Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

[Tytan]

@Robored

Your location on your profile intrigues me. What part of the great corn state do you inhabit. (You don't need to be specific if you don't want to.)

Eastern side. Por que?

Let's just say I'm in the middle-ish bit.

Let me see if I can work some of my I-haven't-slept-in-24-hours-and-for-some-reason-that-makes-my-brain-work-better magic.

You say you live in the eastern part of Nebraska. And the average age of bronies is 16 to 24. My guess is... College student, in the Lincoln, with the UNL. (CLUE reference FTW)

[RoboRed]

Yes, no, and no. Further.

Middle-ish, eh? I'm gonna take a stab and say Grand Island or Kearney.

[Tytan]

Yes, no, and no. Further.

Middle-ish, eh? I'm gonna take a stab and say Grand Island or Kearney.

At no point did I say my super insomnia powers were accurate.(This is how it feels ... minus the mania) So it must be Omaha.

Also... Swing and a miss. Here's a hint, West middle-ish. Don't bother guess any towns with less than 1000 people, I don't think they know what the internet is.

[RoboRed]

...Ogalala? North Platte? *shrug* I dunno. I'm having to resort to using a map on wikipedia for city names. (Nobody cares about what's out West. )

[Tytan]

...Ogalala? North Platte? *shrug* I dunno. I'm having to resort to using a map on wikipedia for city names. (Nobody cares about what's out West. )

I know what you mean... I live here and I don't care.

Also. You got it. With the second one. Which is technically the fourth one. Because you guessed four times and that was the fourth guess.

[Tytan]

I think I'll go into a coma for a few hours and hallucinate vividly. Goodnite!

[FoolNeim]

@Kattlarv I can relate to that a little. I have a brother 8 years my senior with an IQ of 240 last time I checked, and while I'm above average myself I feel completely stupid or straight-up mentally disabled when I'm around him.

Considering that 240 is probably not even possible on any adult scale, and would be a world record on any child scale, Occam's Razor would suggest your mom getting the number wrong (EDIT: or it being some bullshit internet test). Any test that came out that highly that was the result of professional testing would not have been kept a secret by the tester, even if the subject remained anonymous. I believe the highest documented adult IQ is 198 (a Greek researcher named Evangelos Katsioulis got this score apparently).

Also, as someone who tested very highly, while I do believe the tests are a valid measure of things like abstract analytical ability, you cannot enumerate the brain that way. That's not how it works. Also, while one's IQ is often described as their capacity to learn ("like a measuring cup," as described in Flowers for Algernon), the things that would determine your IQ, just like most cognitive functions, are themselves elastic and can be changed with effort. Finally, having a very high IQ does not preclude one from being retarded in other ways, colloquially speaking.

EDIT: Okay, caught up, ignore most of this, my bad. Btw, if your brother is "near genius", your mother might be confusing 240 with 140 (actually 140 is right at the lowest end of genius). 140 is about 1-in-100 or so, which is still hella smart.

[O. Hinds]

Chapter 50 Commentary:

Editing:

Ah, thank you. However, "You know…", "Soon it was…", and "I've got to…" all seem fine to me.

[Caoimhe]

The goddess is going to die whilst BJ is taking a dump or being 'punished' by Glory. No one will assume anything because BJ is 'loud' in both situations.

Also I get the feeling Somber is basically sending subliminal messages to Wave to get inspired.

I imagine the Goddess dying in your head during coitus is akin to boning while tripping on Ecstasy.

[Cptadder]

I imagine the Goddess dying in your head during coitus is akin to boning while tripping on Ecstasy.

Somehow I don't think it's going to go down since I assume both Lacunae and Blackjack are going to be spending an hour with the Goddess screaming PANIC and FLEE in their heads so I don't think BJ will be up for any strenuous activities... nor any three ways of spiritual healing.

OAN, I don't think when Somber writes Boo like Maru it's subliminal messages to wave, those are totally bliminal.
And that's not a word.

[Valikdu]

In the original FoE, Goddess was just The Master with a tragic twist. Now, she is really scary.

If someone were to go back in time and terminate Mac Walters, maybe Harbinger would also be scary like this.

...and now I have in my head all sorts of Harbinger's ramblings being said in Trixie's voice as she assumes direct control of BJ and proclaims that LP will know pain. Curse you, brain.

[CamoBadger]

Wait...a world where Harbinger is more than just an annoyance? I call bullcrap, it's not possible.

I say they go back in time and just make Sovereign survive somehow, and keep him for the next 2 games.

[Cptadder]

Wait...a world where Harbinger is more than just an annoyance? I call bullcrap, it's not possible.

I say they go back in time and just make Sovereign survive somehow, and keep him for the next 2 games.

Harbinger could have been more than an annoyance if they played up the endless nature of him better. Imagine him saying this

Spoilers-A relentless Harbinger

Sheppard I know you, I know your stride I know your movements. Every drone you kill is one more bit of information that teaches me how best to counter your strengths. You can only die once, I have ninety thousand bodies on this instillation alone.

Does your victory give you joy Sheppard? If you killed one drone every ten seconds then in nine days you will have killed a tenth of the force I have at my disposal.

You think your skills great? Are you so great that you can reach orbit by yourself Sheppard?? As you spend your time teaching us how best to kill you my forces are spending their time destroying ever shuttle, every spacecraft and every mode of transport on this planet. Once my forces locate your ship your only choice will be to accept the inevitable.

I was made to kill you, I was made to understand you. I was made in your image. When you fall I will thank you for giving purpose to my existence.

[Ironmonger]

"Zecora? How'd you...nevermind. I swear, lately it seems like every third band of ragtag misfits is stumbling over all kinds of things forgotten over the last two centuries."

Love how Spike is referencing all of the side-stories out there.

[Sindri]

Wait...a world where Harbinger is more than just an annoyance? I call bullcrap, it's not possible.

I say they go back in time and just make Sovereign survive somehow, and keep him for the next 2 games.

Eh, for all of the first game Sovereign was just a pretty generic BBEG; anything interesting about him was something about the Reaper race rather than his character personally and he made all the standard overconfident "invincible" bad guy mistakes before dying a stupid death in a battle he should never have fought.


As of the end of ME2, Harbinger seemed like a goofy well-of-memes every time you talked to him or looked at him superficially, but when you examine his actions objectively... he's a terrifying, dangerously genre-savvy villain who has clearly had a great deal of experience (or read the evil overlord list several times), studied his opponent, and taken note of everything that Sovereign did wrong. His first action? To identify his primary threat (Shepard) and not talk, not brag, but simply destroy them unceremoniously and with overwhelming force. When he sees your ship destroyed, your body cast into the void, torn apart, and burning through re-entry on a frozen hell, does he accept you as dead? No, he spends two years and a large portion of his resources trying to confirm the kill, and fails by the smallest of margins only because the combined efforts of Liara T'soni, Aria T'loak, and the full might of a not-quite-insane-yet Cerberus were arrayed specifically to preserve your corpse. Then when his (admittedly inadequate) minions engage you in combat and he starts talking to you? The first and most frequent thing he says to you is a lie that most of you probably never noticed, because he never assumes direct control. That's what Sovereign did, and it lead to him getting killed because as soon as Shepard took down his avatar his main body became vulnerable enough that a stealth frigate could destroy it in one-on-one combat. So instead Harbinger directly controls the Collector General, safe in his fortress, uses them as a proxy to throw supercharged minions at you continually, and abandons them the moment before any serious harm could come to them. And finally, the entire plot of the second game, running around the galaxy ruining your reputation, using up resources, destroying what credibility you had and basically setting up the galaxy for an invasion down the line because the Collectors had to be stopped now? You did all that for nothing. I mean sure, if you'd failed or ignored the issue things would have been over a lot quicker, the best distractions are the ones you can't ignore even if your recognize them, but in the end you were run ragged and probably lost a lot of good resources fighting an incidental side-plot of Harbinger's. It cost him one worthless base, one cruiser, and a few thousand minions we've already established to be incompetent, and his other plans weren't interfered with in the slightest. All your efforts and all your sacrifices managed to distract him momentarily and maybe even slightly inconvenience him. Congratulations.

By all rights, Harbinger should have been the player's dark mirror in ME3, a terrifying chessmaster arranging Reaper forces to best effect, sparking plots Shepard needed to constantly stamp out, manipulating people to break the alliances you were forming, etc. and on very rare occasions moving in to personally destroy incredibly valuable targets that you thought to be safe and secret. Engaging him, if you ever managed it, should have been the most difficult and satisfying moment in the game regardless of how many Reapers were objectively more powerful or higher ranking. Instead, he never appeared in the third game, presumably because he heard what they was doing to his race and left before he could be tainted by the ending.

[CamoBadger]

Not talk? But...that's all Harbinger ever did? Every other time he 'assumed control' of a minion he would say things out of left field about why each species is inferior and useless to him, or why humans were ideal for what he wanted, but were still stains on the carpet compared to him.
It may be due to the second game being more combat focused than the first (which was more plot driven and more 'solve the mystery' kind of thing, which Sovereign fit perfectly as the badguy at the end of the road). Either way, I've always preferred Sovereign because he just seemed so much more Reaperish to me than Harbinger. He manipulated key players to his needs, infected a species of AI to do whatever he wished, and made the entire Alliance fleet his bitch while trying to smack down Shepard at the same time; he was basically everything he claimed the Reapers to be.
In the end, he did mess up by transferring the majority of his being into Saren's corpse, especially since I think he already had control of the station, but I think that was more of a plot device (or we can chalk it up to Shepard pissing him off that badly).
Harbinger on the other hand, I saw as a joke compared to Sovereign. His plot to create another Reaper was ruined by a team of misfits against an entire army. His plan to get to the galaxy faster was thwarted by Shepard (again!) in the Arrival DLC. And then in the last game...did he do anything at all? (Not even going to mention the apparent incompetance of every other Reaper who could have killed Shepard during any of the times he was running around on some planet with 2 other people...)

[Sindri]

Not talk? But...that's all Harbinger ever did? Every other time he 'assumed control' of a minion he would say things out of left field about why each species is inferior and useless to him, or why humans were ideal for what he wanted, but were still stains on the carpet compared to him.

Yes, he does an awful lot of talking to distract you. Rhetoric intended to anger you, to make you feel like you've accomplished something, and outright lies. While he was getting shit done in the background. And look how well the distraction worked on you.

Either way, I've always preferred Sovereign because he just seemed so much more Reaperish to me than Harbinger. He manipulated key players to his needs, infected a species of AI to do whatever he wished, and made the entire Alliance fleet his bitch while trying to smack down Shepard at the same time; he was basically everything he claimed the Reapers to be.

Yes, he was incredibly powerful (physically the strongest of the Reapers, IIRC) and he liked to show it. A lot. He personally destroyed targets that he could easily have delegated to minions, he bragged to you every chance he got and repeatedly refrained from actually killing Shepard, and all of his manipulations were either transparent and no more than half effective, or used brute force indoctrination. Dramatic? Of course. Scary? Maybe. Effective? Only until he hit a harder, cleverer rock than himself.

In the end, he did mess up by transferring the majority of his being into Saren's corpse, especially since I think he already had control of the station, but I think that was more of a plot device (or we can chalk it up to Shepard pissing him off that badly).

Yes, his hubris and rage made him take leave of his senses so thoroughly that he lowered himself to taking on a turian form and engaging you in personal combat. After he saw on multiple occasions that you were incredibly skilled in personal combat, but powerless against a starship. He could have destroyed the fleet and dealt with you at his leisure. He could have vaporized the entire room you were in with a thought. Instead he sat in the middle of a fleet that could not touch him so long as his concentration did not slip, and sent his mind away to a doomed vessel.

Harbinger on the other hand, I saw as a joke compared to Sovereign. His plot to create another Reaper was ruined by a team of misfits against an entire army. His plan to get to the galaxy faster was thwarted by Shepard (again!) in the Arrival DLC. And then in the last game...did he do anything at all? (Not even going to mention the apparent incompetance of every other Reaper who could have killed Shepard during any of the times he was running around on some planet with 2 other people...)

In the second game, including DLC, you ran after his distractions and slightly inconvenienced him, losing good soldiers, powerful allies, and expensive resources at every step. He lost... an incidental side-plot and a minor shortcut. You feel good about your petty victories and lose sight of what you've lost and how little you're really accomplished. Because he never needed that human Reaper. He never needed that shortcut. The Reapers had waited for 50,002 years; another month doesn't even register for them. But their only serious foe is now imprisoned, the young races are at the brink of war among themselves, so many of those who might have stood against them are dead, and none are looking outward... in the end, what did they lose? What did you gain? Are you still so confident that you won these rounds?


And then the third game fucked everything up, because suddenly the Reapers aren't ageless, omnipotent machine-gods come to harvest you, they're silly toys of a retarded child. I think we can safely pretend ME3 never happened for this discussion?

[Vergil]

Am I the only one who can't wait for the goddess to die?

Spoiler:

Amen.

[Admiral Stoic Rum]

.. Mass Effect... what? We all agree Goddess scary. No terrifying. Pulling things from BJs mind like silence. Horrid.

[nebulous]

@pain discussion: Is everyone else here a tough-as-nails badass who went through hell and can take down any mugger in four seconds? Am I the only one in this thread who's never been in a fight and hasn't felt anything worse than a hairline bone crack? o_0

Cyberzebras with identical stripes... I'd guess that the zebra nation invented artificial wombs and put cells in each womb from one blastocyst, effectively making them identical n-lets, since that would be easier than cloning where you have to get an egg for every womb. But there's been the implication that stripes are an expression of the soul. (Which I don't like, I thought glyph marks were the soul expression. But ah well. No reason there can't be an incomprehensible soul pattern over the whole body as well as an understandable soul pattern on the flank.)

[Sindri]

@pain discussion: Is everyone else here a tough-as-nails badass who went through hell and can take down any mugger in four seconds? Am I the only one in this thread who's never been in a fight and hasn't felt anything worse than a hairline bone crack? o_0

Nope! Never broken a bone, not even hairline cracks. Actually never felt pain worse than my migraines. Those are rather unpleasant, especially with my apparent immunity to most painkillers, but I'm not going to try to compare them to any of the other things mentioned here, until and unless I have the misfortune to experience those for reference purposes.

Cyberzebras with identical stripes... I'd guess that the zebra nation invented artificial wombs and put cells in each womb from one blastocyst, effectively making them identical n-lets, since that would be easier than cloning where you have to get an egg for every womb. But there's been the implication that stripes are an expression of the soul. (Which I don't like, I thought glyph marks were the soul expression. But ah well. No reason there can't be an incomprehensible soul pattern over the whole body as well as an understandable soul pattern on the flank.)

I was under the impression that the simulacra were just very realistic robots. No organic parts, and the identical features indicating that they were built on the same design rather than any sort of cloning. And yeah, stripes should be more like fingerprints than like cutie marks.

[Tytan]

@Vergil

Hallelujah Brother.

@Nebulous

Yes.

[Admiral Stoic Rum]

No you're not the only one... aside from catching what could have been a knockout punch in the Marines. Chipped my tooth. I am proud to say I did not go down.

[O. Hinds]

Cyberzebras with identical stripes... I'd guess that the zebra nation invented artificial wombs and put cells in each womb from one blastocyst, effectively making them identical n-lets, since that would be easier than cloning where you have to get an egg for every womb. But there's been the implication that stripes are an expression of the soul. (Which I don't like, I thought glyph marks were the soul expression. But ah well. No reason there can't be an incomprehensible soul pattern over the whole body as well as an understandable soul pattern on the flank.)

I was under the impression that the simulacra were just very realistic robots. No organic parts, and the identical features indicating that they were built on the same design rather than any sort of cloning. And yeah, stripes should be more like fingerprints than like cutie marks.

They all looked the same. Zebra stallions. Same black armor. Same weapons. Same stripes... and the gutted stallion hadn’t just spilled his organs. There were wires and cables dangling from that gory cavity.

Just. And it wouldn't be particularly gory even if there was some big lubricant or hydraulic fluid leakage or something. I'm not sure how they're made or what the proportions are, but they're cyborgs.

[RoboRed]

@pain discussion: Is everyone else here a tough-as-nails badass who went through hell and can take down any mugger in four seconds? Am I the only one in this thread who's never been in a fight and hasn't felt anything worse than a hairline bone crack? o_0

Nah, I've never been in a fight or broken anything. About the worst injuries I've had are a accidental 9-iron to the face, a sprained ankle, a sprained knee, and accidentally cutting my finger open with a knife.

[Icy Shake]

I haven't been in a fight since elementary school, and have never broken bones or anything. The worst pain I've ever faced was probably related to braces or oral surgery. Miscellaneous minor cuts, burns, and impacts never really compared.

[Ironmonger]

I've never been in an actual fight, but I have hurt people without provocation. As a kid I was put on Riddlin and it made me so aggressive that I was straight-up assaulting other kids at the slightest annoyance. Not fun....okay it was a little fun. I won't engage anyone in hand-to-hand combat since I could easily lose myself to the fight, which is why I'd carry a 9mm.

@Chapter 50

I want to murder the goddess now after what she did to blackjack.

[Ketchup]

@Pain.
Well, for me it's one of three things.
I cut through my pinkie finger with a knife, through the fingernail. I have a scar from it, so it must've been pretty deep.
The one time I ever had a migraine. Nasty.
The most recent one, a sharp pain and tightness in the heart area. I wasn't sure if I was dying or what, but I'm fine now.
Oh, and the time I fell through some ice and had to walk about a kilometer in minus 15-20 with a sweater on afterwards. I prefer warmer environments because of it.
Nothing really comparable to some of the other experiences here, of course.

[Valikdu]

In the second game, including DLC, you ran after his distractions and
slightly inconvenienced him, losing good soldiers, powerful allies, and
expensive resources at every step. He lost... an incidental side-plot
and a minor shortcut. You feel good about your petty victories and lose
sight of what you've lost and how little you're really accomplished.

The question is, was this intentional? Was the story of ME2 *supposed* to be about Shepard only managing to achieve a little insignificant victory against Harbinger, or was it actually supposed to be a story of a great achievement and is only insignificant now, when we look back at it and think: "what the hell was I doing that entire game?"?

Mind you, I liked that story. Or "stories", as ME2's story is structured like a big hollowed-out book with a dozen small books concealed inside. And they're good ones, too. Although somehow, the supposedly main storyline is just one of the little books, only slightly bigger than the others.

[Harmony Ltd.]

Chapter 50 :


My reaction to this chapter's last paragraph :

Spoiler:

I have to ask : Am I the only one that was left... jaded (?) by the death of the yellow filly in Chapel ? I mean, personally, I didn't feel emotionally impacted, contrary to Blackjack who was already in full guilt-trip mode by the time the situation registered in her mind. The way I felt is... I felt nothing. Maybe it's because I wasn't reading it properly, in the right state of mind ? So I ask, how did you react to the whole scene ? Did it impact you ?

I would say, though, that considering the reactions of almost everyone else present to the death of the filly (or more accurately, the lack of visible reaction thereof), I suppose that the effect was intended ? Like a reminder of how life in Wasteland suck, and how dulled to the other's pain its inhabitant are through their constant misery ? That the circumstances force them to shut their own empathy ?

Or am I reading too much into my own inability to feel something here ?

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