtedly superior (you have to be careful with a revolver, because damaging it can mean its cylinder and barrel lines up and it explodes in your hand, while any semi-auto pistol is torture-tested) plus the tactical advantage of having quicker reloads and more capacity from newer weapons

[IncoherentOrange]

Even before smokeless, the Minie was accurate to 550 meters and caused horrendous wounds due to the size and rapid spin of the bullet.

[Frost]

Wierdly enough though, they had rather poor penetration. There are stories of soldiers surviving because the round caught their belt buckle.

[CamoBadger]

Looking to buy a new rifle because I haven't gotten a new one in quite a while, but all the ones I'm most interested in are either for military purchase only (meaning for military use, they come with automatic capabilities), or require a specialized licence to purchase. I don't know if any of you have tried to get those permits, but they are a total pain. Colorado is pretty laid back about gun laws, and it takes a signature from the state sheriff or a congressman, and a $300 fee to get one. WHY GOD WHY?!

Also, if anyone has any recommendations I'd love to get some

[IncoherentOrange]

Wierdly enough though, they had rather poor penetration. There are stories of soldiers surviving because the round caught their belt buckle.

Seems like it's just a problem with the variable effectiveness of muskets in general; the thing could shoot through two sheets of thick plywood. There are also stories of the round passing through two people and hitting a third.

[Frost]

Looking to buy a new rifle because I haven't gotten a new one in quite a while, but all the ones I'm most interested in are either for military purchase only (meaning for military use, they come with automatic capabilities), or require a specialized licence to purchase. I don't know if any of you have tried to get those permits, but they are a total pain. Colorado is pretty laid back about gun laws, and it takes a signature from the state sheriff or a congressman, and a $300 fee to get one. WHY GOD WHY?!

Also, if anyone has any recommendations I'd love to get some

You've got a wierd definition of "laid-back". Here in Ohio, a quick bout of paperwork and a call to the national background check system and you've got yourself a weapon.

As for the rifle itself, I'm betting you've either considered or already own an SKS. If you have a decent budget, Any interest in a Saiga (it's a shotgun, I know), or a M1A? The gun shops around here are lousy with Enfield MK 3's and 4's, too

[CamoBadger]

Looking to buy a new rifle because I haven't gotten a new one in quite a while, but all the ones I'm most interested in are either for military purchase only (meaning for military use, they come with automatic capabilities), or require a specialized licence to purchase. I don't know if any of you have tried to get those permits, but they are a total pain. Colorado is pretty laid back about gun laws, and it takes a signature from the state sheriff or a congressman, and a $300 fee to get one. WHY GOD WHY?!

Also, if anyone has any recommendations I'd love to get some

You've got a wierd definition of "laid-back". Here in Ohio, a quick bout of paperwork and a call to the national background check system and you've got yourself a weapon.

As for the rifle itself, I'm betting you've either considered or already own an SKS. If you have a decent budget, Any interest in a Saiga (it's a shotgun, I know), or a M1A? The gun shops around here are lousy with Enfield MK 3's and 4's, too

Those are the same rules as here, but there are always special conditions. Short barrels, suppressors, automatics; all require a special permit to buy.

I've never really liked SKS's, not sure why, but they don't interest me. Saigas...eeeeehhhhh, I don't like semi-auto shotguns, if it isn't pump I don't want it. Just feels wrong.

M1A's I love. Shot it once as a rental because I wanted to try it out, fell in love. I have it on my list as well, and may end up getting one. And we're the same here. Enfields...Enfields everywhere

[Ironmonger]

If I recall correctly Frost once found a Dragunov for $500.

[Frost]

It was closer to $800, I think. That was at a gun show, I bet I could find one from a private seller for closer to $500, though. Man, Dragunov's are awesome. And the ammo is freakishly cheap compared to stuff like .308

[CamoBadger]

If I were to get a Dragunov, I would have to have the proper scope. Any old thing won't do, I need the actual scope it goes with. If it has been lost or damaged severely, I will settle for a re-creation, but that would make me a sad badger

[Frost]

Yeah. A lot of the ones I've seen have the same model of scope as the Soviets used on there.

What do you think of the G3?

[Ironmonger]

I checked out Izhmash's site and they sell civilian Dragunovs (called Tigrs) in various calibers. Rather have the military version.

[CamoBadger]

I've never shot the G3, but I've heard good and bad things about it. It shoots a good round, but I've heard the kickback is horrendous, as well as the brass ejection (I think the last time I checked it was around 20 feet).

I think I'd rather try one out before I bought it just to be safe.

[IncoherentOrange]

I always thought I might enjoy having an SKS. They just seem so well-rounded and cool in my mind. However, if I ever wanted one in Canada, I'd have to have one retrofitted with a five-round magazine rather than a ten-round one. Also, it fires the same round as the AK-47, which means getting ammunition for it might be significantly more difficult than getting ammunition for a different semi-automatic rifle, though with the weapon's proliferation throughout the world, perhaps not.

[Frost]

Yeah, Canada's gun laws blow


If I had to pick a battle rifle, it would probably be either an M1A or FAL

[Ironmonger]

According to a review I read, the M1A gets first place in accuracy compared to the FAL and G3. The FAL comes in a close second and has the best ergonomics. G3 comes in third in nearly all areas.

[Frost]

Yeah, my fave's probably the FAL.

Not for nothing it's called the "Right Arm of the Free World"

[CamoBadger]

A gunstore near my house used to have a really nice, old FAL. Had all original wooden parts; grip, handguard, stock. Thing weighed like 15 pounds. It was so beautiful, but then the store closed when the owner retired.

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