Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

[cb5]

One of the things is that we've also kinda already been to Alaska, albeit in a pre-war sim. I'd rather see an entirely new setting rather than an updated version of Operation Anchorage.

If you're really set on the whole cold-weather survival thing, the annexed Canada would probably be a more interesting setting.

Ah, yes, Fallout: Ontario. The Raiders walk up and politely ask if you'd like to give them your things and let them rape you, the law-keeping vigilantes kindly ask them to stop (while, of course, riding horses) and the Enclave doesn't so much poison water and broadcast propaganda as they do fix elections and try to dodge letting the Enclave to the south dragging them into things.

As funny as this way that is actually a good point.  Alaska was massively important in the war and whatever survived would be ungodly more difficult to put down than your average raider.  Canada on the other hand would not have been nearly as important and would make about as much sense as Fallout: Oklahoma.

Fallout: Alaska would have factions who never got the memo that the war ended and would have continued the war constantly for the entire two centuries in the freezing cold and nuclear winter.  Even the common raider would be near fucking impossible to put down cause the only difference between them and the brotherhood and chinese remnants is that they realized the war ended.

Imagine a game where the brotherhood faction literally thinks that the usa still exists and that the chinese remnants still think china exists and fighting for those two centuries not stopping ever cause they don't believe anyone that says the war is over believing they were "just" cut off from their allies.

[Ketchup]

One of the things is that we've also kinda already been to Alaska, albeit in a pre-war sim. I'd rather see an entirely new setting rather than an updated version of Operation Anchorage.

If you're really set on the whole cold-weather survival thing, the annexed Canada would probably be a more interesting setting.

Ah, yes, Fallout: Ontario. The Raiders walk up and politely ask if you'd like to give them your things and let them rape you, the law-keeping vigilantes kindly ask them to stop (while, of course, riding horses) and the Enclave doesn't so much poison water and broadcast propaganda as they do fix elections and try to dodge letting the Enclave to the south dragging them into things.

Gotta watch out for deathmoose and radbeavers.

Or a Fallout: Australia. No winter survival, but everything would just want to kill you, with an extra head or two. Giant crocodiles, giant mosquitoes, giant spiders and giant snakes. All sorts of fun.

[Frost]

That's not a Fallout game, though, that's just slapping an extra head on things in normal Australia.

[CamoBadger]

One of the things is that we've also kinda already been to Alaska, albeit in a pre-war sim. I'd rather see an entirely new setting rather than an updated version of Operation Anchorage.

If you're really set on the whole cold-weather survival thing, the annexed Canada would probably be a more interesting setting.

Ah, yes, Fallout: Ontario. The Raiders walk up and politely ask if you'd like to give them your things and let them rape you, the law-keeping vigilantes kindly ask them to stop (while, of course, riding horses) and the Enclave doesn't so much poison water and broadcast propaganda as they do fix elections and try to dodge letting the Enclave to the south dragging them into things.

Gotta watch out for deathmoose and radbeavers.

Or a Fallout: Australia. No winter survival, but everything would just want to kill you, with an extra head or two. Giant crocodiles, giant mosquitoes, giant spiders and giant snakes. All sorts of fun.

Ah yes, truly we need a game to rival Dark Souls in making players want to burn their gaming platforms.

[Katarn]

Not all Fallout fans could deal with 'I'm not an unstoppable killing machine?' thingy, in that case :)

[cb5]

That's not a Fallout game, though, that's just slapping an extra head on things in normal Australia.

[Harmony Ltd.]

Yeah, somewhere else  Ialready discussed the possibility of a Fallout: 'Straya, cunt!

We came to the conclusion that their local equivalent of molerats would be fucking deathclaws by comparison with the mainland US' fauna.

Also, wait 'till you meet the Dropbears.


But more seriously, Fallout is all about the Americana, so setting it out of North America [*]would break one of the central theme of the story, aesthetically speaking.

[*]: Canada had been annexed ten years before the bombs, and from what I get Mexico was pretty much a colony to the US.

[Frost]

In all seriousness, I'd be very interested in a Fallout game where you survive by wits, skill and strategy rather than just "Your numbers are higher than his numbers", especially one that had more varied, smooth and organic combat (a la Dark Souls) rather than the clunkiness inherited from Elder Scrolls.

Keep in mind, until my shitty computer stops fucking itself in the ass every time I try to fire Dark Souls up, I'm going off second-hand reports here.

[Ketchup]

I immediately regret making that joke.

[Scienza]

As funny as this way that is actually a good point.  Alaska was massively important in the war and whatever survived would be ungodly more difficult to put down than your average raider.  Canada on the other hand would not have been nearly as important and would make about as much sense as Fallout: Oklahoma.

Fallout: Alaska would have factions who never got the memo that the war ended and would have continued the war constantly for the entire two centuries in the freezing cold and nuclear winter.  Even the common raider would be near fucking impossible to put down cause the only difference between them and the brotherhood and chinese remnants is that they realized the war ended.

Imagine a game where the brotherhood faction literally thinks that the usa still exists and that the chinese remnants still think china exists and fighting for those two centuries not stopping ever cause they don't believe anyone that says the war is over believing they were "just" cut off from their allies.

The thing is that Canada is extremely important to the in-universe US, possibly more so than Alaska. Remember that the US did drive the Chinese out of Alaska, which is why they have the memorial in DC. On the other hand, the Annexation of Canada is arguably one of the greatest atrocities that the Falloutverse USA commits (other than blowing up the world), and Canadian resistance is constant up until said blowing up of the world. Seeing how the US annexation affected pre-war and post-war Canada would be fascinating. Hell, you could probably just include Alaska anyway, since the borders would have ceased to exist once Canada became a US territory.

It's also kinda why the isolated Brotherhood thing doesn't really work since there would have been countless communication lines through the Canadian frontier to the Anchorage Front Line. On the other hand, I could see a bunch of Enclave remnants getting some really long-term revenge on Chinese remnant forces, who would have been utterly cut off from their homeland. Throw in some Canadians finally getting their hate on (because the nicest people are always the craziest inside), and you've got an interesting mix of pre-war and post-war ideologies.

[cb5]

I immediately regret making that joke.

Imagine if instead of deathclaws there were deathclock spiders. Spiders the size of a 18 wheeler.

[Scienza]

I immediately regret making that joke.

Imagine if instead of deathclaws there were deathclock spiders.  Spiders the size of a 18 wheeler.

This reminds me of this image, which literally destroyed my childhood.

Nightmares:

[cb5]

I immediately regret making that joke.

Imagine if instead of deathclaws there were deathclock spiders.  Spiders the size of a 18 wheeler.

This reminds me of this image, which literally destroyed my childhood.

Nightmares:

I guess it's the new flavor, "crunchy center".

[CamoBadger]

I immediately regret making that joke.

Imagine if instead of deathclaws there were deathclock spiders.  Spiders the size of a 18 wheeler.

This reminds me of this image, which literally destroyed my childhood.

Nightmares:

Nope, not gonna open that.

[Moodyman90]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Enclave is the remnants of the US government and big business owners who, until Fallout 3, was mainly constrained to the West Coast same as the Brotherhood, who themselves is what's left of the US Military. The Enclave seem to be doing their own thing wherever they have an intact base at, but the Brotherhood are nearly all from the West Coast and eventually expanded from there.
The Brotherhood from 3 was from the West Coast but made it all the way East, and the same is true for the chapters featured in the Tactics games, which I'm probably wrong about as well is canon in that they exist but for the most part the games are glossed over and not really taken into the lore as a whole.

So, while you could have a Brotherhood like faction in Canada, unless it's stated a Brotherhood party went up there and found some more remnants of the US military that survived that long it wouldn't really be The Brotherhood of Steel.

That is, if I'm right on my facts and not talking out my ass.

[RoboRed]

Nope, not gonna open that.

It's the dead spider in the oreo. I know for damn sure you've already seen that pic.

[Harmony Ltd.]

I'm not sure I understand why so many people are afraid of spiders.

Though admittedly the spiders in my house are only a quarter the size of my hand and are content just to hang there in the corners and kill mosquitoes. I like them. They're our organic anti-mosquito measure.

In fact, I have a "crush-on-sight" policy with all the bugs I see inside the house (especially the roaches and those fucking centipedes), except the spiders.


Why all the arachnophobia ?

[Moodyman90]

Some people are just scared of them Harmony. Just like how some people are scared of snakes, clowns, heights and other things. 

I can kinda understand it. Potentially deadly bites, all those eyes and legs, fuzzy, some of them can get really huge.

Me? Meh, spiders are alright. Some of them can be quite cute and cool looking. But people like Camo can't stand them.

[Frost]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Enclave is the remnants of the US government and big business owners who, until Fallout 3, was mainly constrained to the West Coast same as the Brotherhood, who themselves is what's left of the US Military. The Enclave seem to be doing their own thing wherever they have an intact base at, but the Brotherhood are nearly all from the West Coast and eventually expanded from there.
The Brotherhood from 3 was from the West Coast but made it all the way East, and the same is true for the chapters featured in the Tactics games, which I'm probably wrong about as well is canon in that they exist but for the most part the games are glossed over and not really taken into the lore as a whole.

So, while you could have a Brotherhood like faction in Canada, unless it's stated a Brotherhood party went up there and found some more remnants of the US military that survived that long it wouldn't really be The Brotherhood of Steel.

That is, if I'm right on my facts and not talking out my ass.

The Enclave was, even Pre-War, a conspiracy existing within the U.S. government and is responsible for a lot of the Fallout universe's atrocities, and deliberately orchestrated the Vault program as psychological experiments to test the viability of generation ships for eventual off-world colonization. They eventually realized it wasn't viable and turned their attention to groundside matters. 

In Fo2, they had low numbers but were extremely skilled, tough opponents who were capable of subtle, intricate plotting (and planned to poison the water supply, if I remember correctly.) And that same faction makes a come-back in New Vegas, and helps make the individual soldiers of the Enclave less two-dimensional and establishes them as, forgive my Tropese, punch-clock villains serving an admittedly monstrous and selfishly-intentioned (not to mention supremacist) power

Fo3, in part of its aversion to lore consistency and creativity, just made them a massive horde of armored Nazis that came East because reasons.

[Scienza]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Enclave is the remnants of the US government and big business owners who, until Fallout 3, was mainly constrained to the West Coast same as the Brotherhood, who themselves is what's left of the US Military. The Enclave seem to be doing their own thing wherever they have an intact base at, but the Brotherhood are nearly all from the West Coast and eventually expanded from there.
The Brotherhood from 3 was from the West Coast but made it all the way East, and the same is true for the chapters featured in the Tactics games, which I'm probably wrong about as well is canon in that they exist but for the most part the games are glossed over and not really taken into the lore as a whole.

So, while you could have a Brotherhood like faction in Canada, unless it's stated a Brotherhood party went up there and found some more remnants of the US military that survived that long it wouldn't really be The Brotherhood of Steel.

That is, if I'm right on my facts and not talking out my ass.

Aye. The main difference between the Brotherhood and the Enclave is that the Enclave sees itself as the US Government (the sucky Falloutverse one that shot all the Canadians) and the Brotherhood just stopped caring. Now, you're probably going to see a lot of Brotherhood-esque factions up there (since a lot of soldiers deserted when they started shooting all the Canadians), but you're probably not going to see real Brotherhood or real die-hard 'Muricans, since 200 years is a long time to keep caring when you don't have anything making you care. Why I bring up the Enclave, is that a) when they got their snooty asses kicked, they ran away really fast, thus possibly to Canada b) since they still see themselves as the US government, they probably would be involved in some ass-backwards war of vengeance over blowing up the world.

Also, I think one of the characters in the Pitt mentioned the city of Ronto, which is probably Toronto.

[Ketchup]

(since a lot of soldiers deserted when they started shooting all the Canadians)

Any source for that? I know a lot of them did when they started using power armour for riot control, but I thought they couldn't care less about the Canadians, aside from when some radicals blow up a pipeline and set themselves up for an excuse invasion.

[Harmony Ltd.]

Correction Frost, the plan in Fo2 was to release a mutated strain of FEV into the jet stream, that would have as an effect to kill all mutated lifeform. In fact, it was the same strain that Eden gives you in Fo3, though the goal was to deliver it worldwide (or at least at the scale of North America) and not just in the DC area.

Which nicely illustrate how pathetically low the Enclave had fallen by the time of Fallout 3, by the way.


Anyway, I find this humorous : http://luna-afterdark.tumblr.com/post/63297208515

[Moodyman90]

That's right Frost. I always gloss over those facts but all that is correct.

I always though the Enclave from 3 was technically it's own separate thing. Still Enclave of course but they had always been out east and only had minimum to little contact to the West, Chicago aside.


I think stopped caring is a poor choice of words for what the Brotherhood did. In terms of serving American yeah I guess, but it seemed like the leadership that had them go underground and lead them to become the Brotherhood as we know it went "Whelp, the country is fucked, let's just survive."

[Scyto Harmony]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Enclave is the remnants of the US government and big business owners who, until Fallout 3, was mainly constrained to the West Coast same as the Brotherhood, who themselves is what's left of the US Military. The Enclave seem to be doing their own thing wherever they have an intact base at, but the Brotherhood are nearly all from the West Coast and eventually expanded from there.
The Brotherhood from 3 was from the West Coast but made it all the way East, and the same is true for the chapters featured in the Tactics games, which I'm probably wrong about as well is canon in that they exist but for the most part the games are glossed over and not really taken into the lore as a whole.

So, while you could have a Brotherhood like faction in Canada, unless it's stated a Brotherhood party went up there and found some more remnants of the US military that survived that long it wouldn't really be The Brotherhood of Steel.

That is, if I'm right on my facts and not talking out my ass.

All we know about Canada is Ronto, the Canadian People's Front, and the People's Front of Canada.

[cb5]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Enclave is the remnants of the US government and big business owners who, until Fallout 3, was mainly constrained to the West Coast same as the Brotherhood, who themselves is what's left of the US Military. The Enclave seem to be doing their own thing wherever they have an intact base at, but the Brotherhood are nearly all from the West Coast and eventually expanded from there.
The Brotherhood from 3 was from the West Coast but made it all the way East, and the same is true for the chapters featured in the Tactics games, which I'm probably wrong about as well is canon in that they exist but for the most part the games are glossed over and not really taken into the lore as a whole.

So, while you could have a Brotherhood like faction in Canada, unless it's stated a Brotherhood party went up there and found some more remnants of the US military that survived that long it wouldn't really be The Brotherhood of Steel.

That is, if I'm right on my facts and not talking out my ass.

Actually now that I think about it that is correct.  The brotherhood originated from a california vault.  The enclave never really got the memo that the war ended.  A military faction in alaska would make sense cause they would have been stranded like the chinese, but now that you mention it they would bear no resemblance to the brotherhood or enclave.  I would not be surprised if the original brotherhood members were the same ones responsible for the ncr given the similarities in their power armor.  What probably happened was that the enclave and brotherhood expanded east, but in the long run didn't have enough forces to maintain their power at such a long distance and were cut off.

My guess is that the brotherhood and enclave that we know of are those that never returned to the west coast and were stranded.  It would explain the massive difference in beliefs too.  The further away from the east coast the less and less of the original personal would have been left.  What I mean by that is chances are none of the brotherhood we know of came from the west cause chances are they all died in the long run.

The brotherhood in the mojave were probably stationed there early on when what would become the ncr was little.  Which is probably why they have such a different belief from east coast brotherhood, the west coast brotherhood most of those founders for the faction would have still been around to have kids.

Tl:dr; That's a good point, and that the reason for the difference in beliefs of west and east coast brotherhood and enclave is that probably the further east they went the more casualties they probably suffered and the original members' beliefs of what the enclave and brotherhood stood for died with them.

[RoboRed]

Anyway, I find this humorous : http://luna-afterdark.tumblr.com/post/63297208515

Oh, lol. 

[Katarn]

tytanbait:

EXTREME level of saucy tytanbait:

[Frost]

My guess is that the brotherhood and enclave that we know of are those that never returned to the west coast and were stranded.  It would explain the massive difference in beliefs too.  The further away from the east coast the less and less of the original personal would have been left.  What I mean by that is chances are none of the brotherhood we know of came from the west cause chances are they all died in the long run.

Lyons, the Elder of the D.C. Chapter, lead his men directly from the West Coast to the East and maintained contact with the West Coast chapters....somehow. Then decided to stop protecting technology and start helping all the little puppies and virgins in the D.C. wasteland because.....reasons. The folks back West cut off support for them at that point.

Also,

 the brotherhood and enclave that we know of are those that never returned to the west coast and were stranded

we know of the ones back West, too. There were two whole games based around them.

[cb5]

Lyons, the Elder of the D.C. Chapter, lead his men directly from the West Coast to the East and maintained contact with the West Coast chapters....somehow. Then decided to stop protecting technology and start helping all the little puppies and virgins in the D.C. wasteland because.....reasons. The folks back West cut off support for them at that point.

God damn son, give that man a medal.

[Moodyman90]

From what I remembered they decided to help the people in the D.C. area because Lyons realized that being a bunch of technology hoarding dicks would net them a lot of enemies and they'd be wiped out in the long run since there was the entire country between them and any reinforcement.

The fact he went from "collect and preserve tech" to "save everybody" caused the riff that caused the Outcast to form, since they saw that as going against the Brotherhoods purpose. That said, the Outcast are more in line with the West Coast chapter's ideals, even though Lyons got permission to alter the mission due to necessity. 

What's funny is that Veronica wanted the Mojave chapter to be more like Lyon's group despite her not really knowing about them, and if you go with a Pro-NCR ending and do everything just right you can more or less end the fighting between NCR and Brotherhood in the area and get them to help each other, including the Brotherhood protecting trade routes instead of raiding them for tech.


Edit: That's right, he was given permission to alter the mission, but they said they wouldn't help them after that. But the fact still remains reinforcements are weeks away due to the distance between the closest Brotherhood chapter in the west to D.C.

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