Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

[Ketchup]

This is a rather strange piece of music based on PH.

[CamoBadger]

This is a rather strange piece of music based on PH.

hmmm...interesting...

[Ironmonger]

This is a rather strange piece of music based on PH.

This makes me think of the Three Stooges for some reason.

[Guest]

This is a rather strange piece of music based on PH.

It's very interesting, I like it. Great find ketchup.

[Ironmonger]

Spoiler:

Found this during one of my many Internet Crusades.

[Katarn]

^ cute
@music ....
....
*turns on lights* that's better...
*static* OH GOD WHY! HELP M----

[Caoimhe]

The musician behind that track has incredibly poor rhythm, or else it's sequenced wrong. Agggghhh.

Good concept though.

[Caoimhe]

@All
Oh God I dropped 450$ buying two IPhone 5s

I dropped $600something on one. Yay for buying inside contract!

[Admiral Stoic Rum]

The musician behind that track has incredibly poor rhythm, or else it's sequenced wrong. Agggghhh.

Good concept though.

Oh good I wasn't the only one who thought so

[Guest]

Wow... not eating for like a day makes food taste REALLY good. Related note: I have caught the college plague.

[O. Hinds]

@ O.Hinds
That is amazing, also my reply in an hour or two from part 37 of our long running HISTORY OF EQUESTIRA AVIATION disscussion

Hopefully I'll be able to reply tonight. My RPG group is meeting at 2100 EDT, though, assuming that our GM isn't kept late at the seminar he's attending, so I might be busy.

[tylertoon2]

GUYS NEWS!

http://www.equestriadaily.com/2012/09/tabithas-fallout-equestria-collection.html#idc-container

[Caoimhe]

Well that's just amazing.

I do hope she finds time to read them.

[Ironmonger]

GUYS NEWS!

http://www.equestriadaily.com/2012/09/tabithas-fallout-equestria-collection.html#idc-container

The Fallout from this will be insane.

[Caoimhe]

If she ever got through it and found time to read PH...

That memory orb...

[RoboRed]

This could either go very well or very badly...

[IncoherentOrange]

If she ever got through it and found time to read PH...

That memory orb...

My inference skills tell me: "Oh, dear..." Regardless of whether or not she reads Horizons, her possible reactions to the adventures of a one Stable Dweller will be quite interesting. Wonder what she knows of Fallout. Probably nothing.

I've listened up to chapter eighteen of Fo:E. Pretty good, I find it entertaining, quite so. However, Scorch's audiobook is running out. I'm going to have to start actually reading it... which means I can't play Civilization V at the same time. I should really appreciate reading more now that I write (once on a blue moon nowadays, but still), but I've got issues with time, always wishing to squeeze all I can out of it all. Reading doesn't easily find itself at the top of my list of things to do.

...Fo:E makes me feel like I suck at writing. Thankfully, that perception isn't new, and has basis in truth, so it hasn't affected me much.

[Admiral Stoic Rum]

just bought starcrtaft 2... now applying patch 1 of 24... FML

[RoboRed]

Christ...I haven't played SC2 in many months...I don't even want to think about patches right now...

[Admiral Stoic Rum]

If she ever got through it and found time to read PH...

That memory orb...

I imagine it would be, "Seven times!?"

[Admiral Stoic Rum]

Christ...I haven't played SC2 in many months...I don't even want to think about patches right now...

funny you should say that....

now I am getting it optimized...

[Ironmonger]

I stopped playing SC2 because everyone is an asshole. And not the good kind.

[SilentCarto]

I'm just gonna leave this here.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/TEWuZ0QBvlo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Admiral Stoic Rum]

ah welll...pride and prejudice

[Vergil]

If she ever got through it and found time to read PH...

That memory orb...

Preeety sure Littlepip tries to get off while dreaming of Rarity at one point.

So yeah I don't think that would do much if she made it that far.

[RoboRed]

I stopped playing SC2 because everyone is an asshole. And not the good kind.

All I really cared about was getting through the campaign. I'm horrible at online play in RTS's. I played it with friends a couple times, but not much. Online play just never was much fun.

[IncoherentOrange]

Preeety sure Littlepip tries to get off while dreaming of Rarity at one point.

You're correct on that. I recall that scene. I was going to mention that, but since I don't know about the scene Cao referred to, I didn't know how well they'd be connected.

[Admiral Stoic Rum]

I just started optimization, it must download 1.5 Gigabytes of data....

FML

[Karasu]

Hey, I'm not allowed to keep a ton of images on my computer so something's gonna get reused sooner or later. Plus, it's amusing.

why can't you keep a lot of images on your computer? is it old, full of other stuff, or stupid rules?

This. Also, Google Images + a text or spreadsheet file with URLs and image descriptions will get you pretty far while using very little disk space.

Wow.
Just... wow.

where does it end???
no wait, just found it

I'm glad you guys brought this up; I was really confused by it when I had javascript disabled for xkcd.com. Also, does anyone else think that this weeks Ask XKCD would make a great pegasus + unicorn magic-based superweapon?

I think that the one-drop storm would make a fantastic superweapon, also it gives you an idea of just how devastating water is...especially that much moving at close to the speed of sound.

[Cptadder]

Okay it's reply time for our continued adventures in Zebra aeronautics.
First some reposts so I don't have to dig back through the other thread.

Well, the Zebras were already using airplanes and airships for transport, surveying, etc. When the war began, the Zebras, having their own experience with war, got quite nervous about the disparity in air power (well, those in the concerned places of power did, as likely did many of the soldiers; I'm not sure that the destruction Equestria's pegasi were capable of had yet occurred to the average zebra, though.) Dragons weren't expected to get involved yet, and initially the air force sent against Equestria was composed primarily of mercs and zebras with flight fetishes. Hastily-armed (for aerial combat; I wouldn't be surprised, given some of the fauna (and, hey, maybe some of the flora) in the Zebra lands, if they already had ground attack and light bomber planes) airplanes were also sent, since every bit was expected to be needed. The airplanes were, however, kept in the initial reserve, and so, when Equstria sent only pegasus guards rather than an army mobilized from a significant portion of the pegasus population (after all, the start of the war wasn't just a case of Equestria having no idea what it was doing, it was a case of the Zebras not knowing that Equestria had no idea what it was doing; war, after all, is serious business, and surely no one would be so stupid as to jump into it with no particular plans or preparations, right?), the airplanes were held back as the griffins and winged zebras fought.

Back in Rome, while there was great relief when it became clear that Equestria was, at least for the moment, intent on waging a highly limited war, the commanders of the military were not resting easy. While on the land and sea the two sides seemed to be relatively even, the air forces the Zebras had sent north were sent not because they were expected to be enough but because they were pretty much everything available. Griffins are expensive and of relatively small numbers (and are of somewhat dubious loyalty), and the most expert fetish zebra is not much better at aerial combat than the average pegasus. Things were more or less matched at the moment, but if Equestria decided to really commit to the war... even an army of pegasus draftees would be a significant danger, and once they started gaining experience the Zebras would definitely be in trouble as things stood now. The first action taken was to work on hiring more griffins, and the nearly-simultaneous second was to see if it might be possible to make much better flight fetishes (research that ultimately did not pan out; there's only so much magic can do, and when you're a zebra draftee and your opponent has grown up flying in a flying culture with a militaristic history and a talent for destructive aerial maneuvers...). Also looked into, however, was the possibility of better airplanes. Pilots could be made from the large Zebra population, and only the least motivated of them would be fighting for only money (and if the war did escalate... well, no one at the time thought that it would go really anywhere near as far as it did, but it was still recognized that "They're invading us" is a pretty good motivation to fight). Airplanes could also be built from mostly mundane materials, without need of Equestrian gems or any particularly rare alchemical materials. Also, an airplane could be mission killed in ways that didn't mission kill the pilot, allowing them to hop into a replacement plane and get right back in the action; if something brought down a griffin or fetished zebra, chances were good that they'd be down, or at least impaired, for a while. Of course, airplanes, particularly the airplanes of the day, still weren't matches for pegasi, but there was one advantage there: airplanes didn't fight like pegasi. Fetished zebras, being equines with wings, fought pretty much the same way pegasi did, and it was quite a problem that they were nowhere near as good at it. Griffin techniques were a bit different, but they were related. Airplanes, by contrast, behaved quite differently; it would be impossible to fight with them the same way winged equines fought, and, while it seemed likely that many of the differences would be detriments, it was still thought to be worth looking into.

The first fighter prototype designs varied quite a bit, and the ones that one out in the end were the fastest and most maneuverable (heavy enough armor to provide adequate protection made the planes easy targets, assuming that they even managed to get off the ground). While they still couldn't match the maneuverability of pegasi, griffins, or even fetished zebras, they could at least come close to matching the speed (and technological developments promised, and of course delivered, planes that could not just match but greatly exceed). Endurance was also a plus; while pegasi were hardy, a cic engine without malfunctions and within operating parameters could run at constant flight power for days if it had the fuel. These, combined with the increased possible numbers of planes that could be brought to bear (a new pegasus soldier's construction has to be begun over a decade prior to the desired deployment time, and you can still probably produce n/2 (n being the pegasus breeding population) a year; in 1944 alone the US built over 30000 fighters, and they weren't actually being invaded at the time), made combat aircraft look pretty good compared to the other options.

Work on building more and better fighters and getting pilots for them began quickly, but fighters still weren't being deployed much; if Equestria still didn't want to commit to a full war, the Zebras weren't going to provoke them (and were also welcoming the extra development time, given that the fighters of the time still weren't expected to fare immensely well). While the fighting was done mostly by griffins and the increasingly-small number of fetished zebras (most of them having been either killed or reassigned, often to the pilot programs (or to serve as the enemy in wargames against fighters armed with automatic paintball guns and the like)), the airplanes that did see deployment were designs such as the Munditia (expy of the PBY Catalina), not frontline combat models. Development continued apace, however, as the threat of an expanded air war was never far from the Zebra High Command's minds (and, in addition to that, the aircraft development programs were producing useful advances for other areas).

While Equestria was aware of the work being done, they did not take it especially seriously (in part due to not being fully aware of its scope, to to a great degree just due to (not unfounded) confidence in its pegasi). They were quite surprised when the post-Littlehorn expanded pegasus forces actually encountered significantly resistance from those funny nonmagical Zebra flying metal machines that were powered by little bits of exploding liquid. Indeed, their surprise at this new foe was so great that the Zebras won the first few engagements pretty handily. This was not to last. The Equestrian forces quickly adapted and soon possessed air superiority more often than not. Airplane losses mounted, but production was high, ejector seat technology was good, and technological progress continued. Pegasi might take the air, but they wouldn't take it unchallenged.

Now onto the replies

Yes, we have rather switched places on this; now you're proposing ways to make the plane exist while I'm giving reasons why it wouldn't.

I just don't know anymore

Reading this post... Well, I suppose that one way of looking at it is that we both ought to be congratulated for arguing our original points so successfully?

Good job us, we managed to each convince the other that we are correct and are now fighting each other over who was more right.

We seem to be a bit confused again. I've been assuming that at least a particular part of the generator has to passing through the medium at at least the speed of sound in the medium. In a stationary design, that would one or more rotors, possibly in a tank willed with a material featuring a slower speed of sound. In the SS, the supersonic propellors are used (the plane's airspeed is still less than the speed of sound, however, as the airframe and engines are not actually designed to go supersonic in conventional flight).

This clears things up, if some part of the engine has to break the... Rainboom barrier then movement is inherently required. And designing a plane for subsonic flight is much easier than supersonic flight. The stresses of breaking that barrier require certain plane shapes, keep the speeder lower and the agility high means you can still run for it at need be (300-400 mph should be fast enough to out-run any Pegasuses) and still maintain that crazy agility that makes the SS desirable not to mention it's cloud busting side effect that makes it so dangerous to Raptors and Thunderheads.

...So, you're saying that, while they'd try to disrupt it if they knew what it was, they'd also try to disrupt it if they didn't know what it was, and as they'd try to disrupt any Zebra wartime production/R&D? I'm not sure what point you're trying to make by stating that.

The Americans managed to shut down and entire line of Japanese fighters in WW2 by bombing the one factory churning out the engines which were being made to be mated with airframes and if you know anything about plane design you must design the plane to the engine and you almost never do it the other way. Point is that in war you can get lucky. It's war you want to blow things up of the enemies, SS production could be delayed significantly by Pony action without the ponies being even aware exactly how vital a blow had been struck.

Should you chose to make the SS have never seen combat.
Look the point of the thread was could the SS exist given it's projected abilities before the end of the war and the lack of counter measures.
My counter-point is that it could exist without any counter measures IF one of three things were true

A. It never saw combat action before the end of the war
B. It was so widely successful that no survivors managed to report this new Zebra wonder weapon
C. The materials to produce the SS made it so expensive that less than a dozen were produced and they were retained for defense.
Or
D. The generator was in some way unreliable or the first combat usage was a disaster that inspired the SS to be killed off shortly after it was introduced.

If you want to accept any one of those explanations (Or a mix of explanations) then it could exist, if not then it has a hard time fitting into FoE canon based on observable combat technology, trends, measures and counter measures.

A weapon without a counter is either a weapon that ends the war or a weapon that never really existed.
That's where we stand in my opinion at the moment.

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