Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

[Caoimhe]

I want to believe.





Expecting a meme pic? Please, I'm sooo above that!

[Moodyman90]

It was either before the move from EqD to here, or soon after we got here. It was meant as a joke, I just can't remember who said it and when.

[O. Hinds]

Wasn't there a joke going around at one point in time that Project Horizons was the actual main story and the original Fallout Equestria was the side fic that just happened to come out first?

Just something that popped into my mind today, no bearings on anything else.

Heh, nice. I'll have to see just how PH ends before I decide how much more than a joke I think it is, probably.

[Vergil]

Dash's cocky, boisterous character fits very well with the tone of PH, so you could pull it off. Replacing her lessens the reveal and the importance of MDW in the story. FoE purists just can't handle any sort of original development, sadly.

This times five billion.

[Evilgidgit]

Whoa, reading that scene with Garnet and Jetstream in Lucidity, I dawned on me that the "teleportation megaspell" Garnet gave Jetstream was actually likely a balefire bomb. And she was sent to Roam to set it off, causing the zebras to fight back, so Garnet, Mr. Horse and whoever else was involved in the big conspiracy to get to Redoubt. Oooh, big WMG forming in my head!  

Okay, Cognitum is the Tokomare which is made of starmetal and contains lots of untapped but dangerous energy; and has a copy of Luna/Nightmare Moon's personality, gained via Project Eternity and a copycat Crusader Mainframe built by Horse, all part of Cogntium's plan to rise as a goddess of stars in a new religious empire, which I believe Garnet mentioned something about in that flashback when Psalm went to kill Mr. Horse.

Goldenblood realised what was going on and secretly built Project Horizons, which I think might be some sort of space weapon or gravity weapon designed to either destroy the Tokomare at the cost of Equestria or gravity pull it out of the Core and then obliterate it with the moon or moonstone, since moonstone can destroy starmetal. Project Horizons is possibly on the moon, hence why the space programme was cancelled so he could build it in secret, and perhaps Marigold was asked to collect moonstone, and lots of it. Another theory is that PH is actually built inside Redoubt. Dr. Trottenheimer had a role in Project Horizon's creation as well, so it may have connections to Project Starfall.

Anyway, the death of Big Macintosh and Fluttershy sending megaspells to the zebras was the gears that Cognitum needed to carry out her endgame, so she had Garnet send Jetstream to Roam to set off a megaspell, in order to get the zebras to retaliate. Jetstream detonated the balefire bomb, and the Last Day happened. Cognitum then played Psalm's devotion to Luna and had Garnet give the order to carry out Project Partypooper to eliminate everyone who was a possible holder of the EC-1101. Though why Mr. Horse was on the target is unknown if he was a willing conspirator or not. Either he was, chickened out and did hide himself in Redoubt, or ended up stuck in Cognitum or the copycat Mainframe in an attempt to survive the balefire holocaust.

As for Goldenblood, he made Gardens of Equestria and Project Horizons to counter Cognitum's plans but since he was an obstacle, he had to be removed, hence why he was arrested and to be executed without a trial or investigation. Horse was then put in charge of the OIA and able to get access to the Projects, including Eternity, which he used to somehow get Luna or Nightmare Moon's personality replicated into the Tokomare. Whatever plans Cognitum has to carry out her desire to make a new empire based around her was put on hold when EC-1011 got stuck in Stable 99. What she actually plans to do with EC-1101 is hard to say. Maybe take control of Horizons, obliterate her Starmetal self, which would likely level much of Equestria with all the energy she has, and then somehow rise again as a fake Luna thanks to her soul jar state gained from Eternity and fulfill her goal to bring about a new empire.

As for Project Horizons itself, I looked over the text on Goldenblood's computer: EC-1101 was required, Ministry credentials were required, the state of Equestria's defensive position was required, and there were checkups on the "Palace", Redoubt and something called Tom, and Spark Flux Capacitors required recharging. Now, Tom was the giant rock Rarity thought was a diamond in Return of Harmony, so maybe it actually is a giant diamond or rock, made of moonstones. And the spark flux capacitors, are the generators that produce some sort of Death Star laser beam that will fire the moonstones at Cognitum and blow her up - thus Project Horizons may be a giant space laser! Goldenblood decided Equestria had to die to save it from the Tokomare, something which Vanity mentioned, so he made PH and intended for the Palace (possible Canterlot Castle) and Redoubt to act as shelters for himself, Fluttershy and other characters.

And finally, after Blackjack says no to activating Project Horizons, it said "Project auto-activation" in effect if EC-1011 fails. So does this mean Project Horizons is on a countdown until it activates? And what does "EDS" mean?

That's my two cents on it. Phew!

[Caoimhe]

I really want to know what Pinkie's "Congradulations" premonition was about. P-21 somehow make her preggers despite the implant possibly? :O

That's some speculation for sure.

vvv pfffft oh no duh, that makes more sense. I'm crazy stupid this week.

[Vergil]

I really want to know what Pinkie's "Congradulations" premonition was about. P-21 somehow make her preggers despite the implant possibly? :O

That's some speculation for sure.

I figured it was either that or Glory, who you know...doesn't have one.

[CD]

I'm rather late with my comments on the chapter, but I loved it. The sense of dread and foreboding you should feel in Fallout just came back here. For a moment, I actually thought Afterburner would kill Glory, as the chapter was drawing to an end and could get a cliffhanger. To remind us this is Fallout: Equestria, where anyone can die. I admit I am actually slightly disappointed she survived, but maybe she just needs to be alive for when we find out who betrayed Blackjack, because I have my suspicions about Glory.

As for Rainbow Dash as Mare Do Well, it's got that poetic element that she'd be the one to take up the guise of her friends' scheme (don't get me wrong, I still despise that episode!). Her cunning as a superhero yet naivety to Lighthooves seem well in character. And it opens up some new possibilities, also for works derivative of Project Horizons' canon. I want to see how her mission inside Shadowbolt tower goes, and if she'll survive until the end. There is definetely a risk factor that she suffers final death as the Doomsday clock ticks and Blackjack must finish what Rainbow couldn't do, and/or Dash having to pass the mantle on to a deserving pony.

Why, oh why does a month have to last 4 whole weeks? I want to know how Thunderhead makes it through the attack, if Glory is the traitor and how Lighthooves ends up.

[Scienza]

Wasn't there a joke going around at one point in time that Project Horizons was the actual main story and the original Fallout Equestria was the side fic that just happened to come out first?

Just something that popped into my mind today, no bearings on anything else.

PH is weird in that it's a convoluted conspiracy theory which somehow makes more sense and answers more questions than the straight answer.

It also just has a better cast of characters. Not that FoE's was that bad, but I really hated Velvet Remedy. It wasn't that she was a terrible person, or that she was a badly written character. It was just that, like with Fluttershy, you got the impression that Kkat really liked Velvet, so every moment with her was about how goshdarn fucking perfect she was. PH deals with characters a bit differently, in that they're all horribly screwed up. They make jokes about it all the time, but they literally are a walking therapy group.

[Caoimhe]

VR irritated me because she kept saying "medical pony" when it should have been "medic" or "doctor" or "nurse." "Medical pony" sounds very grating. I actually think her character would have been improved by making her MORE grating and prissy or at least have more lines. She's a distant relative of Rarity and Sweebles, use them as a base personality for her!

One of vanilla FoE's big problems is that while the characters do have distinct personalities, rarely do they show them.

Homage has too many different contrasting personalities. I initially though she was supposed to be manic depressive with codependency issues and PTSD - which would have made for a great character, but nothing like this was really fleshed out, so her breakdown at the end just seems forced and weird.

Clams is probably the best written character next to RedEye but his real character development comes too late and is too forced.

All of Steelhooves' development is based on an entire separate character he used to be and "past guilt" is such a tired cliche.

Pippers has no real personality whatsoever and as a result I sort of gave up on caring about her all together on my second read through. Her mintal addiction was handled terribly in my opinion (and I'm sure others agree). It's amazing how in that one scene in PH where Blackjack races to get to Flank the effects of ponydrugs are demonstrated 100% better than FoE ever did. Pip is such a better character in PH because having her contrasted with Blackjack shows how much of a little goodygoody twerp she really is. Blackjack's utter confusion at her also being the Stable Dweller makes so much sense for the audience.

PH's cast is a walking therepy group, but it makes sense because of the horrible world they inhabit and have the Wasteland experience in them. This is how normal people would be in a world where everything is corrupt and violent. Even for non stable ponies since they grew up surrounded by death and betrayal. BJ being horrified by the mere existence of sky was one of my main clinchers for wanting to continue with PH because it was an absolutely perfect reaction to the situation that never existed in FoE.

Geez, I could fart about the shortcomings of FoE all day. Too bad most folks are either "this shit sucks lol all dem words" or "FoE IS AN UNTOUCHABLE MASTERPIECE HOW DARE." It's really too bad Pip had to be the "bringer of light" (ugh) because it made a distinct end to such an engrossing setting but KKat probably never expected or intended for this to get so big.

[SilentCarto]

Ah, thank you.  Some of your errors were already spotted and corrected, but others had not been.  Your corrections to the EME were also quite appreciated.

I'm being slow today... what is EME?

A scrambler, a beamed transmission rather than a broadcast, and/or low power, I expect.

Well, a tightbeam transmission would require some kind of radome-style transmitter that could move to follow the target, or at least a phased-array transmitter that more or less covers a full sphere. It seems more likely that it's broadcast, given that Cog is also listening in and watching. I would find it strange if her transmission were scrambled, though, given that it's interfacing with BJ's ears which do not, presumably, share the encryption scheme. And if Cog could hack BJ's body to that level, you'd think she would just walk her right on over to the Core and be done with it.

Really, Stratus' complicity excuses everything. Since he was waiting outside while Dawn did her thing, it wouldn't be strange to think he had jammers set up as well, ostensibly to prevent BJ from punching any messages out, but also to white-out Dawn's monologue. And Cog's voice, too, assuming Dawn was acting as a relay station for it.

[Scienza]

Shortened:

I agree with you, man. I like that they're a walking therapy group. It's certainly more realistic and entertaining (though they are a bit too upbeat sometimes).

I think one of the main things about the original that bothers me was how it worshipped Fluttershy for being so goddamn awesome. It's very similar to my complaints about VR, in that constantly treating them as untouchable perfection makes you realize all the more how imperfect they are. It actually made me realize how Flutters is the weakest character in the show as well as the fic. PH does carry some of this over, but at least it's not as crazy.

I did like Pip, though. She had a nice mix of ruthlessness, innocence, and cynicism while still being idealist that made her a nice POV character. Her mintal thing was really badly handled, though.

[SilentCarto]

-Boo can play, and win, at TicTacToe really well... fffffff PINKIE PIE! THIS EXPLAINS EVERYTHING, THE TWITCHES, THE RANDOMNESS, THE TICTACTOE SUCCESS! Recall her victories at tic tac toe on the mountain. Yes, this is all the evidence I need. :|

Well... just one little problem...

I moved closer still and saw a second light, a soft orange point that sang the other sound. And then a third was born, a cheery pink. Another, majestic purple...

Pinkie confirmed dead and kickin' it in the afterlife.

[Caoimhe]

Shortened:

I agree with you, man. I like that they're a walking therapy group. It's certainly more realistic and entertaining (though they are a bit too upbeat sometimes).

I think one of the main things about the original that bothers me was how it worshipped Fluttershy for being so goddamn awesome. It's very similar to my complaints about VR, in that constantly treating them as untouchable perfection makes you realize all the more how imperfect they are. It actually made me realize how Flutters is the weakest character in the show as well as the fic. PH does carry some of this over, but at least it's not as crazy.

I did like Pip, though. She had a nice mix of ruthlessness, innocence, and cynicism while still being idealist that made her a nice POV character. Her mintal thing was really badly handled, though.

What doesn't make sense to me is that if the Mane 6 were so important, why didn't they teach about them more in Stable schools? They knew about Celestia and Luna after all. It would have been interesting for stable ponies to come out with the knowledge of the Mane 6 as childhood fairy tale lessons on how to be a good friend and then learn about all the horrible stuff they did.

This contrasts how utopian the actual show is. Stable ponies could have gone to school learning life lessons almost exactly like the show, which (in theory) would whitewash the negative stuff. Woulda made for a good allegory on how kids tv is focused too much on positive things (like pre G4).

[Scienza]

I could be wrong about this, but I think it ties into just how bitter the CMC were. They repeatedly talked about how they wished that they could go back to their childhood world beore the ministries, so it kinda makes sense that they would exclude the later changes from the education of the new world.

[SilentCarto]

In regards to Cognitum: My personal theory is that Cognitum is Mr. Horse fused with the Tokomare, though why Cognitum is talking like Luna is unknown? Maybe Horse copied Luna's personality or something.

Well, if you recall, when Horse was showing off his ripoff of the Crusader mind-copy equipment, he managed to get the helmet on "Eclipse's" head for an instant. Stuff instantly exploded, presumably from trying to copy millennia of experience all at once, but we never actually saw him wipe that imprint like he did the others.

I am curious as to whom Rainbow Dash killed that got Pinkie angry about.

I don't think it really matters. The point is, Pinkie doesn't want to think of her friend as a killer. Sure, she goes into combat all the time, and that's only the missions the public knows aobut, but it's like the difference between hearing that your friend shot someone, and having it happen right in front of you.

Oh, whoa! What if Jetstream went off to Roam and actually set off a megaspell, thus kicking off the zebras' retaliation!

Yup, sounds like it. Which begs the question: who would actually want to start a nuclear war?

Perhaps a better question, not unrelated: When was the last time anyone saw Mr. Horse in person? I'm beginning to have this sneaking suspicion that Cog replaced him at some point, and the last few weeks were spent with the OIA under the direct command of a cold, calculating computer running a corrupted copy of Luna's brain.

Hell, for that matter, he might have even been around, with Cog placing orders in his name while he played with his Tokomare and Sweetie Bot.

...for that matter, who's to say Sweetie Bot wasn't under Cog's direct control, designed specifically to keep him distracted until she was ready to end the world?

[Stringtheory]

In regards to Cognitum: My personal theory is that Cognitum is Mr. Horse fused with the Tokomare, though why Cognitum is talking like Luna is unknown? Maybe Horse copied Luna's personality or something.

Well, if you recall, when Horse was showing off his ripoff of the Crusader mind-copy equipment, he managed to get the helmet on "Eclipse's" head for an instant. Stuff instantly exploded, presumably from trying to copy millennia of experience all at once, but we never actually saw him wipe that imprint like he did the others.

I am curious as to whom Rainbow Dash killed that got Pinkie angry about.

For the first, I don't think it really matters. The point is, Pinkie doesn't want to think of her friend as a killer. Sure, she goes into combat all the time, and that's only the missions the public knows aobut, but it's like the difference between hearing that your friend shot someone, and having it happen right in front of you.

Oh, whoa! What if Jetstream went off to Roam and actually set off a megaspell, thus kicking off the zebras' retaliation!

Yup, sounds like it. Which begs the question: who would actually want to start a nuclear war?

Perhaps a better question, not unrelated: When was the last time anyone saw Mr. Horse in person? I'm beginning to have this sneaking suspicion that Cog replaced him at some point, and the last few weeks were spent with the OIA under the direct command of a cold, calculating computer running a corrupted copy of Luna's brain.

Hell, for that matter, he might have even been around, with Cog placing orders in his name while he played with his Tokomare and Sweetie Bot.

...for that matter, who's to say Sweetie Bot wasn't under Cog's direct control, designed specifically to keep him distracted until she was ready to end the world?

IT'S CONSPIRACIES ALL THE WAY DOWN!

[SilentCarto]

This quote seems all too appropriate given that this image popped up in the Fanart thread a few days ago.

Image:

That reminds me, BJ needs to work out how to reactivate her fingers already.

[O. Hinds]

I'm being slow today... what is EME?

Early Modern English

Really, Stratus' complicity excuses everything. Since he was waiting outside while Dawn did her thing, it wouldn't be strange to think he had jammers set up as well, ostensibly to prevent BJ from punching any messages out, but also to white-out Dawn's monologue. And Cog's voice, too, assuming Dawn was acting as a relay station for it.

Ahhh, yes, that makes sense!

[Somber]

What I am contemplating is two MDW appearances, while blackjack was alone.  One would be in chapter 45.  Another would be in chapter 51.  So I'd be keeping the changes away from anyone doing translations in the first 1-33 chapters.  Then I'd have to tweak 60.  Then I'd go on.

The other thing I have to account for is why didn't Rainbow Dash go and join Pip when she took down the Enclave.  I might be able to get it to work.  Maybe...

[O. Hinds]

Well, based on what you've told me, I expect that Rainbow Dash would certainly have enough to keep her busy elsewhere at the time. And there's also swicked's explanation.

I had an additional reply, but further research has revealed that it's spoilery; I'll email it.

[SilentCarto]

I figured it was either that or Glory, who you know...doesn't have one.

 
Yeah, it just hit me too. Glory's pregnant.

[WavemasterRyx]

What I am contemplating is two MDW appearances, while blackjack was alone.

While I'm sure it won't make everyone happy, I think that should be a decent solution. I hope you'll be able to get it done without too much more trouble.

Yeah, it just hit me too. Glory's pregnant.

Yeah, this is pretty much exactly what I was worried Pinkie meant... Sure it's a good thing, but it could also become a huge liability, fast.

[Caoimhe]

For whatever reason, elderly ghoul MDW-power-armoured Rainbow Dash napping on a cloud floating by among the chaos of the Final Battle seems completely in character to me.

[Scienza]

For whatever reason, elderly ghoul MDW-power-armoured Rainbow Dash napping on a cloud floating by among the chaos of the Final Battle seems completely in character to me.

Speaking of in-character moments, one little thing that Somber could add would be MDW being really focused on Glory while she was still Rainbow Dash. Y'know, examining her while she sleeps, running a hoof through her mane, etc. It'd seem really creepy initially, but in context, it'd make sense when you realize that it's Rainbow Dash looking at, in effect, her younger self, before the war and the Ministries tore her away from her friends and drove the world into hell.

It also depends on whether RD survives or not, but I'd love to see her meet up with Derpy at some point in the future.

[Technowolf]

For whatever reason, elderly ghoul MDW-power-armoured Rainbow Dash napping on a cloud floating by among the chaos of the Final Battle seems completely in character to me.

Speaking of in-character moments, one little thing that Somber could add would be MDW being really focused on Glory while she was still Rainbow Dash. Y'know, examining her while she sleeps, running a hoof through her mane, etc. It'd seem really creepy initially, but in context, it'd make sense when you realize that it's Rainbow Dash looking at, in effect, her younger self, before the war and the Ministries tore her away from her friends and drove the world into hell.

It also depends on whether RD survives or not, but I'd love to see her meet up with Derpy at some point in the future.

There's also Spike and Fluttershy.


Also, am I crazy for wanting to think that BOTH BJ and Glory are pregnant?

[Guest]

@Technowolf
Less crazy than wanting to think P-21 is pregnant, surely. =P

[Scienza]

@Technowolf
Less crazy than wanting to think P-21 is pregnant, surely. =P

The answer is obvious:

Dealer is pregnant.

[Downloaded Skill]

You get pregnant! And you get pregnant! EVERYONE GETS PREGNANT!

[LordsServant]

You get pregnant! And you get pregnant! EVERYONE GETS PREGNANT!

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