Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

[O. Hinds]

I have the Cloud bomb as probably (there's a slight chance that this was done by the closest equivalents my headcanon has to the Starkatteri) being smuggled by an Equestrian sympathizer who'd obtained it with great difficulty and was planning to defect with their family, offering the bomb as a gift.  Then the shooting started, and either the bomb was set off by accident or the would-be defector thought "Hm, the people I was trying to betray my homeland for have just shot and killed my defenseless spouse and children.  If only I had not believed pony lies…  Well, there's still one weapon I have!" or something to that effect.

As I understand it, the latter is the case. A mist-cloaked Zebra operative was escorting his family in the convoy. When they were killed by Littlehorn's automated defenses, he used his skills to infiltrate the academy and set off something like a Pink Cloud grenade or satchel charge in revenge. (I assume the gas bomb itself was a preexisting Zebra weapon used to wipe out monster hives.) He was at that point acting as a rogue agent, but the government seems to have condoned the attack and taken the actions of the automated defenses as deliberate on the ponies' part.

I don't think that they'd have condoned the attack; I'd expect them to be very offended by Equestria blaming them for it.

Why did the Zebra Government attack Littlehorn?

That's my point -- they didn't. The attack on Littlehorn was an immediate response by a zebra agent who was already with his family in the convoy. The government was not involved.

“It was too late. The zebra convoy had assassins wearing zebra stealth cloaks…”
“They had one.” Xenith corrected. “A father whose family was killed in your school’s surprise attack.”
“They only needed one,” SteelHooves growled.

Oh, so I actually got this part from FoE.
...
Why don't views of the events at Littlehorn like mine seem to be more common, then?

Maybe the Legate is the one who made the attack.
Seems to me he wanted the war to escalate.

If the legate then is the same person as the legate now(Amadi? For some reason I can't remember his actual name), then maybe. But I think the legate was somebody else at the time. Amadi was working with the Tokomare.

Maybe the Legate is the one who made the attack.
Seems to me he wanted the war to escalate.

If the legate then is the same person as the legate now(Amadi? For some reason I can't remember his actual name), then maybe. But I think the legate was somebody else at the time. Amadi was working with the Tokomare.

The position of "Legate" didn't exist at that time. That's the name of the leader of the hoofington Remnant.
I don't think Amadi was working on the Tokomare until Horse became the director.
I'm not sure we know anything at all about what he was doing during the rest of the war.

I have there being multiple legates; it's a military rank, after all, and not the highest one (Legate Masozi, for example, is a significant figure in my headcanon).  I'm also careful not to call Vitiosus (or Amadi, or whatever) by that title, as I consider him to have stolen it and be unworthy of it.

[Guest]

@Hinds (Only needed one)
There are multiple ways to read that, though. After all, who better to send on a suicide run than someone with nothing to lose and a whole lot of hate; someone who could be labeled a rogue agent afterwards? Equestria did it.

Slight Spoilers for Jingo:

[O. Hinds]

(Only needed one)

?

There are multiple ways to read that, though. After all, who better to send on a suicide run than someone with nothing to lose and a whole lot of hate; someone who could be labeled a rogue agent afterwards? Equestria did it.

Slight Spoilers for Jingo:

My memory agrees with you regarding the book. Indeed, the zebra who set off the bomb, assuming it wasn't a total accident (which is another possibility) could have been a plausibly deniable agent. A very plausibly deniable agent, as far as I can see, because I still can't figure out why the zebras would see causing the events at Littlehorn as a good idea.

[O. Hinds]

I'm not denying that the zebra government could have had method and opportunity; they probably could have carried out the events at Littlehorn relatively easily.  I'm saying both that they don't seem to have had motive and that other possibilities without such holes exist.

[Vinylshadow]

As I said, maybe they were sending a message

Give in to our demands or we'll only get worse

And why didn't Equestria just give them Gems?

Oh wait, Season 3 wasn't out when FoE was written, so the Crystal Caverns weren't canon

Still, there were the Diamond Dog mines...

[Icy Shake]

Why not? Because Equestria's diplomatic corps was nonexistent or incompetent; Celestia (also maybe Luna) forgot how zebra culture and government worked and the character of the new Caesar; and nobody else with high level access knew literally anything (yes, I'm being serious when I say that) about either until Goldenblood happened to be in court that one time (this incidentally suggests that the zebras may have had no diplomatic corps in Equestria, and cross nation travel by the elite was uncommon for both, with Goldenblood's experience being uncommon or unique), after Celestia and Luna had effectively come to the conclusion it was too late to do anything diplomatically anyway.

It could also be because of specific demands on one side or the other, for instance if the zebras were requiring long-term contracts or especially gems-in-advance payment, the latter of which frankly doesn't work very well when they're already impounding goods that were paid for in advance. Basically, if the zebras couldn't agree to pay-as-you-go, the ponies couldn't agree to cash in advance without making themselves vulnerable to repeated ransom demands—that is to say, exactly what was happening at the time. Of course, even paygo doesn't get around that; it just limits the losses. Alternatively, it could be that Equestria is demanding a large enough initial shipment that they will have considerable stockpiles, enough to be able to weather an embargo much longer next time. And, of course, they would be right to do so, since the zebra government has shown itself to be untrustworthy extortionists. This might not be acceptable to the zebra government, since it may want to continue to use illegal confiscations to extort concessions in the future, or just because a large initial shipment doesn't look like enough of a win.

[SilentCarto]

@Hinds (Only needed one)
There are multiple ways to read that, though. After all, who better to send on a suicide run than someone with nothing to lose and a whole lot of hate; someone who could be labeled a rogue agent afterwards? Equestria did it.

That doesn't make sense. If there were days between the convoy and the gas bomb, there would be plenty of time for cooler heads to prevail. Equestria would say, "Shit, sorry, sorry! That was a total accident. Look, we have those responsible in custody. How can we make sure this doesn't happen again?" Remember, at this point the war was still quite civilized, as wars go -- quarter asked and given, rules of war respected, that sort of thing. If they deliberately gassed Littlehorn, understanding what happened and cognizant that it's a school full of children, then the zebras are precisely the monsters that Image made them appear to be.

The revenge of a grieving father in the heat of the moment is the only way this makes sense. Then both sides are shocked at the other's barbarism and each has a list of innocent victims to wave around.

[O. Hinds]

And Chapter 67 is delivered!

[WavemasterRyx]

Got my copy downloaded, and I'll be looking forward to reading it tonight. I'm expecting Goldenblood to be an unhelpful, cryptic jerk... so we'll have to see what happens.

*hugs Somber and Hinds very gently* Thank you both, and the other editors for your all your hard work.

[O. Hinds]

@WavemasterRyx:
You're quite welcome. A lot of things get addressed in this chapter...

[Guest]

@Hinds (Only needed one)
There are multiple ways to read that, though. After all, who better to send on a suicide run than someone with nothing to lose and a whole lot of hate; someone who could be labeled a rogue agent afterwards? Equestria did it.

That doesn't make sense. If there were days between the convoy and the gas bomb, there would be plenty of time for cooler heads to prevail. Equestria would say, "Shit, sorry, sorry! That was a total accident. Look, we have those responsible in custody. How can we make sure this doesn't happen again?" Remember, at this point the war was still quite civilized, as wars go -- quarter asked and given, rules of war respected, that sort of thing. If they deliberately gassed Littlehorn, understanding what happened and cognizant that it's a school full of children, then the zebras are precisely the monsters that Image made them appear to be.

The revenge of a grieving father in the heat of the moment is the only way this makes sense. Then both sides are shocked at the other's barbarism and each has a list of innocent victims to wave around.

No matter how civilized a war is, the point of it is still to win, and there will always be people who will try to take advantage. (Not to mention that we know there were people within the zebra government absolutely pushing for escalation, whose entire agenda was escalation) For instance: Equestria is apologizing, saying they're horrified by the misfire that resulted in the tragic deaths of the refugee convoy. A zebra General in high-level meeting with his fellows puts down the report on Equestria's mea culpa, muttering about how the ponies' incompetence at war is now costing the zebras worse than the ponies. Someone says, "Yes. They are inexperienced at war. They don't know it. If they were to see just one bit of what war can be, they would sue for peace at once." And someone else says, "Blood demands blood. Isn't that the old way? When the scales are evened, then we can put an end to this." And the General frowns, and says, "You cannot retaliate in kind to an accident, however horrific it might have been. It just isn't done." And the first someone says, "Accidents of our own can happen, too. Perhaps someone forgot to revoke a certain zebra's security clearance until they had already gone off reservation, for instance. With a talisman. Accidents happen in war. When the ponies see that, they will make peace." And the General says, "The Caesar would have our heads for even thinking about this." And the second someone says, "Well, we all know about him. He got us into this war in the first place with his posturing, all because, deep down, he is weak. Who here would tell him?"

And maybe they really believed that it would bring the ponies to their senses, show them that the cost of war was too high for them to imagine, much less be willing to pay. Or, maybe it was dem Star Zebras, pushing people along towards the apocalypse. But there have been many, many times when cooler heads did not prevail throughout human history, or when cooler heads decided to seize upon the semblance of an attack to further their own designs and ended up starting World War Uno (or what have you).

Not saying it happened this way, just saying that it could have done.

[Silver136]

I think you might have left one of the auditing recmendatiins in there.

"She's repeating herself here. How about "Her words echoed in my head, but again everything came down to that one question."


This was when BJ was talking in the shadow realm.

[Exodus Hero]

And Chapter 67 is delivered!

Fk yes.

[Guest]

24 hour courtesy spoiler:

Thanks for the chapter it was entertaining.

[WavemasterRyx]

Alright well... change of plans... I'm not going to be able to read the chapter until tomorrow night... It's going to be a long night/day waiting, but there's no way I can read a 50 page chapter fast enough to get to sleep at a reasonable time... on top of the other trouble I'm in on tumblr...

I do hope everyone else enjoys it.

*hugs Somber and Hinds a little, one more time*

Yay for addressing things.

[Exodus Hero]

The commentary at the end, though.

[Dutcher]

Coming back from a fucking five hours final and

[Guest]

Spoiler:

[Dutcher]

WHAT:

[Evilgidgit]

Chaptet 67 Spoilers:

[Vinylshadow]

Sorry if I'm being stupid, but where would I go to get chapter 67?

[O. Hinds]

I think you might have left one of the auditing recmendatiins in there.

"She's repeating herself here. How about "Her words echoed in my head, but again everything came down to that one question."


This was when BJ was talking in the shadow realm.

…
What the…
GDOCS!!!
Yeah, sorry about that. That shouldn't even have been in the chapter to begin with. Very sorry.

Alright well... change of plans... I'm not going to be able to read the chapter until tomorrow night... It's going to be a long night/day waiting, but there's no way I can read a 50 page chapter fast enough to get to sleep at a reasonable time... on top of the other trouble I'm in on tumblr...

I do hope everyone else enjoys it.

*hugs Somber and Hinds a little, one more time*

Yay for addressing things.

Sorry, Ryx (and I seem to recall now that you did indeed give me permission to call you that; if I am wrong, I apologize). Good luck.

The commentary at the end, though.

Yes, it was rather… um… yes. :D

Sorry if I'm being stupid, but where would I go to get chapter 67?

There are a variety of ways, but the simplest would probably be to use the hub page link in my signature.

[Vinylshadow]

I'll peruse it tonight and offer my bits tomorrow, along with whatever interesting tidbits I decide to copy to Notepad for future reference 

I usually do it with passages I find hilarious

I forgot which chapter this was in:

[MSCA]

Maybe the Legate is the one who made the attack.
Seems to me he wanted the war to escalate.

Spoiler:

[Dutcher]

Well tomorrow is E3.
Lets sacrifice a goat and hope for Fallout 4

[Guest]

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

[Icy Shake]

I like the timing! Sure, too late for me to want to start it the night it was posted, but at least this way I got to it the next morning . . . okay, a little after noon. Still, beats trying to fit it all into the time after work on a Monday. So, what have we here?

Chapter Sixty Seven Running Thoughts:

Chapter Sixty Seven Overall Thoughts:

Chapter Sixty Seven Editing:

Other Editing:

As ever, many thanks to Somber and the editing crew for showing me a good time. On the time between updates, don't worry: you're a gem (collection of gems). This chapter, for example, you only were working at a rate of 260,000 words per year. For shame.   More seriously, I hope you're able to find work before too long, and that it will actually cover your bills. If Bronycon works out, so much the better, long as it's not a repeat of the Las Pegasus fiasco. Most important, I guess, is that you stay motivated! 

[Icy Shake]

24 hour courtesy spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

[O. Hinds]

I like the timing! Sure, too late for me to want to start it the night it was posted, but at least this way I got to it the next morning . . . okay, a little after noon. Still, beats trying to fit it all into the time after work on a Monday. So, what have we here?

Chapter Sixty Seven Running Thoughts:

Chapter Sixty Seven Overall Thoughts:

Chapter Sixty Seven Editing:

Other Editing:

As ever, many thanks to Somber and the editing crew for showing me a good time. On the time between updates, don't worry: you're a gem (collection of gems). This chapter, for example, you only were working at a rate of 260,000 words per year. For shame.   More seriously, I hope you're able to find work before too long, and that it will actually cover your bills. If Bronycon works out, so much the better, long as it's not a repeat of the Las Pegasus fiasco. Most important, I guess, is that you stay motivated! 

Ah, thank you.

She's repeating herself here. How about

only one space after the period

…Ah, you seem to have kind of missed the bigger issue there, namely that that bit was part of a comment that got into the chapter text somehow.  :D
Someone else spotted it almost right away, but apparently you took your copy before that.

There were two of them . . .

The second one ought to be "Eponstar" too, I think, actually.

That's a first. I actually saw the changes happen here. And a good thing, too, because I was really confused by what looked a lot like editor's comments in the text itself.

Ah, so you did see that.  Just so you know, you must have moved on before I finished; the current version is "Her words echoed in my head, but again everything came down to that one question: Why?  Why did Goldenblood" etc.

…Are you shipping Tenebra and Stygius?  :D

Umm . . . becoming the head of security?

Pah, the rules aren't that complicated, are they?

Hinds even quoted the same stuff you did, in fact.

No, that was Heartshine, I believe.  She is the team medicalpony.
But yes.  Blackjack saying that she knows enough to do that is completely accurate, because she really doesn't know much about this.  :)

[Icy Shake]

@Hinds, re Tenebra and Stygius: Not exactly, since he's clearly not into her. But after this chapter I just can't not see the jealousy and envy in the other direction anymore! Even there, it might not be entirely shippy, but more of a generalized attention thing.

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Now that you mention it, I think you're right.

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