Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

[O. Hinds]

"Scourged" means "whipped" or "beaten". "Scoured" means "scrubbed" or "removed completely". Only the latter makes sense in this context.

Hm… Eh, I think that that's debatable, but sure.

Oh, just thinking of that plastic doodad Steel Rain presented to her at the coronation. I was expecting Chekhov to fire that gun in this chapter.

Oh, that. I don't actually know what that is, and Blackjack certainly doesn't. :)

Nah, you just become a dragonequus once you hit around 6k posts. Speaking of which... *Drags SilentCarto into IMP vat*

Well, it is possible to get custom titles, if the mods are in the mood (says the "Zebra Engineer"). :)

Oh, on that note, some good news: I finally got my grades back, and I have the required minimum GPA, got an A in a course taught by a professor I want to impress, and, thanks to scraping a C, don't have to retake GEAI. I'm pretty pleased.

In other news, I'm trying my best to work on my commentary for the chapter when I can, it's just going very slowly... Hopefully I'll have it finished in another day or two, I'm sorry for the delay, Somber.

I can't actually speak for him, but I doubt that he minds. Post it when you can.

[Adalbertus]

Living on the other side of the world does make it hard to keep up with you guys. <_<

anyway...

So you're right, Glory is a poor candidate. Scotch might be a better one, uncomfortable as that idea may be. Boo might or might not, depending on exactly what her genetic makeup is. But there are other options. Maybe they could stasis pod the fetus (pre-conscious, to avoid Whisper's problems) to give them time to wait for Doctor Morningstar's cutting of the cloning tree to get big enough to clone a fresh body for BJ. Then they can transplant BJ's brain like Sanguine did with his family, and surrogate the fetus into the new body. Or they could use the tree to grow a womb, creepy as that may be. Or, hey, give the mini-tree a sample of the fetus and clone up a newborn foal. Would that even work?

I wouldn't exclude Glory just yet. Pegasi are compatible with other ponies, after all they can interbreed quite easily... I mean, Glory was able to hook up Blackjack to Rampage's respiratory and circulatory systems, that's way, way more likely to result in rejection... and she did it on a filthy boat in the middle of polluted river. I'm pretty sure smart ponies with decent enough equipment could manage a successful surrogacy on an unrelated pegasus.

As for other options... Boo is probably designed to be as compatible as possible with other ponies, being basically a living organ plantation, so I'd say that would work too.

Rampage... I'm not sure her talisman would allow for such operation. I mean, getting pregnant herself is one thing, having it artificially implanted is something completely different and her talisman might treat it as an infection.

And Scorch is pretty young for getting pregnant, she might not be able to carry it to term. Also, limited gene pool, yes, but also pretty strict reproduction policies. Stable 99 was not Stable 2, where after few generations everyone was related to everyone... hmm... technically Littlepip would be a good surrogate mother, after all, Tarot's biological father was Big Mac our little toster repair mare is as much Apple as possible. :D

[Guest]

*Snip.*

True enough. But there's only so much material to work with. Unless 99 was opening up every now and then to abduct stallions that happened to wander close enough by I think Scotch being related is a safe bet.

And I'm personally of the opinion that P-21 was breaking the system. I think that when a foal is born the stallion that fathered them is recycled naturally before the offspring enters the breeding queue. But he and his lover were killing the younger stallions to delay that outcome as long as possible.

I just don't see Glory working out. But there's always the chance someone just happened to be researching this process all along to make it work with someone unrelated. I suppose. as conveniant as that sounds.

But if that's the route taken It might a well be a nameless 99 survivor that was more closely related to BJ. In fact I'd be more for that option.

[Adalbertus]

And I'm personally of the opinion that P-21 was breaking the system. I think that when a foal is born the stallion that fathered them is recycled naturally before the offspring enters the breeding queue. But he and his lover were killing the younger stallions to delay that outcome as long as possible.

As entertaining as this idea looks, this is pretty unlikely. However, I'd assume that a standard period of time a stallion is active in the queue is about 10 years, so it would indeed be pretty unlikely that a father and daughter would be paired for reproduction.

Besides, with the arrangement that there's only one foal per mare (I'm assuming a female foal here) and for simplicity let's assume 200 years of such arrangement (we know that this is false, since there was that rebellion and things were different before, but I can't be bothered to check this now) and an average age of reproduction at about 25 years (which would make the average lifespan of a stable mare to be 50-ish, again, I'm assuming things, because I don't remember if it was stated anywhere). That gives us  8 generations of stable mares. With 40 stallions with well-documented lineages, it's not hard to assume that Medical could keep the inbreeding to minimum.

We could even try to calculate the probability of P-21 being related to BJ, but that would just be the probability and it would go anywhere from siblings to never having any common relative in the stable, so I don't care for doing this. :P

But if that's the route taken It might a well be a nameless 99 survivor that was more closely related to BJ. In fact I'd be more for that option.

I doubt that any pony who survived gassing of stable 99 (and being locked, condemned to die alone of starving or worse) would want to have anything that's related to Blackjack implanted into her.

Fun fact: if Twilight Society figures out that the collection of cells growing in Blackjack's womb is a direct descendant of Twilight Sparkle, they'd probably find legions of suitable surrogate mothers to give birth to their new pony messiah. :p

[Guest]

I doubt that any pony who survived gassing of stable 99 (and being locked, condemned to die alone of starving or worse) would want to have anything that's related to Blackjack implanted into her.

Fun fact: if Twilight Society figures out that the collection of cells growing in Blackjack's womb is a direct descendant of Twilight Sparkle, they'd probably find legions of suitable surrogate mothers to give birth to their new pony messiah. :p

I can't really argue the breeding queue. I can't pretend to know how stable 99 ran things when it came to that. I have theories but they're just theories.

Oh and I'm not going to lie. I didn't actually think that was likely, I just prefer that to Glory being more brillant than all the M.O.P scientists and having access to better materials than them so she can improve upon their processes.

You could argue the collegiate could pull it off, but I'd like to think they've done enough for BJ that Steelpony is allowed to continue to take priority over her 2 day old sperm. And if they did stop for her I'd have to suggest they change their name to BJ R&D.

Anyway a while back somber posted something that went like "BJ has to have a [redacted]" my guess is the redacted is going to be miscarriage.

Oh god the twilight society XD. They'd probably just try and take it from her with no plans on what to do with it.

[Adalbertus]

Well... miscarriage is probably one of the terrible things that still didn't happen to her, although it I really won't want to see her being turned into a walking misery magnet. So far it's pretty well-balanced (well, considering the circumstances) and PH already kinda resembles a checklist of terrible things that can happen to someone. Adding more might push it over the line.

I mean, granted, miscarriage is not the worst thing that would happen to her, but from the every beginning of her story her marehood and the ability to have children was shown as something important to her. right now it's probably the last part of her that's her. I'm afraid that if she fails in this regard, the whole story of Blackjack is her good bye letter...

[Guest]

Nothing stopping her from trying again. No matter how mutilated she gets she has never gotten to the point that she's lost any of her reproductive organs. They've avoided growing tumors when she was lying on th operating table with those foals messing with her they didn't rip out her uterus and even now she's still intact.

I think you're right she's expressed wanting to be a mother but only when everything was over.

Hell through all her changes she's apparently remained attractive. So getting a donor would be no problem. Granted when each one of her legs was essentially a bag of tumors and she had a penis for an eye the guy that wanted to sleep with her was a pretty massive whore and would probably sleep with anything with a mare's shape. (By the way I am NOT referring to the seahorse. I am referring to Bottlecap and that mare from Flank BJ slept with a bunch's dad. Can't remember his name at the moment.)

I'm not saying she wouldn't be upset by it, I'm just saying nothing is and nothing will stop her from trying again provided she doesn't die. Or in the incredibly off chance Glory puts her hoof down and decides enough is enough when it comes to the extra partners.

[Adalbertus]

I'm not saying that it would stop her from trying, but the psychological trauma might be the thing that breaks her will. The last piece of real pony in her failed her and she couldn't protect her own unborn child from the wasteland.

As for her attractiveness, I said it before, rebo-legs, sexy (especially in the wasteland, where strength is a very desirable trait), but a pony-shaped pile of heavy plating with a small hole(or to) to stick your penis into... nope, not sexy at all. besides, even more important is ho BJ sees herself. She was relatively comfortable with her robo-legs, but now... probably for her the only difference between her current state and Deus is that she cut her guns off.


And I think Glory is at least starting to consider Blackjack's point of view :P

[Guest]

And I think Glory is at least starting to consider Blackjack's point of view :P

*Sigh.* I'd prefer if BJ tried to see Glory's. I don't want to rehash this again but Glory has given up so much for BJ (She became a dashite, she lost her name, her wing, she held her lover as she died, she witnessed her mother become a monster and nearly kill her father.) I think monagomy is something she can give to her in return. When it did happen she was kinda forced to accept it. In the wasteland if she ain't got BJ what does she have? Excluding the pressure Scotch and P-21 put on her with their "You gotta understand she's from 99 that's the way it is." speeches. she didn't exactly have Dusk there to provide support and say "Well that's not the way it is in the enclave."

:P I wouldn't be surprised if there was a sudden robot fetish that swept through the wastes.

[Adalbertus]

Well, to be painfully honest, Glory didn't louse all those things for Blackjack and out of the two, BJ still lost a lot more, but I understand what do you mean and it is up to Glory (or the author) to decide.
What i meant by "starting to consider Blackjack's point of view" is that she sees the advantages of it, not exactly appeal maybe (although she did boink the prince)  but maybe she'll be open to entertain Blackjack's ideas from time to time... if there is a future for them that is. and this story will have a moderately happy ending.

[Scienza]

And I think Glory is at least starting to consider Blackjack's point of view :P

*Sigh.* I'd prefer if BJ tried to see Glory's. I don't want to rehash this again but Glory has given up so much for BJ (She became a dashite, she lost her name, her wing, she held her lover as she died, she witnessed her mother become a monster and nearly kill her father.) I think monagomy is something she can give to her in return. When it did happen she was kinda forced to accept it. In the wasteland if she ain't got BJ what does she have? Excluding the pressure Scotch and P-21 put on her with their "You gotta understand she's from 99 that's the way it is." speeches. she didn't exactly have Dusk there to provide support and say "Well that's not the way it is in the enclave."

:P I wouldn't be surprised if there was a sudden robot fetish that swept through the wastes.

I sorta feel this way as well. I get that relationships in 99 were usually polyamorous, and that she's unlikely to change that much, but it's just... weird. It's certainly damaged her relationship with Glory, and the way she constantly presses Glory to accept her point of view just strikes me as sort of selfish.

Maybe it's just the hopeless romantic in me who obsessively ships Gloryjack.

[SilentCarto]

I'm pretty sure smart ponies with decent enough equipment could manage a successful surrogacy on an unrelated pegasus.

The entire MoP at the height of their power and knowledge couldn't make it work better than "almost no possibility of success." What are a bunch of scavengers going to do differently?

[Moodyman90]

Find the group of ponies with 100 in Medicine, 100 in Science, 100 in Repair, the Jury Rigging Perk and 10 in Luck? I guess they'd have to be unicorns as well with 100 in Magic.

[Guest]

Well, to be painfully honest, Glory didn't louse all those things for Blackjack and out of the two, BJ still lost a lot more.

I respectfully disagree. Not on BJ losing more I can agree with you there. BJ lost everything she did to her quest. Glory didn't. All Glory had to do to save herself was to leave BJ (Which wasn't much of an option.) so she lost these things to BJ. At least that's my point of view.

[Guest]

I sorta feel this way as well. I get that relationships in 99 were usually polyamorous, and that she's unlikely to change that much, but it's just... weird. It's certainly damaged her relationship with Glory, and the way she constantly presses Glory to accept her point of view just strikes me as sort of selfish.

Maybe it's just the hopeless romantic in me who obsessively ships Gloryjack.

  Yay. I thought I was alone there.

[Adalbertus]

The entire MoP at the height of their power and knowledge couldn't make it work better than "almost no possibility of success." What are a bunch of scavengers going to do differently?

The entire MoP staff and all their equipment worked under certain safety protocols, while aforementioned scavengers are desperate and they manage to macgyver a miracle after a miracle. But what do I know... I still think Boo is the best option =P

All Glory had to do to save herself was to leave BJ (Which wasn't much of an option.) so she lost these things to BJ. At least that's my point of view.

It's hard to say, really, how many of those sacrifices were to BJ and how many to the times and places she found herself. It's more like, "wasteland sucks" and quite frankly she stayed alive only because she was with Blackjack. It was a cruel payment for survival and not a sacrifice to her love. But this ultimately doesn't matter. Glory doesn't need any reason beyond love to ask Blackjack to respect her decision about monogamistic(is that a word?) nature of their relationship. She doesn't need to list all the things she lost or sacrificed and talks like that only serve to play down the actual feeling they have for each other.

[Silver136]

I felt like P-21 summed it up well after Glory lost her wing in the tunnel. He said something along the lines of: You led us, but we were the ones who followed. We had every chance to leave. So I'm more of the opinion that its not entirely Blackjack's fault, but just as much Glory's.

[SilentCarto]

The entire MoP at the height of their power and knowledge couldn't make it work better than "almost no possibility of success." What are a bunch of scavengers going to do differently?

The entire MoP staff and all their equipment worked under certain safety protocols, while aforementioned scavengers are desperate and they manage to macgyver a miracle after a miracle. But what do I know... I still think Boo is the best option =P

I don't know what you're talking about. The only "miracle" I can think of involved an infinitely-regenerating earth pony and a length of pipe. Everything else has basically been using pre-war medical tech for its intended purposes.

BJ's lifesaving cyberization was a straightforward application of Project Steelpony, and mostly involved installing Silver Stripe's preexisting augments into BJ. The alicornication was similarly based on an existing Steelpony design with a pre-war computer genius manipulating which components it added. Her "black legs" upgrade was the only one that was truly cobbled together, and they were just building on the Steelpony platform, and had a pre-war cyberneticist (Rover) to help. Scotch Tape's new lungs were thanks to the intended use of a stasis pod and Project Chimera's cloning tree.

If the ministry that could pull together megaspells to fuse a pony with a cockatrice (and that invented the surrogate spell in the first place) says "almost no chance", I'll accept that. The alternatives might be a lot more "out there", but they seem like better bets.

Regarding Scotch: It's a very uncomfortable option, I know, but one more reason she might be the final choice -- foreshadowing. In BJ's dream/vision of the dark future, Scotch was branded as a "breeder". Wouldn't it be ironic if Scotch willingly became an un-twisted reflection of a twisted future?

[Adalbertus]

*all that he said*

I was actually thinking about having all that pre-war tech and getting it work, as, you know, a miracle. Putting together cybernetics for Blackjack using few different steelpony designs and whatever they could find, that for example would probably never happen in pre-war Equestria, because even if forced by circumstances they'd decide against such risk. 
Now don't get me wrong, if there really is no chance for a successful surrogacy, there there is no chance, period. But what I'm assuming here is that the little info we have on the spell is from a pamphlet designed to inform the society about the issue. There's probably a huge margin of error in place there and a lot of simplifications. Just like in real life.

And again, my vote is for Boo, since she's probably designed to ensure maximum compatibility with other ponies, as an universal organ donor.

[Guest]

I just checked the calender. Looks like snipe's birthday was a couple days ago. So if he still checks this thread happy late birthday Snipe.

[Guest]

Regarding Scotch: It's a very uncomfortable option, I know, but one more reason she might be the final choice -- foreshadowing. In BJ's dream/vision of the dark future, Scotch was branded as a "breeder". Wouldn't it be ironic if Scotch willingly became an un-twisted reflection of a twisted future?

I think this is likely. All the predictions came true as far as I can tell. BJ was reborn, priest died, Glory was mutated, Lacunea is gone. So scotch and P-21 are the only two remaining. And maybe Majina?

[Icy Shake]

All Glory had to do to save herself was to leave BJ (Which wasn't much of an option.) so she lost these things to BJ. At least that's my point of view.

It's hard to say, really, how many of those sacrifices were to BJ and how many to the times and places she found herself.  It's more like, "wasteland sucks" and quite frankly she stayed alive only because she was with Blackjack. It was a cruel payment for survival and not a sacrifice to her love. But this ultimately doesn't matter. Glory doesn't need any reason beyond love to ask Blackjack to respect her decision about monogamistic(is that a word?) nature of their relationship. She doesn't need to list all the things she lost or sacrificed and talks like that only serve to play down the actual feeling they have for each other.

I largely agree here; it's not about who gave up what and why, and frankly making it about that would be missing the point. However, I look at it from a perspective where while Glory has every right to ask Blackjack to be monogamous, Blackjack would be no less right to ask that she be allowed to have sex outside of their relationship. I think it's symmetrical, and in either case one is asking the other to make a concession, which may or may not be worth making.

Of course, Blackjack already agreed to do so, or at least to give it a try, and that makes a big difference. That said, things get reevaluated all the time, and there's no reason to think that she'd necessarily always feel the same way. I don't particularly expect that to change, but who knows? It might never come up, though, because one of the things that's been hanging out there for a long time is that Glory felt not only jealousy with respect to Blackjack, even before they were a couple, but also envy with respect to her sexual outlook. That could influence her thinking going forward, especially if or as she comes to see that, yes, Blackjack does (and therefore, in principle, Glory can) compartmentalize different aspects of her relationship life. Or maybe we'll end up with a full-on Gloryjack-21 poly coupling. Or something else.

Also, "monogamistic" is a word, but kind of archaic; the more common one for that situation is "monogamous."

[Guest]

Gloryjack-21 poly coupling. Or something else.

No? My memory is very selective. I remember very specific things. Like in conversations I'll remember things for a very long time but when it comes to other things I can forget them in five minutes. A while ago somber said. "In a year even if Glory is still RD she will not being doing a repeat perfomance." This is in reference to Glory sleeping with prince asshole. And when it comes to "repeat performances" he's talking about her sleeping with stallions. And when it comes to the year thing I'm pretty sure he's referencing equine estrus cycle (Which if I'm remmbering correctly is annual.) so even with the added hormone of estrus in a straight mare's body she wasn't going to be sleeping with anymore stallions.

So if you were talking about a love triangle thing where there all together. No.

[Icy Shake]

Gloryjack-21 poly coupling. Or something else.

So if you were talking about a love triangle thing where there all together. No.

What I said didn't need to involve Glory ever having sex with P-21. Or, for that Nor, as a more general matter than this conversation, being as it is about the sexual aspect of Glory and Blackjack's relationship, Blackjack having sex with him., but within the context of the larger statement I can see how it could be read as implicit.

[WavemasterRyx]

In other news, I'm trying my best to work on my commentary for the chapter when I can, it's just going very slowly... Hopefully I'll have it finished in another day or two, I'm sorry for the delay, Somber.

I can't actually speak for him, but I doubt that he minds.  Post it when you can.

Well thank you, Hinds, I'm sure he won't mind too much either, still, I know the comments are important, so I felt an apology was warranted since it's taking so long.

I'll finally be able to get back to work on it later tonight, but in the meantime, at least I have this to post.

Bwackjack!:

http://wavemasterryx.tumblr.com/post/70357740104

[SilentCarto]

And again, my vote is for Boo, since she's probably designed to ensure maximum compatibility with other ponies, as an universal organ donor.

That's... not entirely accurate. The donor clones are supposed to be just that -- clones. Blanks something entirely different -- a result of cycling the system without a DNA sample. That's not to say Blanks aren't genetically neutral enough for this to work, but they're not designed for that, so far as we know.

[O. Hinds]

In other news, I'm trying my best to work on my commentary for the chapter when I can, it's just going very slowly... Hopefully I'll have it finished in another day or two, I'm sorry for the delay, Somber.

I can't actually speak for him, but I doubt that he minds.  Post it when you can.

Well thank you, Hinds, I'm sure he won't mind too much either, still, I know the comments are important, so I felt an apology was warranted since it's taking so long.

I'll finally be able to get back to work on it later tonight, but in the meantime, at least I have this to post.

Bwackjack!:

http://wavemasterryx.tumblr.com/post/70357740104

I saw it in the art thread first, but this gives me an opportunity to upvote it twice. :)

[Vergil]

aaaaaaaand there's the diabeetus.

[Adalbertus]

I think this is likely. All the predictions came true as far as I can tell. BJ was reborn, priest died, Glory was mutated, Lacunea is gone. So scotch and P-21 are the only two remaining. And maybe Majina?

I actually forgot about the dream (and to be honest I don't remember where in the progress of the story it was <_<), so it just might be the option, although at her current age I don't think it'd be safe for Scotch to carry a baby even if she's genetically closest to it.

I think it's symmetrical, and in either case one is asking the other to make a concession, which may or may not be worth making.

yeah, but lets face it, most of us would side with Glory, if a situation like this happened in out society.

Or maybe we'll end up with a full-on Gloryjack-21 poly coupling.

That would be nice since we know both P-21 and Glory have feelings for BJ... but we'd have to toss in one more stallion to the mix, so P-21 could be completely happy =P

And Scotch Tape would have Glory as a step-mother... brilliant :D

Also, "monogamistic" is a word, but kind of archaic; the more common one for that situation is "monogamous."

Thanks :)

And again, my vote is for Boo, since she's probably designed to ensure maximum compatibility with other ponies, as an universal organ donor.

That's... not entirely accurate. The donor clones are supposed to be just that -- clones. Blanks something entirely different -- a result of cycling the system without a DNA sample. That's not to say Blanks aren't genetically neutral enough for this to work, but they're not designed for that, so far as we know.

They're not really designed to do anything. They are presented as what the system creates minus any genetic markers to specify which pony they are meant to replicate.
I would figure (with my utter lack of any form of medical education) nothing to specify, nothing that can be rejected.

Someone designed the system, so someone had to design the "clean" state of production and since blanks were mass-produced as organ donors (or at least that's how I understand it) their organs, and thus entire bodies, were at least neutral in regards to genetic markers and whatever other criteria might had to be considered. Otherwise it would be a huge waste of energy and resources. And as far as I know (and I could be wrong, my last biology class was 10 years ago) but reproductive system is one of the most autonomous because by default it deals with a foreign body living and growing inside of it. So if we could transplant Boo's liver or heart into someone, we could easily transplant a fetus into her.

[Caoimhe]

Lets discuss all the potential problems Blackjack's kid would have:

- Severe radiation poisoning
- Fetal alcohol syndrome
- Having Blackjack for a mom
- etc

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