Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

[Harmony Ltd.]

...Um. Apparently thanks from me are worth a lot more than I thought?

I thought it was more about the figure of speech itself than its quantitative / qualitative aspect, but that's probably the most likely explanation.

[O. Hinds]

...Um. Apparently thanks from me are worth a lot more than I thought?

I thought it was more about the figure of speech itself than its quantitative / qualitative aspect, but that's probably the most likely explanation.

What figure of speech?

[Derpmind]

Sorry for the confusion. O. Hinds always says "Ah, thank you." when someone posts errors they've found. This is the first time he's said something different, so I tried some Laughter. And besides, finding all that stuff way back in chapter 2 is still super impressive.

[WavemasterRyx]

Ah, you must have missed the announcement: we changed that during the production of this chapter. So your memory isn't faulty, just out of date.

Spoiler:

Thanks, that does help! I was having the hardest
time finding that information. Bugs me when I'm trying to think about a
character but I don't have an accurate mental image. Its really weird,
fifty five chapters of this story has had plenty of more established and
developed characters die, but its this completely tertiary Enclave
pony's death that gets under my skin for some reason.

You're welcome. There's nothing wrong with developing attachment to minor characters, they need someone to care for them just as much as any major character.

[Harmony Ltd.]

...Um. Apparently thanks from me are worth a lot more than I thought?

I thought it was more about the figure of speech itself than its quantitative / qualitative aspect, but that's probably the most likely explanation.

What figure of speech?

English being a foreign language to me, I figured that "thank you very much" somehow was inadequate in some way or something, and that he was pointing out the editor doing that kind of mistake.

I may be reading too much into what people say.

[maxuglov169]

Just finished 55. Thank you Somber SO MUCH! Two months without Blackjack was unbearable!
But now the energy of life have returned into my veins!

Random thoughts:

Aaand the question:

And again - sorry for my grammar. I really should put a sign like "I'm not stupid, just bad with the language" in my status or something...

[O. Hinds]

Ah, you must have missed the announcement: we changed that during the production of this chapter. So your memory isn't faulty, just out of date.

Spoiler:

Well, I've good news and bad news. Bad news: You misread the old passage at least once (assume that we didn't do something wrong in the writing of it). Good news: Your memory still isn't faulty! :)

...Um. Apparently thanks from me are worth a lot more than I thought?

I thought it was more about the figure of speech itself than its quantitative / qualitative aspect, but that's probably the most likely explanation.

What figure of speech?

English being a foreign language to me, I figured that "thank you very much" somehow was inadequate in some way or something, and that he was pointing out the editor doing that kind of mistake.

I may be reading too much into what people say.

Ah, yes, I sometimes forget that you're not a native speaker. European polyglottism... I can maybe remember how to say "Do you speak English?" in Mandarin, and that's about it besides English for me.

[O. Hinds]

Aaand the question:

I'm sorry, but I don't understand the question. Would you please clarify?

[maxuglov169]

Aaand the question:

I'm sorry, but I don't understand the question. Would you please clarify?

I mean the Goldenblood rasping breath and scars, the decease, which makes him feel like hell. I remember that in first his appearance (in memory orb when he protests against war with zebras) he was okay, and then some accident occurs, and he become very ill. Don't know if I missed the explanation, my memory shoves me some suspicious details about Blueblood involvement in all this...

[O. Hinds]

Aaand the question:

I'm sorry, but I don't understand the question. Would you please clarify?

I mean the Goldenblood rasping breath and scars, the decease, which makes him feel like hell. I remember that in first his appearance (in memory orb when he protests against war with zebras) he was okay, and then some accident occurs, and he become very ill. Don't know if I missed the explanation, my memory shoves me some suspicious details about Blueblood involvement in all this...

Oh, no, that was Littlehorn. Sorry, but it's been explicitly said before in the story.

[Icy Shake]

I don't think we've seen the scene where it happened (please correct me if I'm wrong), but in one of Blackjack's early recording-visions there was this:

“Professor?” a mare asked softly from the door, and like a ghost materializing, a stricken black unicorn appeared. Her silver eyes were wide and shimmered with tears. A lone candle was on her flank. She sniffed and rubbed her nose.

He didn’t look up from his work. “I’m not… a teacher… anymore… Psalm,” he wheezed in that boiled-sounding voice. Slowly he turned to look at her, stiffly, as if every motion were agony. His eyes fixed on her standing there as she sniffed. “It’s not… your fault, Psalm.”

It was the wrong comment. “How can you say that? It was my fault! All of it!” she sobbed as she collapsed, hanging her head. “If I… if they… Oh Luna, I wish I’d died with the others!”

He slowly rose, hobbled towards where she lay in a heap, and, moving with great pain, gently hugged her. “It is… not… your fault…” he rasped, then coughed that horrid, wracking cough.

“I shouldn’t have done it. I… they did it because of me.”

He answered her in short, gasping broken lines that I threaded together. “You are not to blame, Psalm. Not for your kindness. What happened at Littlehorn was not your fault, nor will you wishing to assume responsibility make it better.” He patted her mane. “I wish I could help you understand that.” He held her in his hooves till her sobbing abated. “There... better?” She nodded and wiped her nose.

(Should that "were" be "was"?) Never mind.

And later in the chapter we saw some of the lead up to it, with Psalm leading the refugees to the Academy in what I believe was the first of the Psalm dreams—the one with P-21, Glory, and Rampage in it.

[Overthepacific]

I mean the Goldenblood rasping breath and scars, the decease, which makes him feel like hell. I remember that in first his appearance (in memory orb when he protests against war with zebras) he was okay, and then some accident occurs, and he become very ill. Don't know if I missed the explanation, my memory shoves me some suspicious details about Blueblood involvement in all this...

I might not be the best source. But I'm pretty sure he was poisoned by zebras and almost died. He had a scene where he told Princess Luna how the government should be run and him setting everything up for her with his ideas. I think he was so bad then that he thought he would die, so he told Luna all that, then begged her to just surrender instead, then she walked out.

He managed to live through it, then started the OIA within the system he had told to Luna(I think the ministry system is what he suggested, idk). His organs were slowly being liquefied or something (I dont remember exactly what the poison did), but thats where he got all of his scars and rasp.

As far as I recall, thats what happened. You can go back and look for it, but I have no idea of the chapter it happened in.

[Overthepacific]

Oh, no, that was Littlehorn. Sorry, but it's been explicitly said before in the story.

Oh, yeah. It was the pink haze the zebras used at Littlehorn then. That was what the poison was.

[SilentCarto]

Continuing where I left off...

Ch. 55 Comments, part 2:

Editing, part 2:

Random thought of the day: If PH ever does a beach episode, it should be called, "Once More Unto the Beach, Dear Friends".

[Ketchup]

Onery radgator? Tank.

Ornery.

I spotted this one my first go-through, 'onery' is still correct as an alternative spelling.

[SilentCarto]

I spotted this one my first go-through, 'onery' is still correct as an alternative spelling.

I'm from Texas, don't you try and tell me how to spell ornery! Why, I'll get downright... oh... what's the word?

[SilentCarto]

Did Blackjack get replaced with a changeling (if they even exist), or is Twilight really having a strong effect on her? This is possibly the most reasonable thing she's ever done, and she's done it with tact, too. I wonder if, maybe, the statuettes affect ponies associated with the corresponding Bearer (here as a descendent) (or Element? not especially likely, I'd guess, but possible) more strongly?

I'd prefer to think that she's simply learned her lesson from a couple of hard failures. Getting beat up doesn't affect her nearly so strongly as being responsible for others getting hurt.

Well, I had suspected what that might be in the preceding paragraphs, but . . . well. This throws a whole new light on things. I didn't expect Goldenblood to actually be working for the Eater, but perhaps I should have.

"Working for" might be a little strong. Influenced, maybe. Just incidentally nudged in the direction of darkness and despair.

It's hard not to appreciate Horse for so perfectly being just what he is.

Hehe. Yeah, I'll be pretty surprised if what you see isn't precisely what you get.

She's already the unpopular outsider who's a target for assassination, and now she has the curse of being a political ruler whose decisions will be scrutinized and viciously opposed by those grasping the short end of the stick.

Meh, just puke glass on a few key opponents and they'll shut up nicely.

I think it's weird Awesome took king as his title, considering he claims to be the heir of the throne of the Crystal Empire, which was ruled by a Princess, and Equestria, which was likewise ruled by Princesses.

Well, Unicornia was ruled by a king before they had a princess. I'm pretty sure the whole "princess" thing was because Tia and Luna refused to accept the title of "queen".

Damn, you know what I just remembered? That dragon flame can also transport the burnee, as seen with Littlepip, so perhaps Goldenblood wasn't executed (not to mention it's an interesting way of killing someone, when there are easier ways, though I suppose it was suppost to be a public 'show' execution), but transported him to one of the princesses though changing the destination would probably be a piece of cake for Goldenblood, depending on how dragonfire works. Though it could entirely be possible that Luna was in on at least some of his schemes, as shown with 'Eclipse' in the scene with Horse and the Crusader mainframe 1.2

Yeah, I thought about that too. But really, we only have a photo of "someone" being burned. It might be another prisoner, a robot, a duplicate of some sort, or, as you say, dragonfire transportation. One way or the other, I'm highly dubious that this is an actual photo of Goldie's actual death.

It is entirely possible that he could be making shit up here

That would be some bizarre and oddly specific shit to make up.

My [boss's sister] . . .

And reading later on, it seemed possible that Goldenblood and Eclipse went into a room that Luna was already in, and Eclipse never said anything, even after Celestia left, despite being told by Goldenblood that Luna wanted her there.

So, possible, but unlikely.

Well, there was also a distinct voice change when Psalm arrived:

[The guard] stopped at a pair of double doors and poked his head in. “Psalm to see Miss Eclipse. Also, she’s here.”
There was a pause as a mare muttered under her breath and then said, “One second. Almost… there…” And then abruptly the voice changed and became deeper. “Send Miss Psalm in.”

She's not even hiding it that well, for those who are looking for subterfuge.

This probably wouldn't satisfy, but...
Magic. Luna may be able to do it with magic.

Well, you're positing that either Luna has some power to project an interactive illusion at extreme range, or that she's exploiting the shapeshifting powers that we already know she has from the very first episode (and retained after her purification, per Nightmare Night.) I choose option B.

I think King Awesome either forgot to add in a couple of 'greats' there, or was simply making shit up, remember, we haven't even heard of Shining Armor yet, though I guess he was off ruiling the Crystal Empire with Cadence

The Crystal Empire already vanished for a thousand years and reappeared with the same individuals who had suffered through Sombra's enslavement. It's not unthinkable that Cadence, her child, or her grandchild phased the city out for a century in hopes of finding a recovered Equestria on the other side.

Well, I've good news and bad news. Bad news: You misread the old passage at least once (assume that we didn't do something wrong in the writing of it). Good news: Your memory still isn't faulty! :)

I normally answer questions like this rather than ask them, but my Windows Search has been misbehaving since I got my new computer. What chapter was that in?

[Icy Shake]

Did Blackjack get replaced with a changeling (if they even exist), or is Twilight really having a strong effect on her? This is possibly the most reasonable thing she's ever done, and she's done it with tact, too. I wonder if, maybe, the statuettes affect ponies associated with the corresponding Bearer (here as a descendent) (or Element? not especially likely, I'd guess, but possible) more strongly?

I'd prefer to think that she's simply learned her lesson from a couple of hard failures. Getting beat up doesn't affect her nearly so strongly as being responsible for others getting hurt.

Yeah, I know. I just like the "Blackjack are dumb and don't learn good" meme as long as she holds on to it. I'm a little serious about the tactfulness, though. Neither soft diplomacy nor empathy has ever been an especially strong suit for her, but again, life experiences have been building along those lines, especially more recently.

Well, I had suspected what that might be in the preceding paragraphs, but . . . well. This throws a whole new light on things. I didn't expect Goldenblood to actually be working for the Eater, but perhaps I should have.

"Working for" might be a little strong. Influenced, maybe. Just incidentally nudged in the direction of darkness and despair.

True enough: I normally don't think too hard on—much less make extensive edits to—the running comments. "Working for" was meant as an unconscious thing, not intentional: I think that it's clear that by all indications, he holds Luna über alles.

It's hard not to appreciate Horse for so perfectly being just what he is.

Hehe. Yeah, I'll be pretty surprised if what you see isn't precisely what you get.

Duuuuude!:

My [boss's sister] . . .

And reading later on, it seemed possible that Goldenblood and Eclipse went into a room that Luna was already in, and Eclipse never said anything, even after Celestia left, despite being told by Goldenblood that Luna wanted her there.

So, possible, but unlikely.

Well, there was also a distinct voice change when Psalm arrived:

[The guard] stopped at a pair of double doors and poked his head in. “Psalm to see Miss Eclipse. Also, she’s here.”
There was a pause as a mare muttered under her breath and then said, “One second. Almost… there…” And then abruptly the voice changed and became deeper. “Send Miss Psalm in.”

She's not even hiding it that well, for those who are looking for subterfuge.

No disagreement here: I'll admit, I think I skipped over that paragraph when last looking, and was beyond that trying to make the most permissive possible read.

[Ketchup]

Mmk, so I poured over both scenes with Goldenblood, Psalm and Eclipse. Since, from what I see, nobody else has said it yet, I've set my theory that Goldenblood knows that Eclipse is Luna, and the shapeshifting is to conceal her from everyone else, including Psalm. Goldenblood could have said that Luna had summoned Eclipse to deceive Psalm. So no projections.
Then, this:

“Espionage on her own subjects. What would her majesty think?”

Goldenblood knows. The extent of her involvement, and what she knew of the projects at the time, are still up in the air, due to her whole two appearances.

Who's going to swoop in and say they said this already? I have a feeling someone will say that, or that it was obvious and that it didn't need to be said.
Hum. It's late, I need to go to bed.

[StoneSlinger88]

Mind.. Theorizing...

The Mainframe 1.2 scanned what could be Luna's brain, which just about fried the machine. Now, I'm going to make some assumptions here that you lot put in my head.

Assuming the Mainframe 1.2 is Cognitum, Eclipse is Luna, and the storage on Mainframe 1.2 is still functioning (it was based on Applebloom's tech, maybe that was lucky enough to share the durability), would it be possible for a portion of Luna's mind to still be functioning somewhere in Cognitum? Lost among however many other minds Horse scanned into the thing, struggling for control, or perhaps reverting to a Nightmare Moon mentality?

[StoneSlinger88]

Mind.. Theorizing...

The Mainframe 1.2 scanned what could be Luna's brain, which just about fried the machine. Now, I'm going to make some assumptions here that you lot put in my head. Spoilered, just in case.

Spoiler:

[thatguyvex]

You're welcome. There's nothing wrong with developing attachment to
minor characters, they need someone to care for them just as much as any
major character.

Yeah, minor characters don't get enough love for all the hard work they do greasing the wheels for the main cast.

I think the reason Sunset's death in particular got stuck in my mind is the way its presented. There's little to no emotional reaction from anyone involved. This strikes me as really dissonant with the rest of the chapter, given that Blackjack has serious emotional issues with killing Clink, and in the second revision of the chapter she even begged the Legate to not beat Lancer to death. She has fairly intense internal debates with herself over the justifications for killing and keeps leaning towards a more merciful mindset. Yet this conflict utterly vanishes in the instance of Sunset attempting to kidnap Glory. Now in Blackjack's case I can accept and buy that, with a friend's safety at stake she's capable of putting her moral quandaries aside; what bothers me is that there's no shown mental process of this happening. No brief mental debate of whether she should try to disable Sunset, or talk her down. Furthermore, there's no regret or remorse in having to watch Sunset get literally and brutally torn apart by Hellhounds, an arguably far worse death than Clink merely getting shot in the head, which is quick in painless in comparison. Yet she grieves and aggravates over Clink dying, but shows no emotional response to another, arguably far better pony than a rapist, getting torn limb from limb in front of her. But even then, at least Blackjack I can kind of sort of understand because she's still neck deep in crazy, even though she's trying to get better about it.

What I don't get is Twister and Boomer. From what little of the interactions I read of the three it was pretty clear Twister, Boomer, and Sunset had known each other a long time, at least since basic training, and had served together for possibly years. They seemed far more friends than just comrades at arms (a relationship that some might argue is stronger than friendship). Yet all we get in that scene is a token attempt by Twister to talk Sunset down. Then she and Boomer both just sort of stand by and watch Sunset get killed. Disagreements over the pursuit of their assignment aside it just doesn't make sense to me that someone would be cool with watching a long time comrade and friend get torn to pieces without so much as making an attempt to save them. Really all it would have taken is a bit of cover fire from Boomer or Twister, who are airborne and well out of danger themselves from the Hellhounds, to distract the creatures long enough for Sunset to get clear. One press of a trigger would be all it would have taken for either of them to save their comrade, the pony they served together with for who knows how long... but no, they just watch. Heck, neither of them so much as comment or lament that it happened, they just sort of leave. Don't even scoop up the remains or a set of dogtags to take back home to whatever family Sunset had.

The entire scene, and its general lack of emotion, just rubs me very wrong.

Uh... that said though its just one scene, out of a one million plus word story that I've very much enjoyed. 1% of something that bothers me hardly negates the other 99% of stuff I think is awesome. So, yeah, just felt like I had to get that all off my chest.

[Mister Nikel]

Just got around to reading 55. Like usual I enjoyed it a a lot. The levels of unnecessary drama were acceptable and we had the best cliffhanger since that time Glory died.
9/10 would read again. Long live Queen Whiskey.

[Harmony Ltd.]

Ch. 55 Comments, part 2:

Ah, good catch, didn't click at that one !

So, that ghoul is...

Spoiler:

[SilentCarto]

Assuming the Mainframe 1.2 is Cognitum, Eclipse is Luna, and the storage on Mainframe 1.2 is still functioning (it was based on Applebloom's tech, maybe that was lucky enough to share the durability), would it be possible for a portion of Luna's mind to still be functioning somewhere in Cognitum? Lost among however many other minds Horse scanned into the thing, struggling for control, or perhaps reverting to a Nightmare Moon mentality?

Possible? Absolutely. FOE certainly left the impression that a copied mind lacking a soul would be something less than (pardon the expression) human. If Cog thinks, in her twisted way, that she's doing what's best for her subjects, it would certainly help explain her behavior.

I'm definitely pulling for the "No Gods, No Masters" ending.

Ah, good catch, didn't click at that one !
So, that ghoul is...

Spoiler:

Eeeeyup. I'm a bit surprised that he allowed the group to fall into the state of barbarism that Awesome found them in, but given his vanity, maybe he left when ghoulification set in and helped to found Meatlocker instead, returning only after Awesome built something worthy. (I'm pretty sure he was the 'dapper buck with a snowy mane' in the Ch. 33 memory orb.)

[O. Hinds]

Continuing where I left off...

Ch. 55 Comments, part 2:

Editing, part 2:

Random thought of the day: If PH ever does a beach episode, it should be called, "Once More Unto the Beach, Dear Friends".

Ah, thank you.

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

[quote="SilentCarto"]Random thought of the day: If PH ever does a beach episode, it should be called, "Once More Unto the Beach, Dear Friends".[/spoiler]
Hah!

I normally answer questions like this rather than ask them, but my Windows Search has been misbehaving since I got my new computer. What chapter was that in?

I believe that I mentioned this in my post on the subject, but Chapter 39.

Ch. 55 Comments, part 2:

Ah, good catch, didn't click at that one !

So, that ghoul is...

Spoiler:

Hah! I didn't think of that!

[Harmony Ltd.]

Re Beach Episode :

You know, given it's Fallout Equestria and with Somber writing it, it would probably be something like "On the Beach". With more explosions.

[O. Hinds]

Re Beach Episode :

You know, given it's Fallout Equestria and with Somber writing it, it would probably be something like "On the Beach". With more explosions.

Hm, that sounds vaguely familiar...
[checks link]
Hey, it's by Nevil Shute Norway, of R100 fame! (A far superior, in my opinion, ship to the cursed R101.)

[Harmony Ltd.]

The 90's made-for-tv movies (the whole thing being four or five hours long) wasn't bad. At least I like it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wv_OJBBaF48

[thatguyvex]

Random Question:

Spoiler:

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