Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

[RoboRed]

Well, I finally got around to the chapter, and despite some people letting slip enough information outside the topic to send my overactive mind into a wild frenzy, I managed to thankfully draw the wrong conclusion. That being said...

Spoiler:

Music played:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

...FFFFFffffffffffaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaak.

In other news, Somber has 999 brohoofs as of this post. Anyone wanna do the honors?

[Silver136]

How does one "brohoof?"

Edit: Never mind, figured it out.

[Icy Shake]

Next stop: 1101.

[ILM126]

Did 1002 for Somber ^^

[Evilgidgit]

Ohhh, so that's where that thing Fluffle Puff worships is from.

Spoiler:

[BLame]

Really interesting Chapter, definitely enjoyed reading it and finally starting to see things wrapped up and concluded. 

Everyone else is using spoilers still, so I'll join in with that (although I'd have thought by now it's not really necessary).

Chapter 74 musings:

Thanks for all your hard work as ever Somber, PH remains a great read as ever!

[Icy Shake]

Bit late in bringing this up, but the last chapter got me wondering about why it is that Cognitum in Blackjack's body with Luna's soul did not get the real-alicorn treatment (size, ethereal mane, but still metallic wings), but Blackjack in Blackjack's body with Luna's soul did. (On which note, I wonder if her real, as opposed to metal-clad, horn got a size boost.) One possibility is that it's a mind/soul mismatch, like what Cognitum felt when inhabiting the body with Blackjack's soul in it, but less pronounced. But that seems unlikely since the same thing happened when Blackjack first returned to her own body. The most obvious case is that there was some kind of accord arrived at between the mind and soul which enabled the transformation, but it could also be the case that she underwent the kind of change that Twilight did, but without the Elements of Harmony. All interesting stuff, and I wasn't expecting much to speculate on so late in the game.

[O. Hinds]

I don't know for sure, but I'd been thinking that, as you suggested it might be, it was... "agreement" sounds like too weak a word for what I'm thinking, but it's the best I can think of.

[Somber]

Cogs did have a slight transformation, but she was tapped into the worst aspects of Luna.  The parts that wanted to dominate.  To control.  To punish.  And to rule.  As such, she became the cold, armored, gunpod controlling princess.  Blackjack clicked with Luna far more succinctly.  In fact, that was one of the primary cruxes of Horizons... Blackjack and Luna are nearly one.  Both had heaps of responsibility on them.  Both have suffered losses.  Both became far stronger than they wanted to be, and both yearn to redeam themselves for their past mistakes.  So she became the white princess.  And as Blackjack herself reflect 'Am I still Blackjack?'

Sorry for being so silent.  Fighting on a lot of anxiety and depression this week.  Brain is being stupid.

[O. Hinds]

Oh, sorry, Somber. Anything we can do?

Thanks for the clarification, though.

[Vergil]

Hang in there Somber, it's Friday!

Thanks for clearing that bit with Luna's soul up. This was one of those things for me where I had the right basic idea but was failing at properly translating it into words.

[ILM126]

Guys, I did something with a Luna puppet on Flash... Would this be about right?

Blackjack (ch74+):

[Epsilon]

@Somber, Thanks for clearing that bit up, I was wondering what exactly had happened there. Hope you're doing okay, though. We're here for you if you need us!

@ILM126
Not an artist, but to be honest, I think those colors look pretty garish. I mean, it's not your fault since you were going by the description Somber gave, but to me those particular shades just don't seem to mix very well, especially on white. Perhaps some deeper hues would help? I'd also make her coat a bit grey-er to make the transition between colors a little less shocking (see your Blackjack reference).

[Vergil]

She's wearing armor now from flank to chest iirc, similar to lunar guard armor. Not sure if her mark is covered. Otherwise, personally I thought of her mane as striped as per her old looks, but with purple in place of black. For an ethereal look that's pretty good, though.

[ILM126]

@Epsilon

Yeah, thanks for the advice. I just whipped the colours up very quickly, but I'm going to try and just adjust the colours now.


@Vergil

Hmmm, Lunar Guard Armour.... Alright, I'll try and make my own armour then ^^

[SilentCarto]

Otherwise, personally I thought of her mane as striped as per her old looks, but with purple in place of black. For an ethereal look that's pretty good, though.

I think it stopped being striped when Cogs went ethereal -- it was described looking fiery. I think it should be black-to-red (now blue-to-orange) gradient from top to bottom.

[Anonymouss]

Feedback... After week, i think i find right word: Radhope.

[ILM126]

Otherwise, personally I thought of her mane as striped as per her old looks, but with purple in place of black. For an ethereal look that's pretty good, though.

I think it stopped being striped when Cogs went ethereal -- it was described looking fiery. I think it should be black-to-red (now blue-to-orange) gradient from top to bottom.

@SilentCarto

Yeah, I think Vector-Brony did a great job at capturing that.

Cognitum Blackjack by Vector-Brony :

So, for Blackjack's mane, the bit that isn't transparent. It should be a gradient from black to darkish red?

[SilentCarto]

So, for Blackjack's mane, the bit that isn't transparent. It should be a gradient from black to darkish red?

I'd say so. As with Luna, I think the whole mane is colored the same, but the forelock stays put and doesn't have much transparency to it.

[SilentCarto]

Dude.

Dude.

BlackGryph0n and Baasik's new track is practically an anthem for the climax of Project Horizons.



I can’t be afraid
The world needs me
Everybody sees me every day
I can’t be afraid!

Good will find a way
That’s what they tell me
But as long as there’s evil
A hero has to rise...


(Chorus)
But I don't have to stand alone against a thousand armies
I've got an army of my own!

And we're shouting out
Tonight, we'll see the stars collide!
Cause as long as we’re alive, we’re fighting back tonight!


Waking from a bad dream into a nightmare,
Stepping out and once again there’s panic in the air
The sky is red and smoke darkens the horizon
I guess once again a force or foe is terrorizing.

My heart stops when the clock stops ticking
Cause I know I’ve gotta help while I’m alive and kicking
I remember days were never black but that’s over
Now that every day a demon’s back
And I’ve had it.

(Chorus)

And so you want to start a war
You don’t know what I have in store
I’ve never felt this way before
And you can’t stop me anymore

And so you want to start a war
You don’t know what we have in store
I’ve never felt this way before
And you can’t stop us anymore

(Chorus)

[Icy Shake]

Took me a while to reconcile what's going on in the story with the "stars collide" part, since where literal stars are concerned, that's exactly what Blackjack is trying to prevent. Then I remembered that things like metaphors, symbols, and epithets exist and are relevant to the point.

As another musical connection, for a long time I've kind of thought that "I Am No Hero" applies well to early Blackjack, and at least tonally, to mid and later Blackjack as well. And now it turns out that PH's Luna fits it better than would have been clear before maybe Volume Five, and is also merged with Blackjack.

[tylertoon2]

I have mentioned this before I'm pretty sure but Somber you have earned the wonderful gift of being able to create powerful emotional responses with your writing.

Was I happy with what happened in this chapter? No. But what happened was I was devastated by the events of the chapter. I was also moved in a very powerful way by what occurred to someone I had never met beyond what has been written by you.

You have a great gift. Yes you have plenty of room to improve. Everyone with a gift does. But it's still something you have and take solace in the fact you have that powerful quality to move people and make them care and relate to something.

[neoaustin]

@ILM126

This might help a bit

Bj's Alicorn description:

[neoaustin]

I can't remember, has Blackjack figured out her Virtue yet? If not what are the ones everyone are thinking?

[SilentCarto]

I can't remember, has Blackjack figured out her Virtue yet? If not what are the ones everyone are thinking?

I don't think it matters.

Spike was wrong, in a way. Selecting a Virtue is not what a hero should strive for. Virtues are a crutch to keep you alive and sane in the Wasteland, not a way to make sure you're doing the right thing. You can follow a virtue and still be a total bastard. Granted, it'll help keep you from becoming a raider... one hopes... but not much beyond that.

Heroes often burn out in the Wasteland because they're not trying to hold on to just one virtue; they try to be kind and honest and loyal and generous and everything else all at once. For someone like that, choosing a virtue is a form of surrender. It signals that you've decided that you can't hold on to all your ideals, and you're now picking and choosing what to compromise. Now, granted, if you want to settle down and quit the adventuring gig, that's probably necessary for the sake of mental health. But that's not where BJ is right now. She doesn't need to change, she needs to stand strong and do whatever it takes to end this threat. After that, if she survives, maybe she'll have the luxury of doing some soul-searching to figure out which part of herself she absolutely, positively cannot betray. But not today. That's a matter for #tomorrow.

[Icy Shake]

Here's how I see it: "Do better" doesn't operate on just one dimension.

[ILM126]

@SilentCarto

I'm just going to just try out the gradient for a test.

@ILM126

This might help a bit

Bj's Alicorn description:

Yeah, the armour bit is going to be a bit hard for me. I'll need to make a new one for Blackjack, there doesn't seemed to be any armour made for the puppets D=

From previous suggestions, I did some tampering with the puppet a bit more. I'm going to try and design/copy the design from the other's vector during this Thursday's stream, hopefully it would turn out well. For the gradient I'm thinking of changing it around a bit more. Instead of black to red, maybe dark blue/purple to red :\

colors of a sunset right before dusk

So here's the next version I got done, the armour is coming soon | http://prntscr.com/6hurbj

[FeatherDust]

I have not yet finished the newest chapter, so I'm not reading the backscroll yet.

However I find myself confused by Tom.  He's demanding that Horizons be fired, because the alternative is slow death of the planet.  But when BJ demands to know what happens if Cognitum's FADE trap works, it's the revival of a full-power Eater and instant annihilation of the planet.

It seems to me that Tom taking a huge chance, betting that the FADE trap won't work (and Cogs seems pretty sure it will if Horizons fires) and that he can defeat the Eater in one-on-one combat once he gets through.  Did I miss something, or is Tom rolling the dice against some very long odds?

And then he calls the ponies irrational for refusing to play along with this suicidal plan that has only a slim chance of success?

[Icy Shake]

I have not yet finished the newest chapter, so I'm not reading the backscroll yet.

However I find myself confused by Tom.  He's demanding that Horizons be fired, because the alternative is slow death of the planet.  But when BJ demands to know what happens if Cognitum's FADE trap works, it's the revival of a full-power Eater and instant annihilation of the planet.

It seems to me that Tom taking a huge chance, betting that the FADE trap won't work (and Cogs seems pretty sure it will if Horizons fires) and that he can defeat the Eater in one-on-one combat once he gets through.  Did I miss something, or is Tom rolling the dice against some very long odds?

And then he calls the ponies irrational for refusing to play along with this suicidal plan that has only a slim chance of success?

I think there are a couple threads contributing to this.
One is the classic:

1. We have to do something!
   
2. This is something.
   
3. We have to do this.
   

The other is how he'd already pretty much committed on this path, sacrificed himself, and been sitting around a couple hundred years waiting for it to happen.

And as long as they got the timing not-quite-right, the outcome would be everything dies instead of reviving the Eater. All they needed to do was make sure Horizons didn't go off right when Cognitum wanted it to.

Now, why Tom would go the route he did, which is contingent on a bunch of other stuff happening, I'm less sure of. Maybe star spirits don't have a way of just grabbing a bunch of moonstone on their own, and he didn't think that he'd be sufficient without it or help from other stars. May have missed a part where that was covered.

[Icy Shake]

Right, but not taking into account the possible actions of mortals doesn't make all that much sense when you consider how the reason the planet is (slowly) doomed if Horizons doesn't go off is because of . . . the actions of mortals. Though here I'm assuming that Tom was aware of the Gardens, just believing they wouldn't ever be activated.

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