Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

[Harmony Ltd.]

I have great graphic too. But I've spawned on other server. And to transfer to other one would cost alot.

Fucking "Pay-to-win" gameplay, amirite?

[Vinylshadow]

...

I have forgotten the Pledge of Allegiance

Got in trouble at school since I didn't recite it.

[Frost]

Continued distaste and dismissiveness towards your nation and those that represent it while remaining happy to enjoy the benefits and security that same nation provides. 

Seems about par for the course.

[Tytan]

Continued distaste and dismissiveness towards your nation and those that represent it while remaining happy to enjoy the benefits and security that same nation provides. 

Seems about par for the course.

While I'm not agreeing with him, I do think it's kinda sketchy that from kindergarten onwards they make kids pledge their allegiance to a nation they don't understand.

[Vinylshadow]

It's a country of paradoxes

[Harmony Ltd.]

I'm staying the fuck away from this discussion

... is what I should say, but why would I pass such a flamebait topic when it presents itself?


I personally don't think civilians should have to "pledge allegiance" to the flag, and even less be forced to do so; as long as they respect the laws of the Community and execute their duties toward it.

Only military and public servants should have to to such a thing. Which would basically be pledging to put the common good before one own's personnal interest, at the price of one's well-being or even life if necessary (ex: La Resistance, the struggle for civil rights, etc...)

But I'm a French eurocommie so what do I know about "honor" and "loyalty"?

[Frost]

Little known fact: the United States Army and the Army of The United States are separate entities. 

The United States Army is composed of the federal regulars initially formed to support the state militias, which eventually grew into the nation's primary land warfare force. 

The Army of The United States is literally every able-bodied man in the nation. As part of the social contract that citizenship encompasses--the same social contract that ensures a person's right to fair trial, free speech, and the basic stuff like police showing up when you call them--all that is asked in return is your taxes, your compliance with the laws of the land, and that, in times of crisis, that you are willing to stand up and defend it. 

That same line of thinking is what births the idea of a Pledge of Allegiance. That people should be able to at least pay lip service to the idea that, whether or not they agree with the particulars of its policies, they are still part of a nation that is only as strong as the unity of its people. 

But, you know, whatever. Shit-talking the government makes you edgy and cool, so fuck it.

[Harmony Ltd.]

Hmm, yes, in this case I can better see the argument behind the pledge.

I have to keep in mind that the US is a different country with a different culture and different traditions.


Still, I would be really uncomfortable if any country in Europe started doing the same thing. Brings back bad memories...

[Tytan]

I'm not shit talking. It just doesn't make sense. I barely even remember how it goes. When you teach a kid the pledge and make them chant it every weekday during the school year, every year up until high school, then the words become a completely meaningless little song you have to sing every day or else the teacher gets mad.

The pledge should mean something.

[Frost]

Oh, you're not the one I was mentioning as a shit-talker.

I agree that it should be something more than a mandatory little chant. It, really, should be something that actually provokes thought, as many other things should--reminders that there is more at work than whatever school desk you're sitting at, than whatever job you're working or whatever personal problem you're having. Of course, if more people had that sort of perspective, or that sort of ideal that there is more to the world than the tiny fraction they live in and the problems they face (not to belittle the problems that people face) then the country and the world would definitely be a generally better place. But you can't force someone to stop and think, nor can you really force someone to look at the world beyond the filter of their own issues

[Downloaded Skill]

Now I'm all for adults saying the Pledge of Allegiance. They should possess the capacity to understand the meaning of the pledge, why it's significant, and make an informed decision. However do kids possess the same capacity? I don't think they do. Talk to them about social contract, defending your country, and taxes and it just goes over their head. To pay lip service to an idea or concept you have to understand it, but with kids they can't even pay lip service. It's just saying words. It loses some of it's meaning and significance by having people who can't understand it recite it day after day.

[Guest]

@swicked
That's A) poetic, and B) quite metal. Also reminiscent of Hannibal.

...THAT is metal? I never considered myself metal.
I've barely any experience with it. Just read a bit about famous metal artists that end up offing themselves and, of course, Metalocalypse.
From that, though, I figured metal to be more depressing, violent, and fatalistic. Aggressive, masculine, and purposeless.
Plus screaming. Lots and lots of screaming.

My interests are in a much calmer and more twisted sort of horror. Less worship of death, more reimagining of life.

There's many different ways to be metal! Aggressive, masculine, and purposeless sounds like brutal death metal, or thrash; depressing, violent, and fatalistic sounds like depressive/suicidal black metal. (These are actual genres.) But relentless dehumanizing pursuit of perfection sounds like a variety of hyper-technical subgenres - Meshuggah works with this theme, for one. The album Catch-33 does stuff with it, as does the song New Millennium Cyanide Christ. Less specifically, the idea of creating inhuman or post-human sounds (you invoked this with the throat-vocal-chords thing) is of course a pretty big thing in the extreme subgenres - often, they're not trying to sound like an angry or screaming person, but something more (or less) than that. Lastly, the idea of recording someone's sounds reminded me of an actual technique used by Sunn O))) on their album Black One, wherein they locked the album's claustrophobe vocalist inside a coffin to record his lines.

Anyway, yeah, that's why it sounded metal to me!

@Universe-as-Simulation
Classic stuff. It's kind of ironic, 'cos I'm pretty sure most philosophers don't actually deal with the whole "reality is a lie" stuff anymore. Not because it's been disproved, but because it's kind of pointless to talk about. Now, if these scientists think they can find phenomenon that match the theory of a simulated universe, that'd be something to talk about. Though I'm not sure what the practical applications would really be. We talk about stuff like changing the Matrix around our will, and the Konami code, but I'm not sure what it'd really change, I suppose. It might add another level of phenomenon observable only indirectly on which physicists could speculate, but they'd be doing so without any real way to test their theories. The simulator would not have to obey any laws we have in the simulation.

@Pledge of Allegiance
Frost's line of thinking is reminiscent IIRC of classical conservatism - it says that traditions create social unity, and should therefore be promoted and protected. It's a worthy way of thinking about it, IMO, though I'm not sure I'd agree with it. My problem, other than what Harmony said, is that I'm not sure how much that pledge really means anymore. Not just because Americans as a whole are unhappy with government right now, one way or another, but because the idea of America as a nation isn't something that seems to gel very well in my head. There doesn't seem to be much that binds us together other than living under the same government, and that's really not enough. So... what exactly are we pledging to when we pledge? Loyalty to the government doesn't seem like the right answer. The flag is a stand-in for the republic, mind, but at the same time the pledge says that the republic is identified with an indivisible nation - which brings us back to the problem of nations. The pledge itself isn't enough of a shard tradition to make a nation, obviously. In some ways we eat the same foods - greasy, quick, and flavorful are how I'd identify American food, and I think that holds across the theoretical nation - and that's at least a start. Not much to base a pledge on, though: "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the cheeseburger for which it stands; two patties, indivisible (due to the cheese sticking them together), with ketchup and pickles for all." (Yes, I can remember the actual one) Yeah, no. I love 'em, but no. I dunno, maybe it's easier for an outsider looking in to identify what makes America a nation, but I don't feel like that's really enough, either - what good is a nation if the people in it can't sense it?

On the one hand, you've got almost sectarian divisions across the country; and on the other, you have the country's most powerful citizens trying to claw every advantage they can while giving as little as they can back. I dunno, there's probably a point to be made about living in a world in transition to post-nationalist. Not sure I believe that.

[Frost]

I suppose my perspective is skewed a bit. When I think of someone causing problems, I think "that Officer's a dumbass, that NCO's an asshole and is shamming, and that Joe is a rock-eating retard." I don't really see as much of the manipulators at the top, scumbags at the bottom, or malcontents in the middle.

[Kattlarv]

Exactly what changes are you making.

Spoiler:

And man you guys trailed off again xP
And why am I up this late editing? I got work supplement in the morning...

@Tytan: (Syndromes) I think my diagnostic is Tourettes with an autism like state and ADHD.

On a somewhat unrelated side note: A friend of mine claimed that those that (obsessively) like guys with tits are in a sort of cult. At first, I snickered at this claim, but considering how almost all of them show the same arrogant behaviour, the same mentality, the same patterns and neglect towards certain things, it does seem like a frighteningly large majority of them (or at least their loud part) fits the bill. They're all (of those that are) this sort of bigoted hive mind. It's both interesting, peculiar and unsettling heh. Like a KKK for porn xD Granted, there's other radicals, but these ones stick out much more than others :P

@Swicked: (LRM) Ah, I don't recall much of that blog now... all I recall was that I think there was two that had a very similar style... and that one or both of them were incredibly half-assed and one sided in what work they did.

Side note wise, is it chill if I create a new topic, and post a link here when I got the first volume revised? Or where should I shuck that whole ordeal?

[Tytan]

@Katt, I was being nice. Aspergers is an acute form of autism.

I do however like the idea that the 'rival' female lead has trouble with spouting random obscenities.

[Tytan]

Should we make this a thing?

[Stringtheory]

Should we make this a thing?

The separate anime thread, or Katt's rewriting a new thread? I say that the anime stuff stays in this thread since we'll forget about the other thread and Katt can make her own thread if she wants. Unless I'm completely off the mark in understanding what you're saying and none of that was what you were refering to.

[Scienza]

On a somewhat unrelated side note: A friend of mine claimed that those that (obsessively) like guys with tits are in a sort of cult. At first, I snickered at this claim, but considering how almost all of them show the same arrogant behaviour, the same mentality, the same patterns and neglect towards certain things, it does seem like a frighteningly large majority of them (or at least their loud part) fits the bill. They're all (of those that are) this sort of bigoted hive mind. It's both interesting, peculiar and unsettling heh. Like a KKK for porn xD Granted, there's other radicals, but these ones stick out much more than others :P

Um... What?

Katt, it's porn. It either gets you hot or it doesn't, and if it doesn't, you click the little "X" in the upper right corner of your screen and you go and find you something that does. You don't have to try and make a grand social statement out of it (especially since I'm starting to suspect that your experience with this is solely within your head), just say "I will not masturbate to this" and move on. For someone that spends an inordinate amount of time complaining that your fetishes are ignored by society (or more specifically, by its porn), you seem to have an awfully huge problem with the idea that other people might have sexual preferences that are different than yours.

I know we've all had our turns ranting at you about this, but seriously, how are you not getting that hyperbole only weakens your argument? It's like if I went to a restaurant and ordered a sandwich. I ask the waiter whether I could have a chicken soup instead of the complimentary salad, which is a reasonable request given that both are served by the establishment, only to have the waiter explain that the restaurant's policy is to maintain a fixed menu without complicated orders. I then punch the waiter in the balls, flip over the table, and begin shouting a three-page treatise on why not getting my choice in free side dishes is literally worse than seeing a hypothetical lovechild of Hitler and Cruella De Vil rape a puppy right in front of me. You see, not only does the comparison make my argument look ridiculous, it is in itself incredibly offensive, because I am equating my own relatively minor suffering to the raping of a puppy by Cruella Hitler. Herms probably came about because some guy or gal decided that since they liked both the D and the V, they were going to try putting both on a single individual (since, y'know, they can draw anything) in the style of the mythological figure Hermaphroditos, who, I might add, was raped by the nymph Salmacis and then forced to fuse with her. Or intersex folks. Or non-surgical MtF transgender women. The artist's desire to draw what gets them hot is not in any way comparable to over a century of unpunished hatred and violence that resulted in hundreds, if not thousands, of deaths.

Hell, Katt, if you really want artists to draw non-herm women, just commission a picture without dicks. Because chances are, they're putting this stuff out for free because they're making it for their own enjoyment. You're basically never going to win an argument of "STOP LIKING WHAT I DON'T LIKE," so why not just find something that you can get off to and be done with it?

[Stringtheory]

*snip*

Um... What?
*snip*

Thank you, Scienza, for telling Katt what I've been wanting to tell her for a while, but hadn't figured out the right argument/wording.
On a completely different note, I now want someone to draw Cruella Hitler just to see what they'd look like.

[Guest]

I don't think I understand. The pledge isn't a verbal contract, you're not obligated to die for your country because you uttered it in school. I had a friend who was a Jehova's witness and he never did the pledge, he was not forced to do it.

The pledge I think you guys are giving more weight than it actually has. Unless that's your argument.

[Tytan]

I don't think I understand. The pledge isn't a verbal contract, you're not obligated to die for your country because you uttered it in school. I had a friend who was a Jehova's witness and he never did the pledge, he was not forced to do it.

The pledge I think you guys are giving more weight than it actually has. Unless that's your argument.

Maybe, but you are required by law to register for selective service [aka, The Draft] or face fines as high as $25,000 and five years in jail if I'm not mistaken.

[Tytan]

@String, I meant the anime thing, so you had it right.

[Guest]

I don't think I understand. The pledge isn't a verbal contract, you're not obligated to die for your country because you uttered it in school. I had a friend who was a Jehova's witness and he never did the pledge, he was not forced to do it.

The pledge I think you guys are giving more weight than it actually has. Unless that's your argument.

Maybe, but you are required by law to register for selective service [aka, The Draft] or face fines as high as $25,000 and five years in jail if I'm not mistaken.

Yup, I had to go to the post office and have that handled when I turned 18. But that and the pledge are not the same thing. They aren't related, I mean I don't think my friend was exempt because he never did the pledge.

[Frost]

Should we make this a thing?

I'm game. I'd have to postpone my participation until we're back from the field, but I'd be all for it.

[Tytan]

The question is though, what do we do with it?

Edit to clarify: Should we do this as a straight up RP thing? Or as some sort of group project? Ideas?

[Tytan]

Unrelated: I think Plague of gripes is my new favorite philosopher:

[Guest]

I'd be game for whatever. Personally would probably want to participate in a sort of drop-in, drop-out basis.

[Stringtheory]

The question is though, what do we do with it?

Edit to clarify: Should we do this as a straight up RP thing? Or as some sort of group project? Ideas?

Never really done RPing, but I'd be up for giving it a try. Though it would probably work best as a drop-in-drop out group project.

[Ironmonger]

The question is though, what do we do with it?

Edit to clarify: Should we do this as a straight up RP thing? Or as some sort of group project? Ideas?

Making this an RP would be interesting. I'm in.

[Katarn]

I'll give it a try.

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