Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

[Scootayay]

Woooo, new chapter.
*drops everything and starts reading*

[Evilgidgit]

Spoiler:

[Harmony Ltd.]

Still reading ch. 72, but I just want to note:

Spoiler:

[Icy Shake]

And, General Chaser, perhaps you should consider, as the superior general, whether he might have some ulterior motive for executing what appears to be a poor plan. 

...doesn't she? I remember her offering that as a possibility.
She's still Enclave, though, in any case. They practically define arrogance to a fault.

She did, but not until a little bit after that. And even then seemed to be pretty heavily favoring the hope we aren't playing into his hand strategy, which in fairness is pretty reasonable since if he does have something else going on then they're pretty much screwed whether they act with caution or not.

thanks for sharing, I guess. Relevant, why, exactly? This is the second time this has come up in maybe two pages.

...you don't remember him?

I do now. Haven't taken the time to check if he did that in more than just the one scene. And I wasn't questioning the fact that he didn't have his equipment anymore, just why he would bring that up. Seeing the older scene, I guess I do now, since he wasn't one of the ponies gelded by Blackjack but the cyberization process. But I was also primed to react a bit negatively to it by Blackjack's "mare or very unfortunate stallion" thing, when by that point she should have been pretty surprised if she wasn't in Dash.

was Velvet meant to come off as self-centered, short-sighted, and hypocritical (given independent knowledge of events in FoE)? Because that's what I was getting.

...is that not what she's like? I thought that was just what she's like. It's what I remember her being like...

I'm sure she wasn't . . . in individual scenes. I guess she's one of those less common cases where accurately portraying a character (and one on the source's protagonist's team at that) feels like character assassination.

[Harmony Ltd.]

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

[Harmony Ltd.]

That's what I thought. :)

[Scootayay]

Another neat chapter! I hope things get better for you, Somber. Seems like everything came together to bite you in the back this time.

General Thoughts:

Chapter 72 Edits:

[pokeperson1000]

Just wondering if Big Momma would care aout Big Daddy dying or not. seeing as how the highlanders weren't mentioned anywhere in the big battle (as far as i can remember), maybe she doesn't.

i dunno.

also, comment to everything in general, i enjoyed chapter 72.

P.S. wasn't the chapter originally going to be titled apogee? or was that a joke?

[Guest]

It's about time the plot armor came off.

This isn't the correct use of plot armor, is it? My understanding of Plot armor was main characters survive events that would kill other characters. Not main characters never die. Plot armor, at least my understanding of it, would not be dissolved by killing off one main character or even all of them. You'd either have to make these events stop occuring (which might be minor plot armor in of itself) or have the characters die when these events do occur to them regardless of main character status.

[Scootayay]

It's about time the plot armor came off.

This isn't the correct use of plot armor, is it? My understanding of Plot armor was main characters survive events that would kill other characters. Not main characters never die. Plot armor, at least my understanding of it, would not be dissolved by killing off one main character or even all of them. You'd either have to make these events stop occuring (which might be minor plot armor in of itself) or have the characters die when these events do occur to them regardless of main character status.

Idioms (and tropes) are not an exact science, but I think my meaning was pretty clear. Characters are protected by plot armor until it is dramatically appropriate, at which point their plot armor comes off. (Nothing prevents it from reactivating later, unless the character is, y'know... dead.)
In the end it just comes down to semantics.

[Epsilon]

Thoughts on chapter 72:

[Guest]

Well, I wouldn't bring it up, but you're not the first to claim plot armor in PH is gone. In fact I think the first to do so was Hinds. Which is more likely than not an untrue statement.

[O. Hinds]

@Ryx:
re the spotted error:
Whoops! Thank you for pointing that out. Ah, huh, though it looks like one of the others already got that one. I did see that swicked had edited the doc earlier.

I'm glad you liked the chapter.


@Icy Shake:
Ah, thank you.

Umm . . . that's a kind of warfare, and one that was used extensively in Hoofington two hundred years ago.

That came up in the editing discussion, actually. It turns out that Storm Chaser has some, from my point of view, at least, unusual ideas about what is and isn't (proper) warfare. Well, she was educated in the same system that turned out such luminaries as the Captains Icyhot and Colonel "I'm just going to assume that my soldiers are all as okay with massacring helpless civilians as I am" Autumn Leaf.
I found it quite interesting how much we learned about Storm Chaser and how much we could infer or hypothesize about GPE military culture, really.

But how do you expect the prayers to reach it if you don't have magic smoke incense to carry it? Has so much been lost to the ages?

:D

Okay, I'd thought that he only had his helmet off until now.

Ah, you must have missed the bit where the flex after getting his hair cut was so powerful that it burst his armor off.
By the way, when when that happened, I came up with the hypothesis that the Stronghoof Line has actually, for generations, just been getting really lucky with the radiation and taint mutations. It would explain a few things, I think.

Now I just have to imagine that this happens all the time. And it's great.

See swicked's post above. :D

That's really thick fabric.

It isn't. I was confused by this too, but everyone else on the team thought that the wording was clear. The cut is lateral, but there's apparently something about the geometry of the blade and strike vs. the limb and exactly how much resistance the suit offers that prevented the blade from just stabbing through the cut here.


@Evilgidgit:
Thank you, though that's already been pointed out.

Carrion spent hundreds of years in the guy's service, obeying his orders and following his whims. You can't tell me he doesn't hear the guy's voice in his head, too :P

I thought that it was much less than that? Wasn't Carrion with other people for most of the two centuries?


@scootayay:
Ah, thank you.

> The four fell back

No, that's valid.

> cliffs?

Why?

Double spaces EVERYWHERE

What do you mean?

P.S. wasn't the chapter originally going to be titled apogee? or was that a joke?

The title was changed, yes.

Well, I wouldn't bring it up, but you're not the first to claim plot armor in PH is gone. In fact I think the first to do so was Hinds. Which is more likely than not an untrue statement.

...What do you mean?

[Guest]

Oh, and I'm currently only saying that Glory is probably dead.  There are still quite a few ways she could have survived that.  It's not likely, granted, but it's possible.
But, yes... the plot armor is off now.  Blackjack, as the viewpoint character, is probably safe until the end... but everyone else?

Went back and grabbed the quote. I can't say what Somber will do in the next couple chapters but It's pretty safe to say based on past experience that the characters will encounter situations that would kill them but because of plot they won't suffer that consequence. If I'm wrong feel free to call me on it.

[O. Hinds]

I suppose that I certainly could have been mistaken, yes. I assure you, though, that I did not deliberately seek to provide you with information that I knew to be false.

[Harmony Ltd.]

That's really thick fabric.

It isn't.  I was confused by this too, but everyone else on the team thought that the wording was clear.  The cut is lateral, but there's apparently something about the geometry of the blade and strike vs. the limb and exactly how much resistance the suit offers that prevented the blade from just stabbing through the cut here.

I thought it was simply because the suite is a Soul Jar and thus -almost- invincible?

[Scootayay]

> The four fell back

No, that's valid.

I wasn't sure, but if you say so. It sounds very archaic though and I feel like there's at least one comma missing in there.

> cliffs?

Why?

If you really want to reinforce that the mountains are made out of moonstone as well, I guess it's valid. I don't think that's really neccessary though; what else would they be made out of? Maybe just leave out the "the":
"with immense crags of rock thrusting up"

Double spaces EVERYWHERE

What do you mean?

All the spaces between sentences are duplicated.

---

I can't say what Somber will do in the next couple chapters but It's pretty safe to say based on past experience that the characters will encounter situations that would kill them but because of plot they won't suffer that consequence.

Yes, but that's not a contradiction.

Characters are protected by plot armor until it is dramatically appropriate, at which point their plot armor comes off. (Nothing prevents it from reactivating later, unless the character is, y'know... dead.)

I think the misunderstanding here is caused by different definitions of plot armor.
In my definition, the plot armor comes off for every single event in which the character is affected/hurt by an event because the plot demands it. If I'm not mistaken, your definition of plot armor is that it's always in effect, even when the character gets hurt by an event because the plot demands it, but once it comes off it stays off forever.

[Guest]

If your claiming plot armor is off for the story then a character avoids death in that story because the plot demands it then you have been contradicted. If it can be slid on and off by the author's discretion than there's no point in saying it's off, that's exactly the same as it was before. There is no difference between it being on and off by your definition.

[Scootayay]

It's a figure of speech goddammit. The more accurate form would be "the plot armor is coming off more frequently", but that just sounds rather stupid.

[O. Hinds]

I wasn't sure, but if you say so. It sounds very archaic though and I feel like there's at least one comma missing in there.

If you really want to reinforce that the mountains are made out of moonstone as well, I guess it's valid. I don't think that's really neccessary though; what else would they be made out of? Maybe just leave out the "the":
"with immense crags of rock thrusting up"

They're fine the way they are as far as I can tell; sorry.

All the spaces between sentences are duplicated.

That is not a mistake. That is the standard that Somber (and thus PH) and I use. ...Ah, sorry if I got a bit prickly there; you probably just didn't realize.

[Scootayay]

All the spaces between sentences are duplicated.

That is not a mistake.  That is the standard that Somber (and thus PH) and I use.

Ah, alright. Probably should have come to that realization myself after reading PH for so long, but I guess I just never really paid attention to that. Thanks for the clarification.

[O. Hinds]

No problem.

[BlueSoldier]

New here, with the recent events of Glory I wanted to ask a question I'd been wondering for a while..

Spoiler:

So back on topic, 

Spoiler:

[O. Hinds]

Welcome to the forum, BlueSoldier! I'm afraid that I don't know the answer to your question, though.

[Epsilon]

I get the feeling that it might have at least contributed. Glory never really cottoned on to Blackjack's polygamous attitude towards relationships, and while she may have grown tolerant to it towards the end, it seemed to me that she felt akin to a third wheel who now lacked something that P-21 and Blackjack shared. More importantly, it was something that she could never really have with Blackjack either.

And welcome to the forums! Always nice to see a new face around here.

[Somber]

Glory felt that Blackjack had far more ties with P-21 than she had with Glory.  That they had been drifting apart, and that Blackjack was better with him than her.  Glory was not able to simply embrace the polyamory that P-21 could, having come from a nuclear family with a different set of sexual norms.  She knew that their relationship was fundamentally flawed, and so tried to take herself out of it.

Also, I'm really glad the chapter seemed to work.  Next one will focus on Blackjack much more, so hopefully it won't be so bad.

[Scootayay]

Also, I'm really glad the chapter seemed to work.  Next one will focus on Blackjack much more, so hopefully it won't be so bad.

Don't misunderstand. The chapter definitely wasn't bad. I think it was great to see what was going on in the rest of the Hoof and that the other plot lines weren't just ignored.

[Borsuq]

Agreed on the chapter being good :). Given how much time was spend on explaining the battle plan, it would have been a waste to not show how it was going within Hoofington while Blackjack is in space (how is that not an internet meme yet? "Blackjack in Space!"). I enjoyed this chapter far much that the last time Percepticon (sorry if mispelled) was so heavily used, and I love how both of those ended with Rampage.

Also, I love how it was suggested that Glory might be alive in some fashion. I know a lot of people keep saying that it would kill the story if it would turn out that she survived, that heroism has a price and all, but really, considering the ways that she could survive, I would say that's enough of a payment. Neighter ghoulification or cyberyzation is pleasant (as we know the latter to be thanks to this story; honestly, prior to reading Horizons, I never thought about it. Now I never take that perk in Fallout, and in Old World Blues I swap all the organs back), and lets not forget about tentacle-penises and other less pleasant things that can come along within Hoof. Anyways, I'm glad that Blackjack was given some hope, at least for now. I think we can all agree that was a good thing, regardless whether we want Glory to be alive or not (I want!)

On that note, I seem (I think; read that about a year ago. Not rereading some last 15 chapters until the story ends) to remember a certain pink pony saying that everything will be okay. And seeing how somepony else dying would be the worst for Blackjack...

Anyways, I can't wait for the next chapter. I definetly want to see how Blackjack handles Rampage. I wonder how exactly Rampage plans to kill her; I think it was long proven that Blackjack is a great fighter, and with P-21 backing her up... I mean, I know Rampage cannot be killed, but even she has to realize that there are ways of stopping her. I mean, hell, vacuum is right around the corner, that's ought to give her some pause. Or something like this:

(sorry, couldn't find an english version)

Regardless, before Blackjack finds the way to convince her (or something other happens that Somber thought off), I do hope we see Rampage get some punishment. She turned her back on Blackjack when she begged her for help (for her and her unborn foals I might add), supported Cogs, even when Big Daddy objected to her, helped her deceit everybody, and then did not stopped her in the previous chapter, which makes her partially responsible for whatever happened to Glory. Let Blackjack unload Sexy into her head a few times or something.

[Scootayay]

Blackjack still considers Rampage as a friend. Whether Rampage does the same is the question.
Rampage only turned on Blackjack because she was standing in the way of her achieving the one thing that matters to her. Death.

To get past her, they will either have to find another way for Rampage to die, or somehow make her want to live. Of course they also could just find a way to stall her until Horizons is stopped, but I don't think that's what's going to happen.

[Borsuq]

Well, yeah, but it's a friend that cannot die. I would expect Blackjack to vent some of her frustration on her. That, and they need to keep her down long enough to convince her.

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