Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

[Evilgidgit]

   

That ending was fantastic!

[Moodyman90]

Got a thought combined with a theory wrapped up in rambles.

Spoiler:

Or I'm completely wrong about some, if not all, of this and I'm just talking nonsense.

[Exodus Hero]

Got a thought combined with a theory wrapped up in rambles.

Spoiler:

Or I'm completely wrong about some, if not all, of this and I'm just talking nonsense.

Spoiler:

[Scienza]

Got a thought combined with a theory wrapped up in rambles.

Spoiler:

Or I'm completely wrong about some, if not all, of this and I'm just talking nonsense.

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

[Guest]

Okay, finally finished the chapter! Gonna have to be short thoughts again, because I've got work to do, now more than ever. Here goes!

Thoughts:

[O. Hinds]

also felt like the zebra sexy thoughts were perhaps a bit out of place unless they've got some weird origin to them - I know it's Blackjack, but she's not in heat at the mo' and her head really seemed to be in a different place right then; it just stuck out to me

Aye, there was some debate about those in the editing chat.

[Dekshuduph]

Chapter 64 Edits:

This chapter felt short.  I feel like, in the very least, we should've gotten more about the Glass mote, as that was pretty interesting.  I had before wondered what happened to Discord, and some people were trying to understand Boo's sentience, so glad we got an answer to both.  On the other hand, Discord couldn't have been controlling her before he was released, so it still begs the question of how she was before Blackjack met her.

Here's a random thought: if Blackjack can't find a way to carry her baby through to the end, will Angel kill it while Blackjack's asleep?  That would lead to some pretty interesting character development for Rampage (who'd be blamed by Blackjack for something she didn't do).

Spoiler:

[O. Hinds]

Chapter 64 Edits:

This chapter felt short.  I feel like, in the very least, we should've gotten more about the Glass mote, as that was pretty interesting.  I had before wondered what happened to Discord, and some people were trying to understand Boo's sentience, so glad we got an answer to both.  On the other hand, Discord couldn't have been controlling her before he was released, so it still begs the question of how she was before Blackjack met her.

Here's a random thought: if Blackjack can't find a way to carry her baby through to the end, will Angel kill it while Blackjack's asleep?  That would lead to some pretty interesting character development for Rampage (who'd be blamed by Blackjack for something she didn't do).

Spoiler:

Ah, thank you.

As many as...?

As many as the number of days.

What does 'mem-' mean here?

Ah, it means the wrong sort of dash, I think. Sorry.

Remove the first 'or', but if not then I'll stop pointing out if it looks like it should be a list.

This bit is conversational.

Add 'a' before 'child', and maybe 'pregnant' before 'with'.

…Why?

Wow, I hadn't even noticed, but that actually worked very well!

Thanks! :)

[Dekshuduph]

Add 'a' before 'child', and maybe 'pregnant' before 'with'.

…Why?

It's a common noun so an article should be used to introduce it. As for the latter, it was just specifics, but probably isn't needed.

[Icy Shake]

Add 'a' before 'child', and maybe 'pregnant' before 'with'.

…Why?

It's a common noun so an article should be used to introduce it.  As for the latter, it was just specifics, but probably isn't needed.

"With child" is an idiom that means "pregnant."

[O. Hinds]

Add 'a' before 'child', and maybe 'pregnant' before 'with'.

…Why?

It's a common noun so an article should be used to introduce it.  As for the latter, it was just specifics, but probably isn't needed.

"With child" is an idiom that means "pregnant."

Ah, yes. Sorry for not clarifying that myself, Dekshuduph.

[SilentCarto]

Sorry I'm a full week late with this. Last weekend, I'd just started Hard Reset, and I kinda had to finish the trilogy before I could break off a chunk of time to sit down and read this (since, as previously mentioned, I hate having to stop in the middle of a PH chapter.)

Chapter 64 Commentary:

Editing:

[SilentCarto]

The moon is made of the souls of millions of creatures who lived before Equestria's time? I didn't see that one coming.

The Star Dream way back in 34 said as much.

From the great impact a ring of stone formed, the pieces drawing together to collect the tiny specks of life.

BJ presumably gets that weird collective perspective of ancient Equestria because of the myriad souls contained in the piece of moonstone she ate. This vision, in fact, implies that everything was already dead when the Eater crashed. Either its approach focused the Enervation that was already raining down on Equestria, or it arrived just behind the wavefront to collect the bounty of fresh souls.

Luna's banishment. The creatures comforted her. "The scream" is the lingering effects of that cosmic megaspell... maybe it's linked to starmetal? Nightmare Moon's armor was starmetal.

Absolutely. Starmetal resonates with Enervation -- the spell's direct effects are too small to notice beyond the range of the EoS's influence. It seems that it less strongly affects those who have 'attuned' to it, which means somehow warping one's own soul to match the Eater's, and presumably becoming a slave to its will in the process.

This is definitely interesting. Some have a muted "song". Could "song" be how this being sees a soul? It makes sense to think of Goldenblood having a scarred soul.

That's definitely how I interpreted it. Or rather, the "song" can be thought of as purity of soul. It indicates how attuned they are to the power of Harmony, with corruption gradually muting the song in their heart. But even the greediest, most dishonest, disloyal, unkind, and humorless pony would be merely "silent" in that regard -- it's only when they subordinate themselves to the Eater's will and start actively working against Harmony that they take the scream of Enervation into themselves. That's how I read it, anyway.

I think Horizons is meant to send a rocket filled with starmetal to the moon. To blow up the moon (And as a result, Equestria).

I sorta don't think so. Sending a rocket to the moon just seems too... well... simple, I guess. And prone to failure, 200+ years later without maintenance. Ultimately, the starmetal/moonstone reaction is a losing bet for the Eater of Souls -- contact with even a tiny chip of moonstone melts away a relatively vast amount of starmetal. Trottenheimer stated that the optimal reaction ratio was 1000 parts starmetal to 1 part moonstone. Goldie then asked about the effect of a reaction involving 10,000 metric tons of moonstone at optimal ratio, which means 10 million metric tons of starmetal -- a literal mountain. I can't even imagine the rocket you'd need to deliver that, nor anything short of the Eater itself supplying that much. "Just what it wanted" surely wouldn't involve its own suicide.

Oh.
Oh dear.
But we just saw a device built by Goldie from one kilogram of starmetal, which processed moonstone to increase its own mass several hundredfold. If the entire rocket were made of starmetal, that would make it practically indestructable, and if it soft-landed and proceeded to process moonstone to increase its own mass after arrival...

Shit.

Guys, I think I just figured out Project Horizons.

[Meleagridis]

If souls can be bent to form new starmetal, do you think that might be the aim of spreading enervation? Would it send these souls somewhere where they could be processed?

Oh, and chapter things:

[Icy Shake]

The thread lives!

Sorry I'm a full week late with this. Last weekend, I'd just started Hard Reset, and I kinda had to finish the trilogy before I could break off a chunk of time to sit down and read this (since, as previously mentioned, I hate having to stop in the middle of a PH chapter.)

Yeah, I know how that feels. Re Hard Reset, are you considering reading Hard Reset 2: Reset Harder? I've been enjoying it, and I never even read Eakin's trilogy (although I might, if time permits).

“An inch,” Trottenheimer said quietly.  “It is small and it is fragile, but it is the only thing worth having.”

Huh... I don't quite get it. The inch that makes the difference between standing on a cliff and falling off of it?

That's basically the way I thought of it. Basically, I think of the cheesemonger from FoE's philosophy, but with someone who seems like less of an insincere, manipulative jackass.

Chapter Seven Running Thoughts:

Chapter Seven Overall Thoughts:

Chapter Seven Editing:

[SilentCarto]

Why is Rampage the least favorite of my characters, you might ask? Well:
You said it, Obito! And those that betray their companions? They're even worse! Take it away, Itachi!

I don't know about anyone else, but I get a 403: Forbidden error on these images. Maybe you ought to copy them to a public server like ServImg first.

nor the fact that Goldie let slip that there is a second weapon that would hopefully destroy the Eater without having the rather nasty side effect of destroying the world along with it.

Oh, we already know about the second weapon. It's Folly.

Entry 3> G.B. [Goldenblood] came to me last night.  I’ve no idea how he bypasses security.  I’ve never seen him so… disturbed.  For once, [Goldenblood] appeared quite at a loss, and he was truly desperate for my expertise.  After [Project Horizons] and [Project Starfall], haven’t I done enough?  No.  For him, for his faith in believing in me when none would… I owe him this.  He swore it would never be used on [Princess Luna] or [Princess Celestia].  He said the most peculiar thing: ‘There are greater threats.’  I am uneasy, but I will do this for him. [...]

Entry 5> [Goldenblood] has provided the metal, flux, and cores necessary.  As I am working for a firearms manufacturer, I craft the devices in the shape of bullets and guns.  It is true enough to their function.  I warned [Goldenblood] of the risks, but he was quite dismissive.

My money's on the Maiden being Cognitum, the Eater of Souls, or a fusion of the two.

Let's review the prophecies, per Xanthe:
The Star Maiden. The one who brings death, chaos and destruction. The reaper of the lost land. The Star Maiden is she who is born from the cursed soil of the damned city.  She will be flesh and steel, touched by the stars and chosen as their champion. Where she travels, chaos and strife will follow. It is she that shall bear evil from the ground, usher in the final days of the world, snuff out the sun forever and call down the moon. She shall summon storms, unleash plague, command unholy fire, destroy all in her path and all who follow in her wake.  Female shall desire female, male shall desire male, and unholy coupling between the species will commence where she travels. With [her] left hoof [she] will bring down the fires of the sun, and with [her] right [she] will call down the moon!

"Chaos and strife" is kind of a wash; it certainly causes chaos and strife when the oppressed rise up against their oppressors, but it's not necessarily a bad thing. This really just means she shakes up the status quo.

The "plagues and storms" bit gets into the part that I'm not sure is a real prophecy at all. Vitiosus has apparently had plenty of time to adjust the prophecy to his needs, and all the predictions of doom and gloom and immorality seem calculated to keep the zebras firmly on his side, no matter what.

In particular, the part about homosexuality and interracial relationships smells like a scare tactic targeted at a group that is already homophobic and xenophobic. Bluebelle's response seems more indicative of the typical pony reaction: "You say that like it's a bad thing." I wonder if that part were only subtly warped, and its original text was couched more in terms of different groups coming together in harmony.

The "left hoof, right hoof" part seems to go back to serious prophecy that I could see BJ fulfilling. But we know something Xanthe doesn't -- the stars aren't evil. So I have to question anything that suggests that being the stars' chosen would automatically make her a monster. I have two ideas on that.

First, assuming the Star Maiden is evil: I have this sneaking suspicion that the True Maiden will be Cognitum playing Grand Theft Me with BJ's body. She's already indicated that BJ is being reserved for some 'great destiny', which is presumably to be the Body of the Goddess. And since Cog is Luna's mind and BJ has become a worthy vessel with her alicorn upgrades, I'm thinking there's only one Maiden of the Stars, and it's Nightmare Moon.

This could be the meaning of "bear evil from the ground" -- quite literally, if Cognitum hitches a ride in BJ's head. Storms, plagues, and unholy fire have been involved in BJ's quest, but she doesn't exactly throw them at anyone. Kind of the opposite, really. Well, okay, she's been involved in more than one balefire detonation, but none of them were deliberate on her part. And I'm not sure Cogs could be said to unleash plagues and summon storms, unless you count her indirect involvement with Lighthooves. Still, if you're mixing up prophecies about BJ herself and Cogs-driving-BJ, it might work out to some kind of accuracy. In this case, Vitiosus could be well-intentioned and merely deluded and unaware of the shades of gray involved. I did notice that in this chapter, he didn't say BJ wasn't the Star Maiden yet. He simply said he knew it wasn't her.

Second, assuming the Star Maiden is good: This pretty much requires Vitiosus to be explicitly evil, in league with the Eater, and deliberately lying to his people. Which isn't at all unbelievable; it seems like Sekashi must have stumbled onto information to that effect in order to incite Vitiosus' wrath, and something in Hoofington is definitely creating new cyborg zebras. If the Brood is made up of otherwise mindless clones as I suspect, this might involve the Eater's direct intervention. In this case, though, I don't know why he would refuse to kill her. If it was all lies anyway, the only reason I can think of for him to hold off was to wait until she had accomplished some task that he couldn't -- fully activate EC-1101, perhaps, or finish following its routing so that it would run out of searches for a valid heir and trigger Horizons.

I tend to suspect this isn't the case, though. From a narrative perspective, you already have Cognitum (Big Bad), Dawn (The Dragon), and the Eater of Souls (Bigger Bad). The End Boss Club is kind of full at this point. I guess it's a toss-up whether Cogs or Vitiosus turns out being the one they don't have to fight, but under this assumption, Cogs and Vitiosus have roughly the same goals. It could lead to an Evil vs. Evil cage match, but... eh. It would feel odd for Vitiosus to run off and fight Cogs instead of battling BJ the way he's been building up to all this time. I guess maybe I could see setting up a fight between two of them, with BJ slapping down a quarter to say "I got next." And then there's always the possibility of Steel Rain blasting one of them and telling BJ, "You're all clear, kid! Now let's blow this thing and go home!" (Bow chicka bow wow.) Still, I'd be more inclined to expect a Cogs vs. Vitiosus match to involve BJ's body, so see previous possibility.

[O. Hinds]

Sorry I'm a full week late with this. Last weekend, I'd just started Hard Reset, and I kinda had to finish the trilogy before I could break off a chunk of time to sit down and read this (since, as previously mentioned, I hate having to stop in the middle of a PH chapter.)

Chapter 64 Commentary:

Editing:

Ah, thank you.

Unquestionably. Unquestioning would mean "I took my orders without asking questions."

…Um. "Unquestionably" is what's in. You, ah, you quoted it, right there. :)

Don't worry about the delay, though.

The thread lives!

Sorry I'm a full week late with this. Last weekend, I'd just started Hard Reset, and I kinda had to finish the trilogy before I could break off a chunk of time to sit down and read this (since, as previously mentioned, I hate having to stop in the middle of a PH chapter.)

Yeah, I know how that feels. Re Hard Reset, are you considering reading Hard Reset 2: Reset Harder? I've been enjoying it, and I never even read Eakin's trilogy (although I might, if time permits).

“An inch,” Trottenheimer said quietly.  “It is small and it is fragile, but it is the only thing worth having.”

Huh... I don't quite get it. The inch that makes the difference between standing on a cliff and falling off of it?

That's basically the way I thought of it. Basically, I think of the cheesemonger from FoE's philosophy, but with someone who seems like less of an insincere, manipulative jackass.

Chapter Seven Running Thoughts:

Chapter Seven Overall Thoughts:

Chapter Seven Editing:

Ah, thank you very much as always.

[O. Hinds]

I don't know about anyone else, but I get a 403: Forbidden error on these images. Maybe you ought to copy them to a public server like ServImg first.

I'm not seeing them either.

Also, nice speculation. :)

[SilentCarto]

Yeah, I know how that feels. Re Hard Reset, are you considering reading Hard Reset 2: Reset Harder? I've been enjoying it, and I never even read Eakin's trilogy (although I might, if time permits).

I hadn't heard of it. I guess I'll look. In the Hard Reset trilogy, there's one chapter (well... two chapters. Time loops, argh,) with a grimdark warning. I thought, "Dark? I read Project Horizons! Bring it on!" And, yeah, it was really only slightly dark on a Blackjack-calibrated scale. Definitely deserved the warning to protect those who want their candy horses happy, though.

…Um.  "Unquestionably" is what's in.  You, ah, you quoted it, right there.  :)

Yes, and I quoted it as "ing". I just got ninja'd on the fix.

[O. Hinds]

Yes, and I quoted it as "ing". I just got ninja'd on the fix.

Oh, sorry!

[Evilgidgit]

I still would like to believe that Mr. Horse has some sort of role with Cognitum, so once again I'll throw my theory on the table but instead of being Cognitum, perhaps he created her via his Crusader ripoff and downloaded his own mind into it, while still playing the role of Mr. House from New Vegas and is still alive but stuck in a horrific state. And is Cognitum in Sweetiebot's body.

[SilentCarto]

I still would like to believe that Mr. Horse has some sort of role with Cognitum, so once again I'll throw my theory on the table but instead of being Cognitum, perhaps he created her via his Crusader ripoff and downloaded his own mind into it, while still playing the role of Mr. House from New Vegas and is still alive but stuck in a horrific state. And is Cognitum in Sweetiebot's body.

Horse strikes me as a shallow, short-sighted twit who thought he could play in the big leagues.  He was probably very proud of himself for arresting Goldenblood, as if it was even his idea. I'm betting he's a pile of dust in a corner somewhere, if he wasn't the first to liquefy (or some other equally ignominious fate.)

[Icy Shake]

Yeah, I know how that feels. Re Hard Reset, are you considering reading Hard Reset 2: Reset Harder? I've been enjoying it, and I never even read Eakin's trilogy (although I might, if time permits).

I hadn't heard of it. I guess I'll look. In the Hard Reset trilogy, there's one chapter (well... two chapters. Time loops, argh,) with a grimdark warning. I thought, "Dark? I read Project Horizons! Bring it on!" And, yeah, it was really only slightly dark on a Blackjack-calibrated scale. Definitely deserved the warning to protect those who want their candy horses happy, though.

It's Horizon's (apparently authorized) alt-universe reimagining of the story, but with more time loops. And, yeah, it's hard to outdo something where "murder . . . murder . . . murder and desecrate . . . desecrate and murder" is the order of the day. But just because you want your candy horses happy doesn't mean you can't enjoy Project Horizons—you just need to be able to put up with the hard times so that you can enjoy the good ones!

(On that note, I remember something from EqD a few years ago, writing advice, one part of which was that to write good (pony) stories you need to need to do terrible things to ponies—even Fluttershy (especially Fluttershy)!)

I still would like to believe that Mr. Horse has some sort of role with Cognitum, so once again I'll throw my theory on the table but instead of being Cognitum, perhaps he created her via his Crusader ripoff and downloaded his own mind into it, while still playing the role of Mr. House from New Vegas and is still alive but stuck in a horrific state. And is Cognitum in Sweetiebot's body.

Horse strikes me as a shallow, short-sighted twit who thought he could play in the big leagues.  He was probably very proud of himself for arresting Goldenblood, as if it was even his idea. I'm betting he's a pile of dust in a corner somewhere, if he wasn't the first to liquefy (or some other equally ignominious fate.)

Yeah, that sounds about right. Thinking of a comparison, the real world one I'm happiest with is Mussolini. In fiction, perhaps Rabban from Dune might work, but not perfectly. Basically, he thinks that he's the real deal, maybe not the top of the pack but at least a power player, but is actually nothing but a pawn for the real masters at play, and can only even make his move because the big boys let him.

Chapter Eight Running Thoughts:

Chapter Eight Overall Thoughts:

Chapter Eight Editing:

[O. Hinds]

Yeah, I know how that feels. Re Hard Reset, are you considering reading Hard Reset 2: Reset Harder? I've been enjoying it, and I never even read Eakin's trilogy (although I might, if time permits).

I hadn't heard of it. I guess I'll look. In the Hard Reset trilogy, there's one chapter (well... two chapters. Time loops, argh,) with a grimdark warning. I thought, "Dark? I read Project Horizons! Bring it on!" And, yeah, it was really only slightly dark on a Blackjack-calibrated scale. Definitely deserved the warning to protect those who want their candy horses happy, though.

It's Horizon's (apparently authorized) alt-universe reimagining of the story, but with more time loops. And, yeah, it's hard to outdo something where "murder . . . murder . . . murder and desecrate . . . desecrate and murder" is the order of the day. But just because you want your candy horses happy doesn't mean you can't enjoy Project Horizons—you just need to be able to put up with the hard times so that you can enjoy the good ones!

(On that note, I remember something from EqD a few years ago, writing advice, one part of which was that to write good (pony) stories you need to need to do terrible things to ponies—even Fluttershy (especially Fluttershy)!)

I still would like to believe that Mr. Horse has some sort of role with Cognitum, so once again I'll throw my theory on the table but instead of being Cognitum, perhaps he created her via his Crusader ripoff and downloaded his own mind into it, while still playing the role of Mr. House from New Vegas and is still alive but stuck in a horrific state. And is Cognitum in Sweetiebot's body.

Horse strikes me as a shallow, short-sighted twit who thought he could play in the big leagues.  He was probably very proud of himself for arresting Goldenblood, as if it was even his idea. I'm betting he's a pile of dust in a corner somewhere, if he wasn't the first to liquefy (or some other equally ignominious fate.)

Yeah, that sounds about right. Thinking of a comparison, the real world one I'm happiest with is Mussolini. In fiction, perhaps Rabban from Dune might work, but not perfectly. Basically, he thinks that he's the real deal, maybe not the top of the pack but at least a power player, but is actually nothing but a pawn for the real masters at play, and can only even make his move because the big boys let him.

Chapter Eight Running Thoughts:

Chapter Eight Overall Thoughts:

Chapter Eight Editing:

Ah, thank you very much as always.

[Evilgidgit]

I still would like to believe that Mr. Horse has some sort of role with Cognitum, so once again I'll throw my theory on the table but instead of being Cognitum, perhaps he created her via his Crusader ripoff and downloaded his own mind into it, while still playing the role of Mr. House from New Vegas and is still alive but stuck in a horrific state. And is Cognitum in Sweetiebot's body.

Horse strikes me as a shallow, short-sighted twit who thought he could play in the big leagues.  He was probably very proud of himself for arresting Goldenblood, as if it was even his idea. I'm betting he's a pile of dust in a corner somewhere, if he wasn't the first to liquefy (or some other equally ignominious fate.)

I don't know, that would be too merciful for someone like Horse. And as shallow, short-sighted and jerk-ish as Horse is, he still would've likely had a way to survive a megaspell attack, being a master of robotics and opportunism. So I say he downloaded his mind into his Crusader ripoff, and is perhaps Cognitum's butt monkey.

[SilentCarto]

I don't know, that would be too merciful for someone like Horse. And as shallow, short-sighted and jerk-ish as Horse is, he still would've likely had a way to survive a megaspell attack, being a master of robotics and opportunism. So I say he downloaded his mind into his Crusader ripoff, and is perhaps Cognitum's butt monkey.

I sort of picture him arranging some "clever" way to escape, only to find a note taped to it that says,

Thanks for building me an escape pod! You really saved my hay bacon.
Love,
Goldenblood
XOXO

[Evilgidgit]

I don't know, that would be too merciful for someone like Horse. And as shallow, short-sighted and jerk-ish as Horse is, he still would've likely had a way to survive a megaspell attack, being a master of robotics and opportunism. So I say he downloaded his mind into his Crusader ripoff, and is perhaps Cognitum's butt monkey.

I sort of picture him arranging some "clever" way to escape, only to find a note taped to it that says,

Thanks for building me an escape pod! You really saved my hay bacon.
Love,
Goldenblood
XOXO

Oooh, that would be lovely. And then there's a video recording of Goldenblood making faces at him for twenty hours, or parodying Wayne Knight's "didn't say the magic word" tease from Jurassic Park.

[Derpmind]

Guys, I think I just figured out Project Horizons.

While turning the moon into starmetal is a suitably epic endeavor for any evil mustache-twirling villain, I'm not sure why Goldenblood would do so. What would a moon-sized chunk of power be used for, and in fact what could starmetal be used for anyways? Unless someone figured out how to use starmetal to do something besides kill stuff and reshape itself weird, this wouldn't do much more than prompt the megaspell-destruction that happened anyways. Remember, Project Horizons is somehow meant to benefit Equestria, or at the least Luna. I suppose it's possible that it's been figured out how to use starmetal to do mind-control, so maybe the moon would mind-control the planet for Luna? That's really my best guess.

[Shady]

Dat ending! I swear my braintube played this in my head:

[SilentCarto]

Guys, I think I just figured out Project Horizons.

While turning the moon into starmetal is a suitably epic endeavor for any evil mustache-twirling villain, I'm not sure why Goldenblood would do so. What would a moon-sized chunk of power be used for, and in fact what could starmetal be used for anyways? Unless someone figured out how to use starmetal to do something besides kill stuff and reshape itself weird, this wouldn't do much more than prompt the megaspell-destruction that happened anyways. Remember, Project Horizons is somehow meant to benefit Equestria, or at the least Luna. I suppose it's possible that it's been figured out how to use starmetal to do mind-control, so maybe the moon would mind-control the planet for Luna? That's really my best guess.

Huh? No, I mean he'd convert moonstone until it reached something on the order of 1 million tons, then shut off the shields and let it touch the surface. He implied that Horizons was a massive weapon. It was supposed to "wipe out the bad" and save the rest. I suspect that Project Redoubt, which is apparently Nightmare Moon's fortress inside Black Pony Mountain, was supposed to protect those who were chosen to survive, but that apparently didn't go to plan.

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