Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

[Jeremyrush]

Jesus, do you people like any character in this story?

[CamoBadger]

Consider the following:

Blackjack is the element of Forgiveness

...which may explain it. I don't believe in forgiveness.

Oooh! I do!
I have to :)

You have to?

Yes.

Would you mind if I ask why? (not trying to be a dick, just curious)

...'cause otherwise I couldn't live with myself?
Not that our situations are similar, but have you done nothing that you needed to be forgiven for?

There are a few things that I probably should want to be, but the way I see it, asking for forgiveness is just a way to get out of taking responsibility for your actions. So I do not ask for forgiveness for the things I do, it doesn't change that I did those things, it doesn't change what happened because of them. I live with what I've caused, and I accept it.

[Rboy474]

I can't help I'm at fault for this whole fiasco.... Totally worth it.

[NoodleNugget]

Jesus, do you people like any character in this story?

I like everyone generally. except goldenblood, he's a dick.
but everyone else is A-ok in my opinion.
especially Stygglesworth and Boo

[Moodyman90]

I love all the characters! Especially the ones I hate.
Of course out of all of them I'm pretty sure Boo is the only one I want hang out with. Well, Scotch in small doses , I love kids but they tend to wear on me. Oh and Lacunae because she needs a friend.

Now if I was a drinking man Blackjack would probably be fun to hang out with.

[CamoBadger]

There are a few things that I probably should want to be, but the way I see it, asking for forgiveness is just a way to get out of taking responsibility for your actions. So I do not ask for forgiveness for the things I do, it doesn't change that I did those things, it doesn't change what happened because of them. I live with what I've caused, and I accept it.

Ah.
I'm not sure how to do that.
At the very least, there's no such thing as equivalent loss or pain. If someone killed your brother, would you kill his brother back? Kill him, resulting in HIS brother wanting revenge? Everything is so subjective. I don't understand justice, duty, anything. It's a muddle for me, for various reasons.
Even theft... is it the money that you give back? What do you factor into the judgement? How much each party needed, or planned to use, the money? What if the money can't be given back? What if the sudden loss of money caused the hurt party to lose even more? Or it had some impact to their health? It's insanity.

In the end you try to make things even and ask if the harmed party is okay. Assuming it's even as cut and dry as that. While I'm perfectly capable of making judgements regarding what I might personally consider to be appropriate consequences I would hardly consider them right or justified in any universal sense. You just do your best.

Kill their brother for killing mine? No, I'll kill whoever did it.

I see justice in a bit darker way than others: your punishment should match your crime.
If you kill, you die. If you steal, everything you own is taken and given to those you stole from. Sadly this can't happen because the world is becoming more about 'forgiving' or 'changing' those who commit crimes, and because of it I have absolutely no faith in our current justice system.

[Guest]

Jesus, do you people like any character in this story?

I love every character. Especially Glory, I love her adorkableness so much!

The only character I hate would be Steel Rain, He can go die in a fire. He did something you never do and that is betraying your brothers in arms. That is just vile it strips any and all respect you may have had. There are no words for how much I loath someone that can betray the people that would lay down their life for them.

[CamoBadger]

An eye for an eye leaves the world bliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiind :3

lol, okay, normally people saying that makes me mad, but I just pictured your avatar saying that, and that is so morbidly funny I can't stop laughing.

But yes, I basically do believe in 'eye for an eye'. It would certainly work better than "spend countless tax dollars to keep murderers alive with free healthcare and education".

[Guest]

I don't quite understand all the
Blackjack hate. I mean, I know I'm staring directly at an approaching
train wreck, but you only have to consider BJ's position for a moment to
realize what's going on here. Hell, males were breeding equipment
to her a month or so ago. No mare she's ever had a relationship with
had the slightest objection when she came up on the breeding queue. Why
should they?
It's a warped view from our perspective, but an easy one to sympathize with.

I think that depends a bit too much on her not understanding Glory's perspective. “Don’t tear yourself down like that… even if you’re joking. I’m glad I was finally able to do that with you. I don’t want to do it with anypony else.” I just kinda feel like she could only do it with Stygius if she ignored that. And she did say she had some pent up resentment for Glory. So that's what I'm going with.

[OneMoreDaySK]

Just finished the chapter. Who needs sleep? :p
Kind of feeling ambivalent to the chapter as a whole. Not sure what to think of styggius for the moment. Loving the ton of bg character development. Laughed at the strange to clear to be imagined up dream. Kind of confused to where in the fo:e timeline this is. Not looking too good for batpony at the moment, so unless he goes fus roh da on Steel Rain, SR not actually wanting to fight, or something random like the rad boom goes off and BJ gets über magic, kind of screwed for the moment.

Also, what's the current popular idea that Dealer is?

[Kippershy]

Fuck you Somber, you make me feel dirty.
For quite some time (the majority) of my... sleep or dreams or whatever it was last night, I couldn't help but think about BJ loving getting laid.

I don't even know how to feel about it being all I could think of xD

[OneMoreDaySK]

An eye for an eye leaves the world bliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiind :3

lol, okay, normally people saying that makes me mad, but I just pictured your avatar saying that, and that is so morbidly funny I can't stop laughing.

But yes, I basically do believe in 'eye for an eye'. It would certainly work better than "spend countless tax dollars to keep murderers alive with free healthcare and education".

Oh boy. But what about blood feuds? Or people who are desperate for food stealing a loaf of bread? Suddenly I'm reminded of Victor Hugo and Dickens novels. I just thin that sort of ideology leads to mutually assured destruction.

[Aonee]

I'll be honest. I love all the characters. Even when BJ makes me flip tables in rage, I love her all the more for it... And wow, I should comment more here instead of being on the RP thread so much... :p

[Necr0maNceR]

Since the enchantment on Lionheart's armor has managed to last this long, Stygius's armor has to be either a replica, or a set that was never enchanted.

Not necessarily. Lionheart was a Canterlot ghoul fused with his armor, and that might allow the enchantment to linger. Or it might not; this is presently undefined.

There is no evidence supporting that and plenty indicating that such a thing would be very unlikely. For starters, the armor has gotten melted up, especially where it has fused. I don't see how that could be anything but harmful to it (and yet the enchantment lingers, which is another reason why Stygius's armor is either a replica or was never enchanted). Also, there has been no evidence of objects fused with canterlot ghouls regenerating with them when they revive. As a matter of fact, Steelhooves's power armor could only repair itself if the spell matrix was working (and he had enough scrap). If either of those two conditions wasn't fulfilled, then the armor would not repair itself even if he regenerated. I also don't recall there being any change to the function of Littlepip's PipBuck after it was fused to her leg, other then the fact that she couldn't take it off anymore. Matrix disruption grenades could still knock it out. It wasn't linked to her magic anymore than it was before it got fused to her. The pink cloud may be magical, but the fusion it causes it only physical.

The fact this speech difference between Luna's guards and the other batponies wasn't explained in this chapter makes it seem almost at odds with Fo:E's lore.

Ah... Not really sure where you're seeing that problem. The quote from FoEc44 is

"The armor of the Palace Guards was enchanted by Princess Luna Herself that we may always speak in the Royal Canterlot Voice, so that our words would carry the proper weight!"

I do not know what you are trying to say. I already pointed out the enchantment on the armor. For starters, all the enchantment is supposed to do is let Lionheart talk loud. He doesn't say "thou speakest", "thy" or the royal "we" like Luna did, so the armor isn't letting him speak "Ye Olde Equestrian" or anything like that. To say that it is altering his voice not only to make it louder, but to form syllables that a batpony cannot form regularly is already a stretch as it is. The thing is, you may be saying that is Somber's intention now, but the fact is, it still hasn't been stated in the story. That's why it doesn't make sense. If Somber specifically states that in the story, than there isn't a problem.

The fact this speech difference between Luna's guards and the other batponies wasn't explained in this chapter makes it seem almost at odds with Fo:E's lore. A simple sentence like "Luna gave her guards armor that was enchanted to allow them to speak the way other ponies do" would have cleared things up. Perhaps Somber has some plan to explain it in the future, but as things stand, it doesn't really make sense.

I wouldn't say it conflicts with Fo:E's lore so much as it takes another view point. Perhaps Lionheart is a bat pony, given the fact that he is a ghoul it is likely that he has been distracted with undeath that a commonly used secondary language becomes more habitual than bat pony language, AND the fact that he did use to live 200 some odd years ago he most likely developed the lingual skill then.

The issue is not whether he is familiar with the equestrian language, but him being able to physically pronounce the syllables necessary to speak it. Plus, if he learned it over the course of two hundred years, that means he didn't know how to speak it in the first place. Why would Luna give him armor to amplify his voice if all he could do was screech? To give everyone a splitting headache?

Or his armor is enchanted(to an extent at this point, i say that mostly because he looks like a bat pony ghoul instead of a ghoul in disguise) to give him the illusion and he is just a pegasus, that works too. (who knows)

That doesn't seem likely, since the enchantment would have to know what decayed bat wings looked like, since that is how his wings look now. Decayed bat wings look a lot different than decayed bird wings. It would also have to know how to emulate decayed versions of the rest of the batpony features as well. Otherwise, the enchantment would make him look normal like the stuff in Flash Industries. Lionheart is definitely supposed to be a batpony.

Meanwhile Mr. Mcsuavestuff(Stygius) and his family have lived in seclusion for who knows how many years, most likely feeding off of the cave mushrooms and what ever could be considered viable prey(radhogs)(I think that they would have a more carnivorous diet because of the whole 'bat' element) the point is they would rarely see an outsider, let alone converse with them. Styggie obviously has developed a way to converse with outsiders(most likely because he is a hunter/scout and would generally spend most his time outside), but because he never had the need to verbally converse he never developed the skill to communicate in equestrian besides his chalkboard or whatever and his sign language. he still has bat pony language, but when it concerns non bat ponies it becomes irrelevant. Perhaps Styggie will take Blackjack back to the cave and this can be explained more and we can have drama without anything being said... well besides little bat pony squeaks and a whole bunch of pointing.

the thing i like best about Boo and Styggie is the fact that they don't have to say anything to be heard.

If the case was simply that he never learned but was still born with the ability to learn to speak equestrian, then he would still be capable of leaning to speak it now. He would simply have trouble with several syllables, and have a heavy accent.

It would not make sense for the batponies to have only lost their ability to speak normally in the last two hundred years since both batpony origin stories involve them already having been batponies and being isolated for a very long time. The second story for a thousand years, and the first for likely at least as long. That Why would they suddenly lose their ability to speak in the relatively short span of the past two hundred years and not earlier? They seem to have been fairly isolated from the highly irradiated areas, being that they are quite a ways away from the core and that their caves would act as natural fallout shelters.

I also hope things are explained more in the next chapter.

[CamoBadger]

An eye for an eye leaves the world bliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiind :3

lol, okay, normally people saying that makes me mad, but I just pictured your avatar saying that, and that is so morbidly funny I can't stop laughing.

But yes, I basically do believe in 'eye for an eye'. It would certainly work better than "spend countless tax dollars to keep murderers alive with free healthcare and education".

Oh, so you're a REPUBLICAN!
(I kid)
But seriously, some homeless dude breaks into a bakery or something at night to get out of the cold and to get something to eat.
Explain his punishment!
Some dude forgets, or just didn't know how in the first place, to securely attach his bike to the back of his car. It falls off and causes a twelve car pileup. What happens to him?
Assume it can be decisively proven that he absolutely thought he'd done it right, had done it many times before, maybe even had a friend double-check it and is at a complete loss as to what happened and absurdly remorseful that he caused such a thing to happen.

Basically: your world seems a lot simpler than mine.

I like my world simple

And nope, not republican, I keep no affiliation because I hate politics

Homeless guy: Since he presumably has nothing, ensure he does not steal again: take his hands.

Bike guy: Investigate the situation. If it was a freak accident, that's the end of it, there's nothing you can do about it. If it was somehow his fault, he is to pay for all of the damages he caused.

Oh boy. But what about blood feuds? Or people who are desperate for food stealing a loaf of bread? Suddenly I'm reminded of Victor Hugo and Dickens novels. I just thin that sort of ideology leads to mutually assured destruction.

I have no issue with blood feuds. If two families wish to settle their problems with each other, let them do it as long as they don't cause collateral damage. Once that occurs, time for law enforcement to step in and solve the situation for them.
For the desperate stealing bread, see above. Because surprisingly, there are people and groups in this world who will give food to the needy, FOR FREE.

[Moodyman90]

Fuck you Somber, you make me feel dirty.
For quite some time (the majority) of my... sleep or dreams or whatever it was last night, I couldn't help but think about BJ loving getting laid.

I don't even know how to feel about it being all I could think of xD

Well in the very least you had a good nights sleep? Haha

[jacky2734]

I'm back. Sorry for disappearing unexpectedly, but I had to help out the grandparents yesterday, one has skin cancer and just had a bunch of skin taken off and the other can barely get out of a chair and walk around.

Anyways, I'm back and I've read the latest chapter and I'd like to make some comments on it.

Spoiler:

One more thing, and I'm just throwing this out there to put in your guys' heads, Stygius+Psychoshy. Think about it.

[Ketchup]

One more thing, and I'm just throwing this out there to put in your guys' heads, Stygius+Psychoshy. Think about it.

[CamoBadger]

An eye for an eye leaves the world bliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiind :3

lol, okay, normally people saying that makes me mad, but I just pictured your avatar saying that, and that is so morbidly funny I can't stop laughing.

But yes, I basically do believe in 'eye for an eye'. It would certainly work better than "spend countless tax dollars to keep murderers alive with free healthcare and education".

Oh, so you're a REPUBLICAN!
(I kid)
But seriously, some homeless dude breaks into a bakery or something at night to get out of the cold and to get something to eat.
Explain his punishment!
Some dude forgets, or just didn't know how in the first place, to securely attach his bike to the back of his car. It falls off and causes a twelve car pileup. What happens to him?
Assume it can be decisively proven that he absolutely thought he'd done it right, had done it many times before, maybe even had a friend double-check it and is at a complete loss as to what happened and absurdly remorseful that he caused such a thing to happen.

Basically: your world seems a lot simpler than mine.

I like my world simple

And nope, not republican, I keep no affiliation because I hate politics

Homeless guy: Since he presumably has nothing, ensure he does not steal again: take his hands.

Bike guy: Investigate the situation. If it was a freak accident, that's the end of it, there's nothing you can do about it. If it was somehow his fault, he is to pay for all of the damages he caused.

Oh boy. But what about blood feuds? Or people who are desperate for food stealing a loaf of bread? Suddenly I'm reminded of Victor Hugo and Dickens novels. I just thin that sort of ideology leads to mutually assured destruction.

I have no issue with blood feuds. If two families wish to settle their problems with each other, let them do it as long as they don't cause collateral damage. Once that occurs, time for law enforcement to step in and solve the situation for them.
For the desperate stealing bread, see above. Because surprisingly, there are people and groups in this world who will give food to the needy, FOR FREE.

I have to admit, I laughed for a while at the idea of taking a homeless guy who was slowly dying of starvation and exposure, lobbing off his hands, then putting him back in the street going "Now, don't do that again, okay?"
A five dollar (or similarly cheap) loaf of bread suddenly equaling two hands XD

As for the bike incident, I meant to imply by twelve car pileup that at least one person probably died from the accident. Probably a kid that didn't buckle their seat.

XD, I've been called an extremist for a reason.

If someone dies because they didn't buckle their seatbelt, I don't feel bad for them. They messed up, too bad. And if it was a total accident, you still can't punish them for that. They had no effect on the event, so what can you blame them for?

[NoodleNugget]

If the case was simply that he never learned but was still born with the ability to learn to speak equestrian, then he would still be capable of leaning to speak it now. He would simply have trouble with several syllables, and have a heavy accent.

It would not make sense for the batponies to have only lost their ability to speak normally in the last two hundred years since both batpony origin stories involve them already having been batponies and being isolated for a very long time. The second story for a thousand years, and the first for likely at least as long. That Why would they suddenly lose their ability to speak in the relatively short span of the past two hundred years and not earlier? They seem to have been fairly isolated from the highly irradiated areas, being that they are quite a ways away from the core and that their caves would act as natural fallout shelters.

I also hope things are explained more in the next chapter.

perhaps the bat ponies were always isolationists with an allegiance to Luna because of her connection to night time. perhaps the bat ponies would send there best champions to the lunar princess, who would then learn equestrian after becoming enrolled as Luna's guard.

[O. Hinds]

Since the enchantment on Lionheart's armor has managed to last this long, Stygius's armor has to be either a replica, or a set that was never enchanted.

Not necessarily. Lionheart was a Canterlot ghoul fused with his armor, and that might allow the enchantment to linger. Or it might not; this is presently undefined.

There is no evidence supporting that and plenty indicating that such a thing would be very unlikely. For starters, the armor has gotten melted up, especially where it has fused. I don't see how that could be anything but harmful to it (and yet the enchantment lingers, which is another reason why Stygius's armor is either a replica or was never enchanted). Also, there has been no evidence of objects fused with canterlot ghouls regenerating with them when they revive. As a matter of fact, Steelhooves's power armor could only repair itself if the spell matrix was working (and he had enough scrap). If either of those two conditions wasn't fulfilled, then the armor would not repair itself even if he regenerated. I also don't recall there being any change to the function of Littlepip's PipBuck after it was fused to her leg, other then the fact that she couldn't take it off anymore. Matrix disruption grenades could still knock it out. It wasn't linked to her magic anymore than it was before it got fused to her. The pink cloud may be magical, but the fusion it causes it only physical.

Well, I'm not sure how unlikely it is, but it is still possible. You've made a good case, though, so I'm now leaning towards it being replica armor.

The fact this speech difference between Luna's guards and the other batponies wasn't explained in this chapter makes it seem almost at odds with Fo:E's lore.

Ah... Not really sure where you're seeing that problem. The quote from FoEc44 is

"The armor of the Palace Guards was enchanted by Princess Luna Herself that we may always speak in the Royal Canterlot Voice, so that our words would carry the proper weight!"

I do not know what you are trying to say. I already pointed out the enchantment on the armor. For starters, all the enchantment is supposed to do is let Lionheart talk loud. He doesn't say "thou speakest", "thy" or the royal "we" like Luna did, so the armor isn't letting him speak "Ye Olde Equestrian" or anything like that. To say that it is altering his voice not only to make it louder, but to form syllables that a batpony cannot form regularly is already a stretch as it is. The thing is, you may be saying that is Somber's intention now, but the fact is, it still hasn't been stated in the story. That's why it doesn't make sense. If Somber specifically states that in the story, than there isn't a problem.

No, the enchantment doesn't "let Lionheart talk loud"; it grants him the Royal Canterlot Voice (and rather likely forces him to use it, though he may still have access to his normal voice and simple have not bothered since no one would have been able to hear it). As for it working, how is it a stretch at all? I am entirely at a loss as to how you are seeing a problem here.

[Moodyman90]

Oddly enough I've heard of more people dieing while wearing seat belts then not. Like the two guys in the back of the truck that survived the crash because they went flying while the guy in the cab who was buckled up was the one who died.

[Aonee]

Spoiler:

I hadnt thought of that. Now I kinda do wish it. It'd probably also be worth it to be there when Glory finds out.

One more thing, and I'm just throwing this out there to put in your guys' heads, Stygius+Psychoshy. Think about it.

I dub it... Shyguis! Or Shysty!

[NoodleNugget]

One more thing, and I'm just throwing this out there to put in your guys' heads, Stygius+Psychoshy. Think about it.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH


NO.

[CamoBadger]

Oh, you can blame and/or punish anyone for anything. Or even nothing. That's the crux of this argument... there is no equivalent exchange. It's not like we even always end up convicting the right person.

Another reason why I have no faith in our justice system, or really the world as a whole...

[CamoBadger]

Oh, you can blame and/or punish anyone for anything. Or even nothing. That's the crux of this argument... there is no equivalent exchange. It's not like we even always end up convicting the right person.

Another reason why I have no faith in our justice system, or really the world as a whole...

Ooo... THAT I can get behind.
Nothing is true; everything is permitted! :D

*brohoof*

[Kattlarv]

@Sindri: (Fo3) I ain't got the time, I'm far to busy wasting it
elsewhere. Like DDO, trying to write fanfiction and... *tosses away wet
towel and coughs sheepisly*

@Everypony: Totally unrelated to
anything before, but am I the only one that's a bit "meh" about the
"love is in bloom" song? It is great, but imo, I found it rather
"preachy". I know they have to "give good christian values" to be
allowed to be shown, but eh. And imo, it lacked backstory imo, since
like, it seems like they met just a week ago or something, express
teenage weeding anyone?

Right, review time.

Spoiler:

And woo, more ramblings and walls of text, go me, derp.
Got some inspiration to keep writing though. Only for less horrible parts, so it's a plus in the down I guess.
Anyhow, got 3 pages of comment to gnaw through after this, and ~6 hours of sleep. So back in x hours and replying to stuff. Man, this chapter took me effing hours, damn you DDO, why are artificiers so fun? ... and I totally didn't make a half-construct with a temper, drinking habit and tendency to blow things up. Nope, not a chance xD

[CamoBadger]

@Everypony: Totally unrelated to
anything before, but am I the only one that's a bit "meh" about the
"love is in bloom" song? It is great, but imo, I found it rather
"preachy". I know they have to "give good christian values" to be
allowed to be shown, but eh. And imo, it lacked backstory imo, since
like, it seems like they met just a week ago or something, express
teenage weeding anyone?

Well, since Cadence used to be Twi's sitter I'd think she and Shining met a long time ago, but it really doesn't give much background on how long they've been together. I'd HOPE they've been together a while, but without actual quotes on it, it does seem like they haven't been together long. You'd think Shining would've at least said he was dating Cadence during one of his supposed visits with Twi, right?

Also, lol weeding.


Also, also, I almost forgot to talk about "Love is in Bloom". I thought it was a very catchy song, but I will say I didn't believe in its message (please don't make me explain why tonight, I've already made myself look insane enough in the past hour ).

[Guest]

(please don't make me explain why tonight, I've already made myself look insane enough in the past hour ).

That just means your fitting in.

[CamoBadger]

(please don't make me explain why tonight, I've already made myself look insane enough in the past hour ).

Aww that just means your fitting in.

HUZZAH!

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