Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

[FeatherDust]

Gardens already happened.  That's what he was talking about when he said the Lightbringer's actions had held off the inevitable and given them time -- but it didn't fix the problem, which is the parasite draining life out of the world.

[Icy Shake]

I believe that the S.P.P. Day of Sunshine and Rainbows has happened, but not Gardens.

[FeatherDust]

Okay, right, that's correct.  That said we have no reason to believe Gardens could take out the Eater.  I'm fairly sure a star soul is an order of magnitude or two stronger than even a directed blast from the Elements of Harmony (which Gardens isn't!), and Tom is saying he has no idea if he can beat Eater in a stand-up fight.

Still, if they have decades or centuries before the draining has a serious effect, it seems like Tom could wait until they kill the FADE trap, then launch.

Oh, but I guess he doesn't really have any control over when the firing happens, so then he'd be depending on somebody manually pulling the trigger for him, maybe the countdown is the only way he can see to get fired sometime this century.

Still, that's a pretty big risk to be taking, looking at what failure entails.

[Icy Shake]

Right, but does the Eater actually need to be defeated? Everything was pretty much fine for some 80 million years, so it seems like if they can get the regeneration rate back above the soul siphoning rate, leaving it there is okay as long as they prevent a repeat of the Starkatteri ritual or some such. I guess if he figures that even if the lower bar is met, the mortals will go out of their way to fuck everything up again that could justify his position. But that didn't really seem to be what he was arguing.

[FeatherDust]

Right, but does the Eater actually need to be defeated? Everything was pretty much fine for some 80 million years

Tom did note that the Eater had been inert for a lot of that time, stunned by his fall (or the fight that led to it). The siphoning has only been happening in relatively recent history (at least on a geological timescale).

if they can get the regeneration rate back above the soul siphoning rate, leaving it there is okay as long as they prevent a repeat of the Starkatteri ritual or some such.

I could be wrong here, but I think every soul he sucks in is a permanent loss for the planet as a whole. There's only so much mako, and even if they can get the life generation rate high enough to make the world green and populated again, it'll still only be a matter of centuries or millennia before he swallows it all.

[ILM126]

I'm thinking of taking a few idea/designs from Vector-Brony's artwork on Stygius. Here's one example.

Stygius in his armour (Project-Horizons) by Vector-Brony:

As said in the chapter, " My synthetic limbs now resembled the dark purple armor the batponies wore" so that would mean she'll have leg armour on.

---

Right, but does the Eater actually need to be defeated? Everything was pretty much fine for some 80 million years

Well, this kind of has to happen. If the Soul Eater doesn't go, it will only just siphon more souls as time wears on. So nothing is going to get better, even with the Gardens activated.

[Icy Shake]

Right, but does the Eater actually need to be defeated? Everything was pretty much fine for some 80 million years

Tom did note that the Eater had been inert for a lot of that time, stunned by his fall (or the fight that led to it).  The siphoning has only been happening in relatively recent history (at least on a geological timescale).

if they can get the regeneration rate back above the soul siphoning rate, leaving it there is okay as long as they prevent a repeat of the Starkatteri ritual or some such.

I could be wrong here, but I think every soul he sucks in is a permanent loss for the planet as a whole.  There's only so much mako, and even if they can get the life generation rate high enough to make the world green and populated again, it'll still only be a matter of centuries or millennia before he swallows it all.

Right, but does the Eater actually need to be defeated? Everything was pretty much fine for some 80 million years

Well, this kind of has to happen. If the Soul Eater doesn't go, it will only just siphon more souls as time wears on. So nothing is going to get better, even with the Gardens activated.

But Tom said that the generation of new life, from the time of the Starkatteri ritual to the war, was more than he could consume. That implies that there was a flow of new souls greater than what he was taking. Likewise, following the Eater's initial fall, many, many souls were bound either in the moon or, presumably, Equestrian gemstones, yet given time and no intervention from the stars, new songs began which had not been there before, and it doesn't seem obvious that the planet had notably less life then than at the time of the great impact. Also, if the continued (greatly reduced, due to the proposed campaign to rid the world of the Enervation rings) drain were something that would in fact doom Equus in the very long term, even with the revival due to the Gardens, I would have expected Tom to bring that up, which I don't remember happening.

Editing:

[FeatherDust]

But Tom said that the generation of new life, from the time of the Starkatteri ritual to the war, was more than he could consume. That implies that there was a flow of new souls greater than what he was taking. Likewise, following the Eater's initial fall, many, many souls were bound either in the moon or, presumably, Equestrian gemstones, yet given time and no intervention from the stars, new songs began which had not been there before, and it doesn't seem obvious that the planet had notably less life then than at the time of the great impact.

The way I'm understanding it, the planet has a vast storehouse of unbodied souls -- or discorporate life energy, if you like. The Eater has two effects; one is to increase the rate of decay around it (ie, enervation); the other is to capture the energy that's released by a death.

Each time something dies and the Eater consumes it, that's a mote of energy that can't ever return to the planet's "ocean of souls". When the moon formed, those souls from things that were alive at the moment of the Eater's fall were sequestered there, a separate "ocean of souls" that isn't subject to the Eater's influence. But that didn't come close to draining the planet's total life potential -- over many millennia, life returned and the world grew green and full of life, but the soul-ocean it's drawing on at that point is smaller than it was originally, when the moon was still part of Equus.

If the planet becomes lifeless, the Eater will start consuming that soul-ocean energy directly until even things like rocks decay, then you get that dead gray husk-world from Tom's vision. But even if Gardens works and makes everything green and living again, it's just increasing the cycle rate of souls going in and out of the soul-ocean and being siphoned off by the Eater; it doesn't break the cycle or add more souls than there were before.

Also, if the continued (greatly reduced, due to the proposed campaign to rid the world of the Enervation rings) drain were something that would in fact doom Equus in the very long term, even with the revival due to the Gardens, I would have expected Tom to bring that up, which I don't remember happening.

The campaign to bury the Eater and the rings wasn't a final solution, BJ pitched it as a way to render the Eater mostly harmless until they could figure out a way to destroy it or hoist it off the planet. Tom was pretty clear that no matter what the ponies did to fix their world, it would never be a real solution until the Eater was gone.

[FeatherDust]

By the way, is Bastard played by Keanu Reeves for anyone else?

[FeatherDust]

My question is, what of Luna's soul? Is she still in Blackjack's body now or did she somehow combine with Blackjack's soul?

I don't think they're entirely combined, but they're no longer entirely separate either.  Luna and Blackjack are kind of in a soul harmony state, I think.

Personally, I think P-21's death was a bit more heartfelt than Glory's. While it seemed pretty evident to me that he'd be axed off ever since his story arc completed at the end of volume 4, it was still sad to see it happen. The only thing I didn't really like with the past few chapters were the number of fake-outs with it looking as though he was about to die but then ultimately surviving. Made me wonder if this was actually going to be his end.

Eh, you kinda knew he wasn't leaving the moon alive*, it was just a question of when and how.

* After the big conversation on the rocket with P21 and Blackjack both promising to get Scotch out alive if the other one fell, one of the two of 'em HAD to die and fulfill that promise, narratively speaking.  You don't set that up and then not pay it off.  And Blackjack can't die at this point in the story, so that really leaves only one pony with a target on his head.


But all that said, I'm pretty sure Glory is actually still alive, or at least only mostly dead.  The Perceptron sent Scotch into 'bodiless pain' which sounds a bit like being stuck in the Eater's orbit; but that only makes sense if the Perceptron somehow homed in on Glory's soul rather than the pipbuck on her hoof.  More likely she's in some kind of coma, or horribly burned by nuclear fire, or ... I don't know what.

But I'm nearly sure Triage and Morningstar were talking about Glory when they had the argument in BJ's vision in ch 73.  Morningstar wanted to do something with the regeneration pods to save one very important life, and used Glory's wing as evidence that it would work.  Then (s)he threatened, "What would Blackjack say if she knew how you were letting..."  ...Glory suffer?

[O. Hinds]

@Icy Shake:
Ah, thank you.  I've corrected Psalm's eyes to silver in 27.  However, your 71 correction is not actually in 71; it's in 74.

[SilentCarto]

But all that said, I'm pretty sure Glory is actually still alive, or at least only mostly dead.  The Perceptron sent Scotch into 'bodiless pain' which sounds a bit like being stuck in the Eater's orbit; but that only makes sense if the Perceptron somehow homed in on Glory's soul rather than the pipbuck on her hoof.  More likely she's in some kind of coma, or horribly burned by nuclear fire, or ... I don't know what.

But I'm nearly sure Triage and Morningstar were talking about Glory when they had the argument in BJ's vision in ch 73.  Morningstar wanted to do something with the regeneration pods to save one very important life, and used Glory's wing as evidence that it would work.  Then (s)he threatened, "What would Blackjack say if she knew how you were letting..."  ...Glory suffer?

Agreed and agreed, but that may only last long enough to have some final words with BJ.

[SilentCarto]

So, today I had the silly idea that FoE:PH needed Achievements! Or Trophies, if you're a Playstation type.

Ante Up
Leave the Stable.

Hush Now
Complete 'Play'.

Reaper
Kill Gorgon.

A Better Monster
Defeat Deus.

Sleeping Under the Stars
Get the key to the Star House.

Damned
Do what must be done.

Wish Upon a Star
Visit Spike's cave.

GIVE IT TO ME!
Use EC-1101 to unlock a security door.

Security Saves Ponies
Use Speech checks to avoid 10 fights.

Happy Birthday
Start a new game in Game Plus mode.

Ha. Ha. Ha.
Survive a Killing Joke.

A Wonderful, Wonderful Thing
Discover the secret of Project Chimera.

Cyberpony Blues
Run out of power during a fight.

A Happier Horn
Complete 'Lucidity'.

For the Sake of a Friend
Rescue Snails from Hightower.

Tank Killer
Defeat the Zebra Tank.

Maiden of the Stars
Earn your wings.

Bolt from the Blue
Destroy Shadowbolt Tower.

Boo's Clues
Complete 'Labyrinth'.

Agent of Apocalypse
Learn the Legate's true intentions.

Legacy of the Marauders
Open all of the special lockers at Miramare.

Rocketmare
Complete 'Ignition'.

Stars In Your Eyes
Use 5 doses of raw moon dust.

Golden Future
Help Cognitum rebuild Equestria.

Astro-Unstable
Defeat Cognitum.

Major Tom
Help Tom destroy the world.

Moon in the Mare
Psychoanalyze a Princess.

Le Voyage dans la Lune
Complete 'Apogee'.

Cosmic Horror
Help the Legate complete his ambitions.

Not So Immortal After All
Defeat the Legate.

No Gods, No Monsters
Establish an independent Hoof.



Also, an observation: Compiling this list saw me reviewing a number of pivotal moments in BJ's career. It occurred to me that both Shadowrun and Cyberpunk 20XX use rules that limit cybernetics by explaining how the more cybered-up someone gets, the more they lose touch with humanity, but Somber made me actually believe it.

[Vergil]

Lost it at "Boo's Clues."

Nice work!

[SilentCarto]

Lost it at "Boo's Clues."

Nice work!

Why thank you!

[Harmony Ltd.]

Very nicely done!

Just a quip, but as an achievement name, and associated with its description, isn't "Agent Of The Apocalypse" kinda spoilery?

[Harmony Ltd.]

Dropping the ball
Make a habit of mutilating stallions

Lucy in the Skies with Diamonds
Try the local treats in Flank

Large ham
Have a Paladin meet an Alicorn while the Goddess is still alive

Fool me once
Give Steel Rain his reward

Heart of Darkness
Complete 'Yellow River'

Nightrain
Get away in style

Spoiler:

Say hello to my little friend
Equip Lacunae with the minigun

Hail Hydra!
Regenerate a lost limb/organ

A New Dawn
Meet your lover's mother

Cloud-cuckoo-land
Discover life in the Enclave

[O. Hinds]

The train was after Hippocratic Research, IIRC.

[Harmony Ltd.]

Gone With The Wind
Choose a regent and get away with your prize

A Bigger Boat
Complete 'Celestia'

That And Taxes
Well, it was a good run

Spirit Animal
Meet your maker

The Ride Never Ends
Cheat death

Row, Row, Row Your Boat
Explore the Hoof through its waterways

Gott Mit Uns
Meet the Harbingers


This is really fun to do, actually. All my likes to Silentcarto.

[SilentCarto]

Very nicely done!

Just a quip, but as an achievement name, and associated with its description, isn't "Agent Of The Apocalypse" kinda spoilery?

Depends on which apocalypse you're worried about.  

The ones you suggested aren't bad, but I'd like to point out that Fallout rarely has specific acheivements for side quests or simple tasks like "Equip Lacunae with a minigun". They should also hinge on a single action, conversation, or location; how would you know when you've sufficiently "explored the Hoof through its waterways"? That would be better expressed as somthing like, "Survive a trip through Fallen Towers." But, on the other hoof, how do you play that in a game?

I also tried to stay away from anything that implied that character choices were forced. For example, a relationship with Glory would be a player choice, not a fixed part of the main storyline. Likewise, a player might choose to free the Society's slaves and kill all the nobles rather than choose a regent at all.
And BJ cheating death was phrased as "Start a new game in Game Plus mode".  

That said, I like the "Cloudcuckooland" achievement for "Complete 'Turbulence'".

I'm... actually a bit confused by "Spirit Animal". What is "meet your maker" supposed to mean?

[Harmony Ltd.]

Didn't she meet her mother during the spirit-vision sequence after her first death? As for the animal part... The player is the animal. Because they're a horse.

Edit: What Swicked said

[Icy Shake]

This is fun.

Stop DOING That!
Experience friendly fire from three party members.

The Iceburg Doesn't Always Win
Get hit by a water unit.

Oh, the Equinity!
Witness the crash of the Hurricane up close and personal.

Cyclops/Arrrgh!/Welcome to the Avengers Initiative
Lose one eye./Equip an eyepatch.

It's a Wonderful Life
See a vision of what the world would be like without you.

This isn't the Time
Survive first encounter with the Legate.

Stupid Sexy Pony
Survive being captured by Lancer.

Mute, Dark, and Handsome
Meet Stygius.

This isn't a Car
Take a ride in the Absolutely Everything.

Killer Queen
Complete 'Identity'.

Chivalry
Duel Stronghoof.

Imaginary Friend
Talk to the Dealer.

Cave of Wonders/Touch Nothing but the Lamp
Trigger the feral ghouls in the Boneyard.

Did I Stutter?
Lose dialog options due to the Goddess's control.

Puppet
Explore Roseluck Agrifarms while unconscious.

I've Got No Strings
Complete 'Departures'.

Good Doggy . . . Nice Doggy
Don't attack the first non-hostile hellhound you meet.

Call the ESPCA
Attack the first non-hostile hellhound you meet.

Health Inspector
Discover the Enclave's tainted food.

Honey, I'm Home! (Level 1)
Return to Stable 99 after it's gone raider.

Too Much Information
Make a radio broadcast about your sex life.

Honey, I'm Home! (Level 2)
Return to Star House with the 'Too Much Information' achievement.

Honey, I'm Home! (Level 3)
Return to Star House while Cognitum has your body.

Nobody's Worth It
Prevent a suicide attempt.

Pet
Equip collar and leash.

Into the West
Travel to Manehattan by boat.

Clever Girl
Equip Dragon Claw.

She's Just Not That Into You
Complete 'Monsters'.

Dead and Loving it
Visit Meatlocker.

The Bigger They Are
Defeat the Warden.

Poltergeist
Battle a soul jar.

Ghostbuster
Defeat a soul jar with the Starmetal Sword.

The White Mare's* Burden
Equip Duty and Sacrifice.
*Steed's? Better if it applies to both genders, and needs to be a single syllable. "Colt," maybe, since they were originally Vanity's.

I Bring The Jubilee
Free twenty slaves.

It's Good to be the Queen
Complete 'The Best Night Ever'.

I'm Not an Executioner levels 1 - X
Spare X

Now That's What I'm Talkin' About
Fire Folly.

Gumby/Marshmallow Pony
Acquire crippled limbs due to taint./Same, if character has white coat.

[decumos]

I'll Get You Next Time!
Spare Virgo Zodiac

Why So Serious?
Meet Sanguine

Mare Do Well Always Dresses In Style
Reveal the secret identity of Mare Do Well

I Never Asked For This
Install cybernetic augmentations

Canon Crusher
Kill the Lightbringer

[SilentCarto]

Didn't she meet her mother during the spirit-vision sequence after her first death? As for the animal part... The player is the animal. Because they're a horse.

Ah. Well okay then.

Canon Crusher
Kill the Lightbringer

Pfffthahahaha! I like it.

"Snake! You can't do that! The future will be changed! You'll create a time paradox!"

[Technowolf]

Zandatsu
Kill 10 cyborgs with a sword

0 - The Fool
Return to where your journey began

VI - The Lovers
Enter into a relationship

XIII - Death
Kill a total of 50 enemies

XXI - The World
Visit all map locations

There is no spoon
Get your magic back after losing it

Frankenstein's Monster
Accept Sanguine's offer

100% Synchronization
View all of the Operative dreams

[Icy Shake]

Ride of the Valkyries
Convince the Goddess to fly you to the top of Tenpony Tower.

Heirloom
Equip Vigilance.

Eat Your Heart Out
Eat Rampage's heart in Stable 99.

Big Brother (Sister) is Watching You
Use the Perceptitron.

Disturbing the Scene of a Crime
Enter Goldenblood's Cottage.

So Much for Milan, New York, and Japan
Equip Sexy.

Good for the Soul
Equip Boomstick.
(I really needed to stretch on this one.)

It Belongs in a Museum!
Equip the starmetal sword.

Nothing up my Sleeves
Learn the Magic Bullet spell.

No Business Like Show Business
Kill ten hostile characters while singing.

Lights Out
Be deactivated by a spark grenade.

Shoo Be Doo!/Call Upon the Sea Ponies
Meet Capricorn and Pisces./Hire Capricorn and Pisces.

Cast Iron Stomach levels:
Drink 'The Price'.
Drink a Rad-Away while not irradiated.
Eat Glory's cooking.
Eat a cyberpony cake.
Free level with 'Eat Your Heart Out'.
Others?

The Governor Said No
Fail the speech check to spare the warden at Brimstone's Fall.

[decumos]

Still Better Love Story Than Twilight
Discover the full story of Big Macintosh and Maripony romance

Au Contraire Mon Captain! He's Back!
Free the spirit of chaos from his prison

Thunder! Thunder! Thunder! Thunderheads!
Side with Lighthooves and gain an independance for Thunderhead

Opium of the Masses
Fully upgrade all Chapel's defences

Whore of The Wasteland/The Type of Pony Everypony Should Know
Have sex with 10 different ponies. Or zebras. Or anybody else.

[FeatherDust]

"Imaginary Friend" should be for learning the Dealer's real name.

[Evilgidgit]

Oooh, I wanna join in!

Passed Down the Stronghoof Line For Generations!
Defeat Paladin Stronghoof in battle.

Our Ship Has Come In
Survive having x5 heavy objects dropped on your head.

Definition of Mercy / Clearing House
Mercy kill the occupants of Stable #22.

Queen of Whiskey
Taming alicorns while drunk boosts your luck by x2.

You Want Sprinkles With That?
Clear out Pony Joe's.

Rubber Hoof Brigade
Defeat enemies with disabled legs.

Don't Play With Your Food
Win in a food fight against allies.

Some Assembly Required
Discover Stable #90.

Wings of Stone
Discover Stonewing's memorial in Meatlocker.

Taken For Granite
Discover Gorgon's farewell letter.

Heart of the Machine
Make peace with Deus/Doof.

Lofty Angels
Prevent the Angel of Death from taking another victim.

Family Matters
Track down Glory's sister to cheer her up.

Ticket To the Moon
Complete Marigold's story.

[ILM126]

So, today I had the silly idea that FoE:PH needed Achievements! Or Trophies, if you're a Playstation type.

Spoiler:

Also, an observation: Compiling this list saw me reviewing a number of pivotal moments in BJ's career. It occurred to me that both Shadowrun and Cyberpunk 20XX use rules that limit cybernetics by explaining how the more cybered-up someone gets, the more they lose touch with humanity, but Somber made me actually believe it.

Great idea XD

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