Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

[FeatherDust]

I think it's because it constitutes pedophilia.

Not to get into complicated sexual politics, but that classification always bothers me. I mean, in no way to I want to remove the laws against sex with a minor (which has all kinds of issues regarding manipulation and coercion of a person who lacks experience and is inherently in a position of powerlessness) -- but at the same time, being sexually attracted to a teenager is NOT AT ALL the same thing as a, y'know, child. Pedophile is a term that has a meaning and a sexually mature teenager doesn't fit that.

[SilentCarto]

Oh, now I see I didn't quiet get your question. I thought you were talking about this scene... 
Well, as for BJ reaction to such a stable, hard to tell, but I suppose she would make a revolution there pretty quickly.
She had changed and learned a lot during her adventures, so such a community wouldn't be appropriate for her anymore.

Oh, yeah, I didn't mean to rabbit-trail on you. I was just thinking about how she reacted to Fallen Arch and wondering if 99, from an outsider's perspective, would have caused a similar reaction.

I imagine it would, but then what would Ch1 BJ do? (Let's call them Blackjack and Security to keep things straight.)

Does BJ defend her home from this high-handed interloper? I mean, Deus was one thing; his bunch were already killing the stable dwellers. Security's not actually being violent right this second, whatever demands she may be levying. BJ doesn't strike me as the sort to resort to violence if she doesn't have to, U-21 notwithstanding.

Surrender? BJ isn't a particularly motivated security mare, and Security's reputation has preceded her. BJ has a stick and maybe a shotgun, and that mare over there is Security, the ultimate badass of the wasteland. They say she died twice and it didn't take. And she's giving BJ this look like she'd love an excuse to start shooting people.

Switch sides, even? BJ's not exactly revolutionary material, but Security might be offering a change from the Overmare that everyone hates. Does the suggestion that things could be done differently even penetrate, or is the "Don't Think About It" mantra too strong? (This might be a moot question, though, since Rivets and Gin Rummy were already starting to plan a coup. BJ would probably follow Mom's lead, wherever that came down.)

[Icy Shake]

Oh, now I see I didn't quiet get your question. I thought you were talking about this scene... 
Well, as for BJ reaction to such a stable, hard to tell, but I suppose she would make a revolution there pretty quickly.
She had changed and learned a lot during her adventures, so such a community wouldn't be appropriate for her anymore.

Oh, yeah, I didn't mean to rabbit-trail on you. I was just thinking about how she reacted to Fallen Arch and wondering if 99, from an outsider's perspective, would have caused a similar reaction.

I imagine it would, but then what would Ch1 BJ do? (Let's call them Blackjack and Security to keep things straight.)

Does BJ defend her home from this high-handed interloper? I mean, Deus was one thing; his bunch were already killing the stable dwellers. Security's not actually being violent right this second, whatever demands she may be levying. BJ doesn't strike me as the sort to resort to violence if she doesn't have to, U-21 notwithstanding.

Surrender? BJ isn't a particularly motivated security mare, and Security's reputation has preceded her. BJ has a stick and maybe a shotgun, and that mare over there is Security, the ultimate badass of the wasteland. They say she died twice and it didn't take. And she's giving BJ this look like she'd love an excuse to start shooting people.

Switch sides, even? BJ's not exactly revolutionary material, but Security might be offering a change from the Overmare that everyone hates. Does the suggestion that things could be done differently even penetrate, or is the "Don't Think About It" mantra too strong? (This might be a moot question, though, since Rivets and Gin Rummy were already starting to plan a coup. BJ would probably follow Mom's lead, wherever that came down.)

One of the other complications is that the arrival of Security signals to both Blackjack and 99 as a whole that their model of thinking of the world—outside lies only death—is wrong, in a way that Deus and his raiders didn't. That messes up the calculus of defending the status quo, no matter how shitty it is, because the alternative is everybody dies.

[SilentCarto]

One of the other complications is that the arrival of Security signals to both Blackjack and 99 as a whole that their model of thinking of the world—outside lies only death—is wrong, in a way that Deus and his raiders didn't. That messes up the calculus of defending the status quo, no matter how shitty it is, because the alternative is everybody dies.

This is an excellent point. Any outside contact would probably result in Rivets and Gin starting their revolution, which is why the Overmare kept Sanguine's transmissions to herself and negotiated for outside help in maintaining her regime.

Man it's been a long road.

...getting from there to here.

[O. Hinds]

And Scotch was certainly emotionally vulnerable, which could mean this was such a mistake (we'll know for sure in 11 months).

She has an implant for that, remember; it was actually brought up in the scene.

But the readership will still project their own values onto the characters and consider any adult-on-minor sex acts exploitative.

Given who unambiguously initiated this, who maintained control throughout, who has more of a cultural and personal history with this sort of thing, and who had an exceptionally deadly and very protective friend in the same room (which Bastard was explicitly said to be aware of), if anyone was exploited there, I'd say it would pretty clearly be Bastard.

Which I don't understand at this stage of the story, considering how much screwed-up stuff there is in the Hoof.

Yeah. Why is this so much worse than the things the people who got to this point already read through?

Huh. Kind of funny to consider what Chapter 70-or-so Blackjack's reaction would be if she walked into the Stable 99 of Chapter 1 (assuming she wasn't familiar with it already), and what Chapter 1 Blackjack's reaction would have been to her...

Hm. Interesting idea.

What about how the second thing Blackjack/Luna noticed was that Scotch wasn't (obviously) raping him?

Exactly. And to be honest, even without the obvious signs, it's still a concern; he did, after all, say that a big reason he was so careful not to hurt Scotch was the expectation that, if he had, Blackjack would kill him. Now, given, among other things, that he didn't wake Blackjack before the event to see if she was really okay with (or, which he wouldn't know wouldn't be the case, insistent on) it happening, he does seem to have been okay with it, if uncomfortable with some of the details. Tweak the situation just slightly, though, and you have someone having sex because they're afraid they'll be killed if they don't.

This might be a moot question, though, since Rivets and Gin Rummy were already starting to plan a coup. BJ would probably follow Mom's lead, wherever that came down.

Aye, and I expect that they'd go with Security. They're both too practical not to. "Okay, so I can side with the Ultimate Badass of the Wasteland, stand aside while the idiot Overmare rants herself to death, keep most of my people safe, and maybe even gain power in the new order, all for the price of freeing the stallions... ooooorr I can stand with the idiot Overmare against the walking death machine who could literally eat my gun for breakfast."

A bigger question than where the leadership goes, I think, is how much of a civil conflict there is.

One of the other complications is that the arrival of Security signals to both Blackjack and 99 as a whole that their model of thinking of the world—outside lies only death—is wrong, in a way that Deus and his raiders didn't. That messes up the calculus of defending the status quo, no matter how shitty it is, because the alternative is everybody dies.

Ah, good point!

[SilentCarto]

...I don't remember Blackjack hating the overmare. She didn't like her, but she also didn't like Daisy or Marmalade (that was Daisy's daughter's name, right?) or a great many others. Most of the security mares were mean people, it seemed like, and most of the rest of the vault didn't like the security mares since they were the ones that came down on what few entertainments there were to be had in the vault.

Nobody particularly liked the Overmare. It's not explicit in the first chapter -- BJ is not, as mentioned, a revolutionary soul, and tends to just go along to get along -- but she alludes to the fact that all music is required to glorify the overmare, and specifically tried to stay out of the Atrium to get away from the Overmare-centric murals and muzak. It's just that the Stable was hanging on by a thread, and whatever the Overmare might be like, the risks of another Incident were worse. She does refer to the Overmare as a 'that little psycho' after they realize she let in the raiders, so it seems like common knowledge that she's not all that stable (heh) to begin with.

I forget why Rivets allowed Blackjack to gamble with them but could have sworn it was because it protected them in some way... or, at least, ensured Blackjack wouldn't turn around and turn them in herself. Blackjack had no allusions of friendship.
Blackjack didn't have any real interpersonal connection with anyone outside of her mother. She just... existed. Some things she did were a little nicer than others, but it was all pretty dreary to her. In moments of confusion she'd fall back into her role as a stable 99 security mare. She'd defend her vault from whatever might threaten it, physically or ideologically.

You're right that she was allowed into card games because she wouldn't bust a game she was involved in, but I don't think confusion translates into blindly charging down the barrel of Security's gun. She was pretty calm and clever during the invasion, one brief freakout aside, and I think she'd think twice about taking on Security even if the Overmare was bawling in her ear to shoot her. Try to convince her to leave, sure, but I think they'd have a nice, peaceful talk about Security's ultimatum long before she'd simply attack. And, as Icy pointed out, Security's presence would implicitly indicate that the Outside was not "certain death", which would immediately offer a third option.

Gin turning out to oppose the overmare would paralyze Blackjack, I think. Blackjack would really be in favor of telling Security to leave. Their stable was the way it was because that's how it sustained itself (or, at least, that's what everyone thought up until Blackjack learned how sparse the orders for how the stable was to operate were). Population control, order. Her job was just to maintain it.

I agree that BJ would otherwise tell (ask) (beg) Security to leave for the sake of stability, but I think she'd do as her mother and superior officer said, especially if the order was, "Belay that order, hold your fire," when the Overmare was shrieking, "Shoot her now!" Mom was the one who taught her in the first place that they uphold the system because the alternative is death, and if Mom says now there's another way...

Without Gin in the picture I do not think Blackjack would side with Rivets. If things came down to violence she would defend the vault, likely trying a trick like the one she played on Deus, leading the legendary Security away via potshots and insults.

I think she'd more likely be indecisive in this case. It's safe to say she's aware that while the Overmare is in charge, Rivets is the one who keeps them all alive. BJ sure didn't hesitate to engage in a bit of sedition at the card game. ("Really? I thought it was Overmare first, last, and middle," I replied, enjoying a little smack talk.) Deus was a monster that clearly indicated his intention to kill the entire stable to get what he wanted; there was no choice but to get rid of him. Security presents a much more peaceful situation, and I don't think BJ would be eager to escalate it.

[Icy Shake]

From the other side, though, while Security might not have learned how to deescalate once it's happened, she has got to the point where she'll play things a little closer to her chest before it gets to that point, and will differentiate between individuals shooting first and everyone doing so. See the Society. So she might be able to buy herself time to figure out what's going on and if there's someone she could get behind. The biggest risk with trying is she gets herself caught in yet another hostage situation.

[Icy Shake]

Unrelated to the current topic, but is Stygius the Fallout Equestria fandom's Flash Sentry? Although not a perfect mapping, it seems like there are a lot of similarities in the (negative) reactions to them. Only I've never had much of a negative reaction to Stygius, where I did and do to Flash, or at any rate him as he currently exists serving as a romantic interest for Twilight.
(Although, when someone (Present Perfect? Okay, here we go –
PP: [#]3 [Ship]) SunFlash: Sunset proved herself in Rainbow Rocks, so she deserves to have her man back.
Me: 3) I like Sunset, but apart from D G D Davidson, Brad doesn't have enough character to support a ship for me. Especially not with someone so much more worthwhile.
PP: The thing about Flash Sentry ships isn't about his character. He's a trophy for the girls to mess around with. I have a number of story ideas that address this directly. :V Right now, he's Sunset's reward for a movie well done.)
explained that we shouldn't look at Flash as a character so much as a trophy, it got a bit better.)

Chapter Seventy Five Part Two Running Thoughts:

Chapter Seventy Five Part Two Overall Thoughts:

Chapter Seventy Five Part Two Editing:

[Icy Shake]

Don't worry, I got the joke. Mine was directing a stuffy, overcritical attitude at someone running on sadness and loss and anger, doing all the talking she really needed with her wings and body and hooves, with that as emotional overflow. Unfortunately, I don't tend to lapse into second person with other characters the same way I do with Blackjack, so what then might have been "your" was "her."

[O. Hinds]

@Icy Shake:
Ah, thank you very much as always.

"vasty"

Ooh, new word! Thanks!
Though a rather obscure one, it seems; my computer's dictionary didn't have it (though my computer's spellcheck appears to), and I had to look online.

"return fire at"?

I'm going with "returning fire at". That's not incorrect, is it?

[SilentCarto]

I'm going with "returning fire at". That's not incorrect, is it?

No, it's correct.

(( now watch as Somber kills her out of nowhere ))

Oh, come on. No writer would kill off a beloved character with such a long, interesting story arc like tha--



KHAAAAAAAAAAAN!

[Valikdu]

Man it's been a long road.

...getting from there to here.

*insert several derogatory quotes about Archer from Chuck Sonnenberg here*

Oh, come on. No writer would kill off a beloved character with such a long, interesting story arc like tha--

Bridge on the captain!

[JadedPony]

(( now watch as Somber kills her out of nowhere ))

Yeah, I've been seriously disappointed at the turn of events in the last few chapters. Frankly, I think a great epic is being destroyed because the author is getting tired of writing the series and just wants to get it over with as fast as possible. I stopped recommending this series months ago because the series itself is good, but the ending so far has been a growing pile of sub-par, half assed shit with all the main characters dying off so that blackjack can be a marysue of biblical proportions.

[Icy Shake]

I don't know what's going on here, or who's doing what and why, but the animation's pretty fun.

[O. Hinds]

No, it's correct.

Thanks!

[SilentCarto]

Man it's been a long road.

...getting from there to here.

*insert several derogatory quotes about Archer from Chuck Sonnenberg here*

Oh, come on. No writer would kill off a beloved character with such a long, interesting story arc like tha--

Bridge on the captain!

Yeah, wow, two Trek references out of me in three days. I feel kinda... dirty.

I find my lack of faithfulness disturbing.

[Icy Shake]

So I checked out that chapter 76 rant thing.

Though coming at it from a different general attitude about the story than me, some interesting things to think about. However, I was a little incredulous over his reaction to the conversation about Blackjack's cutie mark, and a talent for victory being dumb. I had thought that was something the reader was supposed to recognize from the beginning, especially given the source. Meaning that there was never a need to get worked up over it. Anyway. Something else about 76.

(Note, yes, I am aware of the irony of saying the start of the chapter felt a little draggy when I wrote over 4000 words in the overall thoughts. And this is probably going to be split into multiple posts. Don't judge me!   )

Chapter 76 Running Thoughts:

[Icy Shake]

Chapter 76 Overall Thoughts:

Chapter 76 Editing:

Other Chapter Editing:

Also, Hinds, should the homes of the Reapers and the Collegiate, when referred to as "the Arena" and "the University," ever not be capitalized?
Examples: “Security, Psychoshy.  If you’re going to kill each other, do it in the arena where we can all watch the show.
Here, should it be lowercase because they are talking about the arena at the Arena, or the arena as an embodiment of combat as a spectator sport? Note that they aren't at the Arena in this case, so it could be referring to the location as a whole.

and the professor established the Eggheads over at the university.”

Likewise, when referring to someplace other than the Reapers' arena or Hoofington University as "the arena" or "the university" (such as the university Morningstar worked at), I figure they should not be capitalized?

[O. Hinds]

@Icy Shake:
Ah, thank you very much as always.

Also, Hinds, should the homes of the Reapers and the Collegiate, when referred to as "the Arena" and "the University," ever not be capitalized?

I think that they ought to always be capitalized.

Examples: “Security, Psychoshy. If you’re going to kill each other, do it in the arena where we can all watch the show.
Here, should it be lowercase because they are talking about the arena at the Arena, or the arena as an embodiment of combat as a spectator sport? Note that they aren't at the Arena in this case, so it could be referring to the location as a whole.

Hm... A tricky one, but I'd say capitalize it there, too.

and the professor established the Eggheads over at the university.”

And there.

Likewise, when referring to someplace other than the Reapers' arena or Hoofington University as "the arena" or "the university" (such as the university Morningstar worked at), I figure they should not be capitalized?

Not unless there's another reason to, right.

Thanks for this.

I think when using it as terminal punctuation, you haven't been putting a space before the dash

Aye.

there is no scientific evidence for the existence of–“ Glory added.

inverted quotation mark

Not just that. Yikes! How did this get through? Let's see...
Right, changing

“Actually, there is no scientific evidence for the existence of–“ Glory added.
“Souls exist,” Lacunae interrupted

to just

“Souls exist,” Lacunae said

"anymore"

I also changed two other instances in that chapter.

"to my hooves"

I've used "me to my".

"on a mass of"

I've used "the mass".

not sure if "prezel" for "pretzel" is intentional or not . . .

Probably intentional there, I think, but thanks for checking.

should this one be "anymore"?

I think so.

Also, this kind of sticks with the interpretation of Luna just hanging out on the surface of the moon (now unfortunately supported by the comics . . . for whatever that's worth), which I've never cared for. But if that's what happened, okay.

Eh? I thought, at least, that PH used an imprisoned-in-the-moon system, as discussed during the trip to the moon. You think otherwise?

Ditto for a space program generally, unless it was going to be purely utilitarian, and probably unmanned.

Well, regarding this, since PH indicated that both Equestria and other powers had satellites orbiting Equus, my headcanon, at least, does incorporate both a zebra space program and navitpatia (astronauts), including armed navitpatia making cloaked raids on Equestrian satellites. That probably does fall under "purely utilitarian", though; they weren't there for reasons of science or exploration, they were there to contest that bit of high ground. They had the technical capability to go to the moon, but yeah, no reason to, particularly while they were trying to fight a war.

Actually, I think it was Lancer, by shooting it off. Not that Xenith wasn't involved, of course. And it was a pretty packed event, not hard to see someone eliding the details.

Oops. Yeah. I think I'll go ahead and fix that.

Oh, no counting you new (old) body? Seems like a nice souvenir to me. Even came with a shiny new (old) soul, and new-new changes to both the organic and synthetic bits.

:)

How did the hub stay aloft when all six Raptors were clustered on its far side?

Eh? What do you mean? The hub is an airborne structure.

Yeah, Goldenblood knows what's up.

:)

If we did decide to change the Glory scene in 76, would you be willing to go through the chapters in both directions and find all the ripples forwards and backward for us?

[Icy Shake]

Also, this kind of sticks with the interpretation of Luna just hanging out on the surface of the moon (now unfortunately supported by the comics . . . for whatever that's worth), which I've never cared for. But if that's what happened, okay.

Eh?  I thought, at least, that PH used an imprisoned-in-the-moon system, as discussed during the trip to the moon.  You think otherwise?

You're right, I wasn't being careful there. What I mean/should have said is that imprisoning Luna in the moon was a different thing that wasn't exactly replicated by the space program.

If we did decide to change the Glory scene in 76, would you be willing to go through the chapters in both directions and find all the ripples forwards and backward for us?

If that is what you end up deciding to do . . . I think so. I hesitate to give a definitive answer because I don't know how much spare time I'll have once my new program starts, but it's something that I'd be willing to do provided the ability/a not-completely unreasonable workload.

[O. Hinds]

You're right, I wasn't being careful there. What I mean/should have said is that imprisoning Luna in the moon was a different thing that wasn't exactly replicated by the space program.

Ah, okay.

If that is what you end up deciding to do . . . I think so. I hesitate to give a definitive answer because I don't know how much spare time I'll have once my new program starts, but it's something that I'd be willing to do provided the ability/a not-completely unreasonable workload.

Thanks. :)
I don't know if it will happen, but sorry anyway about any bother here.

[SilentCarto]

Also, Hinds, should the homes of the Reapers and the Collegiate, when referred to as "the Arena" and "the University," ever not be capitalized?
Examples: “Security, Psychoshy.  If you’re going to kill each other, do it in the arena where we can all watch the show.
Here, should it be lowercase because they are talking about the arena at the Arena, or the arena as an embodiment of combat as a spectator sport? Note that they aren't at the Arena in this case, so it could be referring to the location as a whole.

and the professor established the Eggheads over at the university.”

Likewise, when referring to someplace other than the Reapers' arena or Hoofington University as "the arena" or "the university" (such as the university Morningstar worked at), I figure they should not be capitalized?

In this case, I think "arena" should not be capitalized simply because she phrased it as "in the arena", i.e. in the ring, rather than "at the Arena", meaning the structure as a whole.

University can go either way, but I feel that it should be uppercase unless it's being specifically used to refer to the structure (i.e. the walls around the university.) But it might be simplest to only use "university" and "Collegiate" to keep it straight.

[CD]

If we did decide to change the Glory scene in 76, would you be willing to go through the chapters in both directions and find all the ripples forwards and backward for us?

Butting in uninvited here, but I think the scene lacked some emotional impact from the fact I could see it coming a mile away. So when we found out Glory's status, I wasn't as shocked as the situation should have warranted.

It did prompt me into exploring "what if" scenarios. My idea was what if Triage had refused Glory treatment in the auto-doc and she died as a result from that? Blackjack could have had some clues making her believe Glory had been rescued and was probably recovering only to make it back to the Collegiate to find out she had been left to die by them. It would initially make Triage look bad, and Blackjack probably threw a temper upon learning about it. But the hard truth would be that Triage was already helping thousands of others at Blackjack's insistence and was being overworked. Glory wasn't the only pony who was dying, and didn't stand a chance to survive even with treatment. And if you take away all of Blackjack's titles, her body upgrades, her ranking in the fight against the Brood and Eater, what makes her and Glory so much more deserving of being saved than the loved ones of other ponies who urgently need treatment? Blackjack may have cared a lot about Glory, but that would have been more true for almost any random pony who needed help more than her. Triage had to make a difficult call nobody would envy, and she chose the option that was sure to piss off Blackjack severely in order to remain professional and do right by the patient ahead of Glory who needed help. That's some pathos right there, and a shocking reveal that reinforces the harsh world Blackjack lives in, while providing a silver lining by letting you know the care that wasn't extended to Glory went on to save another pony's life and make their loved ones happy.

Don't take that as a suggestion. It's an alternate scenario brain fart I had. I wouldn't even know where to start if you seriously wanted me to retcon that in. It's just something thought provoking in response to the latest chapter.

[O. Hinds]

In this case, I think "arena" should not be capitalized simply because she phrased it as "in the arena", i.e. in the ring, rather than "at the Arena", meaning the structure as a whole.

Hm, point.

@CD:
Hm. Depending on how exactly that was worked, it might actually be easier to implement.

To clarify, by the way, I still think that the Glory scene is okay as it is (we could have done better, perhaps, but it doesn't seem to me vital that we replace what's there), but Somber mentioned that, given the feedback, we might go back and consider changing it after 77 and the epilogue are released, as part of the post-ending-pre-finalization work.

[SilentCarto]

To clarify, by the way, I still think that the Glory scene is okay as it is (we could have done better, perhaps, but it doesn't seem to me vital that we replace what's there), but Somber mentioned that, given the feedback, we might go back and consider changing it after 77 and the epilogue are released, as part of the post-ending-pre-finalization work.

Sorry, I guess I haven't been following this very well... what's the proposed change, here?

[O. Hinds]

Sorry, I guess I haven't been following this very well... what's the proposed change, here?

There isn't a single set specific one at the moment.

...and no replacement is really "vital", Hinds. It's a fanfiction. The question is just whether things could be done better.

...I'm not sure what you're saying here, sorry. I mean, I get the specific case, I think, but you appear to be extending the matter to a general case I am having some difficulty grasping.

[Evilgidgit]

I am curious about what would have happened had the Great War never happened. Obviously, a variation of the TV canon would commence but would have Littlepip and Blackjack actually existed had the apocalypse never happened and if the Stables had never been built. There is still the possibility that Twilight and Big Macintosh got together and had Tarot, but again without going into #99, I wonder what Blackjack (along with the other characters) would have been like as people? Would she still be a security guard, and what of Littlepip - common PipBuck repair pony for life? And what of other characters like P-21, Glory, Calamity, Velvet, Red Eye, and even Trixie?

[decumos]

Would she still be a security guard, and what of Littlepip - common PipBuck repair pony for life?

I believe that the technological advancement without interruption brought by the apocalipse would make such things as PipBucks obsolete by that time. Ponies would already be exploring the Universe in marvelous starships!
Littlepip could be Chief Engineer, and Blackjack could be Chief Security Officer! To boldly trot where nopony has trot before!

[RoboRed]

blackjack's favorite soup:

[SilentCarto]

Would she still be a security guard, and what of Littlepip - common PipBuck repair pony for life?

I believe that the technological advancement without interruption brought by the apocalipse would make such things as PipBucks obsolete by that time. Ponies would already be exploring the Universe in marvelous starships!
Littlepip could be Chief Engineer, and Blackjack could be Chief Security Officer! To boldly trot where nopony has trot before!

Then who's the captain? Homage? I kinda figured she'd be the communications officer.
Obviously Velvet is the doctor.
Calamity is weapons officer.
Xenith is Nurse Chapel, I suppose.
Glory is science officer.
P-21 is the helmsman.
Rampage has no place on a starship, ever. Sorry.
I suppose Lacunae is the weird alien counselor.
Scotch is the, um... the, um... what the hell do you call a less annoying Wesley Crusher?

Oh, and Steelhooves? The original security officer that got killed off in the first season.

(And the computer has Celestia's voice.)

blackjack's favorite soup:

I'll drink to that!

[Sponsored content]