Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

[Frost]

Almost no one who commits a crime expects to be caught.
Those who might consider committing a crime,though,may be discouraged by the threat prison time poses.
That is how the prison system discourages crime.

Those who are caught and put in prison, though, are very likely to commit crimes once more once they're out. They come out, as mentioned, tougher, more connected, and with virtually no possibility of work beyond menial labor.

[RoboRed]

swickedbait:

[Scyto Harmony]

[Redacted]

[Harmony Ltd.]

I'm not exactly arguing with you guys, FYI. You just seem to be thinking about this problem rationally instead of emotionally.
Logic doesn't stand up against a crying widow in our legal system.

I got that, no worry.

I just wanted to advance the rational arguments instead of some bullshit, feel-goody "because it's bad" emotionally loaded crap.



Anyway, have a surrealist short :

"The External World":

[Harmony Ltd.]

I'm not exactly arguing with you guys, FYI. You just seem to be thinking about this problem rationally instead of emotionally.
Logic doesn't stand up against a crying widow in our legal system.

You think the Death Penalty is more logical than emotional? The fuck is wrong with you? Nobody deserves to die. Nobody.

Man, this pissed me off so much I broke my rule of not getting into opinionated debates.

Edit: I also didn't read your post right - it got reversed in my head. But my point still stands!

He isn't arguing for it. Just talking about the reason why the system is currently set up as it is ; and that is because the current judicial system is only "vengeance" disguised under a thin veneer of civilization.

[Scyto Harmony]

He isn't arguing for it. Just talking about the reason why the system is currently set up as it is ; and that is because the current judicial system is only "vengeance" disguised under a thin veneer of civilization.

Which is why I removed my post - my brain was terrible at reading and making logical conclusions.

[cb5]

I'm not exactly arguing with you guys, FYI. You just seem to be thinking about this problem rationally instead of emotionally.
Logic doesn't stand up against a crying widow in our legal system.

You think the Death Penalty is more logical than emotional? The fuck is wrong with you? Nobody deserves to die. Nobody.

Man, this pissed me off so much I broke my rule of not getting into opinionated debates.

Edit: I also didn't read your post right - it got reversed in my head. But my point still stands!

Our entire legal system isn't logical when you think about it.  The purpose of a criminal system is to keep people committing crimes again and yet jails act like businesses and don't actually attempt to reform individuals so that criminals will be repeat offenders.  We actively allow companies to view even the most mundane of criminal offenses thus preventing even low level criminals from becoming upstanding citizens in our society.  We determine the punishment for criminals not by logic or how much damage they do, but by what we feel the most.  We often punish victimless crimes on the basis of it offending us morally the most.  Even within classifications of the different types of crimes extremely similar criminal offenses are punished with massively different punishments.  We openly list criminals so that they can't reintegrate into society.  Even the mentally handicapped or insane are punished as well when they need therapy.

Punishment for crimes need to be according to how much damage was done.

[Harmony Ltd.]

"victimless crime"

there is, by definition, no such thing

[cb5]

"victimless crime"

there is, by definition, no such thing

Jaywalking in a empty street.

[Harmony Ltd.]

This is not a crime. This is, at worst, a misdemeanor.

[cb5]

This is not a crime. This is, at worst, a misdemeanor.

A misdemeanor is a crime, but that's besides the point. Up until 2003 the usa had anti-sodomy laws. Wouldn't sodomy be a victimless crime? There's all kinds of stupid shit going on in the usa legally.

[Guest]

"victimless crime"

there is, by definition, no such thing

Jaywalking in a empty street.

You are making the police officer a victim by making him leave off napping to come arrest you, not to mention your poor victims the taxpayers, who must pay the salary of the policeman and for your trial, you monster. :D Why could you not just wait for the little walking man to appear in the sacred signal like you were taught as a child? Wherefore this heresy?

[RoboRed]

camobait:

[Harmony Ltd.]

I guess the fact I'm going in from the point of view of the French legal system doesn't help this discussion.

It remains that from any sane perspective, a victimless crime cannot exist.

[cb5]

I guess the fact I'm going in from the point of view of the French legal system doesn't help this discussion.

It remains that from any sane perspective, a victimless crime cannot exist.

I wish we had your legal system, cause in the usa you're more likely to get thrown in jail for a victimless crime or not actually doing a crime than you are of actually committing murder.  What I mean by that is half of the usa's inmates were arrested on drug charges(a lot of them being pot), a third of minority inmates are years later to be found innocent and such.  The usa's legal system is so bad that the reason why the death penalty is going out of the window isn't cause people aren't adamant about it anymore, but because we have such a bad record with cross contamination and such that there's people that have been executed that never met the victim in their life.  Your average coroner's autopsy table in the usa is so horribly contaminated that you really do have a reason to worry about one day just waking up with the police busting through your door to arrest you for a murder of someone you've never seen before.  Oh don't even get me started on rape.  In several states not only is raping men not recognized as a crime, but we have states where rape isn't even recognized as a crime at all. Up until Obama expanded the definition of rape depending on what state you were in you could rape people without any fear of going to prison.

That is how bad the usa legal system is.

[Harmony Ltd.]

I guess the fact I'm going in from the point of view of the French legal system doesn't help this discussion.

To elaborate, in the French legal system, as far as I understand it, charges are tiered in two groups depending on their severity :

- "Délits" (misdemeanors) : things that deserve to be punished by the law, but that are not severe enough to be judged to be "crimes"
- "Crimes" : anything that's too severe to be counted as a misdemeanor.

"victimless crimes" would be misdemeanors. By definition, as soon as there is a victim, there is a crime.

[cb5]

I guess the fact I'm going in from the point of view of the French legal system doesn't help this discussion.

To elaborate, in the French legal system, as far as I understand it, charges are tiered in two groups depending on their severity :

- "Délits" (misdemeanors) : things that deserve to be punished by the law, but that are not severe enough to be judged to be "crimes"
- "Crimes" : anything that's too severe to be counted as a misdemeanor.

"victimless crimes" would be misdemeanors. By definition, as soon as there is a victim, there is a crime.

American legal system in a nutshell: "EVERYONE is a criminal out to get you so fuck dna evidence, fingerprint evidence, eye witness testimony, alibis, photographic evidence, digital evidence, bullet forensics, autopsy reports, blood splatter reports, and first responder testimony you're going to prison cause we think we have built up enough of a case"

[Harmony Ltd.]

I just wanted to advance the rational arguments instead of some bullshit, feel-goody "because it's bad" emotionally loaded crap.

Hahahaha! Really? XD
Tell me, what crimes have you been the victim of? :P

None, as I live a privileged and sheltered life, the same I hope everyone could share. [*]

In any case, my main point was simply this: If you're starting any discussion regarding what something "should" be, you really ought to start out with addressing why it is as it is, as that is usually the thing that really needs to change first.

A valid point indeed.



[*] took that ACE test thingy (http://acestudy.org/), got a perfact zero as my score.

[cb5]

You are a very angry rant-y person.

You have to admit having a third of our minority inmates later found out to be innocent is fucking ridiculous. The police could not find a criminal if someone was getting mugged in front of them.

[Frost]

You are a very angry rant-y person.

But, hey, at least he's giving us good advice that's not been said yet and being constructive in the discuss-oh, wait.

[brony all alone]

you wanna see a movie about prison. watch fortress. its a GOOD movie. its a little bit sci-fi but still a good prison movie. one day, the world wont need prisons, that is my 3rd greatest goal.

[cb5]

You are a very angry rant-y person.

But, hey, at least he's giving us good advice that's not been said yet and being constructive in the discuss-oh, wait.

To be fair the reason why the police piss me off is that for years they knew my mom was being abused and didn't give a shit. Even after her nearly being murdered by her ex-spouse and having bruise marks on her neck they didn't give a shit. The number of times I had called the cops to have them throw his ass in jail for attempted murder and them showing up telling me it's not their job to interfere in marital disputes really pisses me off.

It's not just me either. My old friend his dad raped his mom and beat her and the cops did nothing.

Someone else I knew as a child was raped for years by her dad and the cops again did nothing.

My sister was raped as a teenager and the cops did nothing.

America: Where marital abuse, rape, attempted murder and such doesn't get you thrown in jail.

[Frost]

You are a very angry rant-y person.

But, hey, at least he's giving us good advice that's not been said yet and being constructive in the discuss-oh, wait.

*snip*

Again, you've yet to add anything to the discussion. You're stating more vehemently what has already been established (albeit using the most extreme examples possible, but that seems to be your go-to method of arguing regardless)

[Harmony Ltd.]

I just wanted to advance the rational arguments instead of some bullshit, feel-goody "because it's bad" emotionally loaded crap.

Hahahaha! Really? XD
Tell me, what crimes have you been the victim of? :P

None, as I live a privileged and sheltered life, the same I hope everyone could share.

You are rediculous X)

you may call me a dreamer

but i'm not the only one

[Frost]

you may call me a dreamer

but i'm not the only one

To quote a great hero of mine:

"You may call me a dreamer, but I'm not."

[Harmony Ltd.]

be able to control human behavior

fuck no

or be able to identify genetic tendencies toward violence at an early-enough stage to abort.

strangely enough, only the poors and racial minority will seem to show these "genetic traits"

[Frost]

[*]took that ACE test thingy (http://acestudy.org/), got a perfact zero as my score.

[*]
Just looked at that. I guess I get the same score, but only because they only count people of your own household.
How very odd.

[*]
I love how the test only asks about male-on-female abuse. You know, because female-on-male abuse is a total myth that never happens anywhere.

[Frost]

or be able to identify genetic tendencies toward violence at an early-enough stage to abort.

strangely enough, only the poors and racial minority will seem to show these "genetic traits"

One must also point out the irony in "kill fetuses to prevent violence"

I make this remark at the risk of inciting an abortion-fueled flame war, but that's not my intent. If it happens anyway, well.... I'll step back and ready some popcorn.

[Tytan]

I just finished playing Beyond Two Souls.

Fucking. Awesome.

Next to zero replay value, but the story is amazing.

[Harmony Ltd.]

or be able to identify genetic tendencies toward violence at an early-enough stage to abort.

strangely enough, only the poors and racial minority will seem to show these "genetic traits"

Ever seen the movie Gattaca?

Yes.

Eugenics is rooted in Classism and Racism, a point that movie helps show across.

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