Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

[SilentCarto]

The other is hidden.  If I kill 200 raiders, some NPC's should react with fear or respect.  If I do 200 helpful side quests, then I should have a reputation for being helpful.  If I successfully barter, speech, or intimidate for more money, I should be ruthless.  And so on and so on.  There shouldn't be a bar for this.  It should simply be an aspect of the game that goes on as I play.

I like this concept -- it seems to me it would operate something like the "Child Killer" perk in FO1/2. Once you hit the breakpoint for a given reputation, you gain a permanent rep as "dangerous" or "kind to children" or whatever. That would also play in nicely with high-profile quests like killing Caesar, which could earn you a rep all on their own. You might even be able to work off certain reps, like if you got taken in by a con man and became an "easy mark" until you called out 10 lies or got your Barter skill over 30 or something. (Or exploited the reputation to pull a Sting on another con man...)

For that matter, it could also be influenced by your play style. Someone who explodes a lot of pants might be considered a "trickster" or "sneaky", while someone who's taken more than 100,000 damage might be thought of as "made of iron".

For additional verisimilitude, acts might need to be witnessed ("cannibal"...) in order to influence your rep, and perhaps certain companions are blabbermouths or tight-lipped (or either, depending on the conversations you have,) which would determine whether they count as a witness or not. Talking about your exploits with sufficient skill might even allow you to nudge certain reps, if you don't mind the danger of earning a rep for being "boastful" at the same time. Of course, that might not work if you're already known as a "liar"...

Heck, there could even be certain people you could pay to spread rumors about you in order to gain false reputations.

Unfortunately, it's an ugly cycle--Most soldiers actually enjoy deployment--particularly infantrymen like myself and other Combat Arms-branch personnel--but, afterward, it's back to the garrison bullshit, being treated like a child by Sergeants Major and senior Officers who've not seen the outside of their office in a decade...

It's probably a choice of evils, really. You don't want the veteran professionals who know when and when not to screw around accidentally teaching the noobs that screwing around is okay. To put it in terms of my personal sphere of expertise, programming, you occasionally have to do something that's Not Done in order to work around a problem, but you should comment that code as a hack and explain why you did it because you don't want a less expert programmer to go in and think, "Oh, so that's how you do that!" and apply it to every situation. (Or an expert to come along and say, "Why in the blue hell did he use a goto?!")

Fifth: make it clear the legion value strength over law. Strength of body. Strength of mind (Sometimes intelligence, sometimes stubbornness). Strength of word (In expression AND in honoring your word). Strength of deed (Doing what you will). If someone is corrupt, it is because they are weak. If someone can not survive without help, it is because they need to be made strong, or finished off. This makes the NCR, with it's emphasis on the power of society and civilization even more anathema to the Legion. The legion isn't attacking the NCR because they're weak and are an easy opponent. The NCR must be attacked at the very least to help it and the weak, sick people who suffer under it. And House isn't evil because he's decadent. He's evil because he survives, literally, by having very fancy cruches to keep him alive. Take those away and he's dead.

I like these ideas a lot, but especially this one.

[Frost]

Well there are a few things that would have helped Caesar's legion as a faction.

One, having a decent Legion companion.  Some one like Vulps, but not as creepy.  Bonus points if it would have been a woman.  And one who would question why you help the weak.  I mean if Novac isn't strong and capable enough to take out a couple of ghouls, then why should it be allowed to stand at all?  The Legion wouldn't just protect Novac, it would insist on strength.  Yeah, that means a couple people would get their asses kicked and a couple more nailed to a cross as an example.  At the end of the day, when you walked away, you knew Novac wasn't just going to stand on its own, but thrive.

From my understanding, Ulysses was originally slated to be a Legion companion (and there was supposed to be a lot more East-of-Colorado territory to explore) it was cut for time constraints.

Two: have the slavery be a punishment for criminals.  "Hey, we at least give them a choice if they're guilty: death or slavery.  Either way, they fucked up.  We're not like the NCR that says your guilty and then does whatever we want to you.  Or worse, let you pay a thousand caps and call it a day."

Three: Make it clear this isn't JUST Caesar.  This makes for a great miniquest (like BJ picking the Society leader) where you can help Caesar choose his successor: some one strong, some one fair, or some one smart?

This, in conjunction with your following points--make it clear that the Legion's strength-focused culture and warrior ethos are within reason--for instance, Joshua Graham would have been executed/exiled because he was a brutal psychopath who tossed his men into a meatgrinder like trash in brute-force "tactics" rather than using any sort of strategy, not because his suicidal charge failed or because he was a political threat to Caesar.

Four: Get rid of the 'all women are slaves' bullshit.  You close off that entire faction to anyone that wants to play a semi-realistic game with a female character.  Make is clear the legion values strength, and that the penis doesn't have any muscles in it.  Now you can show the legion has misogynistic elements in it.  In fact, I encourage it!  But don't make them ALL that way.

This, I agree with wholeheartedly--while the creators have made explanations (the men are also, by law, slaves, and the women are used to keep numbers up and do "dishonorable" non-warrior trades) those explanations are still full of holes--the least of which being that, in a toxic wasteland, with distinctly Luddite views of medicine and technology, a lot of women are going to be infertile or otherwise not available for being professional mothers--and there's no reason not to have them, at least, on the frontlines.

Fifth: make it clear the legion value strength over law.  Strength of body.  Strength of mind (Sometimes intelligence, sometimes stubbornness).  Strength of word (In expression AND in honoring your word).  Strength of deed (Doing what you will).  If someone is corrupt, it is because they are weak.  If someone can not survive without help, it is because they need to be made strong, or finished off.  This makes the NCR, with it's emphasis on the power of society and civilization even more anathema to the Legion.  The legion isn't attacking the NCR because they're weak and are an easy opponent.  The NCR must be attacked at the very least to help it and the weak, sick people who suffer under it.  And House isn't evil because he's decadent.  He's evil because he survives, literally, by having very fancy cruches to keep him alive.  Take those away and he's dead.

Thereby giving legitimacy to Vulpes' and Lanius' references to Social Darwinism as a cornerstone of Legion philosophy, rather than the hilarious hypocrisy we see (such as the Legion sending assassins after a player who kills Caesar, when former Fruumentarius Ulysses outright states that, by the Legion's supposed philosophy, Caesar deserved death for being too weak to defend himself.)

And, yes, references to a reimagined "four humors" or "four pillars" philosophy of Body, Mind, Word and Deed as a cornerstone in Legionary thought and rhetoric would lend a method to the madness, as opposed to their portrayal as brutal thugs who just bully their way through the weak.

In that same vein, their programming had them be the most likely to flee from a fight out of all the major factions, when, fluff-wise, they fight to the death and commit suicide before surrender. Many, many, many references are made to Legionaries being rape-happy bastards because, y'know, rape is mean and they're dicks like that. While a Social Darwinist society would have far different views on rape than the ones that modern society or the NCR has, it still wouldn't be just a matter of course as the Legion treats it in-game.

[Shady]

Does anybody happen to know if the user ''Robojan'' from the fo:e Wikia has an account here? He is always so fast with updating the .epub if a new chapter comes out, which makes me happy so I can just dump it on my e-reader instead of struggling with Gdocs. 

That'll happen with Windows 8. It's optimized for touch screens, so its really not great on regular computers. That's why the UI is so weird and it has so much trouble running things that have worked fine on previous operating systems.

Classic shell works for a lot of people. The look and feel of W7 with W8 under the hood.

[Whiskey Rebellion]

Well there are a few things that would have helped Caesar's legion as a faction.

One, having a decent Legion companion.  Some one like Vulps, but not as creepy.  Bonus points if it would have been a woman.  And one who would question why you help the weak.  I mean if Novac isn't strong and capable enough to take out a couple of ghouls, then why should it be allowed to stand at all?  The Legion wouldn't just protect Novac, it would insist on strength.  Yeah, that means a couple people would get their asses kicked and a couple more nailed to a cross as an example.  At the end of the day, when you walked away, you knew Novac wasn't just going to stand on its own, but thrive.

Two: have the slavery be a punishment for criminals.  "Hey, we at least give them a choice if they're guilty: death or slavery.  Either way, they fucked up.  We're not like the NCR that says your guilty and then does whatever we want to you.  Or worse, let you pay a thousand caps and call it a day."

Three: Make it clear this isn't JUST Caesar.  This makes for a great miniquest (like BJ picking the Society leader) where you can help Caesar choose his successor: some one strong, some one fair, or some one smart?

Four: Get rid of the 'all women are slaves' bullshit.  You close off that entire faction to anyone that wants to play a semi-realistic game with a female character.  Make is clear the legion values strength, and that the penis doesn't have any muscles in it.  Now you can show the legion has misogynistic elements in it.  In fact, I encourage it!  But don't make them ALL that way.

Fifth: make it clear the legion value strength over law.  Strength of body.  Strength of mind (Sometimes intelligence, sometimes stubbornness).  Strength of word (In expression AND in honoring your word).  Strength of deed (Doing what you will).  If someone is corrupt, it is because they are weak.  If someone can not survive without help, it is because they need to be made strong, or finished off.  This makes the NCR, with it's emphasis on the power of society and civilization even more anathema to the Legion.  The legion isn't attacking the NCR because they're weak and are an easy opponent.  The NCR must be attacked at the very least to help it and the weak, sick people who suffer under it.  And House isn't evil because he's decadent.  He's evil because he survives, literally, by having very fancy cruches to keep him alive.  Take those away and he's dead.

1. I remember reading that Ulysses was at one point meant to be a Legion companion, but was cut due to time restraints. What could have been. But yes, I always thought the legion was underdeveloped and just uninterestingly evil. There's nobody saying "Well Caesar actually is doing the right thing by making the weak strong and the strong stronger." It's all "Yeah, Caesar's not a nice dude." The only person who isn't part of the legion who supports them is Raul, and that's just because they make the roads safe, something the NCR does in its territory in the west.

2. This is the most blatantly obvious one here. I'm really surprised that Obsidian didn't add this in. It would make the slavery thing less pointless evil, and make you think twice about freeing slaves. They might be giant murder-rapists, and not just victims.

3. I think that part was actually purposeful. Caesar has a cult of personality so large that the thought of him dying is inconceivable, and a successor is unnecessary. He's the son of Mars, after all. However, it would be more realistic if he were discreet about it, I think. "I don't want everything I've built to fall apart when I die. Wanna get me a successor?"

4. I don't think it's even possible to have a sustainable society where more than half the population is composed of slaves. I would understand if they were second-class citizens, like they were for most of history, but outright slaves I don't get. What makes this especially egregious is how the Legion veterans have seen female rangers and the like kicking all kinds of ass, and they still don't think they're fit to fight.

5. There's nothing I have to say about this one. You summed it up well enough.

6. I think what would play a big part in making the Legion feel like an actual place and not three military camps scattered along the Colorado would be expanding the gameplay border eastward. See what it's actually like living under the Legion, instead of what people have to say about it. Still, time constraints.

[Scienza]

Let's not forget that with Lonesome Road, you can nuke the NCR and the Legion. So there goes any chance of more foreign imperialism. Can't get many reinforcements when everyone else in the western US is dead.

Well, you don't nuke the NCR or Legion exactly. You just nuke the interstates leading to Vegas, effectively cutting off the supply lines. Not exactly the best idea, really, considering the fact that you would be completely denying the possibility of foreign trade once resources in Vegas begin to dwindle.

Oh, is that the case?

Well that makes a lot of sense. I always wondered how like six missiles could destroy that large an area.

But yeah, you're cutting off all trade routes basically, but you have to consider another thing; inbreeding. In order to maintain a non-inbred population, there must be 10,000 or more people in the breeding pool. I feel like there's a lot less than 10,000 people in the Mojave.

A little inbreeding never hurt. Third eyes are all the rage these days.

The routes would presumably be safe to pass through long before inbreeding became a problem (there's enough genetic diversity in the Mojave's population that it would take many generations before they reached the point where everyone became their own in-laws). You'd only really see inbreeding become a large-scale problem in a situation like one of the Vaults, where there's only a few hundred individuals at most, and even then, only after a whole bunch of generations.

[Whiskey Rebellion]

A little inbreeding never hurt. Third eyes are all the rage these days.

The routes would presumably be safe to pass through long before inbreeding became a problem (there's enough genetic diversity in the Mojave's population that it would take many generations before they reached the point where everyone became their own in-laws). You'd only really see inbreeding become a large-scale problem in a situation like one of the Vaults, where there's only a few hundred individuals at most, and even then, only after a whole bunch of generations.

According to real physics, you're right about the radiation dispersing. But Fallout doesn't run on science, it runs on SCIENCE!. Science says that radiation kills ants. SCIENCE! says radiation turns them into fire-breathing monsters the size of moose. Science says wooden structures would have collapsed in on themselves quickly after the war. SCIENCE! says that they didn't because reasons.

All those pits of radiation around the Capital or the Mojave should have been long gone, according to science. According to SCIENCE!, however, they were still there and still lethal. SCIENCE really only serves to further the plot, but assuming it adopted the rule of law and inbreeding wasn't overridden by SCIENCE!, the Mojave would be full of desert Swampfolk.

[Frost]

To be fair, Fallout SCIENCE! Doesn't serve the plot, but rather the plot is tailored to a universe of SCIENCE! As is seen in the design aesthetics, the universe is a tribute to '50's-style pseudoscience. 

Also of note is that while Ulysses' NCR target is indeed the Long 15, he's targeting the Legion themselves, as their leadership and massed strength is gathered at the Dam with only token peacekeepers in the East

Considering we're talking about a major city's population and several self-sufficient tribes, I don't foresee inbreeding being a problem for a very, very long time--not that contact would be long-lost with the NCR, anyway. The nuclear fire and intense radiation/ freshly-irradiated monsters along Long 15 would only be a problem for a matter of months; they'd soon die down enough that reinforced and radiation-shielded convoys could pass through easily enough. Ulysses' intent was that those few months would give the Legion time to carve up what NCR forces remained in the Mojave.

[Epsilon]

Honestly, I wonder if it was originally intended for Fallout 3 to take place about 20 years after the bomb before radical changes to the main storyline were made. Would've made much more sense in that context... why everything is still tinted green, why there hasn't been any floral overgrowth, why radiation levels are still so high, how Little Lamplight could possibly still exist, why so many structures are still intact, why pre-war food is still edible...

[Whiskey Rebellion]

Honestly, I wonder if it was originally intended for Fallout 3 to take place about 20 years after the bomb before radical changes to the main storyline were made. Would've made much more sense in that context... why everything is still tinted green, why there hasn't been any floral overgrowth, why radiation levels are still so high, how Little Lamplight could possibly still exist, why so many structures are still intact, why pre-war food is still edible...

Green Tint- This actually wouldn't happen at all. Radiation is an invisible killer. According to science, at least. SCIENCE! has always assumed it was green, so I'll explain my theory in that section.

Floral Overgrowth- I'm baffled by this actually. Chernobyl is a nature preserve today, since people who come in and try to tear things down end up dying of radiation, but the plants can survive it. Maybe more SCIENCE!, maybe the soil was poisoned by pre-war happenings.

Radiation- Two things could happen, if science were to be running the Fallout universe. One, DC was nuked way more than necessary, and the radiation there now is just a fraction of what it was when the bombs first dropped. I think that's supported by the rad level outside of the door of Vault 86. Secondly, it could be that Megaton wasn't an isolated incident, and there were bombs that didn't go off in a lot of places. Less likely, I think.

Little Lamplight- Hidden reinforcements. It was actually an artificial cave built for the express purpose of kids doing camping or whatever. Inefficient? Yes, but the pre-war was full of that.

Structures- There's an actually viable explanation for this. They were Ragnarök-proofed. Look at the chunks missing from the Washington Monument, and you can see giant steel bars that aren't really there. It can be assumed that most buildings had similar renovations.

Food- Lead-lined packaging.

[Frost]

Unfortunately, it's an ugly cycle--Most soldiers actually enjoy deployment--particularly infantrymen like myself and other Combat Arms-branch personnel--but, afterward, it's back to the garrison bullshit, being treated like a child by Sergeants Major and senior Officers who've not seen the outside of their office in a decade...

It's probably a choice of evils, really. You don't want the veteran professionals who know when and when not to screw around accidentally teaching the noobs that screwing around is okay. To put it in terms of my personal sphere of expertise, programming, you occasionally have to do something that's Not Done in order to work around a problem, but you should comment that code as a hack and explain why you did it because you don't want a less expert programmer to go in and think, "Oh, so that's how you do that!" and apply it to every situation. (Or an expert to come along and say, "Why in the blue hell did he use a goto?!")

I do apologize, I initially missed this.

I'd have to disagree. Even the most brain dead cliche-spouting SGM or field-grade officer knows that Soldiers--officers and NCO's included--are always going to screw around, get drunk, marry a stripper with two kids, wrap their cars around a telephone pole, borrow a few hundred dollars from you to get it fixed and never fucking pay you back


Ahem. 

Point being, it's less an educated choice of curtailing disorderly conduct (because the best way to do that would be the experienced guys, who could keep their guys in check while letting them blow off steam) and more the delusion that Standards, Discipline, and Leading By Example (tm) will keep amped-up, war-hungry hard-drinking young men from being amped- up, war-hungry hard-drinking young men.

[Epsilon]

1. I know it wouldn't, but in the Fallout universe the empirical evidence (Based on Searchlight and the Long-15 after its been nuked) suggests that this green tint remains only for a time after an area has been nuked or otherwise sufficiently radiated. The fact that other locations in New Vegas that were confirmed to have been hit (Black Mountain, the other unmarked crater) aren't tinted would suggest that this clears over time.

3. Actually, that wouldn't really make much sense to me considering Vault 86. Why is the radiation level from a single detonation still so high there while the radiation from multiple concentrated detonations has all but cleared?

4. You're going to have to clarify this a bit. Reinforcements? From where?

5. That's a fair point, though I was more referring to the buildings that appear to have been made exclusively out of wood, and why they haven't rotted away entirely. See Springvale. (Though I'm still not sure how the buildings directly around the White House could possibly be so intact after a direct hit from a nuclear blast)

6. That wouldn't prevent the food from going bad, even if it were packed with preservatives. At the least, it wouldn't explain why it's still copiously available after 200 years of scavenging.

Ergh, trying to comprehend Fallout's logic seems to be more trouble than its worth.

[Whiskey Rebellion]

1. I know it wouldn't, but in the Fallout universe the empirical evidence (Based on Searchlight and the Long-15 after its been nuked) suggests that this green tint remains only for a time after an area has been nuked or otherwise sufficiently radiated. The fact that other locations in New Vegas that were confirmed to have been hit (Black Mountain, the other unmarked crater) aren't tinted would suggest that this clears over time.

2. Actually, that wouldn't really make much sense to me considering Vault 86. Why is the radiation level from a single detonation still so high there while the radiation from multiple concentrated detonations has all but cleared?

3. You're going to have to clarify this a bit. Reinforcements? From where?

4. That's a fair point, though I was more referring to the buildings that appear to have been made exclusively out of wood, and why they haven't rotted away entirely. See Springvale. (Though I'm still not sure how the buildings directly around the White House could possibly be so intact after a direct hit from a nuclear blast)

5. That wouldn't prevent the food from going bad, even if it were packed with preservatives. At the least, it wouldn't explain why it's still copiously available after 200 years of scavenging.

Ergh, trying to comprehend Fallout's logic seems to be more trouble than its worth.

1. I... uh... well... Oh, I know! It is literally magic! You know those Virulent Underchambers? Well, that pillar thing is an old god, and if you look at it, you'll see it is, in fact, green. What do you see if you sneak while approaching it? Ghouls emerging from nowhere. What are ghouls made by? Radiation.

2. Maybe it had a Megaton-like event. The super mutants detonated it to keep away outsiders.

3. I meant things like steel beams within the stone. When they were building the cave, they added those so they wouldn't be sued by bereaved parents in the event of a cave-in. They overcompensated a bit.

4. The argument could be made that the radiation has killed any bacteria. But, yeah, the buildings around the White House have no business being anything more than rocks.

5. Well, maybe they were packaged with little chunks of uranium-238? It would keep out the bacteria, and it would explain the radiation you get when you eat it.

[Frost]

1. I... uh... well... Oh, I know! It is literally magic! You know those Virulent Underchambers? Well, that pillar thing is an old god, and if you look at it, you'll see it is, in fact, green. What do you see if you sneak while approaching it? Ghouls emerging from nowhere. What are ghouls made by? Radiation.

The pallid green influence spreading all over the city, an utter lack of plant life, 90% of all people are raving psychopathic Raiders, some places are outright toxic to be in....combine that with the other weird shit like the people that think they're vampires, the aliens' particular interest in D.C....yeah, a forgotten deity awakening from an eon-long slumber explains a lot of shit. Hell, if I recall, it did wake up before the bombs fell--and a corrupting, madness-inducing presence in the middle of the Capitol would explain a lot about America's actions during the Resource War

[Whiskey Rebellion]

1. I... uh... well... Oh, I know! It is literally magic! You know those Virulent Underchambers? Well, that pillar thing is an old god, and if you look at it, you'll see it is, in fact, green. What do you see if you sneak while approaching it? Ghouls emerging from nowhere. What are ghouls made by? Radiation.

The pallid green influence spreading all over the city, an utter lack of plant life, 90% of all people are raving psychopathic Raiders, some places are outright toxic to be in....combine that with the other weird shit like the people that think they're vampires, the aliens' particular interest in D.C....yeah, a forgotten deity awakening from an eon-long slumber explains a lot of shit. Hell, if I recall, it did wake up before the bombs fell--and a corrupting, madness-inducing presence in the middle of the Capitol would explain a lot about America's actions during the Resource War

If the final boss of Fallout 4 isn't Cthulhu's less-handsome cousin, there will be violence.

[Frost]

Naturally, the main conflict is between Post-Apocalyptic Lenin and Queen Victoria.

Actually, that sounds pretty fucking awesome. Greatcoat-wearing, AK-brandishing Neo-Bolshevik hordes against smartly-dressed, battle-rifle-wielding regimented imperialists. The cowboy/gangster themes were nice, but now it's Native Americans and Labor Unions. 

I just home that some of the gameplay refinements that have been made (particularly in Skyrim) make it into the game, such as the smoother combat, dual-wielding, a more in-depth improvement/modding (and even limited crafting) system. It'd also be nice to, for instance, be able to piece together armors (or at least mix and match the parts) rather than just having whole "outifts" to wear.

[Whiskey Rebellion]

Naturally, the main conflict is between Post-Apocalyptic Lenin and Queen Victoria.

Actually, that sounds pretty fucking awesome. Greatcoat-wearing, AK-brandishing Neo-Bolshevik hordes against smartly-dressed, battle-rifle-wielding regimented imperialists. The cowboy/gangster themes were nice, but now it's Native Americans and Labor Unions. 

I just home that some of the gameplay refinements that have been made (particularly in Skyrim) make it into the game, such as the smoother combat, dual-wielding, a more in-depth improvement/modding (and even limited crafting) system. It'd also be nice to, for instance, be able to piece together armors (or at least mix and match the parts) rather than just having whole "outifts" to wear.

I'd like to be able to just pick up some random garbage, add some duct tape, and put it on.

Take some of those pointless empty cans of beans, smash them, and make some gauntlets. Or those cars scattered everywhere, I bet they have some nice parts. Maybe let us take a chunk of concrete out of a wall and use it as a shitty weapon.

And then there's the weapon degradation. Am I the only one that thinks that was way to lenient? I've almost never had a weapon break.

[Frost]

Lenient? That was outrageous.

A weapon maintenance stat? You have to clean your firearms/sharpen your blades/ ect every so often to keep them functional? Fantastic. A weapon breaking beyond usability after a handful of strikes or a few hundred rounds is absurd. A firearm doing less damage because it is in poor condition? Even more absurd.

The hilariously fragile Chinese Assault Rifle was built on the legendarily near-indestructible AKM. The Combat Shotgun is a rough, rechambered PPSH-41--also famed for its toughness. Then you get into the issue that concrete stuck to a metal bar is liable to rapidly break....

Yeah. Kinda ridiculous. 

Also, I want to be able to pick my goddamn throwing weapons back up. It's really not that hard.

[Epsilon]

Play the JSawyer mod. You can turn those worthless bent tin cans into nice and straight tin cans! Endless possibilities!

But yes, I'd love to see some more practical applications for the junk that can be found in the wasteland. New Vegas greatly improved this over Fallout 3 by incorporating many new crafting recipes, but there are still a lot of miscellaneous items that serve no purpose. Perhaps we could use them to make homemade weapons like the Cryolator?

As for weapon degradation, I think New Vegas got it right. They made weapons more durable because it never should have been so much about weapons breaking outright as it was having them lose their damage potential as they get used (Good for gameplay purposes, I think). Plus it also feels somewhat more realistic than Fallout 3 where a sniper rifle can only fire 83 times before it breaks. I mean, really? The addition of a maintenance bar for both weapons and armor was also a great touch. Perhaps they could incorporate a recipe for a maintenance kit that can restore weapons still within this bar?

[Frost]

It makes sense that a dull blade is going to hurt less, or that a gun is less accurate and reliable as it gets gunked up by carbon and dirt. A dirty, damaged weapon firing the same rounds for less damage? A dented club not hitting as hard? A bit less excusable. 

Crafting-wise, it'd be nice to, say, reinforce metal or leather armor with scrap metal, or be able to put on Kevlar (like on Powder Ganger Guard Armor or Graham's armor) over the normal clothing. Or, hell, choose whether you're going to wear that entire suit of Riot Gear or just the armor, or just the coat, or what-the-fuck ever, for various advantages and disadvantages.

I'm sure I'm alone in thinking this, but I would want a vastly shrunken inventory--perhaps even limited to what one could feasibly carry on one's person and/or in a backpack or rucksack. I find it a lot more rewarding, for instance, to master the weapons you've chosen and get skills and perks related to them--and, accordingly, specialize one's combat style around that weapon and its potential-- than just carry two dozen weapons for any situation you come across. For instance, one could carry revolvers and, through their use, unlock perks and optimizations that let them develop into a trick-shooting, quick-drawing gunslinger, or carry a full-size rifle and develop into a marksman, carry an assault rifle or carbine and turn into a versatile, adaptable fighter, ect. Carrying a melee weapon and/or another firearm in reserve is feasible and advised--carrying a sniper rifle for close range, a shotgun for medium range, a pistol for backup, three dozen grenades, a grenade machine gun, a light machine gun, and five full sets of armor? Yeah, kinda makes things less interesting.

It'd be fantastic just to develop your skills, your equipment, and your armor to make a unique-playing and unique-looking character with each playthrough, rather than inevitably ending up in Elite Riot Gear or Power Armor; sniping, minigun-ing, Super Sledging or grenade machine-gunning down everything. Gameplay progression and leveling should be a tree, not a river with many paths to one destination.

[Silver136]

You're not alone. I play like that anyway, refusing to carry the tons of crap fallout is known for and focussing on one or two weapon types.

[Epsilon]

You should play the JSawyer mod in conjunction with Project Nevada's rebalance then. Considerably reduces both carry weight and health, and you can customize just about every other aspect of character progression.

[Silver136]

You can do that anyway with mod modification menu And project Nevada. That let's you adjust all those stats just by itself.

[Frost]

I don't think skill trees that in-depth would be particularly hard to code, either, all things considered.

I'd want a compromise of, say, Skyrim and Fallout's leveling system. It's nice that the former let you gain experience by exercising skills rather than just exploring, questing, and murdering, but it's damn annoying to grind up some of the skills like Smithing, while Fallout had the "cheat" of using your already-high skills to gain experience for your low ones.

Without question, though, a perk menu like Skyrim's, rather than just a mile-long list of stuff you have available, is mandatory.

[Epsilon]

You can do that anyway with mod modification menu And project Nevada. That let's you adjust all those stats just by itself.

Aye, but JSawyer also includes a huge plethora of rebalancing tweaks and bug fixes (Chiefly, Karma) including the reintroduction of DR (On a scale that's actually reasonable, unlike Fallout 3). The full list of changes is here.

Between those two, Outside Bets, Freeside Open, and The Strip Open, it's like you're playing an entirely different game.

[Whiskey Rebellion]

Lenient? That was outrageous.

A weapon maintenance stat? You have to clean your firearms/sharpen your blades/ ect every so often to keep them functional? Fantastic. A weapon breaking beyond usability after a handful of strikes or a few hundred rounds is absurd. A firearm doing less damage because it is in poor condition? Even more absurd.

The hilariously fragile Chinese Assault Rifle was built on the legendarily near-indestructible AKM. The Combat Shotgun is a rough, rechambered PPSH-41--also famed for its toughness. Then you get into the issue that concrete stuck to a metal bar is liable to rapidly break....

Yeah. Kinda ridiculous. 

Also, I want to be able to pick my goddamn throwing weapons back up. It's really not that hard.

I'll admit that it was a bit bullshit from a "this is a thing that could happen" viewpoint. I'm just thinking that it's dumb that I end up getting a new weapon before the old one's been damaged much.

I'm sure I'm alone in thinking this ... many paths to one destination.

I actually agree, and would think it even better if there was a default backpack item that you stored your inventory in. You put it on, and it weighs as much as itself plus whatever's inside of it. The only things not in it are whatever you're wearing, your equipped weapon, and maybe a gun in its own little holster or something. The holster would actually be a good explanation for hotkeys.

Outside Bets

I'm getting this just for the Victor fight. Gods, do I love Victor. Victor is best pony.

Plus, I'd have appreciated a warning not to touch that terminal that turns all securitrons hostile. That came as a bit of a surprise.

[Whiskey Rebellion]

Fallout had the "cheat" of using your already-high skills to gain experience for your low ones.

It does? I have never seen that.

[Silver136]

Fallout had the "cheat" of using your already-high skills to gain experience for your low ones.

It does? I have never seen that.

He's referring to the level up system. In fallout you can put points into any skill you want each level, regardless of of you've used it or not. In the Elder Scrolls games you had to use a skill to rank it up, which eventually led to you leveling up.

[Epsilon]

I'm getting this just for the Victor fight. Gods, do I love Victor. Victor is best pony.

Plus, I'd have appreciated a warning not to touch that terminal that turns all securitrons hostile. That came as a bit of a surprise.

Indeed! I have no idea why half that content was cut. Most of what was restored provided legitimate improvements to the game. I can understand why Freeside and the Strip were both partitioned into separate zones (Even on a good PC, you'll still get some minor frame drops) but having them entirely open zones made those areas feel so much more alive.

Also, while it's not quite the same as what you were describing... Well shucks, you should know the drill!

He's referring to the level up system. In fallout you can put points into any skill you want each level, regardless of of you've used it or not. In the Elder Scrolls games you had to use a skill to rank it up, which eventually led to you leveling up.

Honestly, I prefer the system that Fallout uses. The way Skyrim does it makes it possible to get 100 points in every skill... something which I have a huge aversion to. Not to mention it makes certain skills obnoxiously difficult to rank up because of the grinding involved (Smithing was such a terrible offender in Skyrim). It's less realistic, yes, but it also makes the game feel like less of a chore to play.

[Whiskey Rebellion]

Fallout had the "cheat" of using your already-high skills to gain experience for your low ones.

It does? I have never seen that.

He's referring to the level up system. In fallout you can put points into any skill you want each level, regardless of of you've used it or not. In the Elder Scrolls games you had to use a skill to rank it up, which eventually led to you leveling up.

Oh, that. I remember the first time I played Skyrim. I started as a khajiit, to be a sneaky bastard. During the tutorial, I started using a two-handed axe, since sneaking in that dungeon would have been impossible. Then, at the end, I levelled up, and expecting a Fallout-style level up menu, I went to level up my sneak skill. That went fine, since the first skill is free in every tree. I then went out and adventured until level 2 struck. I went to level up, and found I didn't have enough points. I restarted with a new character.

Skyrim is the only Elder Scrolls game I've played. You may commence the flogging.

Indeed! I have no idea why half that content was cut. Most of what was restored provided legitimate improvements to the game. I can understand why Freeside and the Strip were both partitioned into separate zones (Even on a good PC, you'll still get some minor frame drops) but having them entirely open zones made those areas feel so much more alive.

Also, while it's not quite the same as what you were describing... Well shucks, you should know the drill!

1. I've never understood what goes through the minds of those guys. There was an option to side with House and not murder the BoS. And as for the Strip, has anyone else seen this mod?

2. I have backpacks like that in my game, but not that mod. I honestly have no idea which mod gave them to me.

[O. Hinds]

re Fallout 3:
…Hm. Hearing about these troubles too, maybe I ought to just give up on ever getting it to run for me.

re Somber rewriting the Legion:
And he does it again, everyone! (And for those who are new and don't know what I'm talking about, Somber has a habit of rewriting summaries and outlines of other works in ways that make them more awesome.)

This makes for a great miniquest (like BJ picking the Society leader) where you can help Caesar choose his successor: some one strong, some one fair, or some one smart?

Or "someone me", presumably. I'd expect that to be the most difficult option, given Caesar's high standards and the Courier's relatively lack of a preestablished reputation in the Legion, but some of the things a Courier can accomplish single-handedly in New Vegas, combined with high intelligence, charisma, and speech, really ought to put them in the running, I think.

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