Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

[CD]

You get pregnant! And you get pregnant! EVERYONE GETS PREGNANT!

I'd like to get pregnant, only I haven't got a womb. I'd better find a shoebox instead.

[Derpmind]

Sometimes when people talk about the flaws in FoE I feel like saying "it wasn't really that bad", but then I remember that I've only read it once and I've never had any inclination to reread it. Also, while some of Kkat's 'headcanon' stuff (she's posted some of it in her fimfiction blog and on some FoE roleplaying forums that I don't even remember where it was) is creative and interesting I don't really like most of it. I remember reading from an FoE roleplay manual (that Kkat had a big hand in) an extensive section about zebra's species-exclusive spirit magics and thinking that it fell flat of the shadowy image of zebras in the original fic and just didn't seem like something that could compete with equestria's magitech. I don't think I looked at FoE with much of a critical eye when I read it, and if I read it again I'm afraid that I'd grow to dislike much of it.

In contrast, I've reread many parts of PH, (never kept a count, but I've read most chapters at least twice,) and I've never found anything disappointing or lackluster. Though to go totally off topic, something always felt off to me about Stygius. I like him, but his personality felt like it came more from him being a batpony than him being Stygius. I haven't read those chapters in forever, though.

PH's cast is a walking therepy group, but it makes sense because of the horrible world they inhabit and have the Wasteland experience in them. This is how normal people would be in a world where everything is corrupt and violent. Even for non stable ponies since they grew up surrounded by death and betrayal.

This so much. One of the biggest over-inflated 'flaws' that haters complain about is the characters having persistent mental problems. Somber isn't putting the same thoughts in BJ's head because he's hammering the readers with a message, it's a realistic reflection of how the same doubts and mental demons keep popping up in anyone's head. It may seem long to read, but that kinda stuff really does take weeks or months to break down. It's undoubtedly one of the strongest aspects of PH and I'd hate to think how much shallower the characters would be if Somber wrote them like they were just characters.

[Scienza]

Sometimes when people talk about the flaws in FoE I feel like saying "it wasn't really that bad", but then I remember that I've only read it once and I've never had any inclination to reread it. Also, while some of Kkat's 'headcanon' stuff (she's posted some of it in her fimfiction blog and on some FoE roleplaying forums that I don't even remember where it was) is creative and interesting I don't really like most of it. I remember reading from an FoE roleplay manual (that Kkat had a big hand in) an extensive section about zebra's species-exclusive spirit magics and thinking that it fell flat of the shadowy image of zebras in the original fic and just didn't seem like something that could compete with equestria's magitech. I don't think I looked at FoE with much of a critical eye when I read it, and if I read it again I'm afraid that I'd grow to dislike much of it.

Having reread both... many times (My obsession runs deep), I agree with that while it has its flaws, it's not a bad tale. I still really like the original from Fillydelphia (25-ish) to Canterlot (37-ish), since that was when the adventure was focused and the group dynamic was at its best. It starts to fizzle out after that, but there were some really great moments there.

If you're at all inclined to reread it, I'd recommend listening to Scorch Mechanic's audiobook version. He hasn't updated it in 9 months, but he made it to Chapter 25 and his voice is just so goddamn beautiful that it makes the weaker early chapters breathe.


I want his voice.

[Caoimhe]

PH's cast is a walking therepy group, but it makes sense because of the horrible world they inhabit and have the Wasteland experience in them. This is how normal people would be in a world where everything is corrupt and violent. Even for non stable ponies since they grew up surrounded by death and betrayal.

This so much. One of the biggest over-inflated 'flaws' that haters complain about is the characters having persistent mental problems. Somber isn't putting the same thoughts in BJ's head because he's hammering the readers with a message, it's a realistic reflection of how the same doubts and mental demons keep popping up in anyone's head. It may seem long to read, but that kinda stuff really does take weeks or months to break down. It's undoubtedly one of the strongest aspects of PH and I'd hate to think how much shallower the characters would be if Somber wrote them like they were just characters.

Lets get into literary theory. Here's an issue that people who gripe about the persistent mental problems don't seem to understand:

- Drama thrives on change (the story progressing).
- Mental illness, however, thrives on keeping things the same.

The circumstances surrounding our characters can change, but the psychological issues they have are never going to become anything meaningfully different. They can't be magically cured instantly, only dealt with. This makes writing characters in drama with mental problems very very difficult unless the author knows firsthand what it's like.

Understanding this makes the story compelling and neglecting the reality of these situations is the wrong way to look at it.

If you're at all inclined to reread it, I'd recommend listening to Scorch Mechanic's audiobook version. He hasn't updated it in 9 months, but he made it to Chapter 25 and his voice is just so goddamn beautiful that it makes the weaker early chapters breathe.


I want his voice.

Interesting. Hope it's better than the "audiodrama" version with the nerdvoice dude who makes RedEye sound like Snidley Whiplash. Or that impossibly ambitious animated version with an annoyingly chipper Pip and Clams that sounds like the voice actor is mumbling. My headcanon for him is with a strong Kentucky Appalachian accent rather than "generic western" that everyone seems to do, argh.

[OneMoreDaySK]

First everyone's Bi in FoE. Now everyone's pregnant. Wat.

[Caoimhe]

Baseless theory: sexual relations bring joy and relief and escapism. Happiness is very very rare in FoE's world so the population being more open is understandable. Pregnancy brings hope and purpose for someone in a world filled with anarchy and destitution.

So everyone fucking everyone and poppin out babies isn't too far off.

[SilentCarto]

Has Cognitum so strongly had "Nightmare Night" Luna's manner of speaking all along? Now, by the way, that's an interesting concept, that the imperfect copy would act more as Luna used to, before becoming adjusted to the new Equestria.

Wellll... I had assumed that GIVE IT GIVE IT GIVE IT was Cog, but she's seeming rather... um... cogent for that. Possibly the "GIVE IT" bit is a system that's largely severed from the central intelligence that Dawn serves.

The handling of the Pinkie memory was marvelous, capturing the desperate and frightening tone beautifully, while maintaining forward movement at a rapid pace and making me not want to force her to shut up. Keeping the mirror separate from the rest was a classy move, leaving a special place for LittlePip as someone she interacted with outside of the super-OD that led to her interactions with the other heroes of the Wasteland.

This. It was a very slick explanation of how she could have set this all up, yet not be fully precognizant during Four Stars or the mirror orb. I really like the idea that her long-range clairvoyance wasn't always on, but rather limited to this one incident.

[SilentCarto]

After seeing the contents of the memory orb, I couldn't get the "Wad of dust" that was in the vent out of my thoughts.  I know it's not really what happened, but I really wanted to believe that it was Sir Lint-Alot going along to help protect the memory orb for Dash until Blackjack could find it...  A silly thought, I know.

D'awwwww... probably not, since Dash put the orb there, but... d'awwwwww!

[SilentCarto]

"Zebra(?) filly(?)" I'd say there's a good chance this is referring to Rampage. Meaning she might have some very important part to play in all this. Also, have we ever seen a user of the phoenix permanently loose themselves? Rampage might just be a child who ended up with the phoenix talisman. Also, by my assessment she's now the character most likely to become an Alicorn Princess Queen.

Yeah, that's about what I figured, too. Though on balance I still suspect she's largely based on Twist. As for alicornization, well, if you live long enough . . .

I'd thought so at first, but the memory at the end of Ch. 50 changed my mind. They talk about someone that Twist should be saying goodbye to, who was apparently peeking out the window at them. I assume this is "Peppermint". I've said before I thought Peppermint was a pet, but the fact that they both seem to feel it important to say goodbye suggests sentience and dependence -- a child or a well-developed blank. And given the presence of Twist's skeleton in the tank at Miramare, that's the explanation I'm standing on. I strongly suspect a zony clone.

[FoolNeim]

So, finally caught up after a long time. Sorry if this is rambling and dumb.

I... really didn't expect this to be ending so soon. Like until a few chapters ago I figured it'd end around chapter 75-80. Now, it's almost over? X_X

I could understand if the end goal were like, chapter 70-72, but it seems like there are way too many loose ends to wrap up the whole story in 3 chapters (2 even?). Please let me know if any of these were resolved and I missed it:

-Cognitum still needs to be resolved (along with Dawn). I'm not even clear on what she is. Although I guess there's movement on that.
-The bottlecaps and other stuff randomly getting re-stocked in the Hoof by some mysterious power even after centuries. I assume this has to do with Cognitum.
-It seems like Boo hasn't really fulfilled her role. I thought Somber said that Boo would be part of the main group in "Part 5", although I assume we're there already, but she really hasn't done much in the bigger scheme of things.
-The afterlife sequence when Blackjack died a second time and saw some pony being tortured in the center of some other pocket dimension or whatnot. I kind of assumed that was going to be Rainbow Dash but I guess not. Every other famous historical character has also been eliminated from consideration as far as I can tell.
-Legate and his parents are still a mess right now, plus the zebra tribes on the surface are still technically engaged in hostile actions iirc.
-The survivors of Stable 99. I figured maybe just maybe Blackjack might have gotten a chance to face them.
-Have we actually seen the last of Deus? Wasn't it implied that even in tank-form he was still capable of speech, but just never chose to say anything?
-Just what the hell is the star metal? I assume this is linked to Cognitum and the Core in the Hoof.
-Is Psychoshy/Whisper gone for good? I know Somber really didn't like his Stygius character, but I figure she'd show up again. I guess like a lot of characters, she's not really necessary for story advancement though, even if her mother is alive.
-The purplish dragon-pony. I sort of figured that would end up being Rarity and Spike's illegitimate child, but it didn't pan out that way. What happened to that character?

What I'm saying is this feels like it really should have stretched out a bit longer. I actually figured that Thunderhead was a final detour before everything converged back on the Hoof, but now it seems things are going to end very soon.

Anyway, some thoughts on Chapter 61:

-the memory orb that explains all the other memory orbs was rather brilliant, and both ties up a lot of stuff and actually enriches the original FO:E story.

-Blackjack's Killing Joke curse wore off fairly quickly when her exploding touch became useful and the joke stopped being funny. I guess the curse can also end when ending the curse is suddenly funnier than keeping it, thus the old switcheroo. The fact that Morning Glory bathed in the cure for the Laughing Joke might actually not be necessary here, plotwise, although I suppose either works.

-Why do I get the feeling the ending might slightly resemble the ending to Code Geass? Not that that's a bad thing.

-I really hope Blackjack and Glory have a happy ending.... Little Pip already takes the weight of the world on her shoulders at the end. I feel like Blackjack deserves some peace. Of course, the story goes where it goes, and if the ending is bittersweet I would understand.

[Valikdu]

I could understand if the end goal were like, chapter 70-72,

I was lead to believe that there's about 7 to 9 (or more) left.

Yes, a crumpled up ending like in the original would be a... bad thing. But I believe that this won't happen.

[O. Hinds]

So, finally caught up after a long time. Sorry if this is rambling and dumb.

I... really didn't expect this to be ending so soon. Like until a few chapters ago I figured it'd end around chapter 75-80. Now, it's almost over? X_X

I could understand if the end goal were like, chapter 70-72, but it seems like there are way too many loose ends to wrap up the whole story in 3 chapters (2 even?)

…Oh, is this about that "couple" in the author's notes? Don't worry; that's not literal, and you're not the only person to get confused by it.

-Why do I get the feeling the ending might slightly resemble the ending to Code Geass? Not that that's a bad thing.

How did that end? I've heard that it's a pretty good anime, but… Well, I've a friend who had to give up on FoE because, though he enjoyed it, he found mouthguns silly enough to ruin it for him; I seem to have a similar reaction to giant humanoid robots.

[SilentCarto]

I had thoughts on TVTropes and now I'm curious your thoughts to my thoughts.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13213768970A31636800&page=432#10798

Well... you're not wrong, I guess. At least in terms of the "shoulda, coulda, woulda" of writing MDW in earlier. Here's my thoughts...

Rainbow Dash Suggestions:

For right now, if you think that the arc for RD is too much in too short a time, it might be best to reduce RDs interactions with BJ and give her some reasons to stay out of the spotlight most of the time. Or have RD do most of that arc offscreen in PH, but put it in its own side-story.

I disagree for the same reason I didn't want Somber to short-circuit the Thunderhead arc. When you introduce something as significant as RD or Thunderhead, subsequently minimizing its influence is a great way to make it feel careless and tacked-on. As Somber noted, RD is already in danger of that, so anything that shoves her out of the spotlight is probably a poor choice. She needs more screen time, not less.

By the way... if I'm calculating right, Homage should be bringing down the Shattered Hoof Ridge SPP pylon this evening.

[SilentCarto]

I did like Pip, though. She had a nice mix of ruthlessness, innocence, and cynicism while still being idealist that made her a nice POV character. Her mintal thing was really badly handled, though.

How was the Mint-al addiction poorly handled? I don't necessarily disagree, but I'm curious what your specific problems with it were.

[SilentCarto]

Yeah, it just hit me too. Glory's pregnant.

Yeah, this is pretty much exactly what I was worried Pinkie meant...  Sure it's a good thing, but it could also become a huge liability, fast.

Not really. I mean, if this is the case, she's not going to start to show for months yet. She shouldn't even start feeling morning sickness for at least four weeks. Sunshine and Rainbows is approximately a week away, and I fully expect the New Bearers to finish their quest and activate Gardens before the foal is born. The only real downside is BJ getting protective of Glory after she figures it out.

[SilentCarto]

Baseless theory: sexual relations bring joy and relief and escapism. Happiness is very very rare in FoE's world so the population being more open is understandable. Pregnancy brings hope and purpose for someone in a world filled with anarchy and destitution.

So everyone fucking everyone and poppin out babies isn't too far off.

It sounds like a joke, but it's not as absurd as all that. There's probably a strong, widespread sense of "What kind of world is this to bring a foal into?" Then Sunshine and Rainbows happens. Suddenly, there's hope that the world is improving, not just little by little, but in great leaps and bounds. I absolutely anticipate a baby boom about a year after that. And a little while later, all the radiation and taint is cleaned up too, which probably triggers an even bigger one. It's no surprise that Fluttershy's been pressed into service as a teacher a decade later...

(And I'm finally all caught up! Woo!)

[Scienza]

I did like Pip, though. She had a nice mix of ruthlessness, innocence, and cynicism while still being idealist that made her a nice POV character. Her mintal thing was really badly handled, though.

How was the Mint-al addiction poorly handled? I don't necessarily disagree, but I'm curious what your specific problems with it were.

There are a lot of things. Starting with how mint-als have almost no noticeable negative side effects. Sure, there's the brain-degradation, but you never actually see that. It's supposedly there, but Pip is always still her adorable, sarcastic self. When Blackjack takes drugs, you really get the impression that it's fucking up her system. She's coughing up blood, her heart is palpitating, it's all real and visceral.

Then there's the whole "it's highly addictive yet she can relatively-easily break the addiction" thing. The reason why highly-addictive drugs are so destructive is not that they fuck up your system (which they do), it's that it's unbelievably hard to break the addiction once you're hooked. It's not as simple as a loved one telling you to stop and then dumping some pills down the drain, it's much more difficult than that. Even if you're off it, the psychological effects of the addiction will be with you the rest of your life. There's a smidge of that in FoE, but only a smidge.

This all ties into the main root of my issue, which is just how easy it is to break the addiction. All Pip needs to do is go to Helpinghoof and get purged again. There's no withdrawal, no damage, no consequences. If she regresses, it's as simple as just going back to the clinic and getting purged again, which doesn't seem to be that big of a problem since money seems to mean nothing to her anyway. I get that it was like this in the game, but I've always had issues with that too. By making addiction and the side effects of mint-als so trivial, there is no reason that Pip shouldn't use them. She can use them to boost herself to massive charisma, with their almost non-existent side-effects, and when it's all over just purge herself. And you know what? She does. She uses them to convince Red-Eye's forces, justifying their use with the statement that she needed them to win. Not only does this break her promise to quit, this invalidates the whole logic behind the "drugs == bad" message because she doesn't have any long term consequences. She pisses off Velvet (for reasons that are beyond understanding since this universe has the "curedrug.exe" spell), but nothing else happens. She gets cured and everything's just dandy.

[Caoimhe]

Couldn't have said it better myself.

This is one of the issues of paying too much homage to the games it's based on. The games, while pushing realism, are not realistic. Games are an interactive medium with multiple variables at stake driven by player involvement and creating a narrative that is bounded to the logic of the game does not always mesh well, especially with a subject so touchy as drug addiction.

[Guest]

@Scienza
I think part of the problem is that the drugs in Fallout are all kinda Cyberpunk-y - combat drugs, highly addictive and damaging but because the tech to wipe your system clean is so readily available, they become a tool rather than a life, for everyone but the poor. And you still get addicted to them, psychologically, but the side-effect of addiction is basically just that you have to spend money every now and then to clear your bloodstream of the toxins. A "drugs fuck you up m'kay" message thus isn't so simple to deliver, and could have better been done in other ways, like Pip on mintals being different, more manipulative and reckless 'cos she knows she can think her way out of anything (or thinks she can), and her friends calling her out on it, and she keeps finding new ways to hide it... stuff like that, I think.

[WavemasterRyx]

D'awwwww... probably not, since Dash put the orb there, but... d'awwwwww!

Not really. I mean, if this is the case, she's not going to start to show for months yet. She shouldn't even start feeling morning sickness for at least four weeks. Sunshine and Rainbows is approximately a week away, and I fully expect the New Bearers to finish their quest and activate Gardens before the foal is born. The only real downside is BJ getting protective of Glory after she figures it out.

Well thank you, Silent.  But yeah, I know it's not what happened at all, I never thought it would be.

And yes, Blackjack being more protective of Glory would be a big problem.  Not only would the extra attention make her even more of a target, it would go right back to all those issues Glory used to have of not being able to contribute to Blackjack's quest.

-Why do I get the feeling the ending might slightly resemble the ending to Code Geass? Not that that's a bad thing.

How did that end?  I've heard that it's a pretty good anime, but…  Well, I've a friend who had to give up on FoE because, though he enjoyed it, he found mouthguns silly enough to ruin it for him; I seem to have a similar reaction to giant humanoid robots.

Code Geass spoilers:

It's pretty much exactly what Lighthooves is doing, yeah, but I don't think the story as a whole is going to end that way.  Not that I'd have a problem if it did, Code Geass is one of my top 10 favorite anime.  I'm sorry you didn't enjoy it, Hinds.  Though you might try the manga version should you feel the overwhelming urge, it doesn't have any of the giant robots in it, as far as I know. I'm not sure how close the storylines are otherwise though..

[tylertoon2]

Yeah, it just hit me too. Glory's pregnant.

Yeah, this is pretty much exactly what I was worried Pinkie meant...  Sure it's a good thing, but it could also become a huge liability, fast.

Not really. I mean, if this is the case, she's not going to start to show for months yet. She shouldn't even start feeling morning sickness for at least four weeks. Sunshine and Rainbows is approximately a week away, and I fully expect the New Bearers to finish their quest and activate Gardens before the foal is born. The only real downside is BJ getting protective of Glory after she figures it out.

Not only that. But I'm sure this will cause P-21 to have a huge ass breakdown.

[O. Hinds]

-Why do I get the feeling the ending might slightly resemble the ending to Code Geass? Not that that's a bad thing.

How did that end?  I've heard that it's a pretty good anime, but…  Well, I've a friend who had to give up on FoE because, though he enjoyed it, he found mouthguns silly enough to ruin it for him; I seem to have a similar reaction to giant humanoid robots.

Code Geass spoilers:

It's pretty much exactly what Lighthooves is doing, yeah, but I don't think the story as a whole is going to end that way.  Not that I'd have a problem if it did, Code Geass is one of my top 10 favorite anime.  I'm sorry you didn't enjoy it, Hinds.  Though you might try the manga version should you feel the overwhelming urge, it doesn't have any of the giant robots in it, as far as I know.  I'm not sure how close the storylines are otherwise though..

Ah, thanks.

The manga doesn't have the giant robots? Huh; I thought that those were fundamental to the setting. Well, I still have no particular desire to read it, but, if I should ever find myself attracted to some other aspect enough to dive in, I thank you for the information.

[FoolNeim]

-Why do I get the feeling the ending might slightly resemble the ending to Code Geass? Not that that's a bad thing.

How did that end?  I've heard that it's a pretty good anime, but…  Well, I've a friend who had to give up on FoE because, though he enjoyed it, he found mouthguns silly enough to ruin it for him; I seem to have a similar reaction to giant humanoid robots.

Code Geass spoilers:

It's pretty much exactly what Lighthooves is doing, yeah, but I don't think the story as a whole is going to end that way.  Not that I'd have a problem if it did, Code Geass is one of my top 10 favorite anime.  I'm sorry you didn't enjoy it, Hinds.  Though you might try the manga version should you feel the overwhelming urge, it doesn't have any of the giant robots in it, as far as I know.  I'm not sure how close the storylines are otherwise though..

Ah, thanks.

The manga doesn't have the giant robots?  Huh; I thought that those were fundamental to the setting.  Well, I still have no particular desire to read it, but, if I should ever find myself attracted to some other aspect enough to dive in, I thank you for the information.

Never read the manga, but the anime probably could have been done with something other than giant robots and still been mostly the same story. It was an extremely complicated plot with a lot more than just giant robots. Also, in the first of the two seasons, all but two of the piloted robots rolled around on wheels tied to the ground, and couldn't fly or anything, and were thus a little less silly than normal for the genre.

[FoolNeim]

So, finally caught up after a long time. Sorry if this is rambling and dumb.

I... really didn't expect this to be ending so soon. Like until a few chapters ago I figured it'd end around chapter 75-80. Now, it's almost over? X_X

I could understand if the end goal were like, chapter 70-72, but it seems like there are way too many loose ends to wrap up the whole story in 3 chapters (2 even?)

…Oh, is this about that "couple" in the author's notes?  Don't worry; that's not literal, and you're not the only person to get confused by it.

Um, phew.

If it's 7-9+ more chapters like Valikdu said, that certainly leaves a lot more room for resolution. However, in that case I'm kind of surprised that Volume 4 didn't end right after the Unity plot was resolved though, since a major antagonist gets bumped off, a major protagonist dies, and the setting radically changes.

I guess part of the problem with the ending to the original Fallout Equestria were that it seemed like it was building to this huge climax, with this huge cliffhanger in the penultimate chapter, and then the final chapter was really short, and while there was nothing wrong with what was in it, the Gardens of Equestria event happened off-screen, as did the final clash between the Enclave and Little Pip's culled-together resistance group, and we never even found out who the final two reborn Elements of Harmony were.

So all these things that the story seemed to have been building to were simply skipped over. The problem was what it was missing.

I did think Somber covered Lacunae's death a lot better than Kkat covered Steel Hooves', so I hope our author doesn't leave too many loose ends or too many points glossed over like FO:E did. I'm not saying everything needs to be resolved, but there seems to be an awful lot of plot points still dangling as of Chapter 61. I'd think 9-11 more chapters would be about the minimum required to resolve all of it but I'll certainly take 7-9 over 2-3.

[O. Hinds]

Oh, don't pay attention to the volumes at the moment. It was Snipehamster who thought that we needed them in the first place, and when he left, well, they just stopped being maintained. I'm planning to maybe, once PH is over, go back and sort them out, but I don't consider it important enough to do now. That seems like a good suggestion for where to end the volume, though; thanks.

[Caoimhe]

When it's over-over it'd be awesome to commission someone for chapter headers like the final FoE ePub (as long as they aren't spoilers like FoE's).

[Derpmind]

Code Geass spoilers:

Those two main characters must both have quite the messiah complex to believe that would work. Wow. I really don't see how PH could end up like that, but I haven't seen that anime so I wouldn't know. (Is it just me, or are there lots of Japanese stories where characters who want to 'save the world' end up trying to create some kind of crazy planet-wide societal shift?)

However, in that case I'm kind of surprised that Volume 4 didn't end right after the Unity plot was resolved though, since a major antagonist gets bumped off, a major protagonist dies, and the setting radically changes.

That seems like a good suggestion for where to end the volume, though; thanks.

I'm gonna have to strongly disagree here.

Volume Four - Homecoming

The trials of the Wasteland wear everypony down with time, but with shadowy agendas coming to the fore and EC-1101 approaching its final destination, there’s little opportunity to rest. Pursued by the Harbingers, the Remnant, the Enclave, and worse, life just keeps getting harder. And as she faces these challenges, the bearer of Equestria's destiny finds herself doubting the very quest upon which she's embarked.
Still, there's no place like home... right?

See, since Morning Glory's the destined bearer of Equestria's destiny, this volume's not gonna be over till they leave the Enclave again.

Also, that thought some of you just had? That's exactly what I intended to imply. Because it's funny.

[Valikdu]

Those two main characters must both have quite the messiah complex to believe that would work. Wow

Code Geass spoilers:

Eh...
Well, at least they weren't trying to demolish the only functioning agricultural system known to them, right?

[O. Hinds]

I'm gonna have to strongly…

Oh! Oh, yes, that's quite a good point; sorry.

[WavemasterRyx]

Ah, thanks.

The manga doesn't have the giant robots?  Huh; I thought that those were fundamental to the setting.  Well, I still have no particular desire to read it, but, if I should ever find myself attracted to some other aspect enough to dive in, I thank you for the information.

Yeah, as far as I can remember.  I never read the entire thing because I quite enjoyed the giant robots, so I found the manga somewhat lacking in comparison.  And certainly, I just thought I'd point it out for the sake of knowledge, no reason to go out of your way to read it.

Those two main characters must both have quite the messiah complex to believe that would work. Wow. I really don't see how PH could end up like that, but I haven't seen that anime so I wouldn't know. (Is it just me, or are there lots of Japanese stories where characters who want to 'save the world' end up trying to create some kind of crazy planet-wide societal shift?)

Pretty much, heh.

Code Geass spoilers:

Eh...
Well, at least they weren't trying to demolish the only functioning agricultural system known to them, right?

Oh, you...

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