Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

[Guest]

So, pretty much what I had guessed. Twelve is certainly not what I'd consider mid to late teen. That'd pre-teen.

[Icy Shake]

Okay, a couple quick searches couldn't show anything to indicate that Scotch Tape had actually been on the breeding queue. It may have been confusion with Scotch being a "breeder" in Blackjack's double-dystopia dream/hallucination. It could also have been from something that didn't show on a search for "queue" or "breed" (or "bred"), or have been a case where she, before being on the queue, had sex with a colt who hadn't yet entered the P-1 to P-20 or U-1 to U-20 group that manned the queue. Or something else.

Blackjack didn't know when the males were made P/U-1, but she thought it might be twelve or fifteen, so it's pretty likely it was somewhere in that range, which would make twelve as the age you start using the queue seem pretty consistent (if males were added at the lower of Blackjack's guesses).

[Blue Heron]

Has it ever been established in either FOE or PH what the lifespan of a magical colored pony is? Because (and this is from the perspective of a biologist and a farmer) waiting to 12 to breed a RL horse is actually lateish. A well cared for horse of average breeding can comfortably reach 30, and will probably be bred by their fifth birthday, but shouldn't be bred before 2-3. The oldest horse I've ever met personally was 41 and that was not a healthy animal.

But these aren't RL. They are imaginary. They are horses with personalities and familial structures similar to human. I've always averaged them between human and horse ages in regards to development and the like.

So let's put an ever age lifespan of 55-60 on a MLP, I believe for humans it's in the 70s now in a first world country.

Humans can comfortably carry a child to term PHYSICALLY by 16-18. Mentally is up to each individual. I've met 35 year olds I wouldn't trust with a child.

So a midline between 5 and 18 is 11-12. Which is the age yall just figured out she probably was. So...not weird to me.

And we aren't talking about a pampered CMC blank flank. This is a filly who knew from the moment she was old enough to understand she had two purposes-keep the stable running and create a replacement when needed. Sex is another tool for the stable.

On top of that, she's had to deal with more bullshitt and terror and death in the last six months than most people or "modern" MLPFIM ponies will ever even think of. And her role model is fucking blackjack, the self destructive Ho of the wasteland.

And do we know this is her first time? Wasn't a threesome with some of the chapel orphans implied at the pre-launch party?

Just my two bits

[Guest]

You seem to be providing headcanon for a quote, if what you're saying is true (I really don't think it is, 12 seems in the range right for the cmc of which she looks exactly like in the image) somber would have to provide the fact he's mixing and matching ages or no one would understand what he was saying.

If he was giving equine ages he'd still have to explain that, because most people wouldn't get it, most people don't breed horses. And that wouldn't be nearly as arbitrary as mixing ages. So to me that's more than enough proof that in the quote he meant her age was analogous to humans. Unless there's something Icy left out.

Edit: Checked the thread, there does not appear to be anything more to it.

Edit2: Actually I did find something interesting.

In 99 there were two major taboos: incest and rape. And both were frequently overlooked because it was, as many know, a really horrible place to live.

I find this topic extremely uncomfortable, but that being said I'm not arguing for the scenes being removed from the story. Because despite my own feeling towards them they make sense. Afterall there is a taboo missing from those two that's relevent to the discussion.

What I am doing is making a judgement call on BJ's suitability as a parent because of her upbringing. She in my opinion would be pretty terrible at it.

[Icy Shake]

@Blue Heron: Scotch outright said that she'd had sex with three ponies in 99 (presumably fillies, but possibly pre-queue (restriction based on the latest chapter) colts, even if that seems unlikely based on the segregation). In addition to that and the implication in 69, there's indication that Blackjack has used the Perceptitron to share her experiences while having sex with partners of both genders, which appears to have featured unsafe usage of tools.

[Blue Heron]

Ah thank you icy shake. I had forgotten about the fillies in stable 99, but thought I was pretty accurate about the chapter 69 memory.

So why is this a big deal? Because it's an older male? Because scotch is a filly? If she had been a colt having sex with an older mare, would people be as upset?

[Guest]

So why is this a big deal? Because it's an older male? Because scotch is a filly? If she had been a colt having sex with an older mare, would people be as upset?

In order of questions asked, because she's a child, and I brought it up back then. Yes, he's an adult, in fact Icy, I would have to find the quote, but he/she (sorry I don't know correct me as you see fit) said they would agree with me if there were an adult involved. No. And, for me, yes absolutely, why are you bringing sex into it? that's not the issue.

Edit: What I said about Icy is not true. He/She said something about employers having sex with employees, and something else about adults taking advantage of children, but never said they would agree with me if an adult was involved. Not going to edit it out, need a reminder not to be stupid. Sorry.

[Train Dodger]

I find it amusing how people keep flipping out about ScotchxBastard, and how Blackjack justifies it in her mind. Obviously they haven't been reading the same story I have, one where the main protagonist's entire upbringing consisted of learning how to deliver measured beatings to sex slaves. I mean, come on. Look at the context. These are incredibly, incredibly maladjusted people we are talking about here.

If anything, the real storytelling flaw here is that the main characters in PH are so far out-of-phase with reality that almost anything they do could be justified as a result of trauma. Scotch Tape just watched her father die from being impaled by steel supports. She could don rubber chickens on her forehooves and walk around bipedally, declaring herself Princess of All Equus, and it would seem somehow justifiable. It's difficult to ground characters who are so fundamentally ungrounded as to reside permanently in the stratosphere.

On the other hand, I do know that this Bastard is the very same guy who, in the last chapter, just got done basically insulting Scotch Tape's dad by referring to his sacrifice as "something only morons do", right in front of her. If I were Scotch Tape, I certainly wouldn't fuck him, just for that alone. I dunno. Just my two cents.

[Icy Shake]

Were people this upset when it was revealed Charm, who is roughly the same age as Scotch, had had sex with much older ponies at the Society, and tried to while with the Harbingers?

ETA: Speaking in general, not specifically Last's concerns about Blackjack's fitness as a mother.

[Guest]

Who are these people? Clearly they're people outside the forum, to the best of my knowledge I'm the only one speaking negatively about BJ in regards to this here. Don't you think it'd be more productive to engage with them where they're saying this and maybe get an understanding of why?

Cause it doesn't seem you know why, (unless the only complaint is about the act itself which admittedly is pretty uncomfortable and gross. It's the only thing that connects them really.) those situations at least in regards to what I'm saying are pretty different. Mainly because BJ doesn't allow it to happen. She's not present for it, it's out of her power.

Edit: Don't see anything on the main reddit page and it was two weeks since the last comment on EQD.

[Icy Shake]

I don't know specifically who they are or where they are, since as far as I can tell this was all in private communication with Somber or someone from the editing team. I wouldn't know where to seek them out, but given that all of us interact with people outside of this forum, some even about Pony/FoE/PH things, perhaps someone on this forum does remember complaints at that point. It's possible similar objections/concerns were raised (that I likewise didn't hear myself, for the same reasons) about the things with Charm.

No, I do understand why. I just would really prefer not to express much of an opinion on anything here, so I've been trying to limit my responses to providing background information that I am aware of or can easily find and, in my last post, asking a question I really am interested in the answer to. It's good to know where the point is that generates expressions of unhappiness, and it's entirely possible that second-hand relaying of similar situations in which the protagonist was in no way involved fell short of that point. Maybe it would fall short of that point for some other reason. I think that would be interesting to know.

ETA: I've likewise been on the Reddit, and there wasn't anything on the EQD story updates page or the TVTropes FoE thread. One major complaint on Somber's new chapter announcement on Fimfiction (Edit: posted after the warning was added to the chapter), combining personal squick and concern over the legality of reading the chapter in their jurisdiction.

[Guest]

Sorry, Icy, I think I'm being sensitive to this whole thing. It's just I'm seeing "people" a few times now, And the only one who seems to be discussing this (at least in the places I know to look) appears to be me.

Maybe you can see why I'm a little frustrated. Anyway apologies.

[Icy Shake]

No, that's completely understandable. We're in the dark together, and there's not much that we can do but make broad guesses about any larger reaction, so broad generalizations or speculations is all either of us can make, for the most part, about anything other than our own personal takes.

[Somber]

I'm going to try and get out a PG version since this seems to be a big problem.  I wanted one in the first place, but couldn't finish it because the flow of the chapter went 'clunk' and stopped cold.

I'm glad that, in spite of that, the chapter was more or less okay.

[Guest]

I'm going to try and get out a PG version since this seems to be a big problem.  I wanted one in the first place, but couldn't finish it because the flow of the chapter went 'clunk' and stopped cold.

I'm glad that, in spite of that, the chapter was more or less okay.

Somber, while I think some of us (me included) might not like that scene, I think we all agree it makes sense based on both Scotch and 99. I don't think you should remove it.

I agree with this, I also don't like it. But I agree it does make sense. I hope removing the scene isn't the impression you got from what I was saying.

[Icy Shake]

I'll second, from the outside, swicked's sentiment that it makes sense given the characters and setting.

[RoboRed]

Sooo yeah....um...that warning...

...diiiidn't see that coming. Nope.

...Also you realize it's only a matter of time before some enterprising individual decides to do art of that on derpibooru or something.

(P.S. Looks like you finally got your wish, Last.)

[Guest]

(P.S. Looks like you finally got your wish, Last.)

Hmm?

[O. Hinds]

I'm going to try and get out a PG version since this seems to be a big problem.

As an optional, parallel, and less-canonical version, I hope you mean, rather than a replacement?

Somber, while I think some of us (me included) might not like that scene, I think we all agree it makes sense based on both Scotch and 99. I don't think you should remove it.

I agree with this, I also don't like it. But I agree it does make sense. I hope removing the scene isn't the impression you got from what I was saying.

I'll second, from the outside, swicked's sentiment that it makes sense given the characters and setting.

Adding mine, I've said this before and haven't changed my mind on it: it makes sense that it happens this way, and when you tried before, you weren't able to find any alternative, not even an inferior but workable one and much less one of equal or superior quality.  One of the great advantages of fanfiction over a lot of other mediums is that we can do this sort of thing; if the most logical course of events wouldn't make it past the censor, it doesn't matter, because there isn't a censor.  We knew that there would be complaints; that wasn't a surprise.  If you think it needs to be changed because you have another version that works better in-universe, for the story, etc., fine; I'd be a bit annoyed, but only because it's such a large edit to a live chapter. We've done that sort of thing before.  If your only concern is that we're getting the complaints we were already expecting when we released the chapter, though, I still say that you shouldn't weaken your work like that.

[ILM126]

Alright, after several days of procrastinating. (Due to school) I've decided to read it now, because I couldn't wait any longer.

Hmm, it's 12:10am right now... And it's only 21k words this time, I'll finish this in about 1 hour. Unless I skip the "warnings"..... Never mind, see you all on the other side

[RoboRed]

(P.S. Looks like you finally got your wish, Last.)

Hmm?

No more Stygius.

[ILM126]

Also, I'm tweeting as I read :P

https://twitter.com/hashtag/FalloutEquestriaProjectHorizons

[Guest]

(P.S. Looks like you finally got your wish, Last.)

Hmm?

No more Stygius.

Not to be a dick, but that does make me pretty happy. I look forward to reading it though I'll try not to be too enthused as, well again not to be a dick but characters good or evil do not know how to stay dead in this universe.

[ILM126]

Alright, I'm on Pg 19. Still reading, but I think I found something...

Code:

“I think go.  We’ve got enough control for that,” Homage replied.  “Why?”

Code:

“I think [b]so[/b].  We’ve got enough control for that,” Homage replied.  “Why?”

Is this right? (Now back to reading!)

[ILM126]

Code:

“Sorry doesn’t make it better, Blackjack!” Scotch Tape snapped at me, [b]giving me a glare so like his that I almost saw dark blue eyes instead of her teal[/b].  “You’re... you!  You blow up huge towers and survive balefire bombs!  You do the craziest shit like it’s nothing!  Why couldn’t you have done it this time?  Some trick or some... something!  Why didn’t you?”


Not sure about this bit, or it might just be me ^^"
Page 21...

[ILM126]

Whew, that was a long read for me.... 3 hours..

That chapter also gave me some tears, throughout the story I felt like something was up with the Legate. And at the end, *boom* that happened.

It's now quite early in the morning, I'll do my best and squeeze a review out. I rarely do reviews because I'm unsure how to write one. ^^"

Also, Somber. You said that, in the last chapter, you want to fix up your Patreon account. How would you like it fixed?

[O. Hinds]

@ILM126:
Your format for error spotting I find... rather strange, but thank you nonetheless. The second one there is fine, but the first is indeed a typo.

[ILM126]

Alright, the second might be because I got tired as I neared the end of the chapter...

[O. Hinds]

No problem. :)

[atikin]

[size=35]Wow, I finally finished reading and caught up with all the posts here!  I'm in the military and don't have much free time recently... [/size]


[size=35]Well, as always Somber did a great work writing this chapter. I'm not seeing myself able to write anything at all while dealing with my day to day problems, military or not. What I've got to say, Somber, don't be upset with your work even if it's not always as perfect as you would like it to be. There's no such thing as perfect at all. I'm a perfectionist and I know it all too well, but don't let it bring you down. And if you feel like spending some more time to make a chapter better, just do it! We can wait, because we know it'll be worth waiting. I think folks here will agree with me. [/size]


[size=35]About the Scotch x Bastard scene, I actually pretty expected this to happen. I don't see any problem with it. That's how Scotch was raised. Sex is a normal daily activity in her community. If you guys forgot, Blackjack was doing exactly the same things when she was Scotch's age (raping P-21 for the first time, for example). Although I don't remember doing so with adults, it doesn't mean it was something strange or uncommon in the community they were raised in. That's why it's maybe strange for us, and even Bastard, but perfectly fine for Blackjack and Scotch. And as it was already mentioned, Scotch was having sex on regular basis, with both genders, sometimes at the same time, and even using her tools. So I really don't understand you guys freaking out so much about this scene. I wouldn't even talk about it at all if you didn't bring it up. Apparently, for 99 ponies sex is just a way to relax and enjoy themselves, and there's almost no taboos about it. It's not a forbidden theme for them, like it's for everybody else (including us), but a common activity, like playing or eating or whatever. So I see no reason for us to freak out as long as it's a normal thing for them, and it's just how their "culture" work. It doesn't matter her age, if it's normal for them, why wouldn't it be normal for us. If you remember, they also recycled and ate dead ponies, something that won't be normal in our society. So why nobody freaks out about that? [/size]


[size=35]To sum up, I personally see no problem with this scene, and it's actually very expected and well fitting for me. Sorry if it's an uncomfortable topic for some of you (apparently it's not for me), but I had to say what I think. As to removing the scene, I agree with Hinds here. There's no reason to remove this scene just because some of the readers find it immoral and not fitting. At this rate you'll be censoring half of your book for it to be "inappropriate" from someone's point of view. Just do as you think is right because it's your book and you're the author. The readers will accept whatever you'll write, whether it's appropriate in their opinion or not. Just as Hinds said, only replace the scenes of you have more fitting ones, but even then try to do so before you release the chapter. But it's just my opinion... [/size]


[size=35]As for the other topics, it was really hard and painful chapter to read with all the death going on. Apparently, Somber can't let there be a happy end for most of the main characters. Although I'm sure Glory will survive (it's pretty obvious for me she was the pony Blackjack was in in the hospital), and there might be some kind of happy end for her and Blackjack together. In the end, Blackjack deserves to be happy after all the pain she'd been through. That is, if there won't be some cruel plot twist in the end and she won't sacrifice herself for others to live. There's actually a high chance for this to happen, especially that the original FoE ended in the same way, and Blackjack is self destructive, so it won't be a big deal for her. But in this case she'll probably die, according to the spirit of the story, rather than stay trapped somewhere as in case of Littlepip.[/size]


[size=35]I also hoped Goldenblood will live through this battle to see his beloved Fluttershy again, but it certainly won't happen. I just hope Whisper will live to meet her mother in person and get a real family.[/size]




[size=35]I better stop here and get some sleep while I can, but before I go there are some minor edits I'd like to mention:[/size]


[size=35]

Spoiler:

 [/size]


[size=35]Thanks for your attention. [/size]

[Sponsored content]