Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

[O. Hinds]

Word from/of Somber: The age thing isn't a problem; if anyone knew exactly how old P-21 is, they're probably dead now.

[Caoimhe]

P-21 is the dealer's physical form. BJ couldn't give him a gun because he didn't exist/he's a metaphor for BJ's conscience, meaning giving him a gun would have meant she was accepting suicide. Scotch doesn't exist either and is BJ's visual acceptance of motherhood.

The Wasteland at large is a figment of her imagination. Also BJ never woke up to start her shift and it's also a dream AND in space AND also on Earth AND in Tommy Westphall's snowglobe next to St. Elsewhere AND Somber is also you who is reading this who is also Lauren Faust which means PH is viral marketing for Season 3 so everyone was tricked by Hasbro's master plan to invent brony fandom.

Calling it now. Give me a medal.


No, Blackjack, Big Daddy, Deus, Rampage and Psychoshy: YOU are the Reapers.

[IncoherentOrange]

Hidden meanings should not be theorized, not even jokingly; it brains my hurt.

[Caoimhe]

Basically: Good luck with 50, Somber. We love you! :)

[Kippershy]

@Hinds
I agree that Blackjack shouldn't be held particularly responsible for her actions, as they were natural for her after having grown up in 99. I don't think Glory's going to be particularly reasonable, is all.
And are you sure P-21 is 22? Is it implied that a single new male comes into circulation every year? I was under the impression that more than one could, so you could advance in number three or four times in a given year as new males hit breeding age (16?).

No, I'm not sure. I also seem to remember that the activation age was fifteen, not sixteen (or, as below, fourteen), but I also seem to remember that, given the original data, the math pointed to P-21 being an octogenarian (yes, really). The issue was Closed shortly after that, I believe, and, while I believe that I came to some satisfying conclusion about the arrangement, I do not remember what that might have been.

An octogenarian? I find that hard to believe, personally. my personal head-canon puts him somewhere around his 30's (specifically, no lower then 32), and Blackjack around 25 or so.
Of course, if Somber said otherwise, then his word is law and lore, but to me, he seems middle aged rather then old geezer.

Don't forget, Blackjack broke him in. He can't be THAT old unless SHE'S that old... and she's far from that old.

No no, you misunderstand. Somber didn't say that; the math that he hadn't done (because he is a writer/English teacher rather than a nitpicky physics/engineering major) said that. Thence came the disagreement.

Oh no no, this is you misunderstanding me.
This time I win! MWHAHAHAHAHAH!
Oh.. wait.. I lose because I didn't make myself clear.

What I meant was; unless Somber were to go and say that P-21 is indeed a very, very old buck, then as far as I'm concerned, he's about 35 or so (give or take).


So yeah, that's what I meant with what I said, as poorly as I put it to you.
and by disagreement, do you mean this is what caused the whole mini fallout thing?
Or was that something else entirely that no-one will ever know about apart from you lot?

[O. Hinds]

@Hinds
I agree that Blackjack shouldn't be held particularly responsible for her actions, as they were natural for her after having grown up in 99. I don't think Glory's going to be particularly reasonable, is all.
And are you sure P-21 is 22? Is it implied that a single new male comes into circulation every year? I was under the impression that more than one could, so you could advance in number three or four times in a given year as new males hit breeding age (16?).

No, I'm not sure. I also seem to remember that the activation age was fifteen, not sixteen (or, as below, fourteen), but I also seem to remember that, given the original data, the math pointed to P-21 being an octogenarian (yes, really). The issue was Closed shortly after that, I believe, and, while I believe that I came to some satisfying conclusion about the arrangement, I do not remember what that might have been.

An octogenarian? I find that hard to believe, personally. my personal head-canon puts him somewhere around his 30's (specifically, no lower then 32), and Blackjack around 25 or so.
Of course, if Somber said otherwise, then his word is law and lore, but to me, he seems middle aged rather then old geezer.

Don't forget, Blackjack broke him in. He can't be THAT old unless SHE'S that old... and she's far from that old.

No no, you misunderstand. Somber didn't say that; the math that he hadn't done (because he is a writer/English teacher rather than a nitpicky physics/engineering major) said that. Thence came the disagreement.

Oh no no, this is you misunderstanding me.
This time I win! MWHAHAHAHAHAH!
Oh.. wait.. I lose because I didn't make myself clear.

What I meant was; unless Somber were to go and say that P-21 is indeed a very, very old buck, then as far as I'm concerned, he's about 35 or so (give or take).


So yeah, that's what I meant with what I said, as poorly as I put it to you.
and by disagreement, do you mean this is what caused the whole mini fallout thing?
Or was that something else entirely that no-one will ever know about apart from you lot?

Oh, I apologize for misunderstanding, then.

Oh no. This was something significantly earlier and less bad; the other thing was something else. I actually thought that you did already know, but if you don't... well, no offense, but I think that it would be likely be better if it just wasn't brought up again, at least here.

[Kippershy]

Oh, I apologize for misunderstanding, then.

Oh no. This was something significantly earlier and less bad; the other thing was something else. I actually thought that you did already know, but if you don't... well, no offense, but I think that it would be likely be better if it just wasn't brought up again, at least here.

That's fine, of course. Some things should be left well alone and hence me suggesting this might be the case.
Nah, I never found out personally. I don't know who did find out, either.

and again, my bad for not being clear in my speech. I do see how easy it was to misinterpret it.

[Sindri]

IIRC, Blackjack is 21 and P-21 is 22; I don't think that we ever got a definite age for Glory, though.

Wait, what? P-21 has served out his full "career" in 99, including killing at least one colt to delay his retirement. For him to be 21, there would need to be at least like five times the number of underage colts as there were active bucks. Not to mention that he'd have to have had Scotch when he was like, ten.


My impression has always been that P-21 was in his upper thirties or low forties, Blackjack a bit younger than him in the low-mid thirties, and Glory just out of med school in the late twenties, but with little enough real world experience to have the maturity of the low twenties or maybe even upper teens.

Going by the xkcd creepyness formula, if we call Blackjack, say, 34? She could have an acceptable relationship with anyone over 24 (or under 54, with a *wonk* from Keeper).

Incidentally, putting P-21 at 40 with an activation age of 15 means that a male is active for 63% of their life, so with 40 active males (20 unicorn, 20 EP) there would need to be a total of ~63 males total alive at a given time, with ~23 underage, which is perfectly viable. I don't know where octogenarian came from, but this really isn't a problem. This doesn't take into account the colts killed to delay things (which, given that one little death would give twenty stallions at least an extra year to live...) but if less than 2/3 of them were surviving to activation medical would have done something to prevent further killings, and 30 colts for a total of 70 males is still easily supported in a Stable of 500. 70 males to 430 females (or 500, depending on whether the males were counted for population) is more than a 6:1 (7:1) ratio, which fits both with observed birth ratios in the show and with the system laid out for 99 by Somber. Whether or not the math was done before writing, it all works out without any problems now.

[Sindri]

Why 20 unicorns and 20 earth ponies? I thought there were 20 active males total at any given time.

P-1 through P-20 and U-1 through U-20.

I'm not sure how that creepyness formula is supposed to apply since no one is dating anyone here. There are no relationships.

Blackjack and Glory, which some might wince at if BJ was mid thirties and MG was mid twenties. It's on the edge of the scale, but still perfectly viable.

I also figure 99 had ways to either ensure female births or identify and terminate male births, as I doubt most females would be happy about the idea of going through pregnancy with the knowledge that they won't be producing their heir and, therefore, are going to have to do it all over again at some point or other. I wouldn't be surprised if there were lots assigned, much like the breeding cue, that mandated a female to get pregnant with a male when males were needed. You might think that this would have then caused 99 to try and keep a tight watch to make sure colts reached maturity without incident, but everyone in 99 is also lazy, and throwing another mare's name at the bottom of the queue would be easier than having separate cells for every male to ensure their safety from each other, or from particularly punishing a male that killed another male, since keeping all of them in shape for breeding was their primary concern.

Possible, but unnecessary. About 1/7 of births would be male given the observed ~6:1 ratio of the ponies we've seen in canon. What we've heard so far about reproductive procedure in 99 is that when a mare's mother died, her implant was taken out until she had a daughter to train as her replacement. 1/7 of the time she'd give birth to a male, toss him to medical, and go back on the breeding queue. Pregnancy is easier on pretty much every other mammal than it is on humans, so she wouldn't have much of a problem with this especially considering that it's her duty to provide "equipment" to future generations. And she'd be given preferential placement on the queue until she got pregnant again which is always a plus in a Stable where that's your only legal form of entertainment.

[FeatherDust]

is that how they are named? Here I thought they just named each male a letter of the alphabet so that they'd at least have some sort of consistent moniker throughout their lives for the sake of the mares that liked the play favorites and might not always be aware of when their favorite buck just increased in number. I mean, Duct Tape was able to consistently request P-21. The overmare, too, though she didn't likely use the breeding queue. I assumed it was somewhat common practice to have a preferred buck.

Nope. That's part if the dehumanization, they are not even allowed to have a real name. That's why he chose to stay P-21. Because the number means he won. He's 21 and not dead.

[Meleagridis]

Well, I'll give it a try some time. Hopefully I'll find people with the know-how to correct me properly. I'll just need a zebra-style punny name for Mr. Moto.

Wow; I didn't expect anyone to actually make it. Would you be following the same plot as closely as possible (the one about airplane fuel might give trouble there...) or just making something similar? Also, I think that it might be fun and appropriate to have it genderswapped.

Oh, one particular word of caution: depending on when you decide to set it, you'll probably want to pay particular attention to when various things were invented.

Speak and they listen. I've counted no less than three authors in these comments, not counting the obvious superbly talented ones. Throw ideas on here, you never know who may be inspired.

That said, I write as a hobby and not a passion. This is going on my list, somewhere after things like the Great Cows migrate to Cow Guai territory. When I get there, it probably won't be much more than a short diddy, most likely paralleling one the original plots. But I'll do as much as I can to make it worth someone's time, and I'll try to fix any errors or inconsistencies the more attentive readers will point out.

On further introspection, this makes me realise something terrible. I've only ever watched Mr. Moto. I feel like an illiterate slob now. Time for a trip to the local library!

[Caoimhe]

I'm going to say an equestrian year is probably something different and mlp ponies are probably not identical to human lifespan (although similiar). Again if Somber wrote the ages and male timespan things for story's sake, then it's probably as fucked and up in the air as the FoE timeline.

Also the stable didn't have seasons or any weather so a year in there could mean anything really. It's a lot better thinking P-21 is probably slightly older than BJ but they all have this 20sish maturity. At least that's headcanon for me.

Sorry for bringing all this up originally. Sounds like it's a touchy subject. :X

is that how they are named? Here I thought they just named each male a letter of the alphabet so that they'd at least have some sort of consistent moniker throughout their lives for the sake of the mares that liked the play favorites and might not always be aware of when their favorite buck just increased in number. I mean, Duct Tape was able to consistently request P-21. The overmare, too, though she didn't likely use the breeding queue. I assumed it was somewhat common practice to have a preferred buck.

Nope. That's part if the dehumanization, they are not even allowed to have a real name. That's why he chose to stay P-21. Because the number means he won. He's 21 and not dead.

Considering P-21 was the runt of the litter, I wonder how many times mares requested a buff and enthusiastic stallion one number above him, forgetting a new colt just entered the pool, and ended up with the scrawny, effeminate blue buck with the problem getting it up :P

Interesting. This would mean that buff dudes would get killed off quicker, filling most of the 42 active in the breeding queue with unattractive dudes. I guess it doesn't really pay to be handsome besides getting fucked a lot. Live fast and die young I guess?

P-21 must have been the oldest there considering all the problems he has. If this was the case it would have been cool to expand on it. It makes the P-21 and Duct Tape relationship mean a little more as does his relationship as the Overmare's preferred fucktoy.

[O. Hinds]

Well, I'll give it a try some time. Hopefully I'll find people with the know-how to correct me properly. I'll just need a zebra-style punny name for Mr. Moto.

Wow; I didn't expect anyone to actually make it. Would you be following the same plot as closely as possible (the one about airplane fuel might give trouble there...) or just making something similar? Also, I think that it might be fun and appropriate to have it genderswapped.

Oh, one particular word of caution: depending on when you decide to set it, you'll probably want to pay particular attention to when various things were invented.

Speak and they listen. I've counted no less than three authors in these comments, not counting the obvious superbly talented ones. Throw ideas on here, you never know who may be inspired.

That said, I write as a hobby and not a passion. This is going on my list, somewhere after things like the Great Cows migrate to Cow Guai territory. When I get there, it probably won't be much more than a short diddy, most likely paralleling one the original plots. But I'll do as much as I can to make it worth someone's time, and I'll try to fix any errors or inconsistencies the more attentive readers will point out.

On further introspection, this makes me realise something terrible. I've only ever watched Mr. Moto. I feel like an illiterate slob now. Time for a trip to the local library!

...It appears that we may have been having two slightly different conversations...
[wikis]
Oh, that's what you've been talking about; I hadn't heard of that before. It sounds interesting too, though I still think that the Equestrian version of The Masked Marvel could be something to see.

[Sindri]

I'm going to say an equestrian year is probably something different and mlp ponies are probably not identical to human lifespan (although similiar). Again if Somber wrote the ages and male timespan things for story's sake, then it's probably as fucked and up in the air as the FoE timeline.

Again, why would there need to be any difference? All the math works out perfectly already, as I have explained multiple times.

Interesting. This would mean that buff dudes would get killed off quicker, filling most of the 42 active in the breeding queue with unattractive dudes. I guess it doesn't really pay to be handsome besides getting fucked a lot. Live fast and die young I guess?

Why? One stallion, the former P/U-20, is killed every time a colt reaches the age at which they enter the queue as P/U-1. The frequency with which they are chosen while active is completely irrelevant to their lifespan.

[Caoimhe]

I thought they advanced each time they successfully sired a foal on the queue? I guess not, dunno why I figured that.

[FeatherDust]

I thought they advanced each time they successfully sired a foal on the queue? I guess not, dunno why I figured that.

I made the same mistake.

I think it was because in BJ's dream/vision, P-21's mares had marks representing the number of births they'd had.

[Admiral Stoic Rum]

Meh I'd put p21 at 26 at the oldest

[FoolNeim]

Didn't P-21 outright admit that he killed at least one colt to stave off either his or U-17's euthanasia (I forget which)? Not to mention drug overdose might have claimed a breeding colt or two. I think there might be a little more wiggle room here. Just my two cents on that.

[FoolNeim]

@O. Hinds @Icy Shake: it's sometimes hard to keep track of all the characters in this story so I didn't connect that Blackjack might have killed Dusk's lover, which would earn Dusk's enmity probably for life, which would certainly outdo her sleeping with Stygius in Glory's eyes. However, as a writing issue, maiming Dusk is not confirmed, considering the sort of injuries ponies can rebound from in the wasteland. I also was thinking that Dusk and Glory are probably not on speaking terms now or the forseeable future, even if they reconciled a bit after Dusk lost a wing. Dusk is not going to go out of her way to find Glory right now and Glory will probably outright avoid any Enclave pegasi as long as the killing joke curse is in effect. Furthermore while Blackjack nearly killing Boing (even while being pursued by Harbingers and mistaking her for an enemy) is objectively much worse than sleeping with Stygius, I seriously doubt that it's going to register nearly as much with Glory, who may or may not even find out about it. Even if it did I think it would register about as much as a police officer inadvertently non-fatally shooting a child in the line of duty. That police officer's husband or wife will almost always forgive them and understand. The bad feelings over Boing seems to be almost entirely between Boing, Blackjack, and herself.

You are right that infidelity probably is not the best term for what Blackjack did with Stygius, but from Glory's standpoint obviously she is going to be devastated and it would be strange if she wasn't. The fact that Blackjack didn't know what she was doing for is the only reason I can see any possibility of near-term reconciliation <em>at all</em>. Separating them for 5-6 chapters isn't going to kill the story.

From a writing standpoint, unless I'm missing something the biggest obstacle I can see to reconciliation is the fact that Glory (and everyone else) knows about Stygius. She doesn't know about Dusk, and if Dusk managed to avoid being crippled and her s.o. wasn't killed, Blackjack attacking a group of Enclave pegasi in battle is not something Glory will have to wrap her head around to understand. She'll be freaked out but not humiliated.

[Sindri]

Given that Blackjack's probably going to spend an extended period recounting all her activities while they were apart, Glory will probably find out about all of this. But there's a big difference between hearing of something like that as part of a confession and hearing about it thirdhand and having days to stew before she gets back. So yes, Stygius is the biggest immediate issue, but likely not the biggest long-term one.


Personally I don't think that the idea of Blackjack's unwitting "betrayal" is as big of an issue as the psychological effects it's likely to have on Glory. She started out with a kinda severe inferiority complex. Then things got slightly better for her when she first got together with Blackjack... only to get much, much worse when Blackjack ran off to kill herself and Glory "wasn't enough" reason to bother to live. Now, right when she's starting to go through all manner of issues with losing her body and maybe part of her identity, Blackjack runs off and has sex with somepony else. Because, once again, she wasn't enough. And Glory heard about that days ago and has had nothing to do but stew on it, driving herself deeper and deeper into those feelings... as soon as the shallow top layer of righteous anger burns off, her real mental state is going to be unpleasant.

[Derpmind]

Let me just write type this out. Blackjack will try to explain to Glory that for Blackjack, her love for Glory is more important than sex. Glory comes from a culture that (probably) values love above sex, but treats sex with other people than your partner as a betrayal of love. Blackjack doesn't want to betray Glory, so somewhere in the conversation Blackjack will state (one way or another) that she's willing to never have sex with anyone but Glory if she will forgive her. Because Blackjack loves Glory and that love, the pony named Morning Glory, is something no amount of sex in or out of 99 could ever compare to. Of the many ways the conversation could go, once Blackjack gets over the confusion caused by learning about Glory's bizarre culture, the knee-jerk reaction Blackjack's gonna have is to say and do anything to get Glory to forgive her. Things are very unlikely to end there, but I don't see the conversation not reaching that point.

Does that actually add anything to the conversation here? Well, I dono, I have to go now so that's where my paragraph of something ends.

[Valikdu]

P-21 is the dealer's physical form. BJ couldn't give him a gun because he didn't exist/he's a metaphor for BJ's conscience, meaning giving him a gun would have meant she was accepting suicide. Scotch doesn't exist either and is BJ's visual acceptance of motherhood.

The Wasteland at large is a figment of her imagination. Also BJ never woke up to start her shift and it's also a dream AND in space AND also on Earth AND in Tommy Westphall's snowglobe next to St. Elsewhere AND Somber is also you who is reading this who is also Lauren Faust which means PH is viral marketing for Season 3 so everyone was tricked by Hasbro's master plan to invent brony fandom.

Calling it now. Give me a medal.


No, Blackjack, Big Daddy, Deus, Rampage and Psychoshy: YOU are the Reapers.

[RoboRed]

Sooo...uhh...found this...:


Kinda sad, but true in most instances, don'tcha think?

[O. Hinds]

Sooo...uhh...found this...:


Kinda sad, but true in most instances, don'tcha think?

The picture isn't displaying for me.

[RoboRed]

How about now?

[CamoBadger]

...sad, but oh so true...

[IncoherentOrange]

Sooo...uhh...found this...:

Yes, yes indeed. By this chart, my fics are 95% nothing.

[O. Hinds]

How about now?

Ah, yes, it's working now.

[Caoimhe]

No sliver for "inserting oneself as fantasy being of virtue?" I'm surprised.

Hooray my evidence of too much free time has increased as I'm a unicorn now. Bitches, I'm horny!

[OneMoreDaySK]

How's everyone doing today?

Random Question: Anyone see any good games on Greenlight? Or for the matter, how to access Greenlight anymore?

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